Where do I keep this crap? Gear caches!

[dekkarius]

Where do I keep this crap? Gear caches!

I was reading through the thread on safehouses, and a common theme there was storage. Here's an idea I've used and seen many times in PnP cyberpunk gaming I've done over the years. Hide your gear in the world!

Most games don't even address inventory remotely like in a PnP. You just become a walking arsenal that has absolutely no problem hauling several thousand bullets, a knife, a hand gun, a shotgun, an assault rifle, and eventually some kinda anti-tank weapon while moving at full speed. While I don't want to discuss inventory limitations and design here, you're almost definitely going to need to put something somewhere.

Safehouses aside, any good runner has a few emergency caches around town that can be accessed as necessary or when things go bad. Perhaps, the item needed to be stashed hastily because you were surrounded, outgunned, and didn't want to get arrested with it!

Your world becomes your hiding place. Maybe you found that you can remove a panel from the side of a machine in an alley, and keep a gun and a few rounds in it. You could hide something in the wall behind a toilet in the bathroom, where others can't see you access it. Maybe the back of the mailbox or bottom of the drawer is false, and you fit a little cash in there. Maybe you can keep bigger stuff in the vent, or in the ceiling.

The point of caches in the world Mike Pondsmith is telling us about is that it captures that "dark, gritty, rain-wet street feeling" while the player responds to, and begins to feel that "rock and roll, lost and desperate, dangerous quality" he talks about. Having to hide stuff in the floor that might get stolen, if anyone sees you and has the balls, is gritty and desperate, and worrying that someone might take it conveys that the world is harsh and couldn't give two shits about you, but that you have to, because you can't carry 200lbs of gear everywhere all the time. It makes us, who value our things, feel that sense of risk we have to take even with what we value, to survive this hostile world.

What do you guys think?

 

[blank_redge]

I very much like this idea. Only games I can think of off the top of my head that allowed for this kind of mechanic were Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas. (Though, you were still able to carry an absurd amount of gear, so there you go.)

 

[LexiiO]

I very much like this idea. Only games I can think of off the top of my head that allowed for this kind of mechanic were Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas. (Though, you were still able to carry an absurd amount of gear, so there you go.)

The idea of course is great, but what you say here is even more important.

We must not be able to carry as much stuff as in the Fallcrap games.

Must not.

Inventory should be limited, not too much, but shouldnt be too big either.

 

[Mikedudeh]

The idea of course is great, but what you say here is even more important.

We must not be able to carry as much stuff as in the Fallcrap games.

Must not.

Inventory should be limited, not too much, but shouldnt be too big either.

I liked the way dragons dogma handled inventory. For those who haven't played it the amount of gear you carried effected your player speed and stamina usage. While you had the ability to carry a lot of ideas if needed (which is important in any game with loot) but you most often travel very very light. A slow character in an open world is hell.

To me storage is basically the only reason I care about houses, but storing around the world - as cool as it sounds - doesn't make much sense to me outside of nomad playstyles. Id rarely go anywhere without the things I need already on me, and if I found myself lacking in anything I imagine shops would be just as common as stash points. There are probably rare random exceptions but planning ahead for these would be hard and more work than toughing it out IMO.

 

[blank_redge]

Id rarely go anywhere without the things I need already on me, and if I found myself lacking in anything I imagine shops would be just as common as stash points. There are probably rare random exceptions but planning ahead for these would be hard and more work than toughing it out IMO.

Chow Yun Fat, The Killer, 1999.

Opening scene, he's walking down a hallway with a moll, stashing guns in in potted plans along the way.

Gets to his target, gunfight erupts, Chow Yun Fat assumes his classic badassery.

As he's (casually) withdrawing down the hallway, as a gun runs out of ammo, he drops it, and grabs the next loaded gun out of the next planter down the hallway. P-I-M-P status. =D

(Not that I expect this, or any game, to be this open in mechanics, but if they could work in this level of freedom, that'd be awesome.)

 

[dekkarius]

I see how gear caches can become cumbersome, but the premise that there is a "bank" where your stuff is 100% safe like in MMOs, or where you have near infinite inventory, like in Fallout, are conventions I decided were worth providing a worldly alternative to, because they would destroy a piece of the beautiful immersion Mike Pondsmith envisions for sheer convenience, along the lines of : I'm not saving me from the world anymore, because my things are 100% safe already.

