What I learned at 4000+ MMR

+
What I learned at 4000+ MMR

So, I had set ranked play aside for a while, not bothering with it after the latest patch update and assuming that at Rank 16, I was content with my ranked play experience for the season. At that point I was seeing a lot of diversity in decks, and I knew for certain that I had probably maximized my enjoyment in that venue, because there would be nothing but meta and netdecks above me.

But, in the last 7 days I decided to move back over there from casual play, because the netdecks and metas had invaded casual just the same way I had anticipated they would in Ranks 17-20. I couldn't have been more wrong, I don't think. Here are some observations about my experience upon reaching Rank 20.

1. Monsters aren't as prevalent as people would have you believe. Are there Monster decks? Yes. Are they pretty much standard construction? Yes. Are they successful? Meh. I would tell you that Monsters are appearing about 33% of the time for me at 4000k+ MMR. Bran discard decks are at about 40%, which I found surprising. Very few of those are Queensguard. A smattering of Radovid/Baron (less than I would have thought) and Dorf decks are out there, but the big two are still Monsters and Bran. The last Reveal Decks died at Rank 19.

2. The 40 card decks have disappeared. And I couldn't be happier about it. In and around Rank 16-17, I was bombarded with people playing all sorts of crap with 35-40 cards, and I have no idea why or how they got there. But they're long gone above Rank 17, and I prefer the predictability. In a meta where all 4 golds need to come out, and in some cases 5 for Discard Skellige, the 35-40 card decks just can't win.

3. Deck disruption is a thing. I don't know if it's good or bad for the game. My deck causes me to be biased about the matter, so I won't speculate. But cards like Regis: HV, and to a lesser extent Avallach, really seem to frustrate people. There's very few NG decks at this point, but Treason/Sweers seem to play the same way when encountered.

4. Rank play might slow down after the patch. The fall of Caeleno Harpy is going to really cause people to re-evaluate the meta, and while there will be people who build decks based on what streamers do and say, I think you will see an uptick in the Rank 19-20 guys who are moving to casual to protect themselves, at least for a week. If you are playing non-monsters, and Bran escapes any kind of nerfing, you might be able to take advantage of the lack of Monsters/Weather for a few days.

5. Triss Butterfly is mysteriously absent in top tier decks. For a while, she was in every swarm deck I saw. But once I hit Rank 18, she quietly exited. It could be that Monster players just aren't drawing her against me, but I'm finding a lot of Caretaker/Spirit/Coranthir/Imerlith as opposed to Triss.

6. I still run into players who want to play out every card in their hand after you're out. Why does this still happen? You're Rank 19, Level 50, and you're still looking for overkill? Just stop people. Like, I realize that if you are above Level 50, you're probably spending too much time playing the Open Beta anyway, but even your time has to be more valuable than wasting it playing out cards when you've already won.

7. The leaderboard is messed up. Or I did something wrong. Or both. As an XBox player, I can only see my position among XBox players, and not cross platform. In some ways it's cool, seeing your name and going, "I'm 38th in the world". But I know I'm not, because I can't see the rankings for PC or PS4 players. I've checked my settings and have no idea if there is a way to change it.


I don't know if I'll reach Rank 21 or not. I'd like to, naturally, but that last couple hundred MMR seems a world away. CDPR has done a good job of not penalizing high rank players in OB (far less than CB) but I've been back and forth around 4250 now for a day or two, even with a 60% win rate.

I know a lot of people have posted frustrations with the diversity/mood/tempo of the game, and while I understand that the current repetition is stagnating some people's enjoyment, I'm still finding the game enjoyable at this point, though like many others, I'm more excited for Campaign play than anything else, including new cards, at this point.
 
Last edited:

4RM3D

Ex-moderator
frbfree;n9276911 said:
5. Triss Butterfly is mysteriously absent in top tier decks.

Because the top players have realized she can be disrupted with a simple Frost and a lot of weather cards are being played (NR baron, MO weather, Caranthir) in the shifted meta.

frbfree;n9276911 said:
7. The leaderboard is messed up. [...] As an XBox player, I can only see my position among XBox players, and not cross platform.

