What I think why SC and SK are weak right now

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What I think why SC and SK are weak right now

simple---base power

I am no pro and I'm just a player slowly climbing the ladder, so tho I do feel like SC and SK are lacking good archtype, I feel like others can analyse that way better than I do, so I will ignore it for now.
back to topic.

I am not a "min max" style deck builder, my deck is usually like half building up own str with archtype chain-reaction and half offensive to prevent opponent to do whatever they want to do, I do not fully rely on the archtype and use only those that perform best with simplicity,

so the simple rule of mine is ----if a bronze card, played in a situation that is good for its specialty, cannot reach 10 str value (either by ability, damage, boost etc) in its first 2 rounds (because powerful cards will be targeted and probably won't last very long), it's probably not worth it.

And the thing is, most of NR,MS,NR bronze cards can do that now (some can easily push to 10+ once it's played), while SC bronzes in general probably takes few turns to move around to reach that, SK bronzes value are just horrible.

transformers usually need to take two turns to reach 12str, but since enemy will likely destroy it or leave it alone, you probably will need to trigger it yourself, and say you use archer to damage 3 transformers, you used 4 turns to play those cards, and you only get 7+12*3=43, that is barely useable.
And that is basically the same condition with other SK bronzes--take too long too get it to max condition (making those vunlerable), and the end result is not rewarding enough at all.
Pirate Captain? Best you can do is 14 str with an craite warrior, and discard warrior provides no further benefit, expcept you have war ships, yet they are so vunlerable on board
skirmisher will take 2 turns to reach 10+, and if you count the resurrector and take an average str value, it can only reach about 10 str per card at most.
Axeman? you start with 4 silly, you need to put it on a tow full of enemies on opposite and have AOE in your hand for that exact moment (that is, it doesn't die before that) and can barely reach 10
And the best damage you can do with a bronze SK is 4 str, rest are only 2 or 1 str damage, compare with other factions it is just weak.

Again, I did not invlove silver or gold in this discussion, but truth is SK silver/gold is not that good compare to other factions neither.

SK has this chain of weakness that other factions don't:
"Immediate str value too low->take many turns to enhance cards->the situation required to trigger abilities are less common->not good enough even at the max str value"

I would say the idea of SK play style is not bad per se, but the base str, damage value, ability restriction is just too big for SK to be competitive, they probably need a big boost in brute force
 
I agree with Skellige not being that good enough to be at a competitive range, as a player who has experienced several Skellige archetype decks, it is far, far too weak to cope with other factions that has higher value cards, and can produce a lot more power, boost, and STR, but Skellige struggles to even break it pass 10+ value on a card(s). Not only that, Skellige right now can be easily countered whether that be by graveyard stealing, or damage interruption with movement.
 
Not sure if serious.:hmm:

The guy who hit Top 1 first run Axemen Deck.

The guy who hit Top 1 after the first guy run SC Spell Deck.
 
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nunqmuo;n9535801 said:
Not sure if serious.:hmm:

The guy who hit Top 1 first run Axemen Deck.

The guy who hit Top 1 after the first guy run SC Spell Deck.

Well, a lot of people on high levels seem to play with these decks. Decks with two golden weathers and other weather cards are getting more and more common these days. And obviously, that really synergizes well with Axeman SK and Spellatael. If you play that very aggressively it can actually be extremely powerful.

So I wouldn't say there is no viable SK and SC deck. But it seems difficult these days to make a strong deck with these factions that doesn't depend so much on weather.
 
nunqmuo;n9535801 said:
The guy who hit Top 1 after the first guy run SC Spell Deck.

which was utterly nerfed in the previous hotfix, as was the other ST deck (mulligan)

nunqmuo;n9535801 said:
The guy who hit Top 1 first run Axemen Deck.

and how many times did axemen decks hit Top 1 since the meta settled?

Skelliga is weak because both of their archetypes from the previous patch were nerfed, while everything else was powercrept
Scoiatel was great before the hotfix, but both of their archetypes received heavy nerfs while everything else remained unchanged

that's why they're weak at the moment; neither can outpower NR and nekker decks, unless you build a deck designed to target those specific decks (but if you counter one, you lose to the other; not to mention the other decks you'll run into)
 
RickMelethron;n9536001 said:
that's why they're weak at the moment; neither can outpower NR and nekker decks, unless you build a deck designed to target those specific decks (but if you counter one, you lose to the other; not to mention the other decks you'll run into)
Now I know you're not serious. Nekkers? I've only seen a single Nekker deck, and I blew it out of the water. Nekkers are too conditional, and only boost by 1 if you consume. Counter the consume, or counter the Nekker. Game over.
 
arubino99;n9537471 said:
Now I know you're not serious. Nekkers? I've only seen a single Nekker deck, and I blew it out of the water. Nekkers are too conditional, and only boost by 1 if you consume. Counter the consume, or counter the Nekker. Game over.

i am. dagon decks which run the consume engine can easily drop 12+ nekkers for carryover, along with one or two ekimaras. it's one of the strongest decks in this meta, competing with NR
 
RickMelethron;n9537581 said:
i am. dagon decks which run the consume engine can easily drop 12+ nekkers for carryover, along with one or two ekimaras. it's one of the strongest decks in this meta, competing with NR

This.

#TeamMonsters
 
RickMelethron;n9537581 said:
i am. dagon decks which run the consume engine can easily drop 12+ nekkers for carryover, along with one or two ekimaras. it's one of the strongest decks in this meta, competing with NR
There's simply too many counters for Nekkers to be that strong. 12+ Nekker in round 1 for carryover? Not buying it.

