Hmm... I guess I will have to explain what I base my "levels" for "RPG" and "RPG-lite"... and what I use to measure games against.
Basicly, every game I play... or atleast every game I play that can be at some level considered to be an rpg (no matter which level it is)... I measure up against "real rpg's"... and by "real rpg's" I mean pen and paper rpg's (mainly Swedish ones... because we have some really good ones I think). So pen and paper rpg's are the measuring stick that all other games are measured against.
So first off... Games I have played that come closest to feeling like "real rpg's" are games like Fallout 1, 2 and Tactics. 1 and 2 I consider to have come the closest, with FoT trailing behind with other games above it. Some of the japanese rpg's can also come close to this, but they are extreamly few, and usually would be below FoT. And I do not, for example, consider FFVII (my favorit FF game) to be close. Other games from my "RPG" list that I would consider to come really close to "real rpg's", is Shadowrun Returns, and yes.. especially Divinity: Original Sin i consider to be really close (D:OS I would even place just below or on par with Fallout 1/2 here, not goten far enough in it yet to decide compleatly where it places it's self). Of course there might be other games to, but for the sake of space I will leave it at this.
As for the people who asked me about why I did not add game X... like Torment, or Diablo, or possibly other games... I either just forgot them, or did not add them, due to that I already had 2 large lists of games already... there was enough there to give you an idea I though. Diablo 1 and 2 I would place in my "RPG" level but towards the bottom end. Tormen I would place in it as well (since it's the same game mechanics as Balders Gate). But I have actually never played Torment,but I do know of it, and I have friends who played it (where I sometimes watched them play), It just was never pulled me in. Which is why it is not on either of my lists, since I have not played it. The only game on the lists which I have not played is Mordheim, but from what I have read it will probably be on my list. I actually prefer Neverwinter Nights, over Balders Gate, but again I never finished those either (se below as to why).
And I know one of the reason as to why (there are others as well)... it's the same reason as to why I never really finished, or had interest in finishing, Balders Gate (even though I got pretty far into that one), or NVN (which I actually like a lot more, I even bought them). It's DnD. And as a pen and paper rpg gamer, I have never liked DnD's rules. There is a lot about DnD's rules which I simply think are "just wrong", it's just to... simple in many aspects amongst other things. Not to mention that I never really liked levelbased pnp rpg's. I prefer skillbased pnp rpg's (which most Swedish pnp rpg's are, actually). How ever, when it comes to computer/console games... I can ignore the fact if a game is levelbased normally, because creating a good skillbased pc/console game is difficult, really difficult. But, if you add DnD to the mix I tend to grimace and go "no thanks... not for me". I was actually really happy when I found out that Bioware had stepped away from DnD as a base for their games, and created their own thing for Dragon Age Origins (even if it probably is simmilar to DnD in some aspects).
Now, as for why I leave a lot of games out when I was talking about "Real RPG's"... games like Diablo, or Balders Gate, NVN, DAO, Elder Scrolls, etc. And I asume a lot of you are really going "WHAT?!" by the fact that I am not counting Balders Gate amongst the "close" ones. The answer is pretty simple... They are not turnbased.
It is only turnbased computer/console games that stand a chance to come close to "Real RPG's" for me... because basicly all pnp rpg's (that I know of) use turnbased combat. Of course it takes more then just turnbased combat for a game to come close, it needs to have everything else as well... but without turnbased combat, it is unable to qualify. So since Baldurs Gate, and other games like it, DAO, NVN, Torment, etc, are realtime with pause types of game, they can not qualify to be "pnp rpg like" for me.
Then if you look at my "RPG-lite" list, you will find games that are turnbased, which I would not consider to be close, because either they are lacking several of the other importent things needed to get close to "real rpg's", of they have all those things but just to low of a level of it.
