What is up with the ragdolls in this game???

[batouyukinawa]

These seem to be the four very common types of CRS (crappy ragdoll syndrome).

Yet here there are times the ragdolls look correct. Any idea as to why ragdolls occasionally work correctly while other times they completely break? What would cause a system to only work 50% of the time?

 

[Bartinga2077]

"WHAT IS UP WITH THE RAGDOLLS IN THIS GAME???"​

If I were to guess, I'd say that's just the game simply utilizing artificial gravity to (randomly) decide the "Drop dead" sequence from turning out. See similar workings in different games.

 

[BigWezz69]

They should have used Euphoria like Rockstar did and still do.

 

[SpookyFX]

Google this: "passed out in funny positions"

Plenty of RL examples show the ragdoll is not all that bad. It is a combination of dozens of factors in geometry, balance and movement. Just like in real life. So many it seems random.

You want bad ragdoll you will find it in the older Bethesda games. The Engine would send the "doll" into an entirely different set of rules for movement and balance AND FRICTION than the conscious NPC and it looked terrible. Many mod makers (including myself) tried to fix this but it was too deep in the game code to fix.

 

[LeeSavage]

These seem to be the four very common types of CRS (crappy ragdoll syndrome).
View attachment 11228726
Yet here there are times the ragdolls look correct. Any idea as to why ragdolls occasionally work correctly while other times they completely break? What would cause a system to only work 50% of the time?
View attachment 11228735

I think some of the fallout games had this problem. The clipping and weird weighting of ragdolls leave them in some stupid positions. It’s the body position at the point of death that determines it. Hence why it’s so random.
I am slightly more bothered by bodies suddenly leaping to their feet after death only to give falling down a second try. It’s really crap and happens so often. They’re dead, then they lift into the air like possessed daemons then drop. It often fixes the idiotic positions of the bodies but does it by totally destroying immersion. Head in hand.

 

[greeks]

"Unlike real world, fiction has to make sense".


It doesn't look natural? Change it so it does. Works great witrh art as well, did you know? There are rules upon rules of composition. Some people argue that videogames are also art. And I doubt Cyberpunk wanted to go into abstractionism.

 

[batouyukinawa]

No, I can tell what's going on. I've had a entire course in rigging in college. I can tell that the actual rigging and bones of each NPC is breaking. Their arms will bend in a way not possible unless you break the joint. Usually in a rig this doesn't happen unless you've done something wrong. They also fall in a way their body is weighted properly because you will see NPC's will be propped up by a arm which would never happen in real life because the torso is way heavier.

 

[incomingdamage]

Ragdolls are sometimes weird in this game, I agree. It's probably a general problem in games though?

 

[BigWezz69]

Ragdolls are sometimes weird in this game, I agree. It's probably a general problem in games though?

Not every game suffers from poor physics/ragdoll rigs

 

[eatchocolate]

love rockstar shit as much as the next gamer but man in this couple seconds the ragdoll does NOT look right

 

[BigWezz69]

love rockstar shit as much as the next gamer but man in this couple seconds the ragdoll does NOT look right

Head blown off, body slumps down the bench, seems ok to me, especially when you look at this;

 

[eatchocolate]

and those are nice cases try introducing *drum roll*
a door in the mix *dun duun duuun*, if we're serious for a second those three cases share one thing :
Force, where (if it exists) is the force applied to the doll for it to do look like a "rag" (what a terrible term btw)
in the first gif the force is clearly applied downward to get that slumping effect but it kinda looks uncanny,
in the funny chairs case not sure where the force is applied at all probably yet another dozen bugs right there,
in the npc clipped in a door case (seen in soooooooo many games) ... well ... depends on the door type, where the npc is clipping, your fps, how much of the npc is in the door and so on, a bunch of forces applied in the most bizard non realistic way possible.

guess the takeaway if there's any here is, hmmm
stop calling it ragdoll ?! maybe ?

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Head blown off, body slumps down the bench, seems ok to me, especially when you look at this;

View attachment 11230094

If I remember, in RDR2, I did a headshot on a guy, but he walked a few more meters before collapsing... like a headless duck.
I you show the "best" example on RDR2 and the worst on Cyberpunk, that sound not really fair

And without doubt, I left a lot more corpse in Cyberpunk than in RDR2.

 

[BigWezz69]

and those are nice cases try introducing *drum roll*
a door in the mix *dun duun duuun*, if we're serious for a second those three cases share one thing :
Force, where (if it exists) is the force applied to the doll for it to do look like a "rag" (what a terrible term btw)
in the first gif the force is clearly applied downward to get that slumping effect but it kinda looks uncanny,
in the funny chairs case not sure where the force is applied at all probably yet another dozen bugs right there,
in the npc clipped in a door case (seen in soooooooo many games) ... well ... depends on the door type, where the npc is clipping, your fps, how much of the npc is in the door and so on, a bunch of forces applied in the most bizard non realistic way possible.

guess the takeaway if there's any here is, hmmm
stop calling it ragdoll ?! maybe ?

