What types of non-human enemies can we expect in CP2077?

+
It is this reasoning that make it hard for me to take anything with zombies even remotely seriously. Not only are they one of the hackiest overdone enemies, when you remove things like intellect, creativity, tool use, etc from a human you're left with one of the least intimidating beasts on the planet. Yet somehow they are supposed to threaten the species that wipes out animal competitors on accident.

Long story short I hope the non-human enemies list does not include zombies.

What you describe about zombies also accurately describes feral humans. And humans are, at our core, pursuit predators that will not let a little thing like a 90% death rate stop us from accomplishing a goal. Think about anyone you know with military training, and then imagine them stripped of every ounce of empathy, civilized thought, or reason to let you live.

Then keep in mind that essential core allowed one species to conquer an entire planet and drive countless species, all far better adapted to it and sometimes far smarter, to extinction.

That is what the zombie menace was originally intended to represent. The common depiction of them reflects the fact that, as a species, we cannot face our darkest nature and have our civilization survive. So we lie to ourselves about it.
 
Zombies are a metaphor for consumerism run rampant. Romero saw that the drive to 'possess' was becoming out of control and that it was becoming an all consuming imperative with a larger and larger segment of the American (I guess) population. The acquisition of 'things' was becoming of importance to the exclusion of all else.

It's this single minded focus that Romero used to create the need for 'brains' in zombies.

Although that doesn't make a zombie an interesting sort of foe. Wave after wave of mindless drones is dull. They were dull in D&D and they're dull now.

Think about anyone you know with military training, and then imagine them stripped of every ounce of empathy, civilized thought, or reason to let you live.
A trained killer without empathy is a socio/pyshcopath, not a zombie. Zombies act without thought, what you're describing is someone that knows what their doing, but doesn't care, either about the results or the consequences.

In regards to humans I'll leave you with a quote from the first chapter of Dune -

"You've heard of animals chewing off a leg to escape a trap? There's an animal kind of trick. A human would remain in the trap, endure the pain, feigning death that he might kill the trapper and remove a threat to his kind."
 
A trained killer without empathy is a socio/pyshcopath, not a zombie. Zombies act without thought, what you're describing is someone that knows what their doing, but doesn't care, either about the results or the consequences.

In regards to humans I'll leave you with a quote from the first chapter of Dune -

"You've heard of animals chewing off a leg to escape a trap? There's an animal kind of trick. A human would remain in the trap, endure the pain, feigning death that he might kill the trapper and remove a threat to his kind."

You missed the "civilized thought" part. That's the difference between a psychopath and a pure animal; at their core, a psychopath still has some civilized thought.

And zombies predate Romero by centuries. He didn't invent them.
 
You missed the "civilized thought" part. That's the difference between a psychopath and a pure animal; at their core, a psychopath still has some civilized thought.

And zombies predate Romero by centuries. He didn't invent them.
That's true, but it's the Romeroesque zombie that we are most often confronted with in this day and age.
 
What you describe about zombies also accurately describes feral humans. And humans are, at our core, pursuit predators that will not let a little thing like a 90% death rate stop us from accomplishing a goal. Think about anyone you know with military training, and then imagine them stripped of every ounce of empathy, civilized thought, or reason to let you live.

Then keep in mind that essential core allowed one species to conquer an entire planet and drive countless species, all far better adapted to it and sometimes far smarter, to extinction.

That is what the zombie menace was originally intended to represent. The common depiction of them reflects the fact that, as a species, we cannot face our darkest nature and have our civilization survive. So we lie to ourselves about it.
Early humans (as well as feral ones), still have intellect. It is the human ability to analyze and use strategy to overcome the lack of physical adaptation that led to us being dangerous even before using that thinking to develop weapons. Most animals are physically better adapted to the environment and for specific tasks like hunting, but none of them are "far smarter". Neanderthals were arguably about as intelligent, and we don't really know what happened there, but most of the evidence points to a sheer numbers game because we outbred them. Zombies are humans without that problem solving intellect, sure they lack empathy or any value for life, but that just means they won't hesitate to slowly lurch mindlessly forward for them tasty braaaaaains, its not going to make them better at avoiding traps, sniper rifles, drones, being herded into a killzone, etc.

