What would Fix the game for you?

[Arachnarok_Rider]

It sounds like you just didn't like the game or its concept.

I like a fair few things about the game, but a lot of things were not executed as well as they could have been, and sure, that annoys the heck out of me.

That said, is there any of the points above I listed that you actually disagree with? I'm happy to elaborate, but I don't want to throw a wall of text into a topic for no reason.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

What would fix the game for you?

- wholly redone charactersystems (less focus on combat and more focus on interactivity),
- a substantial increase in interactivity between the gameworld and said systems (because right now they’re next to nonexistent),
- unvoiced main character,
- less railroaded main story

 

[CS554]

View attachment 11322176

To me, this is jarring. It would be more believable if these prosthetics looked more natural. If this girl worked as a bartender in a Maelstrom hangout, the case would be different. To you it might not be.

Never saw that combination, but could happen. Still, in context what I wrote earlier and some other information provided in game, let's say she's not a random victim in gang shooting.

Do waitresses sit all day, or are they mostly on their legs?
I can think number of reasons for cybernetic arm too.

I imagine that with randomization it can happen extreme cases like that. But it might make sense in the context of Night City and the world.

For me it absolutely did.

Maybe some waitress would decide it's a good idea to amputate her real legs just because her work conditions are tiring, but she probably wouldn't decide to replace them with steel struts, no? It's probably reasonable to believe she could easily have gotten away with using a discrete exoskeleton. Those implants would have a massive impact on her personal life. Take 1 minute and think about how it would be living day-to-day with those steel legs. It's just too far out there in terms of realism.

What I'm talking about is what these aesthetic elements make me feel and how that impacts on my experience playing the game. If others opinion and tastes differ, then fine. That's their prerogative. I don't see any reason to go on about how my opinion is wrong "according to lore". That's just pointless bickering.

No, it's exactly how it's supposed to be. One way sum up the cyberpunk genre is "high tech, low life". Your observation of impact to quality of life is absolutely spot on target, also your question about why? What you are missing is the answer. So, let's think of that a bit.

Takemura and Oda for example, even if they are in the end expendable, they have major corpo backing them up. V can get way better arms and legs cyberware, because V is earning pretty well as edgerunner. Waitress, factory worker, common citizens in general, they aren't making anywhere that much money. They buy what they can afford and even that might be on down payment.

Something that really got my attention were number of citizens that appeared to have issues with their cyberware. Holding their arm, bad posture, which is to show that not only they aren't getting anywhere near A-class cyberware, but they also had issues with them and with stuff like that, it's not like human tissue that heals, they need very specialized service and that doesn't come free either.

To get back to quality of life things, aesthetics... but frankly thinking human interaction on sexual level, their only options may have the Moxes, Joy toys and Braindances, latter being another method for corps to profit from them.

Cyberpunk dystopia.

Good response:

There's some ambient world-building on it, though, that I did think was pretty good.

1. Konpecki Plaza has all of its employees upgraded to being chrome skin bodies that "match" and you have to wonder what sort of contract you have to get into for that since it's not a costume but literally having your skin replaced.
2. The cyberpsycho quests include a guy who can't afford to have the kind of immunosuppressants needed to keep his wharf job for his cybernetics so he's turned to street drugs that are now being upped charge wise.
3. Another guy goes nuts because he's had too much of his body replaced with increasing cybernetics to try to stay ahead of his bills as a construction worker.
4. US Cracks had their eyes replaced because Kiroshi is their sponsor even if it makes them look a trifle...odd.

5. GIG: Severance Package. Scan the "robots" at manufacturing floor.

There are tons of things in game and depending of players goals and how they abstract things is taking scenario where system is practically anarco-capitalistic to logical consequences. Delivery by means of show, don't tell is excellent in game intellectually. Player doesn't need to have previous knowledge of genre but to make observations.