Another way this would be useful is if you're on a mission, and you're following a target you intend to kill, but he enters a high security club or a really nice part of town, and you don't have time to wait it out. The police here don't want to see an open-carry squad automatic weapon, a bandoleer of grenades, and sidearms on drop forward holsters on both legs. Hide that stuff somewhere, anywhere, or you're going to be running from the cops rather than towards your target. Improvise with what you can conceal, and proceed to the target, and come back for your stuff later.

This is way more immersive than fast traveling to the Bank Of Cyberpunk, depositing unneeded gear in complete security, and fast traveling back. That's just for example, but it makes you more a part of the world to use it in such a way.

To me storage is basically the only reason I care about houses, but storing around the world - as cool as it sounds - doesn't make much sense to me outside of nomad playstyles. Id rarely go anywhere without the things I need already on me, and if I found myself lacking in anything I imagine shops would be just as common as stash points. There are probably rare random exceptions but planning ahead for these would be hard and more work than toughing it out IMO.

Where are your other things that you don't really need right now, then?

 

[guidokpd]

The problem with stashing things in places with out locks is that other people can find them.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

The cache concept has always been very important to my 2020 characters.

The most common ones I used were vents, loose floor boards and bus station lockers.

 

[Mikedudeh]

I see how gear caches can become cumbersome, but the premise that there is a "bank" where your stuff is 100% safe like in MMOs, or where you have near infinite inventory, like in Fallout, are conventions I decided were worth providing a worldly alternative to, because they would destroy a piece of the beautiful immersion Mike Pondsmith envisions for sheer convenience, along the lines of : I'm not saving me from the world anymore, because my things are 100% safe already.

Another way this would be useful is if you're on a mission, and you're following a target you intend to kill, but he enters a high security club or a really nice part of town, and you don't have time to wait it out. The police here don't want to see an open-carry squad automatic weapon, a bandoleer of grenades, and sidearms on drop forward holsters on both legs. Hide that stuff somewhere, anywhere, or you're going to be running from the cops rather than towards your target. Improvise with what you can conceal, and proceed to the target, and come back for your stuff later.

This is way more immersive than fast traveling to the Bank Of Cyberpunk, depositing unneeded gear in complete security, and fast traveling back. That's just for example, but it makes you more a part of the world to use it in such a way.



Where are your other things that you don't really need right now, then?

I keep my stuff at one spot, like my house or ect. depending on the game.

People that care about immersion can do what I do and store their stuff separately, armor and guns in large separate containers that are long enough to fit them, documents in desks, small trinkets in safes, crafting items/misc in crates, ect. Or storage can be assigned inventory restrictions, though I bet that would piss off more people than it would make happy. For me houses are an answer that's never needed to be questioned. And I would be every surprised if with all the hidden pockets, compartments, and implants in 2022 doesn't translate into cdpr adding an effective way to bring weapons into places where they shouldn't be.

I prefer to plan ahead of missions too but I do it at my personal "batcave", packing light with the things I might need. Spreading your stuff out makes it hard to mix and match your arsenal for the task ahead. Sure everything's safe there but that would be the same for the storage spots on the streets or no one would put their stuff there. As far as danger I've before suggested your home not be safe. You constantly stumble into random events like waking up with a gun to your head, walking in to an ambush or even a robbery, and finding your favorite gun or suit gone and a small clue as to where it is or who took it, making the game more perpetual. I believe everything in 2077 should be a struggle, holding on to fame, wealth, power, items, and friends included.

And that Chow Yun Fat scene (and most the ideas in this thread IMHO) can be reproduced easily by simply dropping weapons on the ground somewhere. It still doesn't explain why I should waste my money on multiple weapons when one (or two if your still being Chow) is enough and there are probably plenty of other expensive toys to save up for. I'm not trying to discredit your idea, I think its cool, but I question whether it holds enough benefits to justify the time it would take to implement them. And to be the fair the OP did ask for my opinion

But please keep going, to my delight I'm becoming increasingly swayed.

 

[Sydanyo]

Linear frame, cyberlimbs and a shipping container on my back. That's how it's done, boys and girls.

 

[Poet_and_Gentleman.598]

Another way this would be useful is if you're on a mission, and you're following a target you intend to kill, but he enters a high security club or a really nice part of town, and you don't have time to wait it out. The police here don't want to see an open-carry squad automatic weapon, a bandoleer of grenades, and sidearms on drop forward holsters on both legs.Hide that stuff somewhere, anywhere, or you're going to be running from the cops rather than towards your target. Improvise with what you can conceal, and proceed to the target, and come back for your stuff later.

