What happened with Takemura?

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1. I've been to Osaka before, but I think the main reason they put Japaneses elements in 2077 is because the history of cyberpunk, all those movies, comics and games...
2. That's "Bushido", a traditional Japanese culture invented by Tokugawa Shogunate hundred yrs ago, which means a samurai should be loyal to his superior and that's the main idea of Takemura, Saburo saved his life from poor, he will sacrifice his life in return, right or wrong is one thing, but loyalty is always above all, and that's why people feel for Takemura, a loyal, hard working but stubborn friend...
3. This also happend to Oda too, he agreed to hear from Takemura, he agreed to let you leave the city, but he will never allow you to approach Hanako, even that's the right thing to do...
4. If Takemura leaves Arasaka, he will lose not only his faith but also the charisma of this character.
5. I understand why CDPR wrote him like this, it serves the purpose will, to make him not just a soldier lost his army, but a foreigner lost his country, to be honest, how many players won't help this man willingly?
1. That's what I was saying.
2. Yes but this is different for the fact that Saburo cheated death. Samurai did leave their masters to become Ronin on the occasion that they are horrible human beings by their standards... They just have to deal with the lifelong shame and bottom caste status.
3. Hanako did not cheat death. Her doing her father's wishes is not the same as cheating death herself. But Oda is different from Goro, Goro has said he often thinks about being a Nomad anyway.
4. Uh no? He could become a Ronin and be free, it would be interesting to help him do mercenary jobs which is what Ronin do. Might be a big weight lifted off his shoulders. He says in the illeged seppuku end (which may not even be seppuku) "I am not a samurai". That segment could just be about him killing yorinobu and then leaving Arasaka, not a message to V. We don't know.
Him being more interesting as still being Arasaka is opinion and depends on storytelling. They could even do two storylines like a light path and a dark path depending on if he leaves Arasaka.
5. I understand possibilities of why they wrote him like that but there is there is no resolution to rescue and extra dialogue with him, so know one knows for sure why they did it. The lack of resolution to the path of bonding that you can choose is what made me angry, not that there is a specific outcome that (if fit well with it) would bother me.
 
because he knew tak was loyal to his father you saw their interaction after he told him it was poison and when tak called and said he had his fathers killer in his custody he saw an opportunity to kill them both and wrap everything up nice and neat.

So why not ask Takemura to take "the thief" to a secure location and have Adam smash (heh) that place, killing everyone?
And why not send someone else when the first option failed?
 
I was really confused about that, like what exactly happened with Takemura after our unsuccessful infiltration of Konpeki Plaza? He mentioned to us after that he is now on the run and his implants are deactivated but how and why did that happen? Like, when he confront us on a dump, he still contacts Yorinobu about us, saying he found the killer of his father. So that means he is still working for Yorinobu but later for some reason decided to turn against him? And why didn't Yorinobu just kill Takemura instead of sending him off with deactivated implants (if that's what happened) if he didn't trust him?

I don't know if anyone already said this or something like it but I didn't have the feelz to read all the other comments lol....

Yorinobu sends Takemura to find you. Once Takemura finds you at the dump and tells Yorinobu, Yorinobu then publicly, so to speak, delcares that Takemura murdered his father. Why frame Takemura instead of V you ask? Cause Arasaka's Top Dog getting killed by a nobody would make Arasaka look extremely weak. PR nightmare. Yorinobu then sends people to kill you both cause you both know the truth.

I think Takemura removed his own implants because they where Arasaka tech or still has them but turned them off.
 
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In the Corpo start, they turn off your implants, so that's part of the termination process.

Takemura was Suburo's dog, loyal and dedicated to his master. Takemura had also bought into the whole "loyalty and honor" Samurai cosplay thing.Once he knew without a doubt that Yorinobu had killed Suburo, he would have avenged his master. Yorinobu could never trust Takemura, especially not once Takemura knew for sure what had happened. Yorinobu already had his own "dog", Smasher, so Takemura was a loose end that needed to be snipped one way or another.
 
I don't know if anyone already said this or something like it but I didn't have the feelz to read all the other comments lol....

Yorinobu sends Takemura to find you. Once Takemura finds you at the dump and tells Yorinobu, Yorinobu then publicly, so to speak, delcares that Takemura murdered his father. Why frame Takemura and V you ask? Cause Arasaka's Top Dog getting killed by a nobody would make Arasaka look extremely weak. PR nightmare. Yorinobu then sends people to kill you both cause you both know the truth.