Again, once you know it's Nekker, it's easy to stop. A lock, Mardroeme, stopping the consume, weather, lacerate, lots of things counter this deck.

Like I said, I haven't seen but one Nekker deck at 3800+.
 
arubino99;n9538571 said:
Again, once you know it's Nekker, it's easy to stop. A lock, Mardroeme, stopping the consume, weather, lacerate, lots of things counter this deck.

what deck runs mardroeme in the current meta?
some decks don't run locks either, or might not have their lock when necessary. even then, locking one nekker on the board doesn't stop the other two from getting buffed, and they can easily drop the second nekker on round 2 to get the carryover for round 3
i don't see how weather counters nekkers
i dont see how lacerate counters nekkers
"stopping the consume" and how're you going to do that..? by managing to kill every single unit your opponent plays?

here is one variant of the list: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2pAAlV2gNo
 
RickMelethron;n9538811 said:
what deck runs mardroeme in the current meta?
some decks don't run locks either, or might not have their lock when necessary. even then, locking one nekker on the board doesn't stop the other two from getting buffed, and they can easily drop the second nekker on round 2 to get the carryover for round 3
i don't see how weather counters nekkers
i dont see how lacerate counters nekkers
"stopping the consume" and how're you going to do that..? by managing to kill every single unit your opponent plays?

here is one variant of the list: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2pAAlV2gNo
Weather counters them because you lose consume values. Only way to win round 1 is to consume eggs. Eliminate eggs, no points. Lacerate and tremors both do the job.
As for locks, the only deck not running at least one card that locks is ST spell, but they're going to wipe your units anyways.
I watched that video. The NR player made many mistakes. Swim should have lost, hands down.
 
Lyserus;n9535251 said:
...
Pirate Captain? Best you can do is 14 str with an craite warrior, and discard warrior provides no further benefit, expcept you have war ships, yet they are so vunlerable on board
skirmisher will take 2 turns to reach 10+, and if you count the resurrector and take an average str value, it can only reach about 10 str per card at most.
...
Hate to break it to you, but I got treated to three 27 strength Pirate Captains yesterday. (used T skirmishers, revives and T veterans to discard the former at +20 base strength). Sure, it did requre some setup, but the deck managed to keep up tempo well enough and had this as a finisher. You would be hard-pressed to find bronze cards from other factions to pull that off consistently.
 
RickMelethron;n9536001 said:
Skelliga is weak because both of their archetypes from the previous patch were nerfed, while everything else was powercrept
Scoiatel was great before the hotfix, but both of their archetypes received heavy nerfs while everything else remained unchanged
Skellige is in better shape than Scoia, imo. Scoia was nerfed to the ground, it will take a miracle for them to recover. The only faction that can successfully counter this insane amount of tempo.
Thanks to all the crying. People can't look further than one card.
RickMelethron;n9536001 said:
that's why they're weak at the moment; neither can outpower NR and nekker decks, unless you build a deck designed to target those specific decks (but if you counter one, you lose to the other; not to mention the other decks you'll run into)
+1
Trent2501;n9547771 said:
Hate to break it to you, but I got treated to three 27 strength Pirate Captains yesterday. (used T skirmishers, revives and T veterans to discard the former at +20 base strength). Sure, it did requre some setup, but the deck managed to keep up tempo well enough and had this as a finisher. You would be hard-pressed to find bronze cards from other factions to pull that off consistently.
Please, SK decks are tier 2 atm. They need a favorable matchup. And the whole game unfortunately goes the rock/paper/scissors way.


P.S. The moment Merigold's Hailstorm gets nerfed (assuming other thing are left unchanged) it's gonna suuuck.

P.P.S. The Movement aspect and agility for every faction is way overdone. First time you heard it here.
 
HenryGrosmont;n9548541 said:
Skellige is in better shape than Scoia, imo. Scoia was nerfed to the ground, it will take a miracle for them to recover. The only faction that can successfully counter this insane amount of tempo.
Thanks to all the crying. People can't look further than one card.
This is quite funny. I play ST on pro lader since it's start and i'm doing VERY well with it, against every faction.
 
I dont know in what kind of world you guys are leaving but ST is farm from weak. I might agree that SK is the weakest faction right now and if you have trouble with them its only because you meet so few of them and you dont know what to expect. And also Monsters are easly countered yeah sure thats why Dagon consume deck is the most powerful and flexible deck right now with very few counters. Just try playing this game or at least check statistics before writing in the forum.
 
nivellen75;n9550541 said:
This is quite funny. I play ST on pro lader since it's start and i'm doing VERY well with it, against every faction.

Same I too reach rank 19 with ST weather movement. Ya of course now I am struggling on 4k mark but when I started with Sk ohh man that was real bad.

Almost all important Sk silver & golds are bad compare to other factions, Cards like Donar / Udalryk / COC / Blueboy / Holgar / Draig / Kambi / Birna / Ermion / Vabjorn / Hjalmar etc.. & more neutral counters getting efficient against Sk like Eskel / Regis / Artefact Compression / Hailstorm / Necromancy / Scorch / Igni

Sk don't have any archetype which actually don't need resurrection & I think that's bad. Cards like Freya / Sigrdrifa are become so important in every deck which makes Sk super predictable & mulligan against Sk is very easy & straight forward which against other faction are not.
 
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