What is the fun in playing Nilfgaard?

[mazeebra]

I still find it a bit strange that you can purify a lock. I guess in the context of a battle, the situation is that the unit locks down the other one in some kind of flank, or even take them prisoners. But then comes the diviner and purifies them and boom, not locked anymore.

When did Mahakam Ale become such a worthless card anyways?

Purify is completely logical against poison, somewhat logical against bleeding (although vitality/healing is more logical), but locks? How can you purify locks? Some of the shenanigans repeat Nilfgaard units could be locked, and that's it, but no, they are ofcourse purified, so you have to remove them instead, and if you do, chance is they will renew it.

So, then monsters might bring the 8p and/or 9p lock, just for it to be removed by a 5p 4b card.

Except against NR, locks have really become way less valuable as a tool for anything.

 

[BoYoDes]

When a factions lacks viable engines to keep with the tempo provided by engines from other factions, it has to rely on something. Unfortunately I have to agree with @DRK3 about how NG was my top-top faction in the game and the pit that the devs dig for it after Homecoming, stripping it of perfectly fleshed archetypes like spies and some that needed some tweaking (Reveal for me was one of those with the asterisk it needed to focus more on revealing your own cards). It got stripped of so many mechanics and those were replaced by something-something control, but not enough (just see NR). After all of this the faction lacks actual diversity and relies on some really strong gold cards (and leader abilities) to be competitive. Assimilate in theory can be good, but it severely lacks tempo compared to other engine archetypes like Harmony.

Once more I also need to point the amount of cards and units that do damage. Still waiting for provisions adjustments on those. With adding more and more of those, if the devs like the board of the game to have actual points on it (on both sides), they have to raise their provisions, thus making air for other cards to shine too.

 

[Draconifors]

How can you purify locks?

Because Purify clears all Statuses, and Lock is a status. No point in trying to find a reasoning beyond that because it's hardly the only thing/mechanic in the game that makes no real, logical sense. And it's only a game, anyway.

But if you really want to, two possibilities immediately come to mind: they're not physical locks but mental ones (can only lock units, after all), or Purifying means applying strong acid or something like a hacksaw to a physical lock.

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As for the topic, the fun in playing Nilfgaard is messing with opponents' strategies while simultaneously executing one's own. Whether it be through poison, locks, stealing, spies, or other tricks doesn't really matter.
Plus, representing the Empire is fun in itself.

 

[BoYoDes]

... the fun in playing Nilfgaard is messing with opponents' strategies...

Please give me examples of currently competitive cards that can do that. For obvious reasons you can take Bribery and Invocation out of the list (maybe Cynthia, Vilgeforz and Tibor are fine, but the last two can backfire brutally => RNG). We are talking about two to maximum three cardsthat you will put in a deck that will do that "messing" to an extent, everything else is destroy-destroy-destroy (and a lock here or there).

 

[Draconifors]

Please give me examples of currently competitive cards that can do that.

No, because I never said anything about being competitive. I don't care about ranking up, and I don't care whether the cards I use are "competitive" or not.

It's in the thread title: fun.

 

[DRK3]

Im surprised that are so many players using Mill, considering how bad it is.

Yesterday i was playing MO vs Mill, and i just felt sorry for him the entire match. Here's a guy using all his provisions trying to mill my deck when i already have my 2 combo cards in hand, and for what? for a free 13pt Tibor? He already used Vilgefortz and leader ability so i answered with a Death's Shadow Caranthir triple Living Armor, that's an easy 33 pts in 2 turns... he forfeited and was probably traumatized.

 

[mazeebra]

Im surprised that are so many players using Mill, considering how bad it is.

It's because it is so fun!

It doesn't have to be bad, it can be quite decent. Goals are not always the same with every mill deck, and they don't all look the same.

 

[thetruerenter]

Mill is probably the most addictive deck there is.

 

[mazeebra]

Ahh, and my Nilfgaard weather deck (lol). Found a use for Palmerin at last.

 

[BoYoDes]

... the fun in playing Nilfgaard is messing with opponents' strategies...

Please give me examples of currently competitive cards that can do that. For obvious reasons you can take Bribery and Invocation out of the list (maybe Cynthia, Vilgeforz and Tibor are fine, but the last two can backfire brutally => RNG). We are talking about two to maximum three cardsthat you will put in a deck that will do that "messing" to an extent, everything else is destroy-destroy-destroy (and a lock here or there).

No, because I never said anything about being competitive. I don't care about ranking up, and I don't care whether the cards I use are "competitive" or not.

It's in the thread title: fun.

I rest my case.

 

[Draconifors]

I rest my case.

A case built on nothing but an assumption and words you put in my mouth, yeah.

I'm hardly the only one to whom 'fun' does not have to equal 'competitive'. It can -- and it sure did with my swarm deck back in beta -- but it does not have to.

 

[mazeebra]

Please give me examples of currently competitive cards that can do that. For obvious reasons you can take Bribery and Invocation out of the list (maybe Cynthia, Vilgeforz and Tibor are fine, but the last two can backfire brutally => RNG). We are talking about two to maximum three cardsthat you will put in a deck that will do that "messing" to an extent, everything else is destroy-destroy-destroy (and a lock here or there).