Zombies may have been originally used to depict the horror of humans without civilization, but they had to change to being about the dehumanization of consumerism because we saw too many examples showing humanity's true horror potential isn't restricted by "civilized thought" it is amplified by it. A species without the ability to contemplate power dynamics and rationalize actions might hunt another species into extinction but they aren't going to delay their enemies' extinction in order to torture or oppress them which is what civilized humans have done countless times throughout real life history. To make matters worse, when a society of humans commits atrocities we don't get to blame it on them being inhuman, zombies are literally us lying to ourselves to think that civilization is a panacea to the evils humans are capable of.

To be clear I love a good zombie movie, I'm not antizombie. Its just that zombies are less horrifying than people could ever be which is why they are pretty much just set dressing and plot convenience in the walking dead where the real antagonists are almost always other humans.
 
Early humans (as well as feral ones), still have intellect. It is the human ability to analyze and use strategy to overcome the lack of physical adaptation that led to us being dangerous even before using that thinking to develop weapons. Most animals are physically better adapted to the environment and for specific tasks like hunting, but none of them are "far smarter". Neanderthals were arguably about as intelligent, and we don't really know what happened there, but most of the evidence points to a sheer numbers game because we outbred them. Zombies are humans without that problem solving intellect, sure they lack empathy or any value for life, but that just means they won't hesitate to slowly lurch mindlessly forward for them tasty braaaaaains, its not going to make them better at avoiding traps, sniper rifles, drones, being herded into a killzone, etc.

Both the human history of expansion and the human history of warfare suggest intellect isn't actually our strong suit. We did not settle the Midwest of the U.S. by simply adapting; we settled it by throwing people at it until enough of them survived for permanent settlements to be maintained. We did the same thing with the early American colonies, the Australian settlement period, and so on. We explored using a very similar method, the throwing of bodies at it until we accomplished our goal, for much of human history; both Antarctica, Mt. Everest, the Arctic, the Sahara, North America, South America, and so on were conquered via this method.

I've seen both human warfare and human exploration described as "apply face to enemy," with a note that applying enough faces is far more effective than any clever strategy that can be devised. I think it's an exceedingly accurate description of our species; we simply stubborn nature into submission.

We're also not the only species with tool use, even creative tool use for solving complex problems; a number of primates, corvids, and other animals have been shown to utilize tools and problem solving on a level that can only, under our science, be considered human. And these are very likely not recent developments.

There's also growing evidence that we may overestimate the intelligence of both our species and Neanderthals during that period of time; a number of species around the world have shown growing intellect as a result of surviving in human cities, leading to the very real possibility it is not our intellect that caused our tool usage but our tool usage that caused our intellect. That, in effect, our entire idea of how human intelligence evolved was backwards. But, then, this wouldn't be the first area of primate evolution we had backwards.

Zombies may have been originally used to depict the horror of humans without civilization, but they had to change to being about the dehumanization of consumerism because we saw too many examples showing humanity's true horror potential isn't restricted by "civilized thought" it is amplified by it. A species without the ability to contemplate power dynamics and rationalize actions might hunt another species into extinction but they aren't going to delay their enemies' extinction in order to torture or oppress them which is what civilized humans have done countless times throughout real life history. To make matters worse, when a society of humans commits atrocities we don't get to blame it on them being inhuman, zombies are literally us lying to ourselves to think that civilization is a panacea to the evils humans are capable of.

