When dealing with the cyberpsychos EMP grenades would make the most sense.. (Perhaps his exoskeleton protects him from EMP, that was a thing, right?)
Well the radius of an EMP grenade is pretty small, about equal to that of a regular frag grenade...
He does not seem to be wearing an exoskeleton. He is wearing kind of a goofy helmet, and some type of armor under his jumpsuit, either really slim metal gear of some type, or more likely he is full conversion as well with a flesh face plate...
For some reason i have always assumed that he was wearing some kind of light exoskeleton under his jumpsuit.. (or at least some kind of full body armor) I mean, if he was a fullborg, why would he need that strange helmet with all those lenses? Maybe because style..
What makes EMP grenades more dangerous is that you can survive a grenade blast less than five meters radius (without any protection, even the shock may kill you, but with all the armor and other gear you have in this game, you have a big chance of surviving) but I'm pretty sure same cannot be said for EMP, if you are anywhere near the blast radius, your cybernetics will get shut down.. (I assume thats the case anyway)
So is EMP shielding too expensive, or ineffective?
If you depended on cybernetics and lived in a world where EMP grenades were common, I would have expected it to be high on the priority list for upgrades, and essential for any cybernetics where a failure would be life-ending.
(It was always something that annoyed me in DX:HR, that they had the technology to build those dirty great box-bots, but didn't spend the extra money to shield them. It was stupid that you could take them out with a single, very inexpensive and common-place EMP grenade)
If you depended on cybernetics and lived in a world where EMP grenades were common, I would have expected it to be high on the priority list for upgrades, and essential for any cybernetics where a failure would be life-ending.
(It was always something that annoyed me in DX:HR, that they had the technology to build those dirty great box-bots, but didn't spend the extra money to shield them. It was stupid that you could take them out with a single, very inexpensive and common-place EMP grenade)
Keep in mind the trailer wasn't exactly going to be true to the PnP. The shape, sure, but not the nitty gritty. Two cool cyborgs were in it. After that, whatever rationale you like may be applied.
Skin weave shrugs off lots of glancing rifle hits. It was pretty much the definition of a minimum-damage hit. Point is, a 5.56 does 5D6 damage. roll 5-10 and it won't come close to penetrating standard skinweave. Roll average damage of 18 or so and only a few points will get through - mostly bad bruising or shallow puncture after Toughness.
They've never really covered how skinweave gets punctured, although that's not my idea of how it would work. More like skin-kevlar. I don't think she had skinweave, though. She's a FCB.
As we both know, Wisdom, there is no flesh face plate for FCBs, unless you count the Gemini. I think she was a Gemini, or whatever CDPR would call a disguised FCB.
I don't think the guy was a FCB. No real reason to think he is as opposed to someone with body plating. He could be, I just don't see any evidence for it.
Edit: watching again, his face just seems much more real than hers. Reflections, I think. Hers is ExoDerm and he's the real thing. Once I grasp a RED dev in my limbs, I'll ask clearly.
Shielding against EMP for Full Conversion Borgs costs 2000 eb and, iirc 2D6 humanity? Pretty cheap compared to FCB prices and invaluable in the field. For regular cyberware it costs...have to look this up...300 eb and 1 HC for a limb. Yeah. I always have it. Chris can vouch for that at least in his campaign.
EMP grenades are 200-400 eb and rare.
Both Techtronica weapons which fry you and your cyberware are also rare, but they do work. at Point Blank range, the 3500 eb rifle version forces you to make a DeathSave. If you -make- it, you are rendered unconscious for 2D6x 30 minutes! Ahah! At farther ranges, it merely forces stun saves galore. Hilarious weapon.
Skin weave shrugs off lots of glancing rifle hits. It was pretty much the definition of a minimum-damage hit. Point is, a 5.56 does 5D6 damage. roll 5-10 and it won't come close to penetrating standard skinweave. Roll average damage of 18 or so and only a few points will get through - mostly bad bruising or shallow puncture after Toughness.
They've never really covered how skinweave gets punctured, although that's not my idea of how it would work. More like skin-kevlar. I don't think she had skinweave, though. She's a FCB.
As we both know, Wisdom, there is no flesh face plate for FCBs, unless you count the Gemini. I think she was a Gemini, or whatever CDPR would call a disguised FCB.
I don't think the guy was a FCB. No real reason to think he is as opposed to someone with body plating. He could be, I just don't see any evidence for it.
Edit: watching again, his face just seems much more real than hers. Reflections, I think. Hers is ExoDerm and he's the real thing. Once I grasp a RED dev in my limbs, I'll ask clearly.