 

[CTPhipps]

5. GIG: Severance Package. Scan the "robots" at manufacturing floor.

There are tons of things in game and depending of players goals and how they abstract things is taking scenario where system is practically anarco-capitalistic to logical consequences. Delivery by means of show, don't tell is excellent in game intellectually. Player doesn't need to have previous knowledge of genre but to make observations.

Part of this is seems to be that the players sometimes think cyberware is meant to be "cool" and "expensive" but for many Night City people it's just another function of the system enslaving people into literal tools.

Post automatically merged: Oct 1, 2022

It is not easy to answer the question asked in a reasonable amount of text. The way I see it, the game suffers from a number of problems and fixing any one of them in isolation does not lead to the game being what it should be.

In my opinion, the problems include:

1. The game does not appear to really know what it wants to be, with elements from all over the place but delivering little depth in any particular area.
2. The actual characters are almost all static and the dynamic spawns are meaningless ghosts with no footprint and no meaningful interaction.
3. Exploration suffers because of a lack of meaningful finds. Items outdate rapidly and there are pretty much no interesting characters to meet nor any cool random events. Finding shards could be something if you could do anything with the info, but you cannot.
4. As a consequence of the above, the city is beautiful but it fels so lifeless and empty.
5. The variety of activities in the gameplay loop does not take equivalence grouping into consideration.
6. There is a nearly complete lack of impact from any action taken.
7. The main story is a bit hamfisted, not to everyone's taste, and it is not that hard to get tired of it. But it's so hard to mute it and just live in the world of Cyberpunk.

There isn't any one thing that fixes all of these issues. It's a long, slow process of rethinking the concept and getting everything tuned properly. And I cannot imagine that CDPR care to do that for CP77. Just not enough revenue left in the product to justify that much redevelopment.

1. I'd argue the game very much knows what it wants to be and that is the tragic story of a Edgerunner facing death. It's actually arguably TOO much focused on this and doesn't allow enough choice because they want to keep to this theme.
2. I'm not sure what you mean by "static" characters.
3. The game seems designed very much with the idea of doing Crafting and Upgrades.
4. I'm not sure what people could actually think would make it "lifelike" though since the map is utterly dominated with crimes happening constantly. How much exactly does it take in terms of activities to do it?
5.I'm not sure what equivalence grouping is.
6. I actually think the fact that the Endings are dependent on Side Quests is interesting. It does after all give you endings based on what you did and didn't do.
7. Well that is a function of 1#

Aiming a bit lower, what would make the game significantly more enjoyable, I would say this:

• Allow players to unselect active quest and just roam without a selected quest. Should be simple enough.
• Fix the mess of an inventory. If we're going to have to deal with this many items then at least make it less aggravating to work with.
• More variety of enemies. Right now there's just humans, drones, and a very rare bot. From an action game perspective, it's not really enough.
• Add repeatable big encounters. Some of the best times I've had in this game was when I thought I was killing 3 goons and suddenly I was fighting 15 angry 'bangers. That's fun. But then you clear the encounter and when respawn kicks in then there's just 3 goons.
• Tone down the over-level bonuses and the under-level penalties. As it is, finding good encounters is not just about location but also about being at the right level and at high levels there's just not many fun things to do that actually feel dangerous.

Some thoughts on my end:

* I'd also like to add that I hate the fact the Shard folders are open by default. I would love to be able to close them for ease of navigation. I also think more folders like NCPD Side Hustles, Gigs, and so on would be even better.

* I also feel like you should have the option of turning off V getting sick and coughing as well as the screen getting wavy toward the end.

* The ability to respec Attribute points.

* I think we have a wide variety of enemies in the gangs, it's just this isn't the sort of game where you kill dogs.

- wholly redone charactersystems (less focus on combat and more focus on interactivity),
- a substantial increase in interactivity between the gameworld and said systems (because right now they’re next to nonexistent),
- unvoiced main character,
- less railroaded main story

So, "not Cyberpunk 2077 the game about a violent edgerunner."