Xbox has an option to play against console players only. Do you have that enabled, perchance?
 
4RM3D;n9277031 said:
Xbox has an option to play against console players only. Do you have that enabled, perchance?

Gods no. I can only imagine how long my queue times would be if that was the case. I have cross-platform play enabled. But the leaderboard still only shows Xbox players.
 
frbfree;n9276911 said:
2. The 40 card decks have disappeared. And I couldn't be happier about it. In and around Rank 16-17, I was bombarded with people playing all sorts of crap with 35-40 cards, and I have no idea why or how they got there. But they're long gone above Rank 17, and I prefer the predictability. In a meta where all 4 golds need to come out, and in some cases 5 for Discard Skellige, the 35-40 card decks just can't win.

3. Deck disruption is a thing. I don't know if it's good or bad for the game. My deck causes me to be biased about the matter, so I won't speculate. But cards like Regis: HV, and to a lesser extent Avallach, really seem to frustrate people. There's very few NG decks at this point, but Treason/Sweers seem to play the same way when encountered.

5. Triss Butterfly is mysteriously absent in top tier decks. For a while, she was in every swarm deck I saw. But once I hit Rank 18, she quietly exited. It could be that Monster players just aren't drawing her against me, but I'm finding a lot of Caretaker/Spirit/Coranthir/Imerlith as opposed to Triss.

6. I still run into players who want to play out every card in their hand after you're out. Why does this still happen? You're Rank 19, Level 50, and you're still looking for overkill? Just stop people. Like, I realize that if you are above Level 50, you're probably spending too much time playing the Open Beta anyway, but even your time has to be more valuable than wasting it playing out cards when you've already won.



2. You are not getting why there are decks that can play more than 25 cards. Well there is exactly one faction that can and should which is NR. Your deck for NR isnt a random pile of cards you draw your deck is your pile of ressources that you use by playing cards direclty from it. Understanding that and then using this pile the right way is how NR is possibly a top faction that no one knows about. For example i run 35 cards in my NR build and consistently get to <10 cards in my deck left at the end of round 3.
If other factions can adapt similar strategies than they should your deck is a ressource access it

3. Adjusting your deck with hatecards that can crush decks you expect to face a lot and give you easy wins is a thing? Go figure;)

5. Since i use weather as my main interaction anyway TrissButt has never been a problem for me and shouldnt be for other players too since if you want to interact with your opponents deck in any way you should play weather.

6. I do that from time to time. Mostly when i either just want to see how well i played the match so i want to see how many ressources i still get to use or to just show my opponent that i didnt get lucky with the one card i played to win but i had other outs which would beat him aswell.
 
Tschjo;n9277251 said:
6. I do that from time to time. Mostly when i either just want to see how well i played the match so i want to see how many ressources i still get to use or to just show my opponent that i didnt get lucky with the one card i played to win but i had other outs which would beat him aswell.

Do you want him to learn from that in a way like "Look, that are the cards you would have faced if you played on. Improve your deck to counter that and you will become a better player or rank up" or "Look, you had no chance. I'm gonna show you how superior I am"? Sounds a little bit insecure that you have to show some girl or guy somewhere else in the world in front of a screen that you weren't lucky with your win... You won, what else do you want? I think most players know why they lost...
 
/shitstorm loading......

It did sound a bit meh. I had a feeling when the deck size was mentioned you'd appear, you luv the big decks.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Frisbee. I know that's not your name but I am going to call you it anyway.
 
General17491;n9277391 said:
Do you want him to learn from that in a way like "Look, that are the cards you would have faced if you played on. Improve your deck to counter that and you will become a better player or rank up" or "Look, you had no chance. I'm gonna show you how superior I am"? Sounds a little bit insecure that you have to show some girl or guy somewhere else in the world in front of a screen that you weren't lucky with your win... You won, what else do you want? I think most players know why they lost...

