Well.... it depends... Cased ammo is pretty simple to make, it takes about 500 to a grands worth of equipment, including the powder, shells, and bullets themselves. You can save money by re-using the brass, so long as it doesn't get malformed or degraded... and you can cast your own bullets from just about any metal if you are patient enough.
Caseless ammo.... not so sure if that would even be doable from home.... the chemical bonding and sealing alone would be something of a nightmare to do small scale. Dangerous and messy.
But it seems that the whole caseless ammo fad will have disappeared in 2077 judging by the trailer, so all is good on that front.
Exactly. Sure it isn't like any numpty can just start doing it with an easy kit and expect top end ammo as a result, but if you know enough to take care and time you can end up with some good stuff, and save money to boot.
I am sure it would be cheaper than buying branded ammo over the counter, not to mention there wouldn't be a transaction log...)
Necessity being the mother of invention, I am sure the unscrupulous among the populous would find a way, even if the quality of the ammo would suffer. Where there is a will, there is someone willing to do just about anything a for a bit of cash.
That or you never know, the process may become much easier by 2077...
...but I really hope that this is the case. I hetest caseless ammo. It looks so wrong. Cased looks so much cooler.
This is really the thing, watching the brass fly is just awesome... caseless ammo just looks goofy, and I hate when movies or gamse try to sell us on it taking up less room... because from everything I have ever seen on caseless ammo, it is actually quite a bit bulkier than standard rounds. And usually either square or hexagonal... just kinda silly.
Square is less space consuming than cylindrical and the lack of metallic compound casings does reduce the weight. In principal it should take u less space and weigh less. But fuck it, I like to watch hot brass fly. Damn if it isn't satisfying.
Square is less space consuming than cylindrical and the lack of metallic compound casings does reduce the weight. In principal it should take u less space and weigh less. But fuck it, I like to watch hot brass fly. Damn if it isn't satisfying.
Square is more space efficient, but it isn't less space consuming. It also create a host of feed issues different from round ammunition.
But regardless, the single coolest image in the Matrix wasn't the kung fu or dodging bullets or any of that... it was the shot from below the helicopter as the shower of brass fell from the minigun...
Weighs less. Cheaper, after mass production.
Didn't work out. Cool idea, though. Brass is a pain in the ass to haul around and clean up afterwards.
You mean like the new "and improved", (yeah, right,) M855?
Caseless ammo while it has some nice advantages (weight, mag capacity) has some significant drawbacks as well (fouling being the primary one), why it's never been adopted into the mainstream.
Oh Wis and I are very much aware of the issues and they are just some of the reasons we dislike caseless ammo so much.
Admittedly, the fouling issues are supposed to be drastically reduced in 2020, but with no ejection port I still think it's a nightmare to work out a means of clearing jams and blockages.
Cased ammo vs Caseless ammo, Cased will always win on reliability in my book.
Ah, no. First, caseless ammo was the standard in 2020, the game. There are no reliability issues with it.
You had to go to some effort to get cased ammo in the default setting and it wouldn't work in most guns.
A good example is the ETE rules from Chrome 2, which explain that cased ammo typically only works in 20th Century guns. You can convert the weapon to cased ammo, although I cannot recall what the rules are - i think in SoF 2. But now you are using either an old gun or a converted modern one, both of which are far from common and immediately mark the weapon.
Not really the mark of a professional.
Really, just the opposite in fact... there are hundreds of thousands of 1911's out there, they aren't going anywhere. A hundred years worth of firearms is going to go away just because of the new shiney.
And there must b something wrong with caseless, because by 2077 it seems cased are once again the standard.
Not carried by the majority of professionals. Not the US Military, Euro military, not Arasaka or Militech.
You may see many 1911s around - it is a superlative firearm. How many are issued to professionals? How many are sold relative to Glock? Now, consider the case of an M14 or Thompson SMG vs an M4 or a..whatever the current top-rank SMG is. UMP? Whatever.
There are lots of WW2 era weapons around now, too. Lots and lots of bows, lots of all sorts of now-outdated weapons. Thousands of years of melee weapons and bows pretty much did go away, in any serious combat scale, by the 20th Century.
By 2020, caseless is the rule, and caseless firing weapons are the thing. You know this - it's one of the things about the core book you don't like. Mostly,a s far as I can tell, for aesthetic purposes.
They -may have- gone back to cased for 2077, again primarily for aesthetic purposes. Don't bet this will be the case forever in the real world.
I've reloaded a moderate amount, as I've said. A few thousand rounds. It takes awhile. It's inherently a clumsy process and a lot can go wrong. Even on a factory scale. Other shooters here are probably nodding, thinking of hangfires and blowback issues. When you consider the process is the same as it has been for decades, since we replaced paper cartridges, you should ask yourself, "when do we get smarter?" We will, I assure you.
I don't really care if the game has caseless ammunition or not, although it -is- a staple of the Cyberpunk 2020 setting. I'm much more hopeful that we get access to ETE, of course.
By pro, I was talking about hitmen, freelance soldiers... people who buy their own shit...
As for antique weapons continuing to be issued.... the AR-15 system is just an upgraded m16, a weapons system that has been in use since Vietnam. Plenty of US military personnel still prefer the 1911 to the m-92, or even the H&K SO-COM. Even in 2020 the Browning M2HB is still in service, and it's been around almost as long as the 1911. How long has the AK been around? It's the most widely distributed and common assault rifle in the world. Do you think they are just going to disappear? That people will stop using them?
Regardless, as Chris and I were saying, Cased is just cooler, flying brass looks cool, it sounds cool when it hits the ground. Caseless as standard for all firearms, in as little time as 30 years, was always silly. IRL it was an exciting idea, so was the gyrojet, and both faded into complete obscurity as the fad and passing fancy they were.
9d10 will ruin your day.... every time....
The first metal cartridge was developed in 1845 by a Frenchman. By 1870, metal cartridges had become the standard over paper cartridges, which had been in use since the 1500s. 25 years from invention to standard.
People will stop using the mentioned weapons when better weapons are available, yes. The M4 is better than the M-16. The AK47 will no doubt be around forever, but since in 2020 caseless is the standard, rounds are getting harder to find for it, unlike the FN-RAL, for example, which is lighter to boot or the Militech Ronin. Hey, it's the Future, it'd be nice not to see AK-47s everywhere.
I remain unconvinced metal-cased cartridges are the future, but we'll see if we go caseless or something like an organic casing. Flying brass is annoying as hell, distracting when it bounces off you and a pain to pick up. After a suppressor, I want a brass-catcher. Again, this is from a shooter perspective and not a cinematic perspective. I know plenty of shooters who agree with you, but few handload or shoot seriously.
What -is- the damage on a .50 BMG? 20mm EHI is 4d10 +6 but armour is 1/4, damage is not, making it equal to 16D10+24..
50 BMG is 12.7 mm...I used to know this. Isn't that a base 9 or 10D6? IIRC, D10 damage weapons typically at least 1/2 SP and keep penetrating damage, so would 50 BMG be 6D10 or 10D6?
Then you ETE it....so 9D10? 15D6?
Yikes.