Shame on your character sir, shame on your character.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uu37X1JvVJM

 

[Lolssi83.811]

I played New Vegas on Hardcore and bullets had weight in it, so I was constantly struggling what to drop. I could still carry way too much stuff but it was something like five weapons and armor on me. Never could I really pick up anything to sell later. I'm also the kind of player that does want to keep all his gear with him and not run back to get them. Witcher 2 I used "magic" containers only to store crafting materials.

That said I really like this idea of hidden places, but I'd like it to be so that someone can find your stash and you might encounter them later. Wouldn't wanna loose something really important now would we?
For example you stash gun into a toilet of a bar. You come back and find out the gun is gone. You start conversation with bartender and find out there was maintenance guy fixing the toilet earlier. With information from bartender you could then track down said maintenance guy.
Or perhaps you find no clues but after a fight loot some foe and find out he had "your" stuff.

Also wouldn't wanna see that you just drop items and they stay there on the ground. Granted it is better than items just magically dissappearing, but I'd like to see npcs coming and picking that stuff up. Not if you're still standing right next to said items, but when they think they can get away with it.

 

[dekkarius]

I appreciate you guys commenting on my idea!

Lolssi, I like where you're going with that. By 2077 they better have something pretty good at lifting fingerprints, looking for DNA, tracking down loose fibers, and generally investigating who it was that was in my cache that caused something to go missing. That could be a fun side-mission directly relating to the use of caches.. figuring out who took your stuff! Maybe you could interrogate a few nearby squatters, and put things together. Maybe it was 20 bullets and you'll never know or care enough to find out, but maybe it was a nice gun and it'll be worth the effort.

Poet, I think we can all appreciate that view. Get it done, and get it done loudly, violently, and without consideration of consequence! Rock and roll.

MacLeod, you crazy cyborg, may you never have to fit into a tight place, and also can you carry my ammo? Haha!

Whisperfoot, I like your batcave concept and I look at caches as an extension to that. As you said, your home should NOT be fully safe. Which means maybe you come back one day, and the police are everywhere or there are some thugs outside you're not prepared to go through to get home. In that case, the ammo you were hoping to stock up on is temporarily compromised. If you have a few caches of ammo you can get to in a pinch, you won't be out of luck and can get stuff done while things blow over.

And Chris... you know exactly where I'm coming from. Awesome!

 

[Sydanyo]

I've always had a bit of a problem leaving stuff I come across just laying around. For example, in the TES series and FO3/NV, I usually look into every container, and pick up pretty much anything and everything useful. This has meant that in Skyrim, for example, I've had to get a couple mods that add bags.

Stuff like ammunition is a bit tricky, because it should come in boxes or magazines, but then you couldn't carry very much. Having just a pile of ammo, with a single virtual magazine in the weapon is very easy, but it's not very realistic. I think it might be fun if the inventory system was somehow a bit smarter, in that the volume of gear would be taken into account, and this would be especially the case with ammunition. If you'd want to switch out a magazine for your pistol, you'd have the extras handy somewhere. If they'd run out of ammo, you could refill them from the box of ammo you're carrying, but that would take time.

Then there's guns. Imagine finding something extremely awesome you'd love to take with you, but just can't because you can't carry it. So, you have to leave that rifle worth thousands lying on the ground and go about your business.

Basically, if you go for a very low amount inventory, then you should limit it logically, by volume and places you can attach your magazines and so on. If you just attach a weight for items, and disregard the volume, then you should allow people to craft/buy bigger bags. I mean, you know those bags hockey goalies use? You can fit about 50 rifles in one. Why can't I buy one and carry it around with me? My linear frame and cyber limbs allow me to pick up a pickup, so why not a measly bag?

Remember Neo in Matrix, in the lobby scene?

[video=youtube;Es2uYtSJh-Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es2uYtSJh-Y[/video]

Allow for that, except not necessarily two similar pistols/SMGs, and no need to go akimbo. Then allow for an extra magazine or two for each weapon. Then swing a rifle on the back, and when finishing combat and moving to a new area, just grab the sport bag or hockey bag with your gear and be on your way.

Caches would be good to hold sustenance if you require any, and hold some extra ammunition and magazines, as well as possibly new basic gear, if there's a possibility you can lose your old. Other than that just carry the shit with you.

