Some people just make builds that are fun, instead of going online to find maximized builds then complain the game is too easy. I keep spamming quen WHY AREN'T I TAKING DAMAGES!?!?
I don't agree with your view, sorry. The fact that people want to play all the content of this fantastic game is because they (we, I include myself) like it. I personally like all of it, from the fantastic main story to the care and love of the secondary ones.
However, because of the way the secondary quests are designed, it's like they 'force' the player to play them at a specific time, for 2 reasons:
- If you outlevel them too much, there is little or no XP reward, and also the loot (diagrams, weapons, etc.) are probably badly outlevelled too, so basically the reward is peanuts and not interesting.
- If you outlevel the quest, most likely the difficulty will also be very low. If you are the kind of player who plays in "Death March" and you like challenges, you don't feel interested on playing very easy quests.
You mention that players complained about auto-level in Oblivion. Fair enough. I am the other kind of player who complains about no-autolevel at all. If CDPR wants to make everyone happy, there's no point complaining that there are people with different tastes who will complain. Do options, or mods, to enable auto-levelling. Or accept some people will complain. Currently the secondary quests "force you" to play them in order and almost above the main quest, just not to outlevel them too much. If that's done on purpose for some of them, well done. Honestly, with that happening in ALL of them, I have to say it's personally a bad idea. Takes me out of the game main story and restricts my freedom (I know that by skipping them now and coming back to them later, I'm screwing the experience).
And second, as a player, I expect a good game to provide the rules to play satisfactorily, not to have to force rules myself. If secondary quests can be TOO easy and boring at some point, it's a defect of the game and playing with one hand at the back or with Geralt in underwear is a solution for crappy games. A good one provides the proper option itself.
As for suggestions, it's a pity that there's a strong 'anti-autolevel' group of users, but I would suggest implementing auto-level at least as an option for the secondary quests that are not story-related. Or CDPR could create some story-excuse (like the Wild Hunt becoming more powerful and the corruption of the land becoming stronger with the time) so when you outlevel quests for more than 10 levels, they increase level and difficulty.
I have to add that I think CDPR did something 'wrong' (in my opinion, of course) with the levels and content of the game. I would say it's pretty standard that when players just start a game they will need some directions and will probably follow 'the given path', therefore concentrating on the main quest and some secondary ones. And the more the player advances, the more eager s/he is about getting more content, find more things, and separate more from the given path. CDPR seems to have done it the other way round: throws a ton of secondary quests and content to the player when he starts the game, moving him away from the main story, and then when the player is very high level, there's not much to do (specially because s/he has f**** outlevelled 90% of the game quests).
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For some people, making mathematical optimal builds IS fun. Are you implying their style of play isn't legitimate?
I'm not using a cookie cutter build, I'm using my own build created with my own brain and knowledge of game mechanics. But even with that build the game is too easy.
I remember my first rpg running around on super nintendo farming mobs for hours to get my levels up and whoop the games ass. I've yet to see this element change, nor do I think it should.
But despite the fact, that is rpg, I feel the xp from equal or higher level quests is far too much. I imagine the games balanced to accommodate enough xp to keep your level up should you choose to just play the story. I personally am against that, I feel some grind is nessicary to pace the game better... and in this aspect the game has a ton of poi to cause this, if you choose to. its all prefrence, do you prefer mindless slaughter for hours, or exploring a vast world and seek mysterious treasure. or a balance.
if I had one valid arguement here, its that the hardest settings diffculty needs to be more ruthless, if we're playing the hardest setting it should be intended for some to not be able to beat it, unless they really hone their skill and learn to play the game flawlessly utilizing all the mechanics. id like to add that I felt this level of difficulty from 1-15. after that I got into witcher gear and weapons and I went from "if I dont run ill die" to "you better run cause I can mash attack now"
as with all games I cant imagine the struggle teams go thru with game balance. its imo the hardest feat to polish a game off with. its never gonna be perfect, cause we as people differ in intrests. try to put yourself in these guys shoes as they decide what to do and not to do.
