What’s new in Night City? [Patch 1.2 development insight]

[Bukary77]

The ones that are interactible, seem to suggest that there were some interiors initially available, but in the production process turned into closed areas? Who knows?

Some interiors in the city were definitely planned as available for the player and then closed (or unfinished). There are some videos on the net (on Reddit) that are clear evidence of this. You can access some of these interiors (e.g. huge shooting range building) with the use of mods.

 

[Alfredo_Linguini]

Results over promises please. This is getting too old.

 

[incomingdamage]

I didn't mean to say he had no point, I was genuinely curious about how would the potential solution look?
Best alternative I could come up with is to remove "open" option for every single non-operable door in the city, for the doors to be nothing more than recoloured area of the wall (which they essentially are right now), but this method they're using in Cyberpunk right now is exactly what they've used in TW3 for about 90% of the doors in Novigrad and Beauclair, it didn't look unnatural to me back then and I don't remember locked doors being brought up as anyone's gripe with the game.

Sure, you are probably right, I admit that I don't remember how it was done in Witcher 3.
Maybe it's just that the older you get with games, the more nitpicky you become about some details and consistency. But we probably digress anyway, it's just a small and rather unimportant element of the game. There are definitely more serious, technical problems to address.

Still, wouldn't hurt to have just a little bit more interiors to enter here and there Maybe we will get some in future DLCs.

Post automatically merged: Mar 24, 2021

Some interiors in the city were definitely planned as available for the player and then closed (or unfinished). There are some videos on the net (on Reddit) that are clear evidence of this. You can access some of these interiors (e.g. huge shooting range building) with the use of mods.

Oh, I didn't know that. Interesting, thank you!
Maybe they will bring back some of these in DLC content, would be nice.

 

[Czembro]

I didn't mean to say he had no point, I was genuinely curious about how would the potential solution look?
Best alternative I could come up with is to remove "open" option for every single non-operable door in the city, for the doors to be nothing more than recoloured area of the wall (which they essentially are right now), but this method they're using in Cyberpunk right now is exactly what they've used in TW3 for about 90% of the doors in Novigrad and Beauclair, it didn't look unnatural to me back then and I don't remember locked doors being brought up as anyone's gripe with the game.

I think it may have something to do with perspective. When playing in FPP players usually seek more interactivity, cause it mimics our real life perspective that we are used to. In TPP player is more of an observer of the protagonist, kinda like when watching a movie, so the lack of interactivity isn't that jarring. Because of that it is more likely that player will try to open doors in Cyberpunk than in Witcher and much quicker notice the artificiality. At least, that's how I see this.

Also, if I remember correctly, all of the places marked as shops, inns, etc. were accessible and marked with some sort of signboard in Witcher 3 and those are places that are much more likely for player to visit, whereas in Cyberpunk even though a lot of places look like being open (e.g. ones that looks like shops with a huge neon sign OPEN next to the doors) are in fact completely inaccessible, which breaks the immersion and forces player to look for any service points on the map, rather than just finding it by walking down the street.

 

[ElsonsoJannus]

maybe game devs should start hiring modders then! i mean they accomplished in two weeks what the developers did in three months says something!

The funny thing is that a modder not working for CDPR can make a change to the game in a day or two. That same modder, working for CDPR, will make a change, but it will take longer to do it because now they are responsible for making sure it is right. When they are done, no one will see it until after it is bundled with all the other changes being worked on by all the other developers, tested, fixed, and finally distributed.

After all that, all the fame they will get for it is an uncredited line in some patch notes document. It probably won't even be mentioned in the flashy "get ready, a patch is coming!" material that this thread is about.

Why a modder would want all that, aside from the pay check and work experience, is confusing.

 

[incomingdamage]

I think it may have something to do with perspective. When playing in FPP players usually seek more interactivity, cause it mimics our real life perspective that we are used to. In TPP player is more of an observer of the protagonist, kinda like when watching a movie, so the lack of interactivity isn't that jarring. Because of that it is more likely that player will try to open doors in Cyberpunk than in Witcher and much quicker notice the artificiality. At least, that's how I see this.

Yes, that's a very good point - FPP kind of brings us closer to the environment around us, both visually and "physically". It also seems to be the reason why visual glitches become a bit more noticeable in Cyberpunk - we often have them right in front of our eyes, so to speak.

Btw, regarding character creation and clothing + cyberware, which were one of the reasons why many people complained about the lack of third person option, you can actually presume there might be an explanation on CDP RED side (just a loose theory though), that it was another part of the FPP aproach: in real life, you can change clothing of course, but you won't see yourself unless you look down on your body or check in a mirror. On the other hand, well... mirrors in this game aren't the best design choice honestly Some people say that it was done this way to hide problems with the player's model and rendering of NPCs.

