I think @Zeroscape that if one ending was objectively better than the other than there'd be no point in choosing any ending but that one.
Hence, the ambiguity.
Hence, the ambiguity.
You're right, of course, I think my difficulty with the empress ending has more to do with the fact it creates more questions than it really answers. At least for me, I can't fully make my mind up on it and so it feels uncomfortable. I don't know if that's due to the problems I've outlined or something else. But there it is.
I think the ending is presented as being deliberately uncomfortable through the depiction of Ciri and Geralt departing forever, for one. This is something which seems to bother people a lot but it seems clear that by "giving" her to the Empire, Geralt is not going to be allowed to see the Empress again. There's no reason why this is given other than the scandal of a dirty witcher seeing the ruler of the World but it's very clearly implied.
Next, there's the fact that Emrhys is depicted as a ruthless aggressive warlord. He's giving up his throne to Cirilla but I couldn't shake the feeling that he has something up his sleeve. I think a large part of is I genuinely don't think Emryhs loves Ciri. I think he thinks he does but he's so twisted that its an unhealthy, evil kind of love. The use of Tywin Lannister/Charles Dance/Vetinari and the fact I've read the books leaves me with this impression to.
There's also the fact that being a King is treated as kind of a terrible fate in the Witcherverse. It's not really a good thing because all of the monarchs we meet are one shade of a psychopath or another, Cerys and Calanthe excepted. Ciri will have to harden herself to survive and that will change her from the idealistic, good person into something much more ruthless and cold. We saw all the people around Emryhs and it is a land of flatterers and sycopants, not friends or admirers.
Only a sociopath like Phillipa, Radovid, and Dijkstra would want a court like Nilfgaards.
There's also the genuine question as to what Ciri is going to DO that's going to change the world. It's easy to measure the good a Witcher can do because it's saving people's lives. Less so when it's an expansionist Empire built on the back of war profiteering.
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So, I guess you don't trust Ciri to stand up for her own beliefs, eh? Well, we've seen where that leads to...
Also, this notion of "Ciri and Geralt (+ Yen) parting forever" is pure pishposh. Lest we forget, Ciri can teleport, as can Yen.
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I trust Ciri would be forced to kill her dad.
Which Geralt thought might have been a good thing to try and avoid.
But yes, Saskia is one of the most intelligent, decent, powerful people in the Continent from his brief impressions of her.
And Phillipa took over her mind.
She's DANGEROUS and is worried about any situation that puts Ciri near her.
I'm pretty sure that mama Yennefer is going to check in on Ciri from while to while, to see if someone like Philippa is messing with her mind. And I don't see why Ciri would have to kill Emhyr, he wants her to become the next Empress and wants to abdicate in her favor.
I'm backing away from my previous stances on the thing in the context Witcher 3 doesnt support them as a singular version.
I prefer Witcheress ending but understand how some people prefer Empress Ciri ending.
For me, it's the "Spirit of the Tree" decision all over again and I think it reflects a lot of players' thinking that the decision ultimately boils down to the idea whether they trust the Tree Spirit or not. The Crones are absolutely evil (Radovid) while the Spirit of the Tree is nebulous (Is she a Druid or the Hags' mother?-Is Emhyr going to try to warp Ciri or a caring father or both?).
In the end, my Geralt just did not trust the tree.
Just the same as Emhyr.
Players who do side with Emhyr believe that Emhyr's love for his daughter is greater than his love of power, IMHO.
I didn't believe that.
I think CD_Red avoided their usual problem by providing both options equal amounts of support and they deserve credit for their usual accusations of "one option being more Geralty than others."
Heh, I trusted the tree and then got to mull over the decision when I saw the consequences to that village. That was one of the best quests in the game, IMHO.
And, yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head here, it also depends a lot if players trust Emhyr enough to do right by his child. I still think it is more of a case of trusting Ciri to be able to deal with all people hostile to her at the court (maybe including Emhyr), but making Emhyrs intentions a focal point of concern is valid enough, too.
personally i found the ciri "dies" ending to be the better ending for the emotional impact it leaves you with, although it never says that ciri dies, if ciri would die than there should have also been a good ending where ciri dies imo.
if you got the the ciri "dies" ending it means that you were basically a douchebagery asshole large part of the time, and ciri has no incentive to come back because the most influential person in her life basically shows her numerous times he doesnt really give 2 shits about her (or thinks very little of her), so imo she just does what she does in the books, meaning she teleports to another world and picks up the pieces of her life to start in another place a new.
if you got the the ciri "dies" ending it means that you were basically a douchebagery asshole large part of the time, and ciri has no incentive to come back because the most influential person in her life basically shows her numerous times he doesnt really give 2 shits about her (or thinks very little of her), so imo she just does what she does in the books, meaning she teleports to another world and picks up the pieces of her life to start in another place a new.
That seems to really really miss the point of Geralt's interactions since they're showing he's desperate to protect her and COMMITS SUICIDE when she's gone.
That's an interesting definition of douchebag.
Geralt treats her like a child--because he still sees her as his little girl--and would rather die than live on without her.
Ciri teleporting away to leave her father to die is....kind of OOC.
you can still want to protect someone and do it in the worst way possible, which is exemplified in this ending, i didnt see that gerlat dies or commits suicide in the end, in the end i saw he killed the last crone and was seen holding ciri's medallion and in the ending pictures he continued the unforgiving life of a witcher on the road.
more over if he treats her like a little girl it means he thinks poorly of her, she cant make decisions, she cant handle stuff, practically what your saying is geralt needs to chew the food for her and feed her because evidently she cant do that right either(used this exaggeration to make a point), now by your reckoning would you want to stick through thick and thin with such a person?
i bet that when you left your parents' protective wings, you did all sorts of mistakes, you crashed and burned big time on several occasions, thats the whole deal here, ciri will make mistakes small, big, life changing ones, the thing you can count on in life is that death will eventually claim you and that you will make mistakes, and that is my position regarding the ciri "dies" ending.
more over if he treats her like a little girl it means he thinks poorly of her, she cant make decisions, she cant handle stuff, practically what your saying is geralt needs to chew the food for her and feed her because evidently she cant do that right either(used this exaggeration to make a point), now by your reckoning would you want to stick through thick and thin with such a person?
i bet that when you left your parents' protective wings, you did all sorts of mistakes, you crashed and burned big time on several occasions, thats the whole deal here, ciri will make mistakes small, big, life changing ones, the thing you can count on in life is that death will eventually claim you and that you will make mistakes, and that is my position regarding the ciri "dies" ending.
Our read is different. My idea of Bad Ending Geralt is he finishes killing the Crone and then waits for the monsters to kill him.
Also, my parents are controlling interfering idiots....I love them but at age 34, I can live my own life.
I can see Geralt WRONG in how he treats Ciri but still a loving father.
It's just his good-intentions lead to the death of his reason for living.
our read on this is indeed different, we'll have to agree to disagree, because imo waiting there to be killed would be out of character for geralt, because he still has yen (or triss) and even if he doesnt have yen (or triss) , try as i may i just cant see him committing suicide.
and what you said in your second sentence is exactly how i perceive the situation with ciri "dies" she can more than handle her self, she has done it for several years without geralt's help so she doesnt need him holding her hand because she needs to go to the loo.
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Something like this: You`re insolent because you believe i cannot afford to hurt you, and you`re right yet that will change one day when you no longer indispensable but .... disposable.
Yeah, you're not alone. Here, it struck me as a more powerful and true ending that as much as Geralt loves Yen and Triss, it's not equal to his love of Ciri.
Which is a controversial position at best.
definitely so, but even in the books when he lost ciri and yen, he went on, as fortune would have it after a long while he got back on yen' trail, but the main point here is that even with the double loss, that arguably could have broken him, it didnt, at least not entirely.
btw silly of me but i forgot to mention that the playthrough i watched, the person wanted to be totally different from all the lovey dovey approach that most people will take so he naturally chose all the douchebag-assholey options he could.
i would like to know if its possible to pick the good choices and still get the bad ending?
Ciri can die if you take her drinking, accompany her with Phillipa, take money from Emhyrs, don't let her trash the lab, and some other entirely Neutral things.
hm, that doesnt make sense, it seems that you need to make some choices that some appear bad but are good and some appear good but are bad...
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