I've listed them in my other post:
"Most jRPGs lack C&C or character customisation (in terms of looks, gender etc.). Icewind Dale didn't have any C&C. MMORPGs don't have it either. Nor does Diablo. All of those are considered to be part of the RPG genre. GTA, in contrast, is a third-person sandbox action/adventure."
Icewind Dale and Diablo are H&S. MMO ain't RPG, it's unRPG to be honest, a simple mistake in naming. I stand for C&C as core RPG trait. What's the point of playing a role if you can't influence world and npc's aroud you?
Icewind Dale being an RPG is actually somewhat of it's own debate. And it's been had a lot. MMORPGs allow for tactical C+C a lot, as character builds are very important and you can bypass whole missions. Other than that, really more MMO than RPG.
I would not, however, consider either WoW or IWD to be anything other than RPG-lite, like Diablo. Spec Ops could have been an RPG - except it lacks so much else I talked about, (people seeing you as a result of your choices, character change, preferably positive and negative, character definition sufficient to distinguish your -character- from -yourself -, etc), AND it has very few C+C.
See, asking yourself once or twice, "what would my character do here?" does not an RPG make or, yes GTA would be touted and definable as an RPG. It should be a fairly steady question, and with varying degrees of importance. Baldur's Gate does this - Icewind Dale does not.
Vampire- Bloodlines very much has this. Vampire the Masquerade itself uses few numbers. Stats range from 1 to 5, so do skills. The game system tries to get players away from numbers and into roles. It's admirable and given the focus on Clans, Bloodlines, Humanity, Generation, Faction and so much else that drags you away from the numbers and the shooty-punchy, it does an admirable job indeed.
I can't speak to the JRPG genre - I've played few.
Icewind Dale is a tactical Real-time-with-pause RPG. And as vtmb said, H&S is an RPG sub-genre.
I think that what's being mixed up here is what you or I find important in an RPG, and what is widely accepted as an RPG in general. MMORPGs are named that way for a reason.
As a side note, if people are into (story driven) rpgs just "to influence everything" games like syndicate wars (it's old though) and the new wip called Satellite Reign might be much cooler. Definitely immediate if anything.The open world ideas you see in gta and deus ex are partly from syndies. Still, tastes
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What? No... How are those H&S, (TWD is the most absurd
)? Hack and slash seems pretty straightforward to me. You get a character, you have a ton of stats and skills, an inventory, class options. None of those games have classes or inventories, and the 'stats' in some of them lack the RPG-level of complexity and accuracy.
You get character, generic and weak story, and then you proceed to kill hords of enemies till you defet the ultimate evil guy. Come on Reptile!What? No... How are those H&S, (TWD is the most absurd
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Hell I'd say System Shock is far better RPG than any H&S ever.
We're not discussing story here, but gameplay mechanics. It's a video game, not a book. The story doesn't determine the genre, the mechanics do. It's how you get to kill those hordes, not why.
Well, when I started the thread, I suspected that everyone would have a different view. I think I may have been right :troll:
Just to make it clear, I personally value games with C&C more than others. Character customisation and the gameplay are not as important to me. What I'm trying to explain is why Lunar The Silver Star Story is part of the RPG genre while The Walking Dead isn't (i.e. if you look them up, TWD won't be listed as an RPG).
It stretches the definition to a breaking point to classify GTA and SR as RPG's. It's not just about elements present, but the degree to which those elements play a role. Dishonored and GTA occasionally giving you a choice does not mean you inhabit those characters like you do in Mass Effect or Witcher. The point in those games, broadly speaking, is in action and exploration. Choice is there about as much as exploration is in Call of Duty. Which is why we don't call Call of duty an action or sandbox game, we call it a first person shooter.
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