I also will sadly fight you over the VA that I find to be incredible from both actors.

 

[CS554]

Part of this is seems to be that the players sometimes think cyberware is meant to be "cool" and "expensive" but for many Night City people it's just another function of the system enslaving people into literal tools.

Indeed.

I never thought retro futuristic approach could be used such a manner we see in game, how it contributes to world building way beyond something superficial.

 

[r4iled]

stable 60 fps on xsx will fix this game for me. Even with that massive bugs i've noticed after 8 hours on new console. This patch is broken.

 

[Arachnarok_Rider]

1. I'd argue the game very much knows what it wants to be and that is the tragic story of a Edgerunner facing death. It's actually arguably TOO much focused on this and doesn't allow enough choice because they want to keep to this theme.
2. I'm not sure what you mean by "static" characters.
3. The game seems designed very much with the idea of doing Crafting and Upgrades.
4. I'm not sure what people could actually think would make it "lifelike" though since the map is utterly dominated with crimes happening constantly. How much exactly does it take in terms of activities to do it?
5.I'm not sure what equivalence grouping is.
6. I actually think the fact that the Endings are dependent on Side Quests is interesting. It does after all give you endings based on what you did and didn't do.
7. Well that is a function of 1#

Edit: I've elaborated a bit below. It might come off a bit blunt but I am really trying to keep my writing from exploding into essay territory. I want to keep this short and readable, but every point is potentially an avenue for a deeper conversation with more details. Thus I'm finding it a bit hard to contain myself. It might also come off as if I dislike the game, but I'm not sure I do. I like parts of it just fine. Other parts not so much. In terms of bias, I suppose I'm still a bit annoyed that CDPR hasn't given us the game they promised back when I bought the game in June 2019.

Anyway, enough blabber. Elaboration...

1) But is the game a shooter or an RPG or just a generic "action game" with "elements of x" or what is it precisely? One could maybe call it an adventure game and sort of get away with it but it doesn't really fit into that genre either, since there's so much action stuff and stat distribution and item sorting going on. For me, it feels like CDPR wanted the game to be "all of the above" so they added a whole bunch of elements, but the end result is an action game with not enough action, an RPG that doesn't really let players role-play quite enough, or a narrative experience that isn't super focused on getting to the point.

2) Consider how many times you see persistent characters move around. All the fixers are always standing around at the exact same spot. All the vendors are always at the same spot. The only time this changes is when you're doing quests that move them around. Otherwise they're perfectly anchored in place.

3) What I'm trying to get at is that nothing you find at any point in the game really has any significant value. Not a single thing. Any gun you pick up now is probably underleveled within an hour or two. Even if it is "epic". And crafting and upgrading is mostly for people who spec into it, isn't it? Thus finding some gun or a nice pair of pants isn't that useful and the game will actively encourage you to get rid of that stuff pretty soon anyway. So when you're exploring NC, what exactly can you find that rewards the effort?

4) The crimes are not happening constantly, AFAIK. They are hand-placed single-fire events. Once they're done, they will not return. Which means that Night City is actually a bit boring once you reach level 40+. Another thing to notice is that the crimes are in fact not happening at all unless V is close by. Want to handle the crime in progress right now? No? Okay, then just wait two weeks, it's still going to be in progress.

On top of this, there really is a frustrating lack of actual characters. All the crowds are randomly spawned non-characters that exist for a few seconds and then get unloaded and lost forever. You're not seeing persistant characters move around and have a life and you're not seeing familiar faces out in the field, doing jobs.

5) Equivalence grouping is used in situations where technical differences exist between elements but those technical differences don't really have a qualitative difference on the element. Thus all the elements, despite their technical differences, are effectively equivalent. Imagine if Doom only had regular zombies but they came in a hundred different color schemes. Would that be fun? Sure, there are now a lot "more" enemy types, but they are all equivalent. The same applies to enemies in CP77. Killing Valentinos isn't particularly different from killing Animals or Maelstroms.