Another interesting thing is the shower in V's apartment - at first I thought to myself that it's just an overlook from the devs that V doesn't take clothes off before going under the shower, but then you can look at it differently - that, as in real life, you have to take those clothes off yourself and then go under the shower (so go into inventory and deactivate clothing parts). Is the way it was designed like that intentional, I don't know, but still kinda interesting
V's position when lying on bed though - something must have gone wrong here...

 

[watcher0066]

What about Ray Tracing for AMD? It is time..

 

[ElsonsoJannus]

V's position when lying on bed though - something must have gone wrong here...

After much thought, the only thing I can think of is that the person who did the sleep animation has never seen V's apartment, nor did they ever talk to anyone that has. The QA people probably found this, but the apartment designer said that it is the animator that needs to fix it, while the animator maintains that the animation is fine, but the bed needs to be realigned.

In any case, I don't think this is a bug. It feels intentional, even if it is wrong. I don't expect that they are going to "fix" something that is not broken. I wish they would, though.

 

[exxxed]

[...]

Or so called "POWERFULL tools" are only made to create more problems instead of being MORE POWERFULL in FIXING/avoiding them at first place?

With this kind of inherited logic [...]... We should assume that all our modern transportation vehicles... cars/planes etc should be inherently less reliable... Aka wheels flying off the cars and wings dropping off planes on every other drive/flight. Yet the opposite is true.

And the reason for it is, mostly, regulations and people held accountable for their screw ups and sandbaging attitude towards their job.

So no I don't buy the BS excuse that everything MODERN and COMPLEX should inherently be FAULTY & BUGY [...].

But I DO buy the fact that anything non-regulated & everything we let "others" to get away with, CAN & WILL be faulty until people with "cojones" speak up and held them accountable for their screw ups.

The only problem with your analogy (which I understand) is that one relies on actual physics and the other relies on artificially created (arbitrarily) logic which has inherent problems due to how complex systems are crated and iterated upon that change this logic (in countless different ways) every time this happens.

It's especially more apparent with video game engines that are initially designed to fit different purposes and get adjusted with each iteration to serve other purposes that are out of their design limitations.

Most of the time it happens without the help of the original coders, so these new engineers need to discover and reason the logic behind different strands of code and figure out work arounds that ultimately lead to a basic change in logic and creates problems of it's own - now multiply this by a thousand.

It's not the same as creating and developing technology that serves in the manufacturing of automobiles and other motor vehicles, these rely on well established physics that are static and reliable, the base-line data is not changing, what's changing is the manufacturing process and the improvement of materials.

Now for the on board software, the software has problems as well which gets updates and gets iterated upon like every software ever.

 

[Maranares]

V's position when lying on bed though - something must have gone wrong here...

It's not just V, actually. NPCs lay on bed that way too. I noticed it after getting my place in Aldecaldo's camp. I entered my shelter and saw a female NPC lying in that awkward horizontal position, just like V. It happened two times. Maybe an early sign of cyberpsychosis?

 

[rez27772]

We are going away from 1.2 topic now but if someone is naive to the point where he really believes that every shop/restaurant/service store will be open to enter just like in real life than I guess he will never be happy with CP2077 and its time to move on.

Every? No, unworkable... but definitely a higher percentage than 0.5%.

 

[ellxn]

maybe game devs should start hiring modders then! i mean they accomplished in two weeks what the developers did in three months says something!

To be fair, modders don't have access to the code. All they can do right now is tweak .json files. It's very likely that the devs are currently reworking chunks of code (possibly, even the engine itself), that's why from the outside you can't see a huge difference, even though they've been at work for months.
Add to that the chance of interferences and the butterfly effect of coding... A cop in Night City learns to use the car, and suddenly Takemura doesn't call anymore
Short answer: it's more complicated than it looks.

 

[Haki.si]

shouldn't be there simply some sort of a constant vote-system for bugs?

I applaud your enthusiasm but lets be realistic, for them to implement vote system for bugs and fixes would mean that their code or understanding of their broken spaghetti code is present which isnt. Its like telling your mechanic that your turbo needs fixing but said mechanic doesnt know where turbo is located under the hood nor how to fix it. CDPR would be just digging a bigger grave if they implement vote system. Heck check their project pipeline how it works/doesnt work since there isnt one ie. wasted time, doing double work which was already done by some other dev, dev file clashing etc. etc. Just leave it.

 

[Carbn_Copy]

How would you communicate that to the players without breaking the 4th wall?

There really is no fourth wall in this game. All if the smoke & mirrors tricks used in games that are supposed to maintain that illusion are so ham-fisted in this game that there is no separation of the player from the fact this is a stage piece. Cars that can't go around any obstacle, cars and NPCs that disappear or completely change if you turn around for five seconds, shadows that don't match of with the player's body...there is really no fourth wall here.