Shielding against EMP for Full Conversion Borgs costs 2000 eb and, iirc 2D6 humanity? Pretty cheap compared to FCB prices and invaluable in the field. For regular cyberware it costs...have to look this up...300 eb and 1 HC for a limb. Yeah. I always have it. Chris can vouch for that at least in his campaign.
EMP grenades are 200-400 eb and rare.
Both Techtronica weapons which fry you and your cyberware are also rare, but they do work. at Point Blank range, the 3500 eb rifle version forces you to make a DeathSave. If you -make- it, you are rendered unconscious for 2D6x 30 minutes! Ahah! At farther ranges, it merely forces stun saves galore. Hilarious weapon.
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The problem with EMP shielding is mass and bulk.
You can shield anything against you want against any level of EMP, but it won't be portable, even by a semi tractor trailer.
"Realistic" shielding could maybe reduce the effective "kill" radius of an EMP weapon by say 50% (remember your physics 101; the power of the pulse is inversely proportional to the radius of the effect). But flat-out immunity ... not.
You can shield anything against you want against any level of EMP, but it won't be portable, even by a semi tractor trailer.
"Realistic" shielding could maybe reduce the effective "kill" radius of an EMP weapon by say 50% (remember your physics 101; the power of the pulse is inversely proportional to the radius of the effect). But flat-out immunity ... not.
Solo Of Fortune 2 Page 69 - Dummy facemasks - while they do not specifically say synthetic flesh is an option, there is no reason to think it wouldn't be as the technology certainly exists.
And thats pretty much how it works... EMP grenades are low powered... while the EMP rifle will straight up eat thourgh shielding, and could end up kiling you even if you have no metal in your body at all...
They are also very effective against pursuing vehicles...
They do mention some of this in talking about EMP grenades, albeit not for limb or FCB shielding. Given my lack of a physics doctorate and the Cpunk's willingness to allow man-portable energy cannon as well as flying powered armour that can kill main battle tanks, I don't have much problem pretending they put a lot of effort into finding a way to effectively shield against a strong EM pulse. Maybe a shutdown-reboot sequence? Maybe some kind of fibre-optic/crystal matrix? I dunno.
Well, the tech to make a cyberarm look sort-of real. Diff 20 to spot, I think? Whereas the tech to make a Gemini look Diff 30 to spot is very expensive and specific to that model.
In game balance terms, you remember skinweave, which is much weaker than a faceplate and facemask, can still be spotted at Diff 20 for only SP 12, iirc. I can't see synthskin as real-looking as the guy sports being part of anything less than a Gemini and if that's the case, why does he have cyberarms and torsoplate?
Your game, of course, but I've never allowed facemasks to be anything other than style choices, discernable as non-human with either a glance or at worst a more determined look. Wiring n all those facial nerves, sweat, oil..no. Gemini only.
Edit: just reviewed that bit on facemasks. Yeah, definitely cosmetic, simple masks and if you don't get an armoured one, your face isn't armoured. MORE IMPORTANTLY,
OMG I reread panzerfaust. How ridiculous. Super accurate with strikes, kicks, Dodge, Grapple. Damage is 1.5 times MA level. And this super-art was recently invented as opposed to perfected after hundreds of years?
Utterly ridiculous. Cool name, though.
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I hope that developers will go along a way paved by todays reality (decreased caliber, decreased size, decreased weight, increased mobility and ergonomic), maybe it's not exactly in CP spirit but right now EVERY fricking game is about submasinguns the sise of a truck firing nuke tipped 16 inch shells, with chain plasma sword add on. Most guns that made into cyberpunk 2020 wouldn't make into reality because they would be plain useless. And I hope that there would be a limit to how many pieces the character can carry and it would be nice if you couldn't holster a minigun in some kind of time and space capsule as it is common in all games but Mass Effect.
I. Robocop
2. Don't need to really have facial nerves, sweat, oil.... it's just a face, flesh colored rubber stretched over the face of the borg... I am at worka nd can't watch the video, but I do not recall his expression changing all that much...
3. The real reason I think he is a borg is 2-fold. A) the neck armor, it's really thin and tight if it's just something he is wearing, but it looks like myomar muscle cords to me... and B) why would anyone wear a jumpsuit over metal gear? That's just silly.
1. A prototype, one-of-a-kind super-expensive project...and the face is so Peter could act. Also a movie, not Cyberpunk 2020. You also want his nearly-infinite-ammunition superpistol in game?
2. I watched it. Her face is what you describe - immobile - and a pretty high quality. You do need those things I mention, or it's pretty obviously a mask. A/N 10 up close, 15 at up to 10 meters I'd say. His face doesn't change expression, but it has much more detail, hairs, etc. Again, there is nothing in SoF2 implying that you can use a dummy facemask to fake being human looking. Again again, if you could, why bother with Gemini and it's reduced capabilities?