6) I'm not just talking about endings. I'm talking about everything you do. If you kill 50 cops and then run away, there's zero response. Having done quests will occasionally matter but rarely ever the way you did it. You can kill several thousand people over a few weeks and nobody bats an eye. Arisaka could potentially lose their iconic boss, his trusty samurai servant, their iconic super-enforcer, and their super future-tech, and it doesn't even warrant a mention in the epilogue.

7) Arguably, yes, it is a consequence of CDPR indecision and lack of perspective during most of the development. But that doesn't make it less of a problem. The released game is not purely a narrative experience, and the reason it isn't is because CDPR know that people want a lot more. But the hamfistedness of the plot gets in the way of that. Frankly, it feels a bit like CDPR didn't stop to think a bit what people would actually like to do other than just going through the MQ and then shelving the game.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Edit: I've elaborated a bit below. It might come off a bit blunt but I am really trying to keep my writing from exploding into essay territory. I want to keep this short and readable, but every point is potentially an avenue for a deeper conversation with more details. Thus I'm finding it a bit hard to contain myself. It might also come off as if I dislike the game, but I'm not sure I do. I like parts of it just fine. Other parts not so much. In terms of bias, I suppose I'm still a bit annoyed that CDPR hasn't given us the game they promised back when I bought the game in June 2019.

Anyway, enough blabber. Elaboration...

1) But is the game a shooter or an RPG or just a generic "action game" with "elements of x" or what is it precisely? One could maybe call it an adventure game and sort of get away with it but it doesn't really fit into that genre either, since there's so much action stuff and stat distribution and item sorting going on. For me, it feels like CDPR wanted the game to be "all of the above" so they added a whole bunch of elements, but the end result is an action game with not enough action, an RPG that doesn't really let players role-play quite enough, or a narrative experience that isn't super focused on getting to the point.

2) Consider how many times you see persistent characters move around. All the fixers are always standing around at the exact same spot. All the vendors are always at the same spot. The only time this changes is when you're doing quests that move them around. Otherwise they're perfectly anchored in place.

3) What I'm trying to get at is that nothing you find at any point in the game really has any significant value. Not a single thing. Any gun you pick up now is probably underleveled within an hour or two. Even if it is "epic". And crafting and upgrading is mostly for people who spec into it, isn't it? Thus finding some gun or a nice pair of pants isn't that useful and the game will actively encourage you to get rid of that stuff pretty soon anyway. So when you're exploring NC, what exactly can you find that rewards the effort?

4) The crimes are not happening constantly, AFAIK. They are hand-placed single-fire events. Once they're done, they will not return. Which means that Night City is actually a bit boring once you reach level 40+. Another thing to notice is that the crimes are in fact not happening at all unless V is close by. Want to handle the crime in progress right now? No? Okay, then just wait two weeks, it's still going to be in progress.

On top of this, there really is a frustrating lack of actual characters. All the crowds are randomly spawned non-characters that exist for a few seconds and then get unloaded and lost forever. You're not seeing persistant characters move around and have a life and you're not seeing familiar faces out in the field, doing jobs.

5) Equivalence grouping is used in situations where technical differences exist between elements but those technical differences don't really have a qualitative difference on the element. Thus all the elements, despite their technical differences, are effectively equivalent. Imagine if Doom only had regular zombies but they came in a hundred different color schemes. Would that be fun? Sure, there are now a lot "more" enemy types, but they are all equivalent. The same applies to enemies in CP77. Killing Valentinos isn't particularly different from killing Animals or Maelstroms.

6) I'm not just talking about endings. I'm talking about everything you do. If you kill 50 cops and then run away, there's zero response. Having done quests will occasionally matter but rarely ever the way you did it. You can kill several thousand people over a few weeks and nobody bats an eye. Arisaka could potentially lose their iconic boss, his trusty samurai servant, their iconic super-enforcer, and their super future-tech, and it doesn't even warrant a mention in the epilogue.

