Where I Would Love to See Additions Inside the Story

[Hayte]

I mean you are making my point for me. The scavs are even worse. 6th Street is terrible. Maelstrom is also terrible. One of the cyberpsycho missions involved Maelstrom gangers implanting a guy against his will for laughs until he had a total breakdown.

Wakako is an interesting character because in dialogue, V is clearly not enthused by the fact she has Tyger Claw associations. When you ask her about the XBD supplier as part of Disasterpiece, V takes her to task over it because she is protecting the identity of some incredibly shitty people. Wakako makes a point that she can't ask too many questions or pry too deeply into the activities of elicit BD dealers, because people start getting killed (or worse) and her job as a fixer becomes untenable. You make up your own mind about her.

 

[pndrad]

I mean you are making my point for me. The scavs are even worse. 6th Street is terrible. Maelstrom is also terrible. One of the cyberpsycho missions involved Maelstrom gangers implanting a guy against his will for laughs until he had a total breakdown.

Wakako is an interesting character because in dialogue, V is clearly not enthused by the fact she has Tyger Claw associations. When you ask her about the XBD supplier as part of Disasterpiece, V takes her to task over it because she is protecting the identity of some incredibly shitty people. Wakako makes a point that she can't ask too many questions or pry too deeply into the activities of elicit BD dealers, because people start getting killed (or worse) and her job as a fixer becomes untenable. You make up your own mind about her.

I just said those gangs don't make sense for V to work with, but the Moxes, Animals, and the Valentinoes that follow Padjre might. Also Fixers are more powerful then Wanako makes out, mess with one and the others won't work with you.

 

[theBlackDragon]

2. Expand the Johnny-V relationship in phase 2. Just a few more conversations, maybe short named gigs, to smooth the transitions, expand on Johnny's view on things (and et V respond to it) between "I'm just using you to attack 'saka!" and "V, have these tags". In addition, since the game has a running thing about what makes an identity an identity, your relationship with death, ship of Theseus, and of course at what price glory...you know, it wouldn't be bad to have a couple talks/gigs related to those ideas.

I'd like some more involvement of your friends here as well. There's basically no dialogue between V and their friends about Johnny. Especially the LIs get short-changed (at least Misty and Viktor really know what's up). Especially after "Chippin' In" I really expected to be able to at least talk to some of the major characters, but nope, nothing. That was a pretty big disappointment, to be quite honest.

I'd just like to be able to discuss more things with them in general, there's a few other questchains that are such that a bottle of something strong and someone to talk to seemed like a pretty natural fit (eg. the whole crucifixion questchain)

 

[CS554]

The Tyger Claws don't want another riot, and the current leader of the Moxes is anti conflict so that works in the Tyger Claws favor.
V isn't a Mox so the Tyger Claws can wipe them out without problems. V could be an extremely powerful ally to the Moxes however as V has worked with and for some very powerful people in night city.
The Moxes could be used by Militech to gather information on certain important clients, and in return get money and equipment. Its not like they have to announce their partnership. Also it would keep Militech personal away from certain Tyger Claw businesses.

Also it was just an example I came up with. To really counter the Arasaka gang combo you would need multiple gangs, as The Tyger Claws and the Maelstrom both have ties to Arasaka.

The Moxes greatest asset isn't any of the named factions or V but the biggest faction out there, the public. That enables current status quo that allows them to be neutral and mind their own business. Every faction also benefits from this status quo. If Moxes would allow their business to be used for espionage, every faction would either try to use that, or wipe them out. In fact, greatest benefactor from shaking things up would likely be Tyger Claws who could take over that business via human trafficking and other means.

Involving other gangs is non solution as they would just take over Moxes business, if they wanted to get involved to begin with and then why would they? Gangs benefit from chaos that allows them to operate and expand their business while Militech and Arasaka has their main focus locked to each other.

But for the sake of discussion, let's say V would able to broker a deal with the Animals and the Valentinos and Moxes. That would put their total number to about 9250 members. Then what?

• Focusing that to Tyger Claws would leave their zones of control vulnerable for rest of the gangs taking them over.
• Militech might want to get involved but can't because of history, 4th corporate war. They can offer intel, but they really must limit their influence and their power in the Night City doesn't equal Arasaka, whom currently have one of their supercarriers, the Whale parked near Night City. Even if it wouldn't, how does gang fight against better equipped Arasaka soldiers and their AV-4's or their equivalent of Basilisk?
• If situation escalated results would be something really catastrophic for citizens of Night City including gangs.

So V might try to broker something but result would likely result Animals or Valentinos selling V out to Arasaka, as they do benefit from status quo too.

This flow chart stuff, anyone can make one, though I'm not saying people shouldn't make suggestions. I do hope though that more players would perhaps take a closer look to power dynamics in game. It reflects why real life gangs and related crime is difficult to fight and sure one could be fought but then other would just take its place.