Cats and dolphins both practice the delayed death for torture purposes and domination aspect. There's growing evidence that practice may also be standard for many primates closely related to humans; if anything, we may be the least cruel of the primates in that grouping once you look at what chimpanzees do to each other (most humans would not kill and consume someone else's child right in front of them simply to show dominance, for example).

And I could go on. There are literally millions of examples in nature that show humanity's capacity for cruelty is not only not unique, but not even exceptional. That's part of why some people are considering the possibility Earth might actually be a real-world example of a Death World; in essence, the idea that among inhabited planets we may be living on Space Australia.

But, yes, I did state the traditional idea behind zombies been watered down to it being us lying to ourselves :p

To be clear I love a good zombie movie, I'm not antizombie. Its just that zombies are less horrifying than people could ever be which is why they are pretty much just set dressing and plot convenience in the walking dead where the real antagonists are almost always other humans.

Who are still comparatively nice people. Even in the modern age, humans do far worse to each other than is depicted as humans doing to each other in zombie movies. So it still carries the lie that we are not as evil as we actually are by saying we only get as bad as depicted in those movies when there's an actual apocalypse going on. If anything, the zombie movie portrayal of how badly humans treat each other is probably the most optimistic possibility.
 
First I want to say you've got some really good points, I disagree on some of the small details and connotations, but even on those its my impression and I can't actually say you are wrong.

Both the human history of expansion and the human history of warfare suggest intellect isn't actually our strong suit. We did not settle the Midwest of the U.S. by simply adapting; we settled it by throwing people at it until enough of them survived for permanent settlements to be maintained. We did the same thing with the early American colonies, the Australian settlement period, and so on. We explored using a very similar method, the throwing of bodies at it until we accomplished our goal, for much of human history; both Antarctica, Mt. Everest, the Arctic, the Sahara, North America, South America, and so on were conquered via this method.
Being smart in relation to the animal curve is not the same as being objectively smart. Settling many of those locations (American West, most of Australia, etc) are only possible because we are smart enough to perform agriculture and such. We may have still been real dumb about it and used our relentlessness to hit the tipping point, but no amount of bodies would have made it possible if we were operating in anything other than the absolute right tail of the animal intelligence bell curve.

I've seen both human warfare and human exploration described as "apply face to enemy," with a note that applying enough faces is far more effective than any clever strategy that can be devised. I think it's an exceedingly accurate description of our species; we simply stubborn nature into submission.
I completely agree with this.

We're also not the only species with tool use, even creative tool use for solving complex problems; a number of primates, corvids, and other animals have been shown to utilize tools and problem solving on a level that can only, under our science, be considered human. And these are very likely not recent developments.
Sure, never meant to imply tool use or problem solving is unique to humans, its a bell curve and maybe corvids are a deviation further to the right than robins, and we are more to the right than any other animal we are aware of.

There's also growing evidence that we may overestimate the intelligence of both our species and Neanderthals during that period of time; a number of species around the world have shown growing intellect as a result of surviving in human cities, leading to the very real possibility it is not our intellect that caused our tool usage but our tool usage that caused our intellect. That, in effect, our entire idea of how human intelligence evolved was backwards. But, then, this wouldn't be the first area of primate evolution we had backwards.
Neuroscience backs this point up to a degree in that neurons form new connections with experience and those connections are stabilized/enforced through practice/use, so logically better than average problem solving leads to tool use, using those tools increases problem solving, ... getting a positive feedback loop. So I agree that that part of it sounds pretty sound, but its sort of a chicken vs. egg argument, those species using tools aren't doing so to experiment with agriculture or anything other than solving basic goals. There is a good chance that there is another component aside from the enhanced problem solving capacity to look at an external tool, like the ability to speculate and question, Chimps can be taught to communicate but they don't ask questions; but I'm not in this field of research take that last bit as pure speculation on my part.

Cats and dolphins both practice the delayed death for torture purposes and domination aspect. There's growing evidence that practice may also be standard for many primates closely related to humans; if anything, we may be the least cruel of the primates in that grouping once you look at what chimpanzees do to each other (most humans would not kill and consume someone else's child right in front of them simply to show dominance, for example).

