Why are there STILL Create and RNG cards in Homecoming?

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Oh yeah and if you're so good how come you're not in top 1k? After all "gwent is no (sic) skill based" and "every turn the same game". The only reason you think it's the same is because we haven't gotten an UPDATE IN 6 MONTHS! Of course it's going to feel repetitive but that doesn't mean it doesn't take skill! People have gotten to GM with Spies! People have gotten to GM with Henselt! People have gotten to GM with Foltest! Not everyone plays Greatswords.

Also please explain how it's better for RNG swings to win the game, how it is "more skillful" if I highroll an answer to your strategy? Randomness is the exact opposite of skill! Look at Hearthstone (where you undoubtedly came from). How is it better for RNG cards like Yogg-Saron to dominate games for months? Now instead of being outplayed you're losing because an opponent just pulled out an answer that you can't do anything about!

unfortunatly my english knowledges are poor for explain it at fool strenght.

1. for taking rank you need time, for time wich i spending on game not enought, and i didnt said anywhere how good i am, you just poorly harrassed me because im rank 16, like it matter anything

2. the reason why every game is similar is the current mechanic of the cards, most decks are used for pull the other card from the deck and decrease deck to deacrese any randomness (game wo random is a simple math, and wins not skill but who have more power deck) , its a routine of pulling cards from decks, nothing else.

3. RNG like i said before make you adapt to situation , you cant preview how game go after RNG will it work for you or against, also can you explain me what is "skill" for you? card games just need a bit logic and some primary math, thats all, it isnt cs or lol
 
Considering we can only play casual...

Yeah, we should wait. Unreasonable, i know.

If and when ranked/pro ladder returns, then if certain rng cards are problematic i will be the first to ask for CDPR to ban them from competitive modes.

Casual may stay as it is.
 
Considering we can only play casual...

Yeah, we should wait. Unreasonable, i know.

If and when ranked/pro ladder returns, then if certain rng cards are problematic i will be the first to ask for CDPR to ban them from competitive modes.

Casual may stay as it is.
Why do you think only pro-player are annoyed of bad card design or OP-cards? Casuals are not worthy for good balance or what you implying?
 
Why do you think only pro-player are annoyed of bad card design or OP-cards? Casuals are not worthy for good balance or what you implying?
Casual is casual. Anything goes. And i admit i have my fun with rng as well. As long the game doesn't mean anything (well except for the dailies), it's game.

Competitive modes are another matter. That's where you want to make sure that skill is promoted and not rng. It can be fine, but only in small doses and swingy rng cards are not welcome there.

I don't know what your expectations are, but there iS a place for rng in this game. And that place is casual. This is coming from someone that heavily criticized create when it was revealed during midwinter (the posts should still be in this forum i think). So yeah, it's not like i defend every choice of CDPR.
 
[...]also can you explain me what is "skill" for you? card games just need a bit logic and some primary math, thats all, it isnt cs or lol

I think you are confusing mechanics with skill - or you don't distinguish between them.
Following your logic none of the Gwent Open/Challenger winners would've deserved his win.
Game knowledge, "a bit logic and some primary math" are part of the skill set you need to play the game.

Breaking it down, a game like pairs would test primarly your memory and concentration, that is skill as well; Although it doesn't request mechanics or test you physically at all - provided you are a healthy human being.
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[...]If and when ranked/pro ladder returns, then if certain rng cards are problematic i will be the first to ask for CDPR to ban them from competitive modes.[...]
Have fun doing so and best of luck.
They decided not to bench cards for specific modes for over a year now, one request more or less won't change that, I suspect. Even those cards which were presented as "being particularly designed for arena" were available in both/all modes.
 
unfortunatly my english knowledges are poor for explain it at fool strenght.

1. for taking rank you need time, for time wich i spending on game not enought, and i didnt said anywhere how good i am, you just poorly harrassed me because im rank 16, like it matter anything
Leveling up to rank 20 is easy enough and just a question of time. From rank 20 to rank 21 and the proladder in particular is a different game. You have blatantly never experienced high-level play. And it frankly shows in your endorsement of RNG as a way of mixing up stale, repetitive gameplay because at lower levels people play out set patterns in their decks and do not think out their moves as thoroughly.