More in the way off "Look it wasnt the card i drew you dont have to be mad about beeing unlucky" kind of way. At least for me i hate when a game comes down to my opponent drawing a specific type of effect and they get it but its so specific they wouldnt run more than 1 in their deck. Its good to know then that even though they got that one thing it didnt matter
 
Tschjo;n9277461 said:
More in the way off "Look it wasnt the card i drew you dont have to be mad about beeing unlucky" kind of way. At least for me i hate when a game comes down to my opponent drawing a specific type of effect and they get it but its so specific they wouldnt run more than 1 in their deck. Its good to know then that even though they got that one thing it didnt matter

Bro, if you have 3 card advantage in Round 3, odds are your opponent knows why he lost. BECAUSE YOU HAD A 3 CARD ADVANTAGE IN ROUND 3.

Without resorting to anything harsher than this, I would simply tell you that people find it unsportsmanlike. Feel free to continue if you like, but don't look for GGs after you do it.
 
frbfree;n9277491 said:
don't look for GGs after you do it.

Agreed. Any "message" you are attempting to send is being translated as nothing other than bad manners/unsportsmanlike conduct.

Big decks can work, but may need some love from the devs to get more from them. And, fyi, NR is not the only faction that can run them. Big decks can and should be a part of the game. The idea that predictability is good, from the OP, is something that will harm the game, longterm, imo.

Deck interaction/disruption is a good thing, but it must be restricted (i.e. silvers and golds) so that it is something of a tradeoff, not something that can be spammed.

Discard SK is a thing cuz SK has 4 bronzes and 4 silvers plus golds and leaders that strengthen, mostly in the gy. Plus, 2 of those bronzes and 2 of those silvers also have veteran. That's a lot of buffing that can't be removed. It can make for a strong deck. It's not OP, and it is a thing for SK, I just wish the devs would devote some of their love to NR and ST. NR, for example, has rather lacklust golds. Just compare NG golds to NR, considerable imbalanace there.
 
Otterherder;n9277671 said:
Big decks can work, but may need some love from the devs to get more from them. And, fyi, NR is not the only faction that can run them. Big decks can and should be a part of the game. The idea that predictability is good, from the OP, is something that will harm the game, longterm, imo.

Deck interaction/disruption is a good thing, but it must be restricted (i.e. silvers and golds) so that it is something of a tradeoff, not something that can be spammed.

To be clear, I didn't mean to imply that it was good for the game. I meant to imply that I prefer to play against a 25 card deck, because I can better predict what my opponent has left.


And I agree that it's a good thing. I also agree that it can't be bronze. Having 3 of a card that disrupts a deck would force people to...I dunno, run more than 25 cards? ;)
 
1. SK Discard, Dagon Swarm, NR Sergeant/RH spam and every so often a Rado, Dorfs, SK Axe, ST Control, Eredin, Consume or rarely a random NG seems to be the theme (did I miss anything?). I don't have any kind words for five of those (almost 6). Bet nobody can guess which 5.

I think MS Swarm started to become a bit less common when literally everyone started to tech against it, and some people switched to SK FacerollDiscard/NR decks built for Sergeant/RH bombs. MS isn't exactly uncommon though.

2. I didn't think 40 card decks were ever common. Over 25 seems like more of a NR thing because reasons...

3. Deck disruption is fine to an extent.... RNG Donar is still annoying. Consume seems to be the only deck I've seen with Regis lately (losing flip in this MU can kiss my ass).

4. I won't speculate on the patch.

5. Triss isn't completely absent. She can be shut down so many ways. So that might explain her being a bit more rare. That and newer Swarm decks came out so the copycat bandwagon changed lanes.

6. People are people...

7. No idea what you mean with the leaderboard. I run Gwent on Xbox too and mine seems to show cross platform correctly.
 
Monsters is not as prevalent because as the meta continues people figure out better decks. I was fortunate enough to be one of the first people to start playing discard SK as I climbed from 3.7k to 4.3k and my match-ups went from mainly monsters with a small amount of SK to mostly SK with almost no monsters. The ranked meta right now seems like it's mainly SK, with some ST and Monsters mixed in. Although Dagon seems a lot less popular now. I seem to see a lot more Eredin frost at this point.