In the RDR2 gif, the force, for lack of a better term is coming at the NPC face on (literally) and their upper body snaps backwards with that applied force. Then, gravity drags the lifeless body downwards, they slump off the bench and onto the floor.

In the CP77 image, a flame grenade was thrown, exploded and they all just popped up out of their seats, then fell back into them. However as you can see, they are not interacting with the seats correctly at all, it looks as if the seat is one solid block and they are laying on it.

If you want to see for yourself, its at 0:49 into the video

Post automatically merged: Jun 26, 2021

If I remember, in RDR2, I did a headshot on a guy, but he walked a few more meters before collapsing... like a headless duck.
I you show the "best" example on RDR2 and the worst on Cyberpunk, that sound not really fair

And without doubt, I left a lot more corpse in Cyberpunk than in RDR2.

That wasnt even the "best" example to be honest, it was just "an" example, ie, standard. But here is another fines example

Without seeing what you saw in RDR2, I'd say the guy that you blew his head off, staggered forward with inertia then fell? I've seen it before, but mainly with standard headshots, which again seems quite normal as the body is in movement so it will keep going.

Rockstar use something called Euphoria, and it was also used in The Force Unleashed 1 and 2.
More info

Euphoria (software) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[LeKill3rFou]

In the CP77 image, a flame grenade was thrown, exploded and they all just popped up out of their seats, then fell back into them. However as you can see, they are not interacting with the seats correctly at all, it looks as if the seat is one solid block and they are laying on it.

For me, sound like more a problem with chair hitbox than "gravity" on corpses
But I'm not an expert at all

That wasnt even the "best" example to be honest, it was just "an" example, ie, standard. But here is another fines example

Without seeing what you saw in RDR2, I'd say the guy that you blew his head off, staggered forward with inertia then fell? I've seen it before, but mainly with standard headshots, which again seems quite normal as the body is in movement so it will keep going.

Rockstar use something called Euphoria, and it was also used in The Force Unleashed 1 and 2.
More info

So rude ! Punch an old lady, I never did that, that's for sure
What I wanted to say is that apart from a few "bugs" from time to time, it works quite well in general on Cyberpunk.

 

[BigWezz69]

For me, sound like more a problem with chair hitbox than "gravity" on corpses
But I'm not an expert at all

So rude ! Punch an old lady, I never did that, that's for sure
What I wanted to say is that apart from a few "bugs" from time to time, it works quite well in general on Cyberpunk.

Perhaps I've just been spoiled by playing other games that use (imo) far better physic engines then CP77 does. To me, the people you kill in CP77 once killed (ie their HP reaches zero) they lose all sense of bodily weight and flop to the floor and fall in a very unrealistic way, which in turn causes them to lay in a very odd position. Sometimes it works, sure, but I've noticed quite a few times that their bodies fall in a way that would be impossible for a human body to do.

On the other hand in GTA V and in RDR2 (more so the latter), when the player kills someone, they still seem to have a sense of weight, and collapse in a manner that you might expect a real human to fall. Yes, sometimes it doesn't quite work, but more often than not, it does.

If you haven't checked out what Euphoria is, I strongly recommend that you do as it will help you understand what I mean. It's not software made by Rockstar, its actually created by NaturalMotion. This 2min video sort of explains it very clearly

P.S. that old woman had it coming

 

[eatchocolate]

In the CP77 image, a flame grenade was thrown, exploded and they all just popped up out of their seats, then fell back into them. However as you can see, they are not interacting with the seats correctly at all, it looks as if the seat is one solid block and they are laying on it.

suspected as much, probably the collision box of the chair pushing them upward much stronger than gravity is pulling them downwad, in the first gif it's the opposite, gravity seems to have a multiplier applied if the npc was sitting when ragdoll is called giving it that weird effect.

 

[BigWezz69]

suspected as much, probably the collision box of the chair pushing them upward much stronger than gravity is pulling them downwad, in the first gif it's the opposite, gravity seems to have a multiplier applied if the npc was sitting when ragdoll is called giving it that weird effect.

It's more to do with the fact that Rockstar uses Euphoria for its animation, and CDPR does not

 

[LeKill3rFou]

It's more to do with the fact that Rockstar uses Euphoria for its animation, and CDPR does not

Sometimes, it's good to try by yourself and maybe (probably/certainly) fail than always count on the others (and paid for that, Euphoria is probably not free)

 

[batouyukinawa]

My theory is actually one that makes sense.
If you think about last gen, they probably needed a way to save on CPU resources.
It seems like the physics applies but only for a short moment. Meaning the ragdoll will fall but only for a set time.
This is how they end up in very strange poses. How legs prop up like there's no gravity or entire bodies never fully slump over
and can be propped up by an elbow as they lye sideways on the pavement.