2. the reason why every game is similar is the current mechanic of the cards, most decks are used for pull the other card from the deck and decrease deck to deacrese any randomness (game wo random is a simple math, and wins not skill but who have more power deck) , its a routine of pulling cards from decks, nothing else.
No, the reason why your games all feel similar is because the meta has stabilized overall and because a lot of people, especially at lower rankings, just netdeck the best decks they see, typically the same few decks, then more-or-less play them out by rote. That will continue to happen even with RNG, by the way. Once you get better at the game and hone your ability to anticipate and disrupt your opponent's plays and try to set yourself up for the best winning position down the line, you start to find a lot of interactivity and differences in how you keep playing the same deck that don't seem to exist at lower skill levels where people play decks by rote. And as for the stabilized deck meta, it doesn't mean the meta is impossible to escape. Hell, there's a guy who got to GM playing Kambi Shupe. If you want to bust the meta, it is still possible to make decks that do so.

3. RNG like i said before make you adapt to situation , you cant preview how game go after RNG will it work for you or against, also can you explain me what is "skill" for you? card games just need a bit logic and some primary math, thats all, it isnt cs or lol
People winning just because they were lucky is the opposite of skillful play. If I get a 12 point Gascon there's nothing remotely interesting about that strategy. The game doesn't become any more clever for someone randomly getting lucky like that, but players get a lot more annoyed if that sort of thing becomes the new standard. Incidentally, LoL is actually widely acknowledged to be one of the lowest skill-ceiling games of the AoS genre and CS has gone downhill since CS 1.6.

Thus far everything you've said strongly indicates that you have a superficial understanding of Gwent. Your ensuing conclusion that Gwent is a shallow game is thus not a reflection of the game but your own limited understanding.
 
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Have fun doing so and best of luck.
They decided not to bench cards for specific modes for over a year now, one request more or less won't change that, I suspect. Even those cards which were presented as "being particularly designed for arena" were available in both/all modes.
They said they wanted to make competitive gwent a place for skill and not luck. And i want to believe them.

While as usual there shouldn't be any kneejerk reaction, if a swingy rng card prove to be competitive enough (see Shupe) to even see play in tourneys that card should get banned imho.
 
Casual is casual. Anything goes
As long the game doesn't mean anything (well except for the dailies), it's game.
Well, no. Not for me at least. The game mean something for me, because even in casual i want to play a balanced game, otherwise its spoil the fun. This is why any sport have the same rules in different leagues. So a soccer player wont be allowed fouls a cheap trick only because he is playing at 4th or 6th league in his department (which is basicly a hobby). I i play Gwent i want to compete, not nessescarily ranked, because often i just dont like the meta decks there. If you want ban a card, you should always ban them for each gamemode (singleplayer is another thing). Otherwise i have the option to play against unfair decks in casual and the always teh same decks in ranked. Not quite a choice for me
 
in casual you can click alt-f4 and dont lose anything, in ranked when Tk steals my clearsky i lose my mind.
 
Well, no. Not for me at least. The game mean something for me, because even in casual i want to play a balanced game, otherwise its spoil the fun. This is why any sport have the same rules in different leagues. So a soccer player wont be allowed fouls a cheap trick only because he is playing at 4th or 6th league in his department (which is basicly a hobby). I i play Gwent i want to compete, not nessescarily ranked, because often i just dont like the meta decks there. If you want ban a card, you should always ban them for each gamemode (singleplayer is another thing). Otherwise i have the option to play against unfair decks in casual and the always teh same decks in ranked. Not quite a choice for me
Look, i'm very salty when i lose to rng (like roach jumping on the wrong row allowing my oppo to activate GIgni). But this game isn't and shouldn't be only for hyper competitive players. There is and there should be a place where casual players enjoy their rng plays, and even myself i sometimes want to just do a bs rng deck because i'm in the mood.

Casual is the right place for that. Ranked is the right place for people that only wants to play hyper competitively. There needs to be a place for both type of players, because you definitely don't want to alienate casuals.
 
Look, i'm very salty when i lose to rng (like roach jumping on the wrong row allowing my oppo to activate GIgni). But this game isn't and shouldn't be only for hyper competitive players. There is and there should be a place where casual players enjoy their rng plays, and even myself i sometimes want to just do a bs rng deck because i'm in the mood.

Casual is the right place for that. Ranked is the right place for people that only wants to play hyper competitively. There needs to be a place for both type of players, because you definitely don't want to alienate casuals.

ok we wont agree on that term, i see. So allow me one last question: Why i have to leave the game, if i dont like some aspects but you get an hole gamemode with different cards because you want to go casual sometimes? where is my gamemode with 3 copies or s.th. like that?
 