But despite the fact, that is rpg, I feel the xp from equal or higher level quests is far too much. I imagine the games balanced to accommodate enough xp to keep your level up should you choose to just play the story. I personally am against that, I feel some grind is nessicary to pace the game better... and in this aspect the game has a ton of poi to cause this, if you choose to. its all prefrence, do you prefer mindless slaughter for hours, or exploring a vast world and seek mysterious treasure. or a balance.
if I had one valid arguement here, its that the hardest settings diffculty needs to be more ruthless, if we're playing the hardest setting it should be intended for some to not be able to beat it, unless they really hone their skill and learn to play the game flawlessly utilizing all the mechanics. id like to add that I felt this level of difficulty from 1-15. after that I got into witcher gear and weapons and I went from "if I dont run ill die" to "you better run cause I can mash attack now"
as with all games I cant imagine the struggle teams go thru with game balance. its imo the hardest feat to polish a game off with. its never gonna be perfect, cause we as people differ in intrests. try to put yourself in these guys shoes as they decide what to do and not to do.
Truth is, every Witcher game has stat systems that can be 'abused'. I one-shotted a boss in TW1 with an ignii blast because I knew that was his weakness, and after getting my ass kicked in the previous play through I built an ignii powerful build for the next. It was perfectly logical and gratifying. But in this case, it seems they didn't balance the amount of xp you get doing side quests so that over leveling is an issue. Can't they just lower the xp reward per quest to fix this?
It's not because you just increase the stats of encounters to compensate. You can create an algorithm to predict an outcome. Without stats and all relied on skills it is not easy to understand which difficulty the encounters must be at the stages you will be in. You need to tailor perfectly the balance of skills or elsewhere you can create builds completely unbalanced one with the other. Naturally it can be done, it is just more difficult to balance. Hence why I don't know many games that go with a system like that. Also all of those that are linear (as for example Batman) there are anyway skills that increase stats in some way.
And in one of the complains of W3 is the lack of proper scaling. It is not a casualty. Apart this, then, without stats every kind of scaling is entirely tied to how much the skills introduced with generate a sense of progression. Also here, it can be done, certainly, but taking care of this plus taking care that they are balanced one another (so that then the encounter can be balanced under different scenarios) is not very simple. It's already complicated with stats (as you can see in the game, even if CDPR has never been so good with this aspect) with no stat increase it becomes even more complicated as everything is based on these points. It's not that there aren't games that do it, in fact some platformers do, but there the thing is a little simpler as the levels are linear.
This is why the game is easy on hardest, because of people like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YWA-NESqaQ
Normal mode. Heh.
Normal mode. Heh.
Guild Wars Original did this really well, you'd get to level 20 as an intro, then it was pure skill-based. The only thing that actually changes is the complexity of skills/talents you acquire -- and the complexity versus skills/talents of mob (scaling to your abilities). It was beautifully done, pretty much a level-less experience. I spent several years trying to convince ArenaNet the mistaken path of GW2, but alas.. rip.
@Sardukhar, that's awesome that CDPR sees the value in this and is building Cyberpunk's foundation on skill based gaming. Funcom tried it with early AoC, but the WoW whine freaked out the publishers causing a dysfunction of intent, and then Secret World, but Funcom really lost all momentum after the AoC flip-flop.
Best I've found was heavily modded skyrim; built primarily towards level irrelevance, per Skill-based Gameplay; and now I'm eyeing a hopefully moddable TW3 as the next skill-based adventure. The talent tree of W3 is a perfect example of Skill-Based structure -- or Talent Builds, limited, but complex enough for variety. The canvas W3 provides is exceptional for skill-based. Not sure why they opted for hybrid stat grind, perhaps gating content, or the greater client base needing an easy way to cheeze through the content by leveling past it.
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You don't have to go online for that. Basic common sense will lead to a build that is OP.
I have 30k gold at level 22 or so now, with looting only what doesn't look owned/needed anymore and buying all recipes and such that I can find. (Collector's edition ^^ - for the hoard!)My first play-though I looted every container in every house and had 30k gold at the end of the game. Only to find out that there is not much to do with gold or 99% of the stuff I saved. So for my second play-though I am not going to do any "loot-whoring" and will only loot from enemies. No robbing the poor this time around
The Novigrad smiths were chronically out of funds. Really pained me when I had to sell a sword for 900 in Skellige instead of for 1100 in Novigrad, haha.
I agree with you and I also want to add to my previous post that I want to congratulate the team for the job well done.
However, please also keep in mind that this game is very different from other old and linear RPGs. One of the most important feats of this amazing game is the amount of freedom and "optional content and quests" that it has. Doing something this big implies much more merit, but also more work is necessary to keep it well balanced (as uncle Ben would say, "a great power implies a great responsibility").
