Next gen console features haven't been released yet. CDPR was very clear about this before the release. Next generation console features will be available as free update at Q4 / 2021 according roadmap posted here.
For your first point, it's been done before. On current gen consoles too. It was something to marvel at when God of War 4 did it. No loading screens and no camera cuts at all. It was impressive and it proved that games with no loading screens were definitely possible. 3 years ago.
As for your second point, I can clearly remember at least one game that's done that before, I just can't remember which game it was in so I can't really argue that point.
As a side note, I gotta say, out of all the moderators, it's a blast having you around. You actually engage the community on a regular basis.
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Sure, the next-gen version of the console version. Which means next-gen graphics that the current consoles can't handle. If there are next-gen features coming, it's possible on PC right now.
If they're not ready, at least, for PC right now can you really claim your game is next-gen?
Not on PS4. There are a lot of loading screens between scenes in the main missions or sidequests. I believe these loading screens are on PC and other platforms too, just take less time.
Its the same like in the Witcher 3 + this Javi system that's supposed to match the audio with their face movement, but on PS4 it bugs out and mismatch 90% of the time.
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+you can move during the "cutscene"(talking to other character) but 90% its useless to move around and its definitely not a next gen feature - at least for me
also i didnt even expect next gen features on PS4 but the game could have been done better nonetheless
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There is no definitive feature in context to define next generation PC. For consoles definition is very clear.
See, that I didn't even know. Which makes my point about God of War 4 having no loading screens even on base PS4 even more relevant.
It's quite different. God of War, and The Last of Us (they basically work the same) work around the slow loading times of the PS4 by inserting dialog sequences and cutscenes while loading different assets. It's just so well crafted and blended into your gameplay and narrative experience that you don't notice at all what's happening, but I guess those dialog sequences / cutscenes could be called loading screens. Santa Monica and Naughty Dog share some same designs and some developers go back and forth between those two studios so it's no wonder they work the same. What they're doing is just pure magic as far as technical implementation goes.
Here's an indepth example of how a level of The last of Us 2 works around the technical difficulties. A level designer who worked on the musem level of Part II explains how they managed to do it (technical bits start at 02:00 and afterwards on the video ; at the 11:35 mark he starts explaining the loading gates they have in the game and how they load assets. Note that it took the designers and devs 2 whole years just to render the museum level in that game... which shows the amount of work needed for something that was probably played by most players in a few minutes without really noticing all the work) :
In the case of CP, the technology is different as it doesn't have cutscenes or such. Especially when you're riding as a passenger in a car and you see the city flawlessly loading around you while some dialog is also going on. This is something quite incredible and I totally understand how difficult it might be for them to work around the technical limitations of old gen consoles which are HDD based.
PS : I know we're on a CDPR forum, but I can't wait to see what those ND magicians will be able to pull off with the new techs available to them through the new gen consoles.
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You're missing the point. It's not about PC, it's about the game.
If you have features/systems that can be qualified as a next-generation feature/system that requires the extra juice the new consoles have, then why couldn't you just release them on PC? PCs are already more powerful than the new console generation.
At least the game could qualify as next-gen on PC. If those features aren't ready for PC, which was apparently finished a long time ago, then can you really claim your game is a next-gen game?
I played GoW, however I don't think it was as seamless as CP2077, it did have moments of cutscenes, when it took control away from the player. It was also not open-world game, maybe I should have added that to my description. Games like GoW are very scripted experiences.
Again, open world, dialogue & quest heavy action adventure(not to use RPG so that we don't start THAT discussion)? Can't remember anything similar to CP2077 in this regard.
Thanks, wish I had more time to engage! However, mod duties prevent me from doing that as often as I would like to.
It definitely could qualify based on how it takes advantage of latest ray-tracing features. There's no however, such industry standard as "next generation PC".
In console space there's very clear differences between generations based on technical specs. Say HD / 4k and 30/60fps are very distinctively different features available on different console generations. Next generation game, in context of hardware means that game takes advantage of next generation hardware features.
I'm not arguing they're vastly different games utilizing very different system. Nor am I saying that it's not impressive in it's own right. The back end systems are not what the average user will notice though.
I'm gonna throw Gregsky's new post in since my next sentence is relevant to it.
You're both right, it wasn't completely seamless the way CP2077 is but it was 3 years ago too.
A more apt comparison would be Horizon: Zero Dawn. Completely open world (once you reach a certain point) and 95% seamless. Except some very specific "dungeon" type areas, was completely seamless and I'm pretty sure it's only because it was limited by the PS4 hardware. Back then it was an amazing feat of technology.