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I too am quite disappointed that create is still in the game as it was obvious that the community didnt want it.
Furthermore i do not understand why cards like gascon exist. Besides memeing there is no reason to play full rng cards like that as the win or lose you the game at the roll of a die. That is just lazy card design. I really hope that cdpr will change some of those things before launch.
 
ok we wont agrre on that term, i see. So allow me one last question: Why i hav ethe leave the game, if i dont like some aspects but you get an hole gamemode with different cards because you want to go casual sometimes? where is my gamemode with 3 copies or s.th. like that?
CDPR isn't making a mode tailor made for me. Gwent NEEDS to have a lot of casuals as well, for the overall population, for the popularity (the more a game is popular, especially on twitch, the more crowd it will attract) and for the dev's income.

Maybe this game is so generous it made people forget that CDPR still needs to profit from it, and the more players there are the more money they will make.

And let's be real, there are more casuals out there than hardcore "no rng" players. So i find it right that there places where casuals can enjoy rng plays, while the competitive aspect of the game doesn't suffer from those.
 
CDPR isn't making a mode tailor made for me. Gwent NEEDS to have a lot of casuals as well, for the overall population, for the popularity (the more a game is popular, especially on twitch, the more crowd it will attract) and for the dev's income.

Maybe this game is so generous it made people forget that CDPR still needs to profit from it, and the more players there are the more money they will make.

And let's be real, there are more casuals out there than hardcore "no rng" players. So i find it right that there places where casuals can enjoy rng plays, while the competitive aspect of the game doesn't suffer from those.

Casuals flock to games that are already populated.
Or with gigantic marketing upon release.

HS, and Artifact (if the price of artifact is not insane).

Here you could market towards an hardcore audience. Let that community grow because no one else offers that experience. And if thing go well you could rival the big names.


Look at Path of Exile. Targets the very hardcore audience. Thats their demographic. Patches are aimed for the top 0,001% of players.
They didnt try to steal players from Diablo 3. That wont happen. They didnt simplify their game to make room for a broader audience.

And quality patch after quality patch. They have a bigger playerbase than D3. And are the undisputed kings of Arpgs right now.
The game now also has a ton of casuals, and semi casuals, because its "kewl" to play PoE, and there are many streamers.


GWENT needs players. Its needs a target audience well defined. And it will grow from there.
 
Casuals flock to games that are already populated.
Or with gigantic marketing upon release.

HS, and Artifact (if the price of artifact is not insane).

Here you could market towards an hardcore audience. Let that community grow because no one else offers that experience. And if thing go well you could rival the big names.


Look at Path of Exile. Targets the very hardcore audience. Thats their demographic. Patches are aimed for the top 0,001% of players.
They didnt try to steal players from Diablo 3. That wont happen. They didnt simplify their game to make room for a broader audience.

And quality patch after quality patch. They have a bigger playerbase than D3. And are the undisputed kings of Arpgs right now.
The game now also has a ton of casuals, and semi casuals, because its "kewl" to play PoE, and there are many streamers.


GWENT needs players. Its needs a target audience well defined. And it will grow from there.
Artifact is everything but a casual game, due to the insane price between purchase cost and the fact that you have to purchase packs (and trade cards).
And yet it's still flooded with rng.

And only because HS exists, it doesn't mean you can't try to steal a portion of their players. It would be actually dumb to not do it. I know there is this myth saying that ALL the casual players play that, but it's not really true. Casuals DO leave hearthstone as well, and if they search a new game why not gwent?

As for competitive players, ranked and pro ladder are more suited for them anyway. Do you think for example Lifecoach (that said he would try homecoming, don't know if he will do it tho) would care if casual have rng as long pro ladder is made to promote skill?
 
Artifact is everything but a casual game, due to the insane price between purchase cost and the fact that you have to purchase packs (and trade cards).
And yet it's still flooded with rng.

If the the price really is high. And i think it will be. The game wont suceed IMO.
Theres MTG for that. And even the online MTG you can at least grind for something...
If its 50 dollars + a tier 1 deck, i dont see it beign a success. Even with big tournaments. Casuals would run away.

And only because HS exists, it doesn't mean you can't try to steal a portion of their players. It would be actually dumb to not do it. I know there is this myth saying that ALL the casual players play that, but it's not really true. Casuals DO leave hearthstone as well, and if they search a new game why not gwent?

Thats what most WoW killers tried. They all failed even with F2P games.
Even if some people leave HS and try to get into a new CCG, theres two huge problems for getting casuals:

-> Streamers are leaving, and going for artifact, and without a strong twitch audience you wont get casuals players. (Its sad, but true)
-> No mobile version still.

As for competitive players, ranked and pro ladder are more suited for them anyway. Do you think for example Lifecoach (that said he would try homecoming, don't know if he will do it tho) would care if casual have rng as long pro ladder is made to promote skill?

I belive he would be ok with that.
Thing is, casual is just unranked play, same rules apply.
Or else where im i going to test a deck? Not on ranked. It will tank my MMR.


Gwent first needs to find its niche audience, its target playerbase. And KEEP those players. The casuals will come after a while.

There are no CCG on the market that offers skill based gameplay, few RNG, and a fair F2P system. This is a viable market.

I would pay for that game. As i did for old GWENT.
Homecoming? I wont even buy thronebreaker anymore, unless things change.

Will it be able to get new players? Only time will tell.
But judging from past events in the videogame industry i dont see it happen.
 
If the the price really is high. And i think it will be. The game wont suceed IMO.
Theres MTG for that. And even the online MTG you can at least grind for something...
If its 50 dollars + a tier 1 deck, i dont see it beign a success. Even with big tournaments. Casuals would run away.



Thats what most WoW killers tried. They all failed even with F2P games.
Even if some people leave HS and try to get into a new CCG, theres two huge problems for getting casuals:

-> Streamers are leaving, and going for artifact, and without a strong twitch audience you wont get casuals players. (Its sad, but true)
-> No mobile version still.



I belive he would be ok with that.
Thing is, casual is just unranked play, same rules apply.
Or else where im i going to test a deck? Not on ranked. It will tank my MMR.


Gwent first needs to find its niche audience, its target playerbase. And KEEP those players. The casuals will come after a while.

There are no CCG on the market that offers skill based gameplay, few RNG, and a fair F2P system. This is a viable market.

I would pay for that game. As i did for old GWENT.
Homecoming? I wont even buy thronebreaker anymore, unless things change.

Will it be able to get new players? Only time will tell.
But judging from past events in the videogame industry i dont see it happen.
Well i often see "look at WoW" but it's not like that's the only possibility. Look at Dota 2 vs League of Legends. Games can rise if they have quality and are well received.
 
Gwent first needs to find its niche audience, its target playerbase. And KEEP those players. The casuals will come after a while.

There are no CCG on the market that offers skill based gameplay, few RNG, and a fair F2P system. This is a viable market.

I would pay for that game. As i did for old GWENT.
Homecoming? I wont even buy thronebreaker anymore, unless things change.

Will it be able to get new players? Only time will tell.
But judging from past events in the videogame industry i dont see it happen.
Gwent should try to grow his niche audience not chase casuals and destroying game mechanics and archetypes for that.
As veteran player i would have paid a monthly subscription for ranked if they balanced the game.
i dont like kegs, and EU legislation will probably consider them lootboxes.
 
Well i often see "look at WoW" but it's not like that's the only possibility. Look at Dota 2 vs League of Legends. Games can rise if they have quality and are well received.

WoW, Diablo, HS.
No one dethrones these games by imitating them.
I gave the example of PoE, it surpassed D3 by doing its own thing. While D3 didnt care about its playerbase. These is the most similar example to gwent/hs i cant think of.

Dota was a thing before LoL. A big thing (for a mod), Blizz never really cared for it.

Then LoL appeared, it streamlined Dota a bit, while still keeping a good degree of depth. Its F2P, but you dont have everything. You need to grind for it.
You dont have creep denial and you dont lose money when you die. And in terms of gameplay this is big.

Later you had Heroes of Newerth, it was ok. It reminded vetererans of Dota. But not quite.
Then Dota 2 apeared... With Valve behind.

Way, waaaay more complex than LoL, and it already had the old veterans guranteed to play it.
Plus its 100% free, all champions available. People jump from HoN to Dota2.

These games serve different publics. Thay play different, they feel diferent.

Then there is also Heroes of The Storm. It grabbed the most, absolute casual player base that didnt fit in neither those two.
Its doing Ok. But nowhere near the same level of popularity.

With Homecoming, old players thats dislike changes will leave. While Dota 2 improve on the formula/complexity, while doing what the fans wanted. Plus they have the best balance team of all Mobas.

Also theres alot more players for mobas, than card games :/ and thats a shame.
(At least we are more than RTS or so it seems!)
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Gwent should try to grow his niche audience not chase casuals and destroying game mechanics and archetypes for that.
As veteran player i would have paid a monthly subscription for ranked if they balanced the game.
i dont like kegs, and EU legislation will probably consider them lootboxes.

Dont know, card games have always been like that. And you can buy individual cars and trade. (IRL)
They just need to implemet that, and i think they would be safe.

And yes i would pay for that too :/
 
Considering we can only play casual...

Yeah, we should wait. Unreasonable, i know.

If and when ranked/pro ladder returns, then if certain rng cards are problematic i will be the first to ask for CDPR to ban them from competitive modes.

Casual may stay as it is.

Burza just confirmed that create cards will be in ranked. :(
 
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