Personally, unpopular as my opinion will be, I honestly think a game this big needs either or a super-team to balance it (which means redisigning lots of things, starting from the level and XP system) or, more realistically, implement auto-balance for some things. From level, XP and difficulty of the quests (just auto-adjust it on the fly to not be far too much lower-higher than the player's level, unless intended) to the reward and loot upgraded accordingly.
The player will never know if the missions, loot, etc. are auto-adjusting (unless not correctly done) but will feel that every quest and mission is enjoyable and rewarding. If you choose to play on Death March you won't be surprised if there are areas were enemies kick your ass, but something is wrong if a bit early in the game you are already a God over-equipped, overlevelled, and rich. And diminishing your advances in XP is not a good solution as ideally the player should be able to unlock all levels and abilities at the end of the game (at least, the entire game).
My only 'solution', honestly, is a lot of auto-level, at least pumping difficulty and rewards up. If it's not ideal, other ideas may be better. The current design of the game is not, IMO
However, please also keep in mind that this game is very different from other old and linear RPGs. One of the most important feats of this amazing game is the amount of freedom and "optional content and quests" that it has. Doing something this big implies much more merit, but also more work is necessary to keep it well balanced (as uncle Ben would say, "a great power implies a great responsibility").
Personally, unpopular as my opinion will be, I honestly think a game this big needs either or a super-team to balance it (which means redisigning lots of things, starting from the level and XP system) or, more realistically, implement auto-balance for some things. From level, XP and difficulty of the quests (just auto-adjust it on the fly to not be far too much lower-higher than the player's level, unless intended) to the reward and loot upgraded accordingly.
The player will never know if the missions, loot, etc. are auto-adjusting (unless not correctly done) but will feel that every quest and mission is enjoyable and rewarding. If you choose to play on Death March you won't be surprised if there are areas were enemies kick your ass, but something is wrong if a bit early in the game you are already a God over-equipped, overlevelled, and rich. And diminishing your advances in XP is not a good solution as ideally the player should be able to unlock all levels and abilities at the end of the game (at least, the entire game).
My only 'solution', honestly, is a lot of auto-level, at least pumping difficulty and rewards up. If it's not ideal, other ideas may be better. The current design of the game is not, IMO
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There is no need at all for level scaling to address this massive issue of out-levelling everything in the game early on. Main quests give insane amounts of exp and so do most contracts. Why did they do it this way is the real question. Do they think modern gamers absolutely have to level super fast to be satisfied?
Who did they make the game for? Answer that question and you will get to the root of this problem. This game of all games should be made for people who love RPG's not people who tolerate them and want to skip most quests and just get to the end.
Drop the ridiculous amounts of exp for main quests and contracts and this problem will be gone. Soooooooooo many threads about it on here, zero reaction from CDPR. Disappointing.
Who did they make the game for? Answer that question and you will get to the root of this problem. This game of all games should be made for people who love RPG's not people who tolerate them and want to skip most quests and just get to the end.
Drop the ridiculous amounts of exp for main quests and contracts and this problem will be gone. Soooooooooo many threads about it on here, zero reaction from CDPR. Disappointing.
Also, another thing "kind of" related with this XP issue is the absurdity of the equipment levels:
- You can perfectly find Relic/magic/whatever equipment for level 9 (for example) that is 40 points stronger than similar equipment at level 10.
- You can find diagrams for equipment 5 levels higher than yours that is, anyway, 15 points weaker than the one you currently have.
What's the point of this? Why is the levelling of weapons/armor so abrupt, unbalanced and illogical? Maybe the loot designer thought it was a good idea to leave some 'relic' equipment at level X that is so uberpowerful that it beats good equipment at level X+5. Problem is, if that overlevelled equipment is not super-difficult to find, the player who finds it stays for the next 5-6 hours of gameplay without any interest on the equipment he may find, because most of it is rubbish compared with the previous one.
And same thing happens with armor. Actually, it's even worse, because quite often super-powerful armors are also horrendous, and you have to choose between dressing like a clown or stupidly choose looks over effectivity (a thing that Geralt or any warrior would never do, pulling you out of the game).
It's unnecessary and very sad. Having such a rich and big world, it could be full of balanced equipment with different properties and looks (more or less runestones spaces, different properties in exchange of small differences in power/defense...).
Instead of that, there are rubbish equipment or super-mega-overlevelled unique items, that once you find you are done for the next 3 hours. Jesus, guys, c'mon...