 

[GrimReaper801]

The only problem with your analogy (which I understand) is that one relies on actual physics and the other relies on artificially created (arbitrarily) logic which has inherent problems due to how complex systems are crated and iterated upon that change this logic (in countless different ways) every time this happens.

It's especially more apparent with video game engines that are initially designed to fit different purposes and get adjusted with each iteration to serve other purposes that are out of their design limitations.

Most of the time it happens without the help of the original coders, so these new engineers need to discover and reason the logic behind different strands of code and figure out work arounds that ultimately lead to a basic change in logic and creates problems of it's own - now multiply this by a thousand.

It's not the same as creating and developing technology that serves in the manufacturing of automobiles and other motor vehicles, these rely on well established physics that are static and reliable, the base-line data is not changing, what's changing is the manufacturing process and the improvement of materials.

Now for the on board software, the software has problems as well which gets updates and gets iterated upon like every software ever.

Awww you beat me to the punch.

His whole analogy is, quite frankly, a false equivalence of epic proportions.

And the reason for it is, mostly, regulations and people held accountable for their screw ups and sandbaging attitude towards their job.

Yes, people have a tendency to be held accountable and regulations have a tendency to be required when the lack of both, or either, can lead to the death of numerous human beings.

So no I don't buy the BS excuse that everything MODERN and COMPLEX should inherently be FAULTY & BUGY [...].

You're completely missing the point of the post. I thought I spelled it out very simply but I guess I was wrong.

Let me clarify using your own words.

More complex products are not inherently more faulty or buggy.

More complex products have an inherently higher chance of something going wrong. Simply put the more moving parts - the more chances that one of these parts will not act the way it's supposed to. The more chances of something going wrong, the more things that will go wrong. You go ahead and ask Elon Musk which was easier - building his first EV or setting up his production plant made up of thousands upon thousands (human or mechanical) of moving parts that are all highly dependable on each other and only one going wrong can throw a wrench in the whole process.

Now, with that in mind, these things that go wrong can vary greatly in scope and effect. It can be a bunch of easy to fix issues ranging all the way to "scrap the project" issues. Whether your project's issues are smaller or bigger in scope depends on many variables. Some of which CDPR certainly failed in.

Furthermore, you'd be surprised by the number of recalls on modern vehicles. That's 66 pages worth of recalls, or millions of vehicles recalled, over the last decade. The only reason you don't hear about most of them is because most of them are not "people died/people might die" type of recalls. You might want to revisit your idea that modern vehicles don't come off the chain faulty.

But I DO buy the fact that anything non-regulated & everything we let "others" to get away with, CAN & WILL be faulty until people with "cojones" speak up and held them accountable for their screw ups.

People with cojones? Oh please, you're not some hero liberating us from the evils of corporate greed. You have literally no influence over the situation and them fixing it. Your only capacity to "hold them accountable" is to vote with your wallet by either buying, or not, their next products, just like the rest of us. Telling them over and over again how they messed up and how they should fix the game is just beating a dead horse. They know how they've screwed up and the game's sales have been massively impacted by it.

This is a game. A luxury product that no one needs. Your only power over it is with your money. Your cojones have absolutely no power over it.

You are right about one thing though. The industry DOES need regulations.

 

[Lorindes]

This is just fucking outstanding.

 

[motox73]

This is just fucking outstanding.

Yep it feels like CDPR went to the bathroom and escaped from the window, and we're all impatiently waiting outside the door

 

[rez27772]

This is just fucking outstanding.

Which part?
Let's hope the band-aid is sticky enough.

 

[Fuse_00]

Why do you keep mocking them for their mistakes (which obviously have been made) while completely ignoring everything good about the game? Frankly the storyline alone and voiceover already overweights for me all these countless broken things i have encountered during the gameplay

That is exactly the reason why people (including me) are disappointed this much. Because this game had a potential to be masterpiece, but everything good about it (story, characters, setting, lore etc.) was corrupted with poor game design choices.

Yes, there are some great, lovely characters in this game. But at the same time they have almost no influence on the story and there is little amount of ways we can interact with them, some of them even have no endings for their questlines.
Yes, the main story is interesting and fresh, some episodes were very emotional. But it is rushed af, act 1 is 50% of the game, it is linear and provides no interest for replaying.
No speaking of gameplay, almost every aspect of it is corrupted one way or another.

If there be some random Far cry game with these problems, I'd just say "whatever, I'll play something else", but I can see how good this game could be with bigger efforts.

Playing Cyberpunk is like watching cut version of Interstellar with 60% dialogs removed in 240p on cellphone display. You can still see the potential but you can't fully enjoy it since there are too many distractions.

 

[GrimReaper801]

Which part?
Let's hope the band-aid is sticky enough.