Swarm has gotten a lot less popular because everyone started teching against it. I think it's really hard to make any predictions about the meta because we don't know what the card changes will be yet. Everyone thought Monsters was dead with the last batch of nerfs, but they just keep coming back. However, the new SK discard options look really strong and I think we're going to continue to see a ton of discard SK unless there are direct nerfs to them or some counter pops up.
 
I think Mooshie has a good point; aren't the monsters less prevalent because of all the Rad decks? Discard (QG, full discard, etc.) are all good against control decks, so once Rad become the hit, enter discard. Seems like a lot of it is meta vs counter-meta versus counter-counter-meta. This is getting a little convoluded...
 
I'm battling with reaching level 19 and I'm kinda stuck at 3900... The deck I play is kinda wierd, it's a Monsters Fog Deck with ButterflyTriss and all the other stuff you would expect. I normally played Monster Consume until 3400, but then I could not get any higher on the ladder. Suprisingly, Monster Fog carried me this bit to "Master" Level 18, but now I see basically 60% ST -Discard decks. Wich I happen to lose against most of the time. With monsters I could technically f*ck up the enemy graveyard real good (Pedell, Griffins, Katakan) but it makes no sense to me to specifically build against one single Deck-Type, even though it is the most common. Then again, if it's that common even a little bit higher up at 4000, maybe this idea is not that bad...

What do you guys think?
 
I stopped playing ranked a few weeks ago when I hit Rank 19 and 4050 something MMR. I played mainly against Monster, so I stopped because it was pretty boring
 
Tschjo - i'm all for people like you showing me what trick they had up their sleeve, making sure next time i'll be prepared (although usually things are pretty predictable, and I'll end up forfeiting - something I don't like doing) but like everybody else said - don't be surprised or upset when you don't get GG. Wasting time, rubbing it in, and generally doing something many consider rude will usually cost you those extra 5 ore/scraps. But, again, your choice, and I'm in no way implying you are a rude person or an ungracious winner in real life. Only that it looks like it in the virtual world where our communication is limited to: ''not bad at all'', ''not bravery, but brains'' and ''aaargh!''

frbfree - your insight is much welcome. i kinda stopped playing almost completely about 2 months ago, when I was rank 16, and now that I know what might be waiting round the corner for those who make it to rank 20, I'm totally kicking myself (which is especially hard in my current fat condition). So I'm wondering if you could answer a couple of questions: 1.how long did it take you to make it to 4000? (Not that I think i'll make it in a week, especially with HenryGrosmont hogging the computer :p ) 2. What faction are you playing in ranked? the reason I'm asking is that you seem to be all ''monsters are a piece of cake'' - while my SK deck has the lowest win ratio against monsters (less than 50%!)
cheers, a
 
ArianeGrosmont;n9351831 said:
...especially with HenryGrosmont hogging the computer :p...
cheers, a
Lies! All lies!
I only play two tiers max and that amounts to what, 1.5-2 hours? On the other hand, someone logged endless hours in Witcher 3 (last played Aug 22). I'll let people decide... :comeatmebro:

 
Tschjo;n9277251 said:
6. I do that from time to time. Mostly when i either just want to see how well i played the match so i want to see how many ressources i still get to use or to just show my opponent that i didnt get lucky with the one card i played to win but i had other outs which would beat him aswell.
Lmao. If there was a downvote option, you would've set the record.

I'm about to vomit...
 
6. Isn't the opposite also true? I've always assumed it was Good Manners to forfeit once you know you've lost, to save everyone time, like knocking over your King in chess. Even on the final card the auto-pass -> turn change -> auto-pass can take valuable Gwent-seconds IMHO. Although I do seem to notice that I'm not able to GG sometimes when one player forfeits (and it's not a double tap on the escape key, or a forfeit in the early rounds)
 
Top Bottom