Why are streamers venerated?

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Why are streamers venerated?

This is something that bugs me about the modern video game industry in general.

Almost every game has a cult like following of "streamers" and no matter how much i try i cant stand them.

Firstly just because they are "famous" does not make them the best of the best, i'm sure there are lots of good players who don't stream.

Their videos usually involve a heavy amount of annoying, cliche youtube presentation skills and their personalities really do not draw me in.

If you want to get better at the game arent you supposed to experiment yourself? learn through experience?

If these indivduals are genuinely leagues above everyone, how is that? what is is the ingrediant that makes them superior?

What is the magnetism these indiviudals have to the layman? I just dont understand.
:comeatmebro:
 
people are suckers for celebrity, and marketing dept's love free exposure :shrug:

personally I'm right there with ya... very few streamers of anything, let alone games can keep my attention for more than a few seconds.... the information speed is just too slow for me, and the entertainment value isn't usually high enough.
 
If you don't like it don't watch it. There's no reason to
come here and spread negativity and generalize because you don't like the personality of one or two popular streamers.

To answer your question I guess watching streams is just entertaining to some people, just like watching football or boxing is, simple as that.
 
Many streamers might not the top players but nevertheless better than the average player because they play 6 hours a day and hence have more experience in the game. In that sense, watching streams does help you improve as you are learning from more experienced people. I do agree that some streamers presentation style/personality does not suit some ppl but that does not mean that people don't watch streams and won't enjoy them.
 
Voyagers;n10522422 said:
Many streamers might not the top players but nevertheless better than the average player because they play 6 hours a day and hence have more experience in the game. In that sense, watching streams does help you improve as you are learning from more experienced people. I do agree that some streamers presentation style/personality does not suit some ppl but that does not mean that people don't watch streams and won't enjoy them.

Don't you think learning tips and tricks from other people takes away from your own personal experience of trial and error?

Say you religiously watch this streamer and take his advice, you get good and finish in the top tiers for ranked.

Wouldent you consider that a hollow victory? that the very reason you made it was because of someone elses input, dosent that make it a joint victory rather then your own personal triumph?

It's like being carried in Trials of Osiris, ok you may have gone flawless but it was simply down to the fact that these streamers carried you, nothing to do with your own skill.
 
TheNotoriousThree;n10522352 said:
If you don't like it don't watch it. There's no reason to
come here and spread negativity and generalize because you don't like the personality of one or two popular streamers.

To answer your question I guess watching streams is just entertaining to some people, just like watching football or boxing is, simple as that.

Hey, hey no negativity here, just my personal opinion.

The whole point of this thread is for understanding, i want to understand why people support these "proffessional gamers"

I don't think you can compare streamers to sports people, thats a whole other level, athletes train their whole life to be the best, its back breaking work, clicking a mouse is not.
 
Personally I can say I've learned things from watching streams that I'd have been extremely unlikely to discover on my own. Streamers often try combos and other things I'd never think of myself. :D
Granted, some streamers' personality and/or style does not appeal to me, but that simply means I'll watch someone else instead.

Streamers have a community around them, which is something that appeals to many people and so they decide to join in. That's definitely one factor in the equation, in addition to those already pointed out in this thread.
 
I can't say i know much about the subject but from my limited browsing i noticed some streamers actually make a point of mentioning they don't consider themselves great players and only make videos to be fun and entertaining. More often than not they are walking on eggshells whenever they talk about the game, mentioning several times it's just their opinion.
Yet with all this their rabid fans will still rationalize the streamer they watch is the best player out there and his/her opinions are like the bible. I think twitch in general appeals to a specific not-very-diverse demographic and just like with any fan, they get personally insulted when you say something negative about their streamer.

I don't see this as a game industry thing tbh, it's the same for any celebrity, athlete/team or even product. There are some apple fans out there that will wish death upon you if you think Samsung is better.
 
It took a while to find my favorite streamers, but after checking several of them, I found three that I enjoy watching and listening.

Sometimes I just don't have time to play myself, or I don't feel like playing myself because I'm too tired or something. It's easy to follow a stream while also doing other things on the internet. If my favorite streamers are offline, I usually try to find someone with only few viewers. Most famous streamers are not my cup of tea, but others seem to enjoy their channels and that's totally fine. We don't all have to like same things and there's plenty of streamers with different kinds of personalities. If you want to watch a Gwent stream, you should be able to find the ones that you enjoy watching. Someone wants to see specific decks in action, someone likes the personality of a streamer, someone likes their community and wants to be part of that, someone is looking for new tricks and tips for the game... There are plenty of reasons for watching these.
 
I like watching streamers. Not because they are the best players. A lot of them are not. But some do have an entertaining personality, interesting ideas, and yeah some are very skilled too. Obviously it can take a while to find a streamer you like and watching streams isn't the right thing for everyone.

Watching streams can also be helpful to better understand different archetypes (and beat them).
 
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SHALLAHJUSTICE;n10522582 said:
[...]I don't think you can compare streamers to sports people, thats a whole other level, athletes train their whole life to be the best, its back breaking work, clicking a mouse is not.

Yeah, you are totally right abou that but what I actually meant with
TheNotoriousThree;n10522352 said:
[...]I guess watching streams is just entertaining to some people, just like watching football or boxing is, simple as that.
was is that watching either of it is just entertaining. I am not very eloquent so I word things however I can, that's maybe why it came off the wrong way. Some people like watching sports, other people like watching people play games they like and listen to the streamer, interact with other viewers or the streamer himself etc. And ofcourse also to learn the game. It doesn't really matter that behind sports there is alot of blood, sweat and tears it's about you enjoying that medium.

I agree with you that learning and experiencing the game on your own is more fun but apparently not everyone sees it that way. Some people probably just want to learn it fast because they have no time or patience. That's how I view it anyways.
 
This is the internet, 90% people here watch others to witness them fail and have some legit (and sometimes not very legit) ways to point their finger at someone kinda famous and "publicly" laugh at them and their fails. That's why (overly) emotional, screaming and often failing people are popular - more opportunities to make fun of them.
 
I generally don't watch any of them, and I've tried most of the 'popular' ones. What gets to me the most is their general attitude to their oppo's - some of them are downright obnoxious and treat their oppo's like idiots if they don't appear to be as "skilled" as the streamer themselves. I feel that what the might not understand is that for most of us we don't have the time/resources to dedicate 6-8 hours a day playing a game; some of us have to work for a living... but if you do anything for 6-8 hours a day, then eventually you'll become better at it than most people who only play for fun/a couple of hours a day or such, and there's no reason to badmouth/treat your oppo like dirt just because they misplayed one card, or missed out on one extra point or didn't see some ridiculous combo coming etc etc etc.

and: #notallstreamerstreattheiropposliketrash. Yeah, I know it's not all of them that are like this, but there are certainly some.

I'm of the opinion that why do I want to watch someone playing a game when I could be playing the game myself.... but whatever right - if these people can do what they want and make a living at it then fine, go for it, but I won't be watching the majority of them.
 
Sure streamers are not the best players, but i can understand some ppl just enjoy watching them play. Not me. Its a game, and the fun in the game is... playing it. But, anyway, i dont mind ppl watching streamers. Just they time.
What annoys me too is the cult on streamers Ô.o . Then, i check whats happening outside and this is is just a mirror of the society, the cult to the famous be it football players, singers, actors... no matter who, if a person is famous they must me worshiped, and their opinions seems to be better than "normal" ppl.
 
As someone who enjoys watching several Gwent streamers, I'd like to share my point of view. I'll be replying to the OP exclusively, in hope of explaining another point of view.


SHALLAHJUSTICE;n10521972 said:
This is something that bugs me about the modern video game industry in general.

Almost every game has a cult like following of "streamers" and no matter how much i try i cant stand them.
Not liking something is perfectly fine. It's not like you have to watch streamers to enjoy a game.

On the other hand, I don't quite understand why would the popularity of streamers bug you? Does the popularity of streamers somehow detract from your enjoyment of the game?


Firstly just because they are "famous" does not make them the best of the best, i'm sure there are lots of good players who don't stream.

If these indivduals are genuinely leagues above everyone, how is that? what is is the ingrediant that makes them superior?
I don't think there is anyone who would dispute the claim that there are many good players who do not stream. As far as I know, most of the best ranked players (in pro, and in ranked) are not streamers. What you're doing here is attacking a strawman, i.e., you're arguing against an extreme position that is an unfair representation of the position of people who watch streamers.

Their videos usually involve a heavy amount of annoying, cliche youtube presentation skills and their personalities really do not draw me in.
This is a matter of personal preference. What's annoying to one person does not have to be annoying to another. I don't think that anyone watches streamers they find annoying.

If you want to get better at the game arent you supposed to experiment yourself? learn through experience?

Don't you think learning tips and tricks from other people takes away from your own personal experience of trial and error?

Not necessarily. Consider, for example, how chess players improve their game. A good chess player will analyze games played by many different players, as well as read/listen to analyses done by others. This is done in order to learn from the styles of play of other players and to be able adapt to different stiles of play. It would be ludicrous to suggest that analyzing chess games that are not your own somehow detracts from your success as a chess player, because you are not "experimenting yourself" and "learning through experience".

Now, my claim is that this does not apply only to chess, but to any competitive game. (Actually this applies to any human endeavor.) We do not learn only from personal experience. We also learn by looking at what others do - what kind of mistakes they make, what kind of assumptions they have, how do they react to common situations, do they do something we have not thing of ourselves, etc.

In summary, no, if the only thing you do while trying to get better at a game is experimenting yourself, you will always be trailing behind people who are experimenting themselves, while also learning from others.

Say you religiously watch this streamer and take his advice, you get good and finish in the top tiers for ranked.

Wouldent you consider that a hollow victory? that the very reason you made it was because of someone elses input, dosent that make it a joint victory rather then your own personal triumph?
Whether one watches a streamer religiously or not is not at all relevant here. What matters is that the person invested time and effort to learn how to play Gwent well. Part of that skill comes from personal experience, and part of it (perhaps a dominant part) comes from taking advice from others. With the skills thus acquired, the player then proceeds to finish in the top tiers of the ranked season.

Now you claim that this is a hollow achievement? Why would it be so? Because the player took time to listen to advice? Because the player took time to learn from others? The ability to learn from others, and the ability to take advice are usually considered to be admirable qualities of a person, but you're somehow trying to present is as something shameful and hollow.

What is the magnetism these indiviudals have to the layman? I just dont understand.
Do you understand why people go to stadiums to watch football games? Even if you're not one of those people, I would be surprised if you don't have at least a basic understanding of the social phenomenon of people watching football. Gwent, football, or any other game, it doesn't really matter - a lot of people like watching people playing a game they find interesting.

I don't think you can compare streamers to sports people
Note that in the paragraph above I'm not comparing streamers to athletes, but comparing the psychology of enjoyment of watching one kind of a game (sports) to the psychology of enjoyment of watching another kind of a game (video games).

athletes train their whole life to be the best, its back breaking work, clicking a mouse is not.
This is taking us a bit off-topic, but just a quick response to this comment.

I'd say that reducing playing strategic video games (e.g., Gwent, Starcraft) down to "clicking a mouse" is very much unfair. It would be as if you dismissed professional chess players by saying they are just moving pieces around the board. Sure, Gwent is nowhere near the complexity of chess (or even Starcraft), but my point still stands in principle - pro players (be it in football, chess, Starcraft, darts, snooker, Gwent, or whatever other game) have invested a lot of time and effort in honing their skills, and it is unfair to dismiss that effort by saying they are merely clicking a mouse, moving pieces around the board, chasing a ball around a lawn, or whatever other simplification one chooses to employ.

The whole point of this thread is for understanding, i want to understand why people support these "proffessional gamers"
I hope that what I written in this post helps you understand the opposing point of view.





 
Many streamers have great ideas out of necessity...since they will get flamed and slammed for being bland or generic and I've learned a lot from them because of that simple fact.
 
Have a REDpoint for your honesty.
To combat your points - I often pose the same questions, yet the answers are fairly self-evident.
  • The cliché personalities are definitely a big annoyance, though I haven't cringed much when watching Gwent content creators. All of them seem to be quite genuine and mature.
  • Playing a game and finding all about it yourself is definitely the most enjoyable, but there are many people who don't have fun when they lose - that's why netdecking is a thing.
  • Content creators usually spend dozens of hours on the game in question, which speeds up their experience gain. The one who spends more time on the game will think faster and consider more factors when playing, which sometimes gives them an edge.
  • In the end, people follow content creators (religiously or casually) either because they want to learn from them, or because they like the person in question personality-wise.
 
PsiLAN;n10524352 said:
if a person is famous they must me worshiped, and their opinions seems to be better than "normal" ppl.
I think it has more to do with your word reaching more people if you're famous. You're unlikely to change anyone's opinion, but people will either rally with or against you based on whether they agree or not. And a person's opinion with more renown will reach more people than an average joe's opinions ever will.
 
No Title

A lot of streamers don't claim to be great at the game. You'll notice that many of them rarely enter gwent tournies and such because they're not claiming to be pro players.

For some of us watching other people play is merely a relax thing; having some noise in the background while you do other things, same as watching a tv show or sports game. Some of us find we learn quite a bit from watching them and their opponents play, thanks to learning how cards interact with each other in ways you hadn't previously considered. Some of us like the interaction in twitch chat and youtube comments, where there's a sense of community as you get to know and befriend others sharing a similar interest in the game you're watching. In fact, there's plenty of other reasons to watch a streamer or youtuber that has nothing to do with "fame".

Well done on not liking a thing that other people like. You're very special.
 

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Pretty much this:

PsiLAN;n10524352 said:
Then, i check whats happening outside and this is is just a mirror of the society, the cult to the famous be it football players, singers, actors... no matter who, if a person is famous they must me worshiped, and their opinions seems to be better than "normal" ppl.

Add the fact that people are able to interact/chat with the streamer and thus be part of a "celebrity's" social circle, which, i guess, makes them feel special and important themselves, that's a sure recipe for veneration.
*Attention: This is not a criticism of people who like streams. I'm focusing on the "venerated" part.

When the twitch-drops thing was activated, i started checking different streamers ( which is way out of my interests ) and i found the experience, for the most part, boring or really irritating. Now i find a, preferably small, stream and just keep the tab open ( almost always muted ) while doing something else.
I believe that learning the game yourself is important and fun and i've been doing that since day one of the OB ( no netdecking or some other kind of help, besides some crafting related advice ). Now i'm at a point where i don't mind getting a little spoiled. Recently, i found a streamer that i enjoy to watch. Not just keep the tab open, but sit down and actually watch the stream. I really like his calm demeanor and the way he reasons and explains his every move.


 
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