7) Arguably, yes, it is a consequence of CDPR indecision and lack of perspective during most of the development. But that doesn't make it less of a problem. The released game is not purely a narrative experience, and the reason it isn't is because CDPR know that people want a lot more. But the hamfistedness of the plot gets in the way of that. Frankly, it feels a bit like CDPR didn't stop to think a bit what people would actually like to do other than just going through the MQ and then shelving the game.

I just wonder if you played The Witcher 3 by chance ?
If yes, you would probably have a good idea about CDPR type of game and what Cyberpunk would be ?
(Because most of your points could also be applied to TW3. And like we say, dogs don't make cats^^)

 

[CTPhipps]

I just wonder if you played The Witcher 3 by chance ?
If yes, you would probably have a good idea about CDPR type of game and what Cyberpunk would be ?
(Because most of your points could also be applied to TW3. And like we say, dogs don't make cats^^)

Actually, it weirdly feels a lot more like a cyberpunk Skyrim.

Very similar to Fallout 3 or New Vegas.

 

[Arachnarok_Rider]

I just wonder if you played The Witcher 3 by chance ?
If yes, you would probably have a good idea about CDPR type of game and what Cyberpunk would be ?
(Because most of your points could also be applied to TW3. And like we say, dogs don't make cats^^)

Nope, never did. Been on the list of things to do for a ridiculously long time, but there's just always been something else higher up on the list. Did play Witcher 1, way back in the day. And as I remember it, it did have a fair bit of choice and consequence, which earned it a bit more RPG points.

However, from what I recall from TW1, it was a third person RPG with a significant action focus centered around how witchers move and fight in melee. Geralt's equipment was more or less fixed from what I remember. It was really about picking a fighting style, picking your upgrades, and gathering consumable resources. I don't know if this changed in TW2 and TW3.

That is clearly not the same core gameplay we see in CP77, though. Now there are guns, much larger battlefields, much more effective ways of engaging in tactical combat, and constantly getting better gear is part of the gameplay loop. These things are very shooter-like, hence why I personally expect the game to do more with it than it currently does.

As far as NPCs and such, I frankly don't remember how it worked in the Witcher games. But the concept of schedules for NPCs existed in the Gothic series 20 years ago, and Bethesda have gone wild with it. Thus it feels a bit antiquated when CP77 NPCs are all anchored in place rather than out and about every now and again. Or asleep. Or out for lunch.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Nope, never did. Been on the list of things to do for a ridiculously long time, but there's just always been something else higher up on the list. Did play Witcher 1, way back in the day. And as I remember it, it did have a fair bit of choice and consequence, which earned it a bit more RPG points.

However, from what I recall from TW1, it was a third person RPG with a significant action focus centered around how witchers move and fight in melee. Geralt's equipment was more or less fixed from what I remember. It was really about picking a fighting style, picking your upgrades, and gathering consumable resources. I don't know if this changed in TW2 and TW3.

That is clearly not the same core gameplay we see in CP77, though. Now there are guns, much larger battlefields, much more effective ways of engaging in tactical combat, and constantly getting better gear is part of the gameplay loop. These things are very shooter-like, hence why I personally expect the game to do more with it than it currently does.

As far as NPCs and such, I frankly don't remember how it worked in the Witcher games. But the concept of schedules for NPCs existed in the Gothic series 20 years ago, and Bethesda have gone wild with it. Thus it feels a bit antiquated when CP77 NPCs are all anchored in place rather than out and about every now and again. Or asleep. Or out for lunch.