Well, you have examples in low provision cards like infiltrator, which is basically anti-thinning, which some decks/players would consider very bad for them. If you play another card (which in itself is poor value) in the viper witchers just before that, you do gain some control of the opponents deck.

Add cards like Tibor or Vilgefortz at the right time, and you can turn rounds around, while disrupting the enemy deck and gameplan. Now you also have that messenger bronze NG/SY card which can gain you additional control of all these moves or can give a card like Cantarelle additional value (which is also possible with Trahearn). Add to that some additional graveyard control and you realize there are ways to control the opponent outside of locks and damage.

I'm not saying you should or need to use all of these, but just some of these in the right deck will give you a significant chance of messing with the opponents strategy.

 

[Evangium]

Sadly, most seasonal modes tend to favour some form of Assimilate hybrid deck, so there is the easy wins factor in non-competitve games. It's all simple, low skill, boost, copy and damage/kill your opponent's units plays. Even mill isn't that difficult to set up compared to other CCGs. Kind of makes me sad, since the NG of open beta days produced a couple of rather high skill decks that relied rather heavily on bluff and your opponent making mistakes. That said, NG was also responsible for some absolutely cancerous decks that pretty much turned every game into a binary win/lose situation depending on if they'd drawn their key cards.

 

[BoYoDes]

A case built on nothing but an assumption and words you put in my mouth, yeah.

I'm hardly the only one to whom 'fun' does not have to equal 'competitive'. It can -- and it sure did with my swarm deck back in beta -- but it does not have to.

No, you proved my point that "deck shenanigans" is non competitive. What is competitive is destroy/remove, maybe lock. How long does an infiltrator lives? Also - what a waste of design - if you play it (and it lives) R1, OP can replay it in R2 and it ends up in your deck again. What a great card.

This game was built on fun AND competitive. The first part is no more and the second one is shaking.

What is the best use of Tibor? It is in Hyperthin, so you can multiply his value with other cards, cause on his own, he can make you pull your hair from the skull (against NR, SK, SY - that's a lot). I've also pointed how him and Vilgeforz can backfire, thank you.

There are cards that on paper are messing with OP's deck, in reality they are so under valued that you are simply ruining the game for yourself.

 

[mazeebra]

There are cards that on paper are messing with OP's deck, in reality they are so under valued that you are simply ruining the game for yourself.

What card to pull out exactly would not make it worth to use vilgefortz on say a 24 point greatsword to turn the round?

 

[BoYoDes]

What card to pull out exactly would not make it worth to use vilgefortz on say a 24 point greatsword to turn the round?

Please, I am not saying that Vilgeforz is a bad card - just that he can backfire, just like Tibor. You don't always have this huge card to burn with him. Ask NR about it.

 

[mazeebra]

Please, I am not saying that Vilgeforz is a bad card - just that he can backfire, just like Tibor. You don't always have this huge card to burn with him. Ask NR about it.

It CAN backfire, sure, but the backfire might not even matter (if the removal reward is good enough). Against smaller cards it's normally not worth using Vilgefortz unless you are milling for some reason, exactly due to the risk of backfire as you say.

Tibor is more dangerous, you can end up pulling out an engine for the opponent and place a target for their tall removal, which might end up loosing you the round. However, I think Tibor is about good timing. It's almost always a matter of timing in my experience. Good timing, he turns the round, bad timing, well, removal or lose the round because of Tibor.

Diclaimer: I only really use Vilgefortz in my gimmick milling deck

 

[Rulegard]

I'm one of the guy who always quits when "meeting" NG, so this might be biased...
I have the impression all the (strong) NG decks have one thing on common: I think it is the faction which is based very strongly on reaction and not on action.
All the other factions rely on planning, activating something and so on. NG simply has the broadest repertorie on "wait, seek and destroy". Just look what's happening on the board, almost any NG-archetype has always an answer in the deck resulting in utter destruction of the opponents strategy.
(And yes: NR engines has a lot of potential to "seek and destroy" as well, but at least they have to lay out a plan somehow)
I have the impression that's what people like when they play NG (at least against me): You always have an answer to anything and do not have to plan a delicate course of action yourself....

 

[static-ghost]

Ugh Can we have at least one season with special rules that doesn't benefits Nilfs only?

 

[Korovjov101]

I have the impression all the (strong) NG decks have one thing on common: I think it is the faction which is based very strongly on reaction and not on action.

I'm quite green to the game, but after some weeks playing with Monster/Syndicate/Skellige factions to try out new stuff, I had the same impression: Loads of times whatever faction or strategy I was rocking, two out of three Nilfgaard players never even played one of their own units, just spammed lock, betrayal, assassination and "create/play a card from opponent's hand/deck". One time one of them used so much of my deck, I didn't have more cards left for another round after I won the previous one.
They just make any game cheesy and an over-all droll by making it feel the opponent's just basically cheating all the time, completely destroying one's will to try out new stuff or even play them. I tend to quit the matches quite early too when I realize the same pattern, they're just not worth the time, feels like wasting energy even if you beat them.