Furthermore, if what @Crusher93 is saying is true then it means their streaming tech isn't even on par with what was done previously with the same hardware. At least not yet.
I have a clear image of a game in third person perspective that did that. I just can't remember what it was.
No worries, I'm sure we can all appreciate it.
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You're making it all about graphics.
Again, I doubt you'll find a majority agreeing that graphics alone make a game worthy of the next generation game title.
One thing that I have always appreciated in industry standards, is that opinions don't matter. My experience has been, that it makes a lot of things possible.
Hm, I think we have bits of information in the "Our commitment to quality" video they released. They talk about how they couldn't cheat the same way they did with the Witcher 3 because the world was much more vertical and compact, thus the assets which need to be loaded are way bigger than what they had to stream in the Witcher 3, or in any flat natural landscape based game basically.
When you only have mountains, grass, trees, and when on top of that half of your screen is filled by the sky, which is already a lower texture memory wise, you can work around some technical limitations.
But when you're right in the middle of the City Center of Night City, there isn't any sky or horizon line, everything is made of complex textures. So you can't really cheat and reduce the number of trees visible, or count on the fact the sky fills half the screen of the player and makes the overall loading easier.
I suppose we can agree on the visual aspect of it, but as mentioned before it blends into gameplay as it impacts the way you interact with the world and that magical word called immersion which in turn impacts the gameplay.
Now I could be wrong here, but I think I remember the devs mentioning that they were struggling with the streaming engine and how adaptable it was regarding different platforms so I think this is a byproduct bug resulting from that and I hope it gets fixed as it annoys me greatly
.I don't see anything wrong with that statement in the literal definition of things, if your 16bit game on PS5 was only available on PS5 then it makes it, literally, a next gen game haha.
On the flip side, the Demon's Souls remake which is only available on PS5 which could in all honestly run perfectly well on a PC which doesn't really have generations per se, but, for the sake of argument, if you put that game on the PC does it stop being a next-gen game?
I'd love for that to be true, but based on CDPR's track history that was a pipe dream, I expected jank and I got jank, the best kind
. But I also find it quite fun.
There is no doubt a lot of limitations with the way the city was built. Making it all seamless was/is certainly a challenge. They had a hard time cheating like they did in TW3 but my guess is it's because it's a fairly inexperienced team, not because it can't be done.
I'm trying to find a video of Horizon: Zero Dawn that explained how they managed to create the world they did and make it so seamless and create those beautiful vistas where you could see details from so far away. It basically amounted to "if your camera isn't facing it, it basically doesn't exist". The streaming tech behind that game was amazing 4 years ago. Even in densely populated area (1 area) it worked flawlessly.
Unfortunately I'm at work and quite a few sites are blocked, including Youtube, so I'm having a hard time finding it. I'll try remembering to post it later on.
It could also run on 20 years old generation hardware old though
I wouldn't even call it a next-gen game already. It's a better looking Demon's Souls that's available on next-gen consoles but as far as next-generation content and features? Not at all.
To elaborate on this, no, I wouldn't say an actual next-gen game stops being next-gen because it switches to a system that doesn't have a next-gen. I guess you could make an argument with PCs being next gen when you start buying next-gen hardware for it but that's irrelevant to my point.
A next-gen game is about the game itself, not the system it is being played on. Back when CP2077 was first being touted as the next generation of RPGs, the PS5 and Xbox series X weren't even announced. A game can be "the next generation" while staying on the same systems. Something that's part of a new generation of games, that advances the genre or the medium as a whole. Those games are few and far between and I can't say I consider CP2077 to be one of them.
I'd love for that to be true, but based on CDPR's track history that was a pipe dream, I expected jank and I got jank, the best kind
But I also find it quite fun.
Can't say I disagree on both statements.
No worries, if you find something interesting later make sure to put it, I'm always eager to see how things are made behind the curtain
That sounds "nice"
Well, in a dark way.I never unterstand why they make such a hype about the city in the game, been all unforgiving, hard and so on. For me it was just a scenery in the background, not dangerous at all.
The whole ''next-gen'' debacle is arguing semantics so I was just following suit, a bit of unadulterated fun
.As for moving the whole genre forward, I like that outlook it makes a lot of sense.
And in some respect I think Cyberpunk achieves that in strides, the characters themselves feel like real people (micro expressions, body language etc.) I really haven't experienced anything like that as seamlessly as I have in Cyberpunk.
Reminds me of Half-Life 2 in that respect.
Also I find the more personal story and V's interactions with Johnny exquisite in it's depth and subtlety.
How V slowly turns into Johnny or how they try to reject their transformation by literally acting like Johhny, it's amazing and sublime.