In fact, Cyberpunk is to The Witcher 3 what Fallout 4 is to Skyrim (same studio, same "mechanic/style" with different background/Packaging).
That's why I ask, because all of your points on your post above could also be applied to The Witcher 3. Loot, craft, NPCs, events, leveling and some would disagree, but choices too (only a few dialogues change the endings)

 

[Arachnarok_Rider]

In fact, Cyberpunk is to The Witcher 3 what Fallout 4 is to Skyrim (same studio, same "mechanic/style" with different background/Packaging).
That's why I ask, because all of your points on your post above could also be applied to The Witcher 3. Loot, craft, NPCs, events, leveling and some would disagree, but choices too (only a few dialogues change the endings)

I'm not sure the comparison is entirely fair. I reckon there's quite a lot of differences between CP77 and TW1 (like I said, don't know about TW2 and TW3) that aren't quite similar to the jump between TES5 and F4.

Having played both those games quite a bit, I would argue that Bethesda actually did compensate for the difference in weapons when they designed their dynamic encounters. You're not stuck with just a few one-off scripted events and otherwise limited to fighting only one or two enemies at a time in F4, even though there are some significant engine limitations. And of course they didn't design their item system based on a looter-shooter template, where your level 1 .50 cal sniper rifle is awful and your level 50 pipe gun will one-shot anything below level 40. That wasn't the design in TW3 either, was it?

 

[LeKill3rFou]

I'm not sure the comparison is entirely fair. I reckon there's quite a lot of differences between CP77 and TW1 (like I said, don't know about TW2 and TW3) that aren't quite similar to the jump between TES5 and F4.

It is fair, even more than Skyrim/Fallout
Exact same loot/craft/leveling system, same inventory or almost, stash system, NPC random spawning in the "big" cities, level of world interactions, most of doors locked... I could list similarities all day long
Most of map "fillers" are also very, very similar :
GIGs > Witcher contracts
NCPD Scanner Hustles > Unknow locations
Random events here and there

In fact, what I mean it's when you know how was The Witcher 3, you can't really expect a totally different game (some "improvements/changes", yes. But not an entire different game). Like when I will play Starfield, I'll expect to play more or less a Fallout 4/Skyrim type game in space (nothing which would really change from what Bethesda did previously).

 

[casadechrisso]

- unvoiced main character,

Ok, I get where you're coming from, the point of roleplaying etc... but this game without female V's fantastic voice acting wouldn't be half as enjoyable, Cherami Leigh is such a delight I couldn't imagine the game without her. She's one of the strongest points of the whole game for me.
Maybe I could do without if I was playing male V, in the few snipplets I saw from him in videos I wasn't much affected by him but that might just be because I haven't played him myself and got so used to the female one.

 

[OneOrphan]

Cyberpunk is to The Witcher 3 what Fallout 4 is to Skyrim

I know what you mean by this, I would agree. I think this is the main reason why people were dismayed when CP77 launched (aside from the game breaking bugs). CDPR had/has a certain style to their games that is unique to them. I would not consider any games they have made an open world, sandbox, rpg; I would describe all their games as a story-driven, guided action rpg. Games like Deus Ex Human Revolution would fall under a similar genre.

People had many complaints, but I would say the two main problems the majority of gamers had with Cyberpunk was:
1. Not enough "things to do" or "interactive gameplay systems" in the city (whether it's smoking a joint or impactfully interacting with gangs)
2. The police system

The problem imo only arises because of the difference in setting between the two games and the gaslighting of who the player character is. In the Witcher 3 you're told that you are a Monster Hunter (there's 2 games and books explaining exactly who you are), so naturally most people are going to get ready to role play some sort of Monster Hunter according to canon. This is why the monster slaying quests, along with the main quest, was enough content for people to say Witcher 3 was a masterpiece. The setting of the Witcher 3 made sense, no need for a deep police system because it takes place in a setting where the only guards who would interfere if you committed a crime were the guards that were immediately witnessing you and present to your location; the lands were war-torn and there were no cellphones to call for back up. You either were there or you weren't. And not knowing who killed who made sense to players' suspension of disbelief; everything a player would want to do as a "Monster Slayer" they were able to do ( you could even haggle prices for your service, that's so cool!). People got what they expected when you looked at the cover of the game, and it was done well.