And I could go on. There are literally millions of examples in nature that show humanity's capacity for cruelty is not only not unique, but not even exceptional. That's part of why some people are considering the possibility Earth might actually be a real-world example of a Death World; in essence, the idea that among inhabited planets we may be living on Space Australia.

But, yes, I did state the traditional idea behind zombies been watered down to it being us lying to ourselves :p
Yeah, nature can be super cruel and I often fall to the "harmonious mother nature" illusion, for sure we are animals and animals can really suck, thanks for checking me on that.

Who are still comparatively nice people. Even in the modern age, humans do far worse to each other than is depicted as humans doing to each other in zombie movies. So it still carries the lie that we are not as evil as we actually are by saying we only get as bad as depicted in those movies when there's an actual apocalypse going on. If anything, the zombie movie portrayal of how badly humans treat each other is probably the most optimistic possibility.
That might have more to do with the constraints of cable television than it does optimism, but again I agree that the end result is: Look at Negan, he is an evil person, who is pretty unremarkable when compared to the real life "Named Villains", but ignore that he's totally evil look he just brutally killed one of the only actually likable people on this show!

I think we disagree on a whole number of points and our reasoning, but it kind of sounds like we are in agreement that zombies would seem less threatening than a cybered-up psychotic human, and would not make a good addition to the roster of non-human enemies?
 
Zombies are bad enemies. Now if CDPR were to include uplift species I'd be all over that. If you've not read the Moreau quartet by S. Andrew Swann I suggest you check them out.

It would be really interesting to face off against a combat trained tiger or gorilla.
 
I think we disagree on a whole number of points and our reasoning, but it kind of sounds like we are in agreement that zombies would seem less threatening than a cybered-up psychotic human, and would not make a good addition to the roster of non-human enemies?

Oh, definitely! And, you have good points too. I may not agree with all of them, but who knows for certain? We both could turn out to be wrong on the areas we disagree; life has come up with stranger ;)
 
I imagine drones, the occasional wild animal and the occasional genetically-modified/cybernetically enhanced animal. Also technically, cyberpsychos as they dont see themselves as human anymore.
 
From what I have read they had different attack drones and robots in 2020 that we could fight, they had remote drones/robots as well as independent ones. Most of the robots in 2020 were more like drones, although they had some that could work independently but are still more drone than full A.I. Like the Lawtech Robohound and the AVD(Aerodyne Vehicle Drone). A few can work independently, while most can be remote controlled and have a more automated mode. Although by 2077 robots could have advanced more, and by the trailer its possible there could be more intelligent bots.

There are two types of "Cyborgs" that were considered newer tech in 2020 that would be more advanced in 2077 and would make really cool enemies.

Something considered newer in 2020 was cyberware for animals like Cyber claws/fangs, Cyber Limbs, Popup Guns&Weapon Harnesses as well as Neural Chips and other Neuralware like Smartgun Links. So by 2077 animal cyberware is probably more prevalent and it would be interesting to fight cyborg attack dogs or even something more exotic.

Last is the CSC or Combat and Security Cyberforms, CSC's are cyborg animals which are engineered from the ground up and controlled by vat grown cerebral tissue spliced together with Neuroware forming a brain called a Ceretronic Core. They are more intelligent than cyber animals and drones/robots, their ceretronic cores being able to be programmed as well being able to learn and adapt like a normal brain.

As well as being mostly being cheaper to produce than full human cyborg conversions CSC's lack the risk of cyber psychosis due to their engineering. They are programmed and trained to be disciplined and loyal and tailored to their purchaser for complete obedience. Their frames can be built in multiple forms from german shepards to tigers, sharks and even humanoid forms. Some examples are the Adrek Robotics Police Dog and the Adrek Robotics 100 series humanoid.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom