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Harsh but true. I got a feeling that game became so popular because of 2 things - emotional story and (fake) feeling of skillful battle. You are constantly dodging, slashing, evading and from side it looks like Geralt is flowing between enemies like it looks in many action films. But like in actions films, enemies don't attack main hero simultaneously, they are moving in different random directions waiting for something. Imagine that instead of direct attacking, enemies will be wandering around in other games - their difficulty will turn to cakewalk.
Yep, they didn't become any clever on DM. Started new game (from lvl 1) yesterday, killed griffin from 1st try without losing hp... just crossbow+griffin.school.technics. I checked that Death March is "on" several times, because everything was so easy.. I'm sure there be a lot of tough fights further, but ordinary monsters are still just a meat.
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On many forums person will be already banned for word "idiot" in a direction of forum owner))
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And that hesitation turns TW3 Death March into a Cake Run. If those bandits and ghouls will approach in some pattern, try to surround Geralt and then simultaneously attack from different sides it will be cool and challenging. Instead they are slowly moving around, wave their weapons, and give you easy time to select most vulnerable and kill it. In Skyrim bandits use their stamina to charge and run, even bears are charging your horse when you try to evade them. In TW3 they are roaring and slowly crawling, creeping, groveling, I don't know how to call their behavior.
I am not comparing Skyrim's stealth to mechanics of games based on stealth. But bandits, draugrs, falmers - at least half of them are moving, yes those patterns are simple and repetitive but they still exists and add to gameplay variety. I.e. if there are 3 bandits in the room, one walking, one sitting, one sleeping - you may wait and crouch and kill them one-by-one with a simple dagger or a bow without losing hp. But if you just rush into the room with same bow or dagger you will be killed or crippled after that attempt (until lvl 40+ when you are becoming invincible). So it is simple but it is working. And there is no any stealth in TW3 in comparison.
What the combat system of TW3 lacks until now are the following things
1) Much better A.I. The Exansions show, that CDPR is able to create enemies with much better A.I. Would they add that better A.I. just to the rest of the game, would be TW3 in overall already a much better and more intensive combat experience.
2) Enemies need better Skills and Moves, so that they have a wider variety to fight agaisnt you, instead of doing basicalyl always the same things to you, which makes fightign such enemies 100% predictable. Example Drowners..they always attack in the exact same pattern, by doing a Charge Attack, that is very simple to evade and then you can do some quick hits, before they evade backbards, rinse and repeat.
SO more different skilsl and combat patterns enemies have, so more fun is it to fight agaisnt them and so harder to fight will they be on higher difficulty settings, which makes then sure, that so higher the difficulty setting is, so more different skills and moves will the enemies be able to use against you, the most simplest natural way to make a dificulty system step by step more difficult by making the enemies also step by step better, instead of always raising only stupidly lazy the parameters by giving them more health and lettign them deal only more damage...thats the way how simpletons would balance a game, by just always raising only the paramaters
A Drwoner for example would I change this way beteween the Difficulty Settings:
Easy:
Lowest Health
Charge Attack
Claw Attack
Swarming Pattern in Group, trying to attack you from all sides together
Normal:
Medium Health
Charge Attack
Claw Attack
Jump Attack
Swarming Pattern in Group
Call for Help
Hard:
High Health
Increased Strength and Defense
Charge Attack
Claw Attack + Bleeding Effect
Jump Attack
Poisonous Bite Attack
Swarming Pattern
Grabbing Pattern (they try to grab and hold you so that you can't move or dodge or use Signs, so that you are forced to defenc off first the grabbing Drowner(s) before you can move normally again and use signs or swing your sword)
Death March:
Highest Health
Increased Strength and Defense
Increased Movement and Attack Speed
Powerful Charge Attack that can launch you away if being hit undefended, or knock you down to the ground lettign you lose your Sword when hit from behind, so that you need to grab it first from the ground again to be able to use it again.
Claw Attack + Stronger Bleeding.
Jump Tatack with increased Range
Poisonous Bite Attack, causes also your Toxity Bar to increase.
Swarming Pattern
Grabbing Pattern
Defensive Pattern which lets Drowners A.I act better in defensive, lettign them better avoid being hit by letting them use dodges more oftenly, or they throw with dirt after you like Hags to blind you and reduce your sight in combat.
Rage Mode so more Drowners you kill in front of them so more enraged do they become and deal over time increased damage.
If something like this would be done with all Creatures, then takign an overlook with all of then also with Strengths and Weaknesses, rebalancing the Conditions and addign also a few interestign Conditions to the game, I think the whole combat would be alot more fun then and more challenging on the higher difficulties, if all the enemies, especially Humans woudl receive more Combat Movement Patterns and Skills to get a wider varity in how they will fight against you based on the chosen difficulty setting.
If then get the witcher skills and the whoel character development lastly rebalanced, that would be the tip of the iceberg to make the whole combat system of TW3 alot better... but thats basically somethign ,what will most likely never happen anymore with any patch in the future - sadly
1) Much better A.I. The Exansions show, that CDPR is able to create enemies with much better A.I. Would they add that better A.I. just to the rest of the game, would be TW3 in overall already a much better and more intensive combat experience.
2) Enemies need better Skills and Moves, so that they have a wider variety to fight agaisnt you, instead of doing basicalyl always the same things to you, which makes fightign such enemies 100% predictable. Example Drowners..they always attack in the exact same pattern, by doing a Charge Attack, that is very simple to evade and then you can do some quick hits, before they evade backbards, rinse and repeat.
SO more different skilsl and combat patterns enemies have, so more fun is it to fight agaisnt them and so harder to fight will they be on higher difficulty settings, which makes then sure, that so higher the difficulty setting is, so more different skills and moves will the enemies be able to use against you, the most simplest natural way to make a dificulty system step by step more difficult by making the enemies also step by step better, instead of always raising only stupidly lazy the parameters by giving them more health and lettign them deal only more damage...thats the way how simpletons would balance a game, by just always raising only the paramaters
A Drwoner for example would I change this way beteween the Difficulty Settings:
Easy:
Lowest Health
Charge Attack
Claw Attack
Swarming Pattern in Group, trying to attack you from all sides together
Normal:
Medium Health
Charge Attack
Claw Attack
Jump Attack
Swarming Pattern in Group
Call for Help
Hard:
High Health
Increased Strength and Defense
Charge Attack
Claw Attack + Bleeding Effect
Jump Attack
Poisonous Bite Attack
Swarming Pattern
Grabbing Pattern (they try to grab and hold you so that you can't move or dodge or use Signs, so that you are forced to defenc off first the grabbing Drowner(s) before you can move normally again and use signs or swing your sword)
Death March:
Highest Health
Increased Strength and Defense
Increased Movement and Attack Speed
Powerful Charge Attack that can launch you away if being hit undefended, or knock you down to the ground lettign you lose your Sword when hit from behind, so that you need to grab it first from the ground again to be able to use it again.
Claw Attack + Stronger Bleeding.
Jump Tatack with increased Range
Poisonous Bite Attack, causes also your Toxity Bar to increase.
Swarming Pattern
Grabbing Pattern
Defensive Pattern which lets Drowners A.I act better in defensive, lettign them better avoid being hit by letting them use dodges more oftenly, or they throw with dirt after you like Hags to blind you and reduce your sight in combat.
Rage Mode so more Drowners you kill in front of them so more enraged do they become and deal over time increased damage.
If something like this would be done with all Creatures, then takign an overlook with all of then also with Strengths and Weaknesses, rebalancing the Conditions and addign also a few interestign Conditions to the game, I think the whole combat would be alot more fun then and more challenging on the higher difficulties, if all the enemies, especially Humans woudl receive more Combat Movement Patterns and Skills to get a wider varity in how they will fight against you based on the chosen difficulty setting.
If then get the witcher skills and the whoel character development lastly rebalanced, that would be the tip of the iceberg to make the whole combat system of TW3 alot better... but thats basically somethign ,what will most likely never happen anymore with any patch in the future - sadly
This game was definitely a learning experience for CDPR...so AI and their patterns have a wide margin in quality. Humans, I agree, in particular are far too passive, however there are great examples of group combat done right...al ghouls, spiders, boars, etc. Even at their weakest, I still consider it above Skyrim's mindless aggressive charging at player...where there are no tactics or observation to be had.
DS II made a mistake of doing the same and trying to make combat more "difficult"...result was only more simplified and "cheap" combat, with enemies constantly swinging at you.
This is a good example and why I put it above any action combat in western rpg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kADLf2H6EBw ( compare this to any enemy attack/movement in any Bioware/Bethesda game).
Yes, but what is the point of "variety" if you end up with five+ different playstyles, with each being incredibly simple and easily exploitable? Dual wielding is one attack animation( plus UI kills it), archery has but one slow mo ability, melee about five animations, with shield you bash or charge, etc.
I'm just going to leave this here...
http://forums.cdprojektred.com/thre...s-96-Animations-Just-For-Geralt-s-Combat-quot
http://forums.cdprojektred.com/thre...s-96-Animations-Just-For-Geralt-s-Combat-quot
Balance issues aside:
Geralt's combat stance feels awful and sluggish. The targeting also feels inconsistent. A little unfortunate that CDPR has no interest in "fixing" the combat but these are core gameplay mechanics were talking here. They generally never get adjusted once the game's released.
Geralt's combat stance feels awful and sluggish. The targeting also feels inconsistent. A little unfortunate that CDPR has no interest in "fixing" the combat but these are core gameplay mechanics were talking here. They generally never get adjusted once the game's released.
I think the combat is okay as a compliment to a larger game. By itself though I honestly think it's pretty terrible. 90% of what you do in combat is dodge... and then strike. Dodge again... then strike. Rinse & repeat for all 200 hours it takes to beat this game.
Once you've mastered dodge... and then strike you have mastered the combat system. There is a distinct lack of other tactical options.
Once you've mastered dodge... and then strike you have mastered the combat system. There is a distinct lack of other tactical options.
After playing on DM in Velen, I'll agree that there is some AI in TW3. Especially if group of bandits have 2-3 archers, they take defensive position and it is rather tricky to take them, because those archers always hit you if you'll stand in one place for a more time that it takes to shoot. Though alt. Yrden solves this, in early game it means that you don't have enough points to raise your sword damage, and so there a lot of monsters whose armor you can't pierce.
And so all this endless looting starts to have sense, because you need to buy\craft runes to upgrade your relic swords with armor piercing and to upgrade armor with Yrden intensity.. otherwise you simply can't do anything to enemies which are 6+ levels in comparison to your level. So in this stage game is interesting and balanced on DM. But I'm afraid it won't last long...
I never had the SLIGHTEST problem with the Witcher combat system, it is cinematic and awesome and superstylish, especially with KNGR`s slow motion combat mod where all the critical hits are shown in slow motion.
The only problem the combat system had, was this forced combat stance with auto-lock-on even on big distances - Geralt refused to run away and kept facing the enemy even when the enemy was already very far away.
Geralt was not directly controllable and steerable anymore but kept dancing and circling around a locked-on enemy all the time, one had to make a dozen jump-rolls when wanting to avoid a combat with a too strong enemy before the auto-lock and forced-facing in the enemy`s direction had finally been disabled when Geralt was about 1000 meters away of the enemy. And controllable and steerable again instead of constant circling around his target and moving slower than a mining truck while in combat stance.