Cyberpunk on the other hand. Everything from the Witcher is more or less in Cyberpunk. The only difference now is that the game tells you to believe you are V, a chromed out mercenary trying to get his/her lot in life. Here lies the problem imo. A mercenary is very vague compared to a Monster Slayer. You could be bad or good but Geralt is still a monster hunter; he's here to do nothing more, nothing less and at the end of every quest you either killed a monster or you didn't. But when you say I'm a good or I'm a bad mercenary and my mission is to become a legend in Night City, now the scope is exponentially enlarged. What even is a Legend in Night City? I can lie, I can cheat, I have the possibilities to do so much more because my line of work and my life goal is super vague. The Setting is now different too, people have guns, the desire for different weaponry/loot skyrockets way past swords and spears (not to mention cyberwear and hacking). The suspension of disbelief dies with all this technology. People needed gangs to be gangs. Police to be police. Possibilities and expectations are just too big. But with all that being said I am thoroughly enjoying Cyberpunk 2077 after 1.6 patch and I can't wait to see what more they do with it all in Phantom Liberty. I would gladly purchase any dlc they make for this game.

 

[CTPhipps]

The funny thing about the Witcher 3 is that it has absolutely no world-interactivity whatsoever. They're just nice background.

Some other interactivity things I'd like to see:

* The option of going to gamble at some of the parlors. Either play pachinko machines or cards.
* Make two strip clubs, men and women, that don't have to be any dirtier than Mass Effect. I'm not here for the Joytoys after all.
* Another arcade cabinet.
* The option of eating at the food stands with an animation there, the option for drinking at the bar.
* More races after the finsihing of Claire's races.

The problem imo only arises because of the difference in setting between the two games and the gaslighting of who the player character is. In the Witcher 3 you're told that you are a Monster Hunter (there's 2 games and books explaining exactly who you are), so naturally most people are going to get ready to role play some sort of Monster Hunter according to canon. This is why the monster slaying quests, along with the main quest, was enough content for people to say Witcher 3 was a masterpiece.

Ehhhh, as much as the Witcher 3 was the most popular of the games, I wouldn't say it was the generic nature of the Monster Slayer because that isn't the main job Geralt does.

I'd say the fact that Geralt had two previous games to establish the story and characters (why Triss was so wildly popular as one of the most well-loved LIs in video games).

Plus I'd argue being a street mercenary wasn't the problem. I'd argue a lot of people seemed unaware that you WERE a street mercenary since we kept getting so many posts saying, "I wanted to work for the corporations, not be a criminal!"

 

[Guest 3847602]

Plus I'd argue being a street mercenary wasn't the problem. I'd argue a lot of people seemed unaware that you WERE a street mercenary since we kept getting so many posts saying, "I wanted to work for the corporations, not be a criminal!"

A lot of them seems to be completely unaware of what mercenary is even supposed to be since we keep hearing things like: I want to rob stores, mug NPCs, join gangs, build my own criminal empire, etc...
V is a lot closer to Geralt than GTA/Saints Row protagonists.

 

[Tubit]

No, it's exactly how it's supposed to be. One way sum up the cyberpunk genre is "high tech, low life". Your observation of impact to quality of life is absolutely spot on target, also your question about why? What you are missing is the answer. So, let's think of that a bit.

Takemura and Oda for example, even if they are in the end expendable, they have major corpo backing them up. V can get way better arms and legs cyberware, because V is earning pretty well as edgerunner. Waitress, factory worker, common citizens in general, they aren't making anywhere that much money. They buy what they can afford and even that might be on down payment.

Something that really got my attention were number of citizens that appeared to have issues with their cyberware. Holding their arm, bad posture, which is to show that not only they aren't getting anywhere near A-class cyberware, but they also had issues with them and with stuff like that, it's not like human tissue that heals, they need very specialized service and that doesn't come free either.