A staple in story-telling for me.
Also the way they created Night City is another thing, you can clearly see the layers of evolution in it's architecture, old buildings being encompassed by newer brutalistic architecture, roads over roads and very little vegetation or nature in general.
It's foreboding (similar to City 17 but in a much more advanced state and on a grander scale).
If you have the time I'd recommend watching these:
I think it's revolutionary in many ways that don't generally correlate with gameplay and I'm fine with that.
No worries, if you find something interesting later make sure to put it, I'm always eager to see how things are made behind the curtain
It's not the documentary that I wanted to find itself. I just can't seem to find it anymore and I can't find spend my whole evening on trying to find it but I have the next best thing!
Which is a the making of Horizon video. I believe I've seen it posted around here at some point. Anyway.
At 43:40 they actually mention the documentary and touch on what I spoke about. The documentary itself went into greater details and I wish I could find it. If you do have the time to sit through the entire thing it's a seriously interesting video.
It's incredible to see the work and processes that went into what is, IMO, one of the best and most unique games of the last decade. Guerrilla Games studio, like CDPR, created a game in a genre they were completely unfamiliar with, to a much greater level too. In my opinion at least.
a bit of unadulterated fun
I wish all conversations here could be about just that lol. Wishful thinking, I know.
I had already seen the architect's review and the only reason I watched it, and enjoyed it, is because of it's architect spin on it.
The other video, with respect, I have no intention of watching in it's entirety. I try to steer clear of youtube reviews in general unless they bring some kind of unique perspective (like the architect's) to the table. I skimmed through it and it doesn't seem like it does.
As far as the city's design goes, I totally agree. It's a city designed like none other before. It's beautiful and as far as how it looks I agree that it's definitely next-gen. That's just graphics though. Graphics alone cannot turn a game into a next-gen RPG. Could it be explored to a far greater degree and filled with stuff worthy of exploration, it might be far more worthy of the title.
Heck mega buildings, which were supposed to be smaller cities inside a bigger city, won't let you explore more than 1 or 2 floors at best and are mostly devoid of anything else than brain dead NPCs aimlessly wandering around. That's only for the mega buildings you actually can enter.
It's eye-candy but it's not something I'd consider worthy of the a next-gen RPG title as it stands.
As far as animation go, again, very much eye-candy but very surface level stuff. Also not something that I think truly distinguishes CP2077 from other games in recent memory. The Last of Us 2 had some gorgeous mo-capped animations that truly brought it's characters to life.
Make no mistake, I generally enjoy the game despite it's shortcomings but I can't see it as a next-gen RPG in it's current state.
A shame you won't give the second video a chance as it delves deep into the themes presented in the game in a way that makes the apocalypse mundane and marketable and it's serious implications on current world politics, it's actually incredible.
The way they implement the themes in the game I find revolutionary as well, because it's presented in a non gamey way it's not making a big deal out of them, the state of the universe is not on the verge and your this super-awesome random person to save it all.
The Apocalypse just happens and we're all along for the ride going through our daily struggles.
Quite fascinating.
As for The Last of Us, it's a linear game with amazing animations in scripted cutscenes, quite a difference to an open world game with dynamic dialogue offering a similar quality animation, I think it does indeed revolutionize the open world RPGs in that respect.
Also I find the dynamic class system quite revolutionary in how adaptive it is and what a large quantity of quite impressive and effective builds you can have.
The whole game is tailored towards a large variety of builds akin to Deus Ex but on a much broader scale, I think it's revolutionary as well (would be more apparent if the AI reacted accordingly).
Anyway, we can agree to disagree on other aspects, but it sure damn looks nice which alone could be next-gen
.Cheers.
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The cover mechanics are revolutionary, fight me
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To be completely honest, that's a concept that puzzles me.
If you don't have a working copy of a game two years prior to its release, then wait until you have a working copy of it.
Sure, by showing it 2 years earlier, people have more time to talk to each other and find the demo on the net but at the same time, 2 years is also enough for those who were thinking "Maybe" to forget and the difference of quality between the demo and the final product will assurably (exactly as it did here) cause discontent which can lead to bad opinion/boycott of the company, refunds, people refraining from byuing the game after Day 1 when they find out that the demo wasn't faithful enough to what they shown....
I don't know, if you think of it as a whole, I think it would have been a better call (even from a business stand point) to release a demo 6 months before launch, instead of making up a half fake demo and give a feeling of being robbed to the players once they find out (on top of wasting some precious developpement time on the actual game).
This method has been prooved to be flawed multiple times in the past by game companies that got severe backlash in return, I'm kinda baffled to see that some developpers still go for that crap.
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