 

[Lolssi83.811]

I mean, you know those bags hockey goalies use? You can fit about 50 rifles in one. Why can't I buy one and carry it around with me? My linear frame and cyber limbs allow me to pick up a pickup, so why not a measly bag?

Remember Neo in Matrix, in the lobby scene?

[video=youtube;Es2uYtSJh-Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es2uYtSJh-Y[/video]

Allow for that, except not necessarily two similar pistols/SMGs, and no need to go akimbo. Then allow for an extra magazine or two for each weapon. Then swing a rifle on the back, and when finishing combat and moving to a new area, just grab the sport bag or hockey bag with your gear and be on your way.

Good thing you meantioned cyber limbs because even assuming that our character is really fit, he just wouldn't carry goalie bag full of guns and ammo everywhere Plus even if the bags have gotten better in recent years they wouldn't hold that kind of weight very long, but I'm sure they have some amazing fabrics in 2077.

 

[Sydanyo]

Well, true. People have a limit as to what they can lift and carry, and bags of all kinds also have a limit as to what they can handle, but if you suspend disbelief just a bit, you can come up with something that's a bit nicer than just the typical bag of holding -style inventory where X is the max weight.

The point really was though that for example weapons could have logical spots you could put them in and still access them quickly, as well as magazines. Then there'd be a bag or two that could hold a certain volume, and if you give items a volume, you could decide whether they fit. For example, you could assign a length to a rifle, and then have the dimensions of a bag, and that would tell the software whether that particular rifle can fit in the bag or not. If not, then you'd get an error saying "you can't fit that item in that container", or something similar. If it'd be just a bunch of small items, they could have a total volume, and then just subtract that from the bag's volume.

That, rather than just the weight, would in my mind be much nicer as far as inventory goes. That would allow us to be limited as far as how much we can haul in a fun way, and then we could have those gear caches.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

I highly recommend that you guys talking about potential inventory systems have a look at this thread:
www.cyberpunk.net/forum/en/threads/1449-How-many-weapons-do-you-want-to-carry?

I want to see a relatively realistic inventory system and any fast travel should be disabled when you are near enemies. That is a good reason for caches. A better one is the ability to store gear you can't carry right now so you can pick it up later.

I would like to be able to tag said caches on the map and add a personal note.

 

[cycoholic]

I think that the idea of having staches of gear scattered around town would be a great idea. Maybe as an example of 'forward planning', where you know that there's going to be a metric buttload of lead flying, and you just can't carry enough hardware (firearms/ammo) with you. Or maybe just simply as a stash 'for a rainy day'. And as mentioned, that time when you just want to hide something because you don't.can't weigh yourself down any more, and don't want the local skum to come along and get some free hardware.

But, there needs to be a chance that as time goes on, there's a chance of it 'going missing'. If you find that nice piece of euro hardware, but for whatever reason you can't carry it away at the time, you stash it somewhere. But you better come back soon, or it could be gone tomorrow. But maybe it was just a 'generic' Wonder9, but some creep was lurking around the periphery of your vision, and you didn't want him picking it up. So you stash it. It might take weeks for it to 'go missing', but it's really just a 'low interest' piece to you, so, who cares? But, if you find yourself in the same general whereabouts and low on firearms (what, you slipping up or getting too complacent??), and think you're being tailed, that Wonder9 may just still be there, and that Wonder9 may just save your life.

I think it would be a great idea to implement.

 

[Sydanyo]

ChrisWebb2020, having caches is directly related to inventory in that if you have an infinite inventory, there's absolutely no reason whatsoever to have caches. That's why I was trying to tie inventory into this discussion, and I'd rather not jump between two threads in one discussion. The less you can carry, the more caches make sense, and not being able to carry much could be done in a smart and fun way, rather than just limiting the carrying capability by weight. That's all I was saying with the inventory stuff, you know.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

ChrisWebb2020, having caches is directly related to inventory in that if you have an infinite inventory, there's absolutely no reason whatsoever to have caches. That's why I was trying to tie inventory into this discussion, and I'd rather not jump between two threads in one discussion. The less you can carry, the more caches make sense, and not being able to carry much could be done in a smart and fun way, rather than just limiting the carrying capability by weight. That's all I was saying with the inventory stuff, you know.

That's fine, but I was just pointing out that there is an inventory thread, (for those that are unaware.)