I think Takemura removed his own implants because they where Arasaka tech or still has them but turn them off.

i agree with you.

takemura was one of the most exceptional guard dogs in the cyberpunk universe. far greater then oda and adam smasher. so much so that he was confident in his skills against oda in his prime even without ANY of his own cyberwares turned on. since takemura was the personal bodyguard of saboro "the emperor", one of the top 10 most powerful man in the cyberpunk world, he must have world class, state of the art military cyberware as well as decades of cutting edge training to go with it. we are talking about someone who can eat a whole squad of max-tac for breakfast w/o even blinking an eye. using takemura to track down V is the most efficient way for yorinobu to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

on 1 hand, takemura is maybe the most effective tracker yorinobu has at his disposal to tracking down any loose ends in his fathers murder. on the other hand, takemura himself IS also a loose end since his loyalty will always be with saboro if push comes to shove. yurinobu knew about the relic program as well as the backed up engram saboro made of himself (just like hanako knew) so takemura will always be a threat to yorinobu. by using takemura to track down V, he can have both loose ends eliminated at the same time.

it likely that after takemura reported that he has located the final loose end to yorinobu, yorinobu had all of his cyberware remotely turned off to create an opening for the elite saka ninjas that he deployed to tie up the loose ends. unfortunately, the elite saka ninjas that he sent is likely personally trained by takemura and even without his cyberware, he was able to best them in combat.

unfortunately they didn't really make all this clear enough in the fight sequence and we are left to play sherlock homes.
 
unfortunately they didn't really make all this clear enough in the fight sequence and we are left to play sherlock homes.
Yeah, basic "show, don't tell" policy could work here lol.

But actually some of replies here does make sense. Though I still don't understand how come Yorinobu knows about who exactly stole biochip from him when he send off Takemura for us if he wanted to kill "2 birds with 1 stone".
 
Though I still don't understand how come Yorinobu knows about who exactly stole biochip from him when he send off Takemura for us if he wanted to kill "2 birds with 1 stone".

Yorinobu doesn't know at that time that you have to bio-chip. It is quite possible he never knows that V has it until close to the end. Remember, after Yorinobu kills his father and initiates the lockdown in the hotel he never tries to retrieve or even check on the relic before going to the elevator and then leaving the building. You wake up in the dump the next day and from that point on no one from Arasaka ever comes after V to try and get the relic. I mean you spent several weeks stuck in a bed in Viktor's clinic so its pretty clear that Yorinobu doesn't care about the relic anymore now that his father is dead and he cares even less about V.
 
So why not ask Takemura to take "the thief" to a secure location and have Adam smash (heh) that place, killing everyone?
And why not send someone else when the first option failed?

maybe he thought a squad of cyborg assassins would get the job done
 
Yeah, basic "show, don't tell" policy could work here lol.

But actually some of replies here does make sense. Though I still don't understand how come Yorinobu knows about who exactly stole biochip from him when he send off Takemura for us if he wanted to kill "2 birds with 1 stone".
Because we were the only suspicious people to enter the hotel. We entered posing as arms dealers carrying the flathead right through security.
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So why not ask Takemura to take "the thief" to a secure location and have Adam smash (heh) that place, killing everyone?
And why not send someone else when the first option failed?

To keep Hanako from being sus of Smasher and Yorinobu.
 
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1. That's what I was saying.
2. Yes but this is different for the fact that Saburo cheated death. Samurai did leave their masters to become Ronin on the occasion that they are horrible human beings by their standards... They just have to deal with the lifelong shame and bottom caste status.
3. Hanako did not cheat death. Her doing her father's wishes is not the same as cheating death herself. But Oda is different from Goro, Goro has said he often thinks about being a Nomad anyway.
4. Uh no? He could become a Ronin and be free, it would be interesting to help him do mercenary jobs which is what Ronin do. Might be a big weight lifted off his shoulders. He says in the illeged seppuku end (which may not even be seppuku) "I am not a samurai". That segment could just be about him killing yorinobu and then leaving Arasaka, not a message to V. We don't know.
Him being more interesting as still being Arasaka is opinion and depends on storytelling. They could even do two storylines like a light path and a dark path depending on if he leaves Arasaka.
5. I understand possibilities of why they wrote him like that but there is there is no resolution to rescue and extra dialogue with him, so know one knows for sure why they did it. The lack of resolution to the path of bonding that you can choose is what made me angry, not that there is a specific outcome that (if fit well with it) would bother me.

1. Saburo used new tech to preserved his mind, it's not cheating death, if it's cheating, then Johnny has cheating arm, V has cheating eyes?
2. Ronin situation is kind of a shame for samurai, it's for free or for pleasant, especially Saburo hasn't done anything bad to the company, you could tell from the reaction of board of directors when they saw Saburo at later of the game...
3. Hanako plays her role at the company and family, so does Takemura, Oda, it's a team game for Japanese company, not the concept trying to be a hero...
4. He has no reason to be a ronin in the game, Arasaka has great power, Saburo has great power, if Saburo did die at the end, he should cut his belly after revenge...
5. That's the key, great story telling suppose to make people to laugh, sad, angry, to make the characters be unforgotten...
 