3.Neck armour is plating. I think he's in a torso plate/body plating with cyberlimbs. I don't think he's FCB, though. Jumpsuit is a uniform thing and to conceal his crazy borgness. You know why wearing a jumpsuit over MG is a good idea.
We should find a way to play together sometime. I think the arguments would be...wait for it...something dairy. Yes.
Not that we disagree on the big things here, just a couple minor details.
On a Robocop note, EVERYtime I see it I want to play an Enforcement FCB, preferably first in service. So cool.
Because it's just a mask, to give the borg a face he can relate to, to help him feel like himself... as opposed to looking in the mirror and seeing a toaster staring back at him... I could see it having therapeutic value, even if it's not going to fool anyone. A gemini is made to look actually human, the whole body, it sweats, bleeds, chest rises and falls as it breathes, it bruises, etc... it's meant to be undetectable to all but the most trained eye... or any scanner it walks through or near... but a simple faceplate isn't going to fool anyone but the owner.
A cops metal gear is itself a uniform... unless for some reason eh is wearing person metal gear, either way I would think the jumpsuit would just tend to get in the way. Plus, the body has lit up bits all over it. Standard metal gear would have that, and if it's just been equipped with sensors and what not, then him cruising around without any kind of filtration mask makes even less sense. And if thats plating on his neck than thats some thin ass stuff, how effective could it be? And if he isn't a borg, then why woul he need to conceal his crazy borgness? Huh... answer that one smarty pants...
Yes.... yes we should....
I heart you too...
Robocop 1 and 2 followed by AD Police Files Episode 3.... and holy crap I want to rain metal death on something....
Yeah, the dummy facemasks in SoF 2 have no Humanity value. Which..you know...why -don't- certain augments have a Humanity improvement? I barely recall a gadget or two that might....some kind of drug dispenser or something? But why isn't this a whole category? Balance reasons? Anyway. Faceplate of synthskin, I think, would look worse than a machine plate. You'd look like a mannequin or zombie. Maybe high-quality stuff like the woman has. Which beggars the question: why not use the same tech they do for Mr. Studd on faces and limbs to disguise them?
Anyway, as to the thickness, we have crazy-thin armours coming along. You yourself posted the spider-silk integration. Nanotubes are on the way, too. You'd want something thin so as not to get the Bale-Batman effect. Spend more on the neck and face plates to get the same SP as the torso, cheaper on the more primitive torso plate.
You conceal every advantage you have, if you are a pro. Especially a borg-hunting pro, who might have to stalk his prey in some pretty crowded areas. Hell, I was him, I'd wear chameleon gear.
We really need to get some kind of session where the PCs play C-Swat Ops old and new hunting in the streets of Night City. So many tricks to teach. Remember that one story about the Exec who went Psycho and booby-trapped the building in Interface? caught everyone with their pants down, since Max-Tac didn't have him on any watch list and he had few implants. Low starting Emp, though...
THIS is why I despise the character Adam Smasher so much. The most prominent R.tal FCB should be someone cool, someone interesting and deadly. Adam is just a bully with a performance complex. He's every moron Soldier of Fortune subscriber who couldn't cut it in the actual Forces and instead dreams of murderous glory from some kind of gutless overwhelming advantage over his opponents.
Disappoint. I, too, want to rain metal death from time to time, but Adam just taints the whole idea. And as Morgan's opposite number...no. Just no. R.Tal should have tried for the dynamic you see in Heat , between De Niro and Pacino's characters. Something with punch and depth. Not..what we got.
I think may end up having to just agree to disagree... or not... on the cop being a borg...
However... A C-SWAT campaign IS something I MIGHT be interested in running online...
No, no. I THINK the cop is a borg. Absolutely. Heavy replacement.
I just don't think he's a full conversion borg. Bodyplate and both arms, maybe a skullplate. His face, that stubble, I think his lips are peeling a bit...just not perfect enough. I dunno.
She's probably an FCB. Her face and lips are just too smooth and reflect wrong.
RED guys know but won't tell us. Those bastards.
Also, YOU running it? Pretty sure it was MY idea.
I just don't think he's a full conversion borg. Bodyplate and both arms, maybe a skullplate. His face, that stubble, I think his lips are peeling a bit...just not perfect enough. I dunno.
She's probably an FCB. Her face and lips are just too smooth and reflect wrong.
RED guys know but won't tell us. Those bastards.
Also, YOU running it? Pretty sure it was MY idea.
Fuckiknow. Let's see how many campaigns I have in stall mode because People and Lives: 3 right now. Technically 4, but SLA is waaay stalled. One Vampire, one Dark Heresy and one Cyberpunk 2020. Siiigh. I need to clone players.