But this auto-lock forced combat stance problem and moving like a slow tank even when locked-on enemy was already 10 miles away, has been patched already, and there are sliders for the camera and combat stance / auto-lock option sliders in every second camera or Witcher overhaul mod, so no problem anymore
You can now control Geralt as usual in combat situations, he can run and he can jump whith his swords drawn and in combat-stance, and the auto-lock kicks in only in the vicinity of a single enemy Geralt really wants to attack - and he can turn around anytime and run away from the sword fight when health is low, and is not forced to make several dozens of jump-rolls anymore to drink swallow potion.
Otherwise of this super-slow mining truck like behaviour while in combat stance (which has already been patched and is overhauled in every second mod) the combat in Witcher 3 is superb, cineastic sword moves, awesome finishers, the best motion capturing ever made in any game can be enjoyed in Witcher 3.
Especially the cat school whirl is the best ever seen in any sword combat situations.
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I share your opinion, Triss.Hasengold, I'm enthusiastic as well. CDP-R tried to square the circle - with success. On their way to mainstream - inevitable; if you make an investment in a high double-digit million range failure is not allowed - they wanted to get all the players on board who considered TW1/2 as too challenging - without (and that is the art) annoying the hardcore-players no more than unavoidable. Chapeau, CDP-R!
Sure - the combat system may be exploited; then Geralt will be OP soon. On the other hand he is agile, artistic as in no other Witcher-game, and the parry-riposte-dodge-roll mechanisms allow fluent melee - if you want.
Anyway - boss fights like the last one against Dettlaff will linger in my memory.
Ugh, watching it instead of playing it apparently increases the strength of that "why wasn't there a trigger warning" moment, in my case. That was bad just now. Really bad. [EDIT: I was referring to my emotional reaction to that "fang bite" = "oral rape" cutscene, not to the performance of the player during the fight!]
.......
Roll around in triangle, just stab each blob 1 time. At most 2 times. Safer method: "1 stab, 1 quen, roll." Then go on and roll to the next one. That way, avoiding the moving foe is much easier.
Lovely evasion of the bats though.
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Interesting, Lytha. I would like to learn from you. If you are playing the game on hard (or harder) and without cheats, mods etc.: Pls, make a video. I would enjoy it very much, I'm sure. Especially if the fight is shorter than this one.
Staying tuned
Max.
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Max, I meant something different. The cutscene in which Dettlaff jumps at Geralt, pins him to the ground and basically does an oral rape has some trauma trigger qualities. I cringe when I play it, but watching it was worse. Far worse. Which is... interesting. And Ugh.
The fight was really well done
(except getting hit a bit too often in the blob phase )I hope that clears this up. I meant no offense, I wrote that previous posting while still majorly distressed, and should have waited a bit, @MaxStrauss.
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I see now what you meant, Lytha.
... except getting hit a bit too often in the blob phase
Really true, and if nobody is watching me the fight takes slightly longer. But with 4 minutes this is the longest video of a single fight I ever made. I thought: Hey, Geralt has so much health in his baggage, and it's his last fight. Let him do! Especially if you see, that he has a perverse delight to whirl down Dettlaff's bloodballs (I admit: I shared Geralt's delight.)
Nevermind.
I think people who have a certain view of how combat SHOULD be in accordance with their view and their view only don't like the combat.
Other open minded people who take the time to appreciate what is being tried to do like the combat.
Other open minded people who take the time to appreciate what is being tried to do like the combat.
Good video on showing why the combat sucked. Even the Arkham games which had braindead combat felt very fluid and had precise targeting. The TW3 combat is a clunky horrible mess.
https://youtu.be/kkFqn1TMeH4
https://youtu.be/kkFqn1TMeH4
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Making posts like that instantly makes clear the pointlessness of you contributing to this discussion.
May be, maybe not, LordSnow. After your three-line post it's hard to decide if we are dealing with substantial criticism or not.
So pls, make a video of your best bossfight in your favourite RPG (high DL, melee, no cheats, mods etc.) so that we can compare. I'm curious, really.
How is it pointless? I just showed a video blatantly showing how terrible the combat is. All of my points are identical to the video.
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