1. Saburo used new tech to preserved his mind, it's not cheating death, if it's cheating, then Johnny has cheating arm, V has cheating eyes?
2. Ronin situation is kind of a shame for samurai, it's for free or for pleasant, especially Saburo hasn't done anything bad to the company, you could tell from the reaction of board of directors when they saw Saburo at later of the game...
3. Hanako plays her role at the company and family, so does Takemura, Oda, it's a team game for Japanese company, not the concept trying to be a hero...
4. He has no reason to be a ronin in the game, Arasaka has great power, Saburo has great power, if Saburo did die at the end, he should cut his belly after revenge...
5. That's the key, great story telling suppose to make people to laugh, sad, angry, to make the characters be unforgotten...

1. It's literally cheating death. Comparing a copy of a soul to prosthetics is kinda dumb.
2. He kinda already is a Ronin. After letting Saburo die. He's not a samurai and never was. He said this. People who aren't samurais follow bushido too.
3. What's the point in this statement
4. He's not a samurai. Why do you keep saying he is
5. Uh not if the story is written bad. It seems you don't even understand the character since you think he's a samurai when he explicitly says he is not.
 
Yeah, basic "show, don't tell" policy could work here lol.

But actually some of replies here does make sense. Though I still don't understand how come Yorinobu knows about who exactly stole biochip from him when he send off Takemura for us if he wanted to kill "2 birds with 1 stone".

yorinobu did not need to know we were the one's that stole the chip. the fact that we left behind the bot on the netrunner in the plaza tells him there is at least a loose end. after which he surely would have checked the freezer in his room and figured out that the relic is missing. he can easily go through the security footage and see that we were the one's who entered the plaza with the bot, and i'm sure he's confident that takemura would be able to sniff out all the loose end from that point forth since
1. he's about the most effective asset for this type of mission in the whole of arasaka empire
2. his honor demands that he find the people involved in his masters death
3. keeping him around is a major threat to yurinobu himself so he wants him out in the field instead of being in the same building as saboro's engram.
 
he can easily go through the security footage and see that we were the one's who entered the plaza with the bot, and i'm sure he's confident that takemura would be able to sniff out all the loose end from that point forth since
Actually V's eyes mess with security cams, but not regular eyes, maybe, unlikely, all the staff in Konpeki Plaza all use brain dance recording cyberwear? Takemura may have had Delamain hacked to figure who paid for the taxi, or followed the taxi with city surveillance cameras to its location. Both of those would lead him to Dex.
All the other stuff is correct, basically by finding V, Takemura threatened Yorinobu's plot. If they had used soulkiller on V, Yorinobu would have been exposed.
 
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Actually V's eyes mess with security cams, but not regular eyes, maybe, unlikely,

ALL of the entire "kenpachi" :p (plaza except for yurinobu's suite) is under 24/7 surveillance. this was made clear during the conversation between T-bug and the rest of the team. they see you come into the plaza, follow you up to your room, and see what you do INSIDE the room as well. kiroshi face blurring tech doesn't do anything except the face. rest of the body is still exposed as per conversation with vic

like i said, yorinobu doesnt care WHO was the loose end. i'm sure he had confidence in takemura's ability to sniff out whoever is behind the heist. afterall, takemura probably has the highest level training in everything related to security/bodyguard/detective work in the entire arasaka empire. not to mention the fact that he might have better cyberware then even yurinobu himself to perform those type of tasks
 
ALL of the entire "kenpachi" :p (plaza except for yurinobu's suite) is under 24/7 surveillance. this was made clear during the conversation between T-bug and the rest of the team. they see you come into the plaza, follow you up to your room, and see what you do INSIDE the room as well. kiroshi face blurring tech doesn't do anything except the face. rest of the body is still exposed as per conversation with vic

like i said, yorinobu doesnt care WHO was the loose end. i'm sure he had confidence in takemura's ability to sniff out whoever is behind the heist. afterall, takemura probably has the highest level training in everything related to security/bodyguard/detective work in the entire arasaka empire. not to mention the fact that he might have better cyberware then even yurinobu himself to perform those type of tasks
Like I said by finding V, Takemura threatened to expose Yorinobu's plot. Once Yorinobu learned of V he sent a kill squad to eliminate Takemura and V, and shut down Takemura's cyberwear. Lucky for Takemura none of his cyberwear was required to keep him alive, as you can find a fired corpo in game who died from cyberwear shutdown. It is still more likely Takemura went the taxi route as he found Dex first.
 