- You can perfectly find Relic/magic/whatever equipment for level 9 (for example) that is 40 points stronger than similar equipment at level 10.
- You can find diagrams for equipment 5 levels higher than yours that is, anyway, 15 points weaker than the one you currently have.
What's the point of this? Why is the levelling of weapons/armor so abrupt, unbalanced and illogical? Maybe the loot designer thought it was a good idea to leave some 'relic' equipment at level X that is so uberpowerful that it beats good equipment at level X+5. Problem is, if that overlevelled equipment is not super-difficult to find, the player who finds it stays for the next 5-6 hours of gameplay without any interest on the equipment he may find, because most of it is rubbish compared with the previous one.
And same thing happens with armor. Actually, it's even worse, because quite often super-powerful armors are also horrendous, and you have to choose between dressing like a clown or stupidly choose looks over effectivity (a thing that Geralt or any warrior would never do, pulling you out of the game).
It's unnecessary and very sad. Having such a rich and big world, it could be full of balanced equipment with different properties and looks (more or less runestones spaces, different properties in exchange of small differences in power/defense...).
Instead of that, there are rubbish equipment or super-mega-overlevelled unique items, that once you find you are done for the next 3 hours. Jesus, guys, c'mon...
I kind of like the "Main Quests Level With You" idea.
Sure, it's exploitable...but only if you don't set a minimum level. So, take that minimum level and once the PC is there, adjust upwards for their current level.
I'd also like to see a creature or group of people added to all grey quests that are the PCs level, once the PC has "greyed out" that quest. Then you get say, 50 XP for snuffing them, ( or negotiating, whatever) as a pre or post cursor to the quest. Just make it a but more challenging and the base game already has an element of this.
Anyone who has wandered across that pack of level 22 Wolves mixed in with the level 5 Wolves knows what I'm talking about. "Surprise! Die!"
Sure, it's exploitable...but only if you don't set a minimum level. So, take that minimum level and once the PC is there, adjust upwards for their current level.
I'd also like to see a creature or group of people added to all grey quests that are the PCs level, once the PC has "greyed out" that quest. Then you get say, 50 XP for snuffing them, ( or negotiating, whatever) as a pre or post cursor to the quest. Just make it a but more challenging and the base game already has an element of this.
Anyone who has wandered across that pack of level 22 Wolves mixed in with the level 5 Wolves knows what I'm talking about. "Surprise! Die!"
Let me tell you a funny history. Playing game on hard. Finally going to face a higher vampire. Read the bestiary. "Not even Witchers might survive a battle against a Higher Vampire" It says. Turns out, kill the fucker without getting hit a single time. Save the game. Quit to desktop. Get all philosofical and start seriously thinking wtf is wrong with life.
Seriously thinking about getting drunk and forget the whole thing. Lmao.
Seriously thinking about getting drunk and forget the whole thing. Lmao.
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I think until this gets fixed the best thing to do for too much experience gain is to get a mod like
http://www.nexusmods.com/witcher3/mods/186/?
or
http://www.nexusmods.com/witcher3/mods/178/?
or
http://www.nexusmods.com/witcher3/mods/40/?
A really good idea for modder's would be to analyze each quest/ hidden location in the game and tailor the exp curve according to when you can complete these quest. Instead of a 20% more experience one could tailor make an exp curve that will require some, most or all quest/hidden spots to be completed in order to be a high enough level to continue through the main quest.
This would require looking at the experience rewards of each quest and hidden place according to where you are able to access it in the game, adding up the total ecpereince gain, and adjusting the experience curve so accordingly.
I recon that would be the best fix until they release RedKit for Witcher 3 or add an auto-level scaling option into the game.
http://www.nexusmods.com/witcher3/mods/186/?
or
http://www.nexusmods.com/witcher3/mods/178/?
or
http://www.nexusmods.com/witcher3/mods/40/?
A really good idea for modder's would be to analyze each quest/ hidden location in the game and tailor the exp curve according to when you can complete these quest. Instead of a 20% more experience one could tailor make an exp curve that will require some, most or all quest/hidden spots to be completed in order to be a high enough level to continue through the main quest.
This would require looking at the experience rewards of each quest and hidden place according to where you are able to access it in the game, adding up the total ecpereince gain, and adjusting the experience curve so accordingly.
I recon that would be the best fix until they release RedKit for Witcher 3 or add an auto-level scaling option into the game.