To get back to quality of life things, aesthetics... but frankly thinking human interaction on sexual level, their only options may have the Moxes, Joy toys and Braindances, latter being another method for corps to profit from them.

Cyberpunk dystopia.

I disagree. The reasons you're coming up with feel contrived rather than a reasonable consequence. As I've already said earlier: there are cheaper non-invasive alternatives to cyberware. There is no reason why a waitress would cut of their own legs when they could use an exoskeleton relief at work instead. And yes, there is no reason to assume it wouldn't be a lot cheaper than cyberware, no matter how you look at it.

If we ignore that fact, and instead just look at cyberware solutions; an industrial grade type prosthetic made of massive steel would never be cheaper to a more subtle everyday prosthetic. Why? Because of supply and demand. Because of industrial grade requirements. Because mass produced consumer grade plastic is cheaper than industrial steel machinery.

If for some reason, someone still decided to go for the industrial-type cybernetic legs, despite having more reasonable alternatives, then that should be explained and part of the story. It should be a "special feature". It should be the noteworthy exception. It should not be something you have to come up with a reason for by your own volition. That is frankly just the same as coming up with excuses for inconsistencies that were put in the game by mistake. That is something I regard as a distraction that detracts from the game experience.

In a game of a more fundamentally procedural nature, it would be ok. But CP2077 is not that kind of game.

What this ultimately comes down to is aesthetics and plausibility. I don't appreciate cyberware indiscriminately portrayed in every situation and every societal strata just for the sake of it. It feels overblown and it doesn't feel cool anymore. It makes me continuously ask myself, "why is this here?" when I encounter it in-game. When it becomes too much, it's not punk anymore, it's mainstream. It becomes too 'fantasy' for my own personal tastes.

 

[CTPhipps]

I disagree. The reasons you're coming up with feel contrived rather than a reasonable consequence. As I've already said earlier: there are cheaper non-invasive alternatives to cyberware. There is no reason why a waitress would cut of their own legs when they could use an exoskeleton relief at work instead. And yes, there is no reason to assume it wouldn't be a lot cheaper than cyberware, no matter how you look at it.

Actually, the rebuttal for that would be, "This is a post-societal collapse dystopia run by impractical megacorporations forcing their hardware on people." Cybernetics being ultracommon, impractical, badly made, and DANGEROUS is part of the setting.

The above statement is a bit like asking why Americans have cars instead of using public transport to me.

Yes, an exosekeleton or support would be cheaper. You've already made a good argument why they'd kill that as an alternative.

What this ultimately comes down to is aesthetics and plausibility. I don't appreciate cyberware indiscriminately portrayed in every situation and every societal strata just for the sake of it. It feels overblown and it doesn't feel cool anymore. It makes me continuously ask myself, "why is this here?"

To emphasize this is a badly-made ubiquitous technology?

 

[Tubit]

Actually, the rebuttal for that would be, "This is a post-societal collapse dystopia run by impractical megacorporations forcing their hardware on people." Cybernetics being ultracommon, impractical, badly made, and DANGEROUS is part of the setting.

The above statement is a bit like asking why Americans have cars instead of using public transport to me.

Yes, an exosekeleton or support would be cheaper. You've already made a good argument why they'd kill that as an alternative.



To emphasize this is a badly-made ubiquitous technology?

Why are people going overboard in attempts to "rebut" my subjective opinion? Why has this become a huge derailment of the original topic of this thread?

This is your subjective interpretation of the lore. It's likely more in line with what CDPR intended when they released the game. Who cares? It's not relevant to me. It doesn't bring anything new to the table. If I agreed with everything CDPR did, I wouldn't be posting in this thread. My opinion is what it is, and I won't change it based on your "rebuttal". It feels far fetched to me, as does CDPR's presentation of this particular theme. It feels like a gaudy, hamfisted over-exaggeration - and that might be intentional, but it still feels trite and uncool to me.