1. It's literally cheating death. Comparing a copy of a soul to prosthetics is kinda dumb.
2. He kinda already is a Ronin. After letting Saburo die. He's not a samurai and never was. He said this. People who aren't samurais follow bushido too.
3. What's the point in this statement
4. He's not a samurai. Why do you keep saying he is
5. Uh not if the story is written bad. It seems you don't even understand the character since you think he's a samurai when he explicitly says he is not.

1. So Johnny has cheating arm? V has cheating eyes? I wouldn't go that far, besides there are so many people already using that technology provided by Arasaka...
2. If the superior of a samurai dies, he will still remain the position in his own clan, unless he does something wrong and got banished...
3. Japanese culture is team first, individual second, that's the point, can't judge him by using western standard...
4. He tries to be a samurai and that's his idea, just like Arasaka is a company, but Hanako still talks like it's her family...
5. Samurai requires a higher standard, keep moving towards to the goal is his whole idea, trying to learn some history and culture of Japan will make you understand the character more....
 
1. So Johnny has cheating arm? V has cheating eyes? I wouldn't go that far, besides there are so many people already using that technology provided by Arasaka...
2. If the superior of a samurai dies, he will still remain the position in his own clan, unless he does something wrong and got banished...
3. Japanese culture is team first, individual second, that's the point, can't judge him by using western standard...
4. He tries to be a samurai and that's his idea, just like Arasaka is a company, but Hanako still talks like it's her family...
5. Samurai requires a higher standard, keep moving towards to the goal is his whole idea, trying to learn some history and culture of Japan will make you understand the character more....
A prosthetic arm is not a soul and Takemura is not a samurai.
 
A prosthetic arm is not a soul and Takemura is not a samurai.

per alt cunningham AI, soulkiller does exactly what it advertised. it does KILL the soul while maintaining sufficient data to simulate a consciousness depending on what state the mind is in prior to application. we can see that dead brain can only record memory data like what jacky ended up being in one of the endings, or it can be a fairly well simulated mind such as what we see in johnny, V, or saburo. however just like alt said, she is NOT alt cunningham but an AI that has taken in the construct of alt cunningham. similar can be said about all other engram/constructs in mikoshi.

as for takemura, i dont know if anyone in modern Japan (not to mention 2077) can be considered a "true" samurai since the hereditary noble title of "samurai" was abolished in the 1870's. in this case, we can think of a samurai as a state of mind, or more specifically those who follow the bushido code. i think what takemura meant when he said he was not a samurai stem from the fact that the "noble title" of samurai no longer exist, but that does not mean he cant be a samurai at heart. this is the confidence he had when meeting with oda, knowing full well oda too, follows the bushido code. at least this is how i interpreted what was presented in game in regards to takemura
 
per alt cunningham AI, soulkiller does exactly what it advertised. it does KILL the soul while maintaining sufficient data to simulate a consciousness depending on what state the mind is in prior to application. we can see that dead brain can only record memory data like what jacky ended up being in one of the endings, or it can be a fairly well simulated mind such as what we see in johnny, V, or saburo. however just like alt said, she is NOT alt cunningham but an AI that has taken in the construct of alt cunningham. similar can be said about all other engram/constructs in mikoshi.

as for takemura, i dont know if anyone in modern Japan (not to mention 2077) can be considered a "true" samurai since the hereditary noble title of "samurai" was abolished in the 1870's. in this case, we can think of a samurai as a state of mind, or more specifically those who follow the bushido code. i think what takemura meant when he said he was not a samurai stem from the fact that the "noble title" of samurai no longer exist, but that does not mean he cant be a samurai at heart. this is the confidence he had when meeting with oda, knowing full well oda too, follows the bushido code. at least this is how i interpreted what was presented in game in regards to takemura
Yes but it looks like Saburo's engram is not just an AI. It seems like it is actually him. So I don't know what they discovered since Alt was soul killed but I seems like Saburo did not lose his soul.
 
Yes but it looks like Saburo's engram is not just an AI. It seems like it is actually him. So I don't know what they discovered since Alt was soul killed but I seems like Saburo did not lose his soul.

possible, but not necessarily true.

johnny still "seem" to have his soul and he was soul killed not long after cunningham. it may be that the computing power increase in the last 50 years has made the simulation much more realistic and does not require the horsepower of a human brain to run that level of simulation.

in the end, we come to a philosophical discussion as to what IS the soul. can a highly sophistic AI such as alphaGo emulate a human brain? what about a human soul? if not today, what about another 56 years of deep learning? will google 2077 have an AI complex enough to emulate the human soul? will they change the name to skynet at some point when elon musk finish his starlink? :D you building that off grid bunker yet? :D
 
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