Why are there STILL Create and RNG cards in Homecoming?

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Burza just confirmed that create cards will be in ranked. :(

That's no surprise.

There were zero chances that after one year of Create in ranked, they would remove it after the PTR. They could have had those cards restricted to Arena, with little to no effort. They could have had reworked during Homecoming, but they didn't. Simply because Create as a mechanic belongs to the simplified version of the game they are building. Gascon fits the new game.

And, they broke their word.

"We heard you discussing the “Create” mechanic. At first, we thought it would be an interesting addition to the game, but — as time passed — we realized that this form of wide RNG is not something that fits our focus on player skill. We will be extra careful with these types of mechanics in the redesign process. That said, if we manage to find some cards interesting enough to include, but ‘too crazy for Ranked’, they will still have their place in Arena and Casual Mode. "
 
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Joachim boost disloyal units, RNG fiesta.
 
Hey let's all ignore how the devs blatantly lied to us about the direction in which they were taking the game. Obviously rank 15 players like Orsest who just came from Hearthstone know better. :^)

Wouldn't be the first time they have used shitty practice. Let's take a brief look at Gwents timeline shall we?

>They caved in to our requests for a standalone Gwent game that we could play with out friends after endless begging and multiple crowd petitions.
>They found a way to monetize it beyond simply releasing a buy to play, casual transition from the Witcher 3 version.
>They then ADVERTISED IT with the slogan 'SKILL BEATS LUCK' and thus amassed a niche following because of the style of gameplay.
>During this period they deemed it a great idea to push the Esport side of things before the game was even released. To make even more money off of an unfinished game.
>Then they proceed to ignore the playbase and made many failures in a row each time searching for greener pastures and a bigger playerbase. Which in turn diminishes the playerbase they had until it was nothing.

>Then finally, when the last batch of people have left the game, they announce something called 'Homecoming'. Speculation starts, people get their hopes up to what the obvious name alludes.
>They fuck the playerbase over one last time by NOT admitting their mistakes and going back to fix them and instead make the same mistake they have made- trying to make gwent something it is not. Only this time it is a complete reboot and a decision you cannot come back from.
 
Aye, Gwent is moving from "skill beats luck" to "luck beats skill" with the new RNG mechanics alright. I'm also disappointed in the ridiculous card draw and hand size limits, which remove a significant skill aspect both in terms of devaluing tempo and in terms of significantly inhibiting the ability to control round length to your advantage. Skill is just being drastically undermined in Homecoming. I don't think this is an esports thing, as esports thrive on highly competitive, high-skill gameplay. I think this is just horrifying cluelessness in action. It also has the whiff of people who have balance goggles on and forget that the purpose of balance is to ensure people have freedom in how they have their