For expanding the story purposes there are many ways to do that, there are special kind of situations where it could be convenient for a gang to use outsider, mercenary like V that could allow players to get more insight to not one but few other factions in Night City, 6th Street and their Battle Cabb business for example.

 

[pndrad]

The Moxes greatest asset isn't any of the named factions or V but the biggest faction out there, the public. That enables current status quo that allows them to be neutral and mind their own business. Every faction also benefits from this status quo. If Moxes would allow their business to be used for espionage, every faction would either try to use that, or wipe them out. In fact, greatest benefactor from shaking things up would likely be Tyger Claws who could take over that business via human trafficking and other means.

Involving other gangs is non solution as they would just take over Moxes business, if they wanted to get involved to begin with and then why would they? Gangs benefit from chaos that allows them to operate and expand their business while Militech and Arasaka has their main focus locked to each other.

But for the sake of discussion, let's say V would able to broker a deal with the Animals and the Valentinos and Moxes. That would put their total number to about 9250 members. Then what?

• Focusing that to Tyger Claws would leave their zones of control vulnerable for rest of the gangs taking them over.
• Militech might want to get involved but can't because of history, 4th corporate war. They can offer intel, but they really must limit their influence and their power in the Night City doesn't equal Arasaka, whom currently have one of their supercarriers, the Whale parked near Night City. Even if it wouldn't, how does gang fight against better equipped Arasaka soldiers and their AV-4's or their equivalent of Basilisk?
• If situation escalated results would be something really catastrophic for citizens of Night City including gangs.

So V might try to broker something but result would likely result Animals or Valentinos selling V out to Arasaka, as they do benefit from status quo too.

This flow chart stuff, anyone can make one, though I'm not saying people shouldn't make suggestions. I do hope though that more players would perhaps take a closer look to power dynamics in game. It reflects why real life gangs and related crime is difficult to fight and sure one could be fought but then other would just take its place.

For expanding the story purposes there are many ways to do that, there are special kind of situations where it could be convenient for a gang to use outsider, mercenary like V that could allow players to get more insight to not one but few other factions in Night City, 6th Street and their Battle Cabb business for example.

The status quo is also the Moxes greatest weakness. While other gangs grow stronger the Moxes actually grow weaker. Judy is an example of this, she joined to help make a difference, but eventually ended up taking things into her own hands.
Also proxy wars have been fought before. Its not like Militech is going to announce they're in a relationship with gangs. The only thing Arasaka and Militech have to avoid is leaving evidence of their involvement.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

This diagram is really silly. "What we wanted" is a game that has four times more content and that is absurd. Its even more laborious than the number implies because its four times more content that has to be designed and structured in such a way that accounts for millions of players doing things out of sequence and generally doing what players do, which is break everything.

Don't even get me started on things like "work with gangs". The gangs of Cyberpunk are the most abhorrent people in the in-game universe. We are talking people who participate in snuff porn, human trafficking, torture and rape (sometimes all four at the same time).

well in their defense.
valentinos, and mox ain't insanely bad. Even sixth street isn't that bad in some quests. An the VDBs, actually defend and improve the lives of their civilian populations.

scavs and maelstrom are just villains, and Tigerclaw's just seem like faceless criminals. What are they even about? Animals are just thugs who want to get diesel.

 

[lynxir]

scavs and maelstrom are just villains, and Tigerclaw's just seem like faceless criminals. What are they even about? Animals are just thugs who want to get diesel.

I mean Brick, Dum Dum and that nice drunken Maelstrom dude in the Totentanz elevator weren't so bad - maybe instead of allying with factions V could become friends with some gang members? Without sharing all of their beliefs of course.

Post automatically merged: Feb 17, 2021

Before launching in to this, I should lay it out that I basically see the game in four phases.

1. Essentially ACT 1, which has some of the best missions in the game, solid characters, and good writing. Its only weakness is that it is quite short, and that some of the character development referenced later in the game doesn't get time to blossom. Side gigs are flavorful if not too complex, and generally decently thought out.

2. Probably the weakest phase of the game, think of it as ACT 2A. Starts off with a bang - but then gets a bit lackluster. The main arcs for Takemura and Panam are decent, with some cool set piece moments, but not stellar. The Judy-Ev story is good. The relationship with Johnny and the Relic is kind of...arbitrary in it's development. Short bursts of jarring exposition rather than a smooth evolution. And the side gigs are the most filler-esque.

3. But then you finish up with the VDBs and all of a sudden the game explodes. Call it ACT 2.5 It's a pity it keeps trying to shove you to Nocturne, because more or less all of the best character arcs happen here, the side gigs get better again, more and more arc'd gigs come in, and just generally speaking you go "Ah! This is where the Witcher side-quest team went!" but you'll never know unless you ignore that auto-default to the end game.

4. Then the endings. I actually really like the whole endgame sequence, including the endings. I think this is strong, though I realize there are those who disagree.

--------------

Great, so why bother saying any of that? Because this is where I would love to see the current story buffed up before we start playing with Romancing the Crystal Palace or whatnot.

1. Maybe just one more main line mission in act 1 before the Konpeki trio. Something to really flesh out the relationship between Jackie, T-Bug, and V, and most importantly to cement this idea that yes, Jackie and V really do both want to be legends/rich. That particular thread is referenced on and off haphazardly, yet is supposed to be a central motivation to kick start V's rise.

2. Expand the Johnny-V relationship in phase 2. Just a few more conversations, maybe short named gigs, to smooth the transitions, expand on Johnny's view on things (and et V respond to it) between "I'm just using you to attack 'saka!" and "V, have these tags". In addition, since the game has a running thing about what makes an identity an identity, your relationship with death, ship of Theseus, and of course at what price glory...you know, it wouldn't be bad to have a couple talks/gigs related to those ideas.

3. For the love of god, please improve the early-mid game side gigs.

4. If you did the thematic set up work in 1 and 2, I bet any will feel less blindsided by some of the endings.

I'd love to see a deeper dive into cyberspace, rogue AIs, soulkiller, basically everything connected to Alt's story to somehow better prepare us for the endings in a way. Also I was super disappointed by the VDB-story being cut so short - they had much more potential imo. As a netrunner my first V was really hoping to learn something from them and to make a few connections there. Also it still bugs me, that the important choices you make (NetWatch or VDB, Dex or Evelyn,...) don't matter at all in the end.

 

[GloriousRuse]

Accepting that they aren't about to program Mount & Blade: But Cyberpunk and With Engaging Characters rather then Generic Options without basically writing a new engine (and an entirely different story based on carving an empire rather than getting in the ring with an opponent who's gonna knock you flat, but fighting the good fight anyhow.) I think we can say that vast new organizational interactions are unlikely.

But I fully support the idea that a little more character interaction - which is comparatively cheap, dev wise - would go a long way. While I would like one more mission between Dorsett and the Heist Trio, optimally with it clear Jackie and V are sick and tired of doing little shit, and hoping someone will notice - maybe with T-bug talking about how she thinks an old friend might be back in town. But if you can't do that, after Dex gives you the briefing, one last night in the Afterlife talking with Jackie about life, misty, getting big, and everything. It can literally be a conversation at the bar.

Same character models, same bar seat, maybe 30-40 lines of conversation. A world of difference in understanding.

Likewise just leaving a small hint of choice - it can be nothing more than a throw off line from Alt, or a mention on a news show - about some of the bigger choices. The Pickup does this very well, with the multiple routes ending with two small quest variations later,, but even a smaller pay out would be nice - it could literally be a call from Mr. Hands or a N54 broadcast talking about Pacifica going nut with dead leaders, or a comment from Rogue about how it was ironic Dex said you were trustworthy before he betrayed you vs. yeah, he betrayed you, but I heard a rumor you were thinking of doing the same to him...don't try that with me.

 

[CS554]

For those who are interested in faction play and how to come up with scenarios with them, I found very good source of information that sets the foundation for power dynamic in the Night City. It goes back to 1998 and assasination of Richard Night (whom city was named after).

What happened after that is explained in a video way more in depth regarding what happened in Night City after assassination than Wiki does. Video is from the Mad Queen featuring J. Gray from R. Talsorian Games (creators of tabletop).
MIKE PONDSMITH INGAME LORE PART #1 - The World of Cyberpunk 2077 with R. Talsorian Games

Section relevant to gangs / mobs starts at about 1:33.10

Really recommend checking this out.

 

[Villamar]

Personally I found Act 1 to be quite good even if it is linear. I thought the characters were good and the writing was tight. It introduced the main "problem" and was a good into into the world.

As for Act 2, it was not as well done as Act 1 but was still enjoyable and had me hooked. Side gigs, some side quests, NCPD scanner, exploration - those are all part of the world build. I thought some of them had great arcs and were well written and enjoyable, but ultimately they are not part of the story. Even then I agree with some other posters here in that it could have used more dialogue and interactions with V's friends/cronies for verisimilitude, and as some other people have suggested a deeper dive into certain aspects of the world. Imho these are good ideas.

Act 3, well...someone earlier call it "abrupt and atrocious." Very true. I wrote about this in another thread but the players were pawns in stories thought up by the writers and the endings did not reflect the stories "created" by the players in their play-through.

I think that can be fixed and I've got my fingers crossed because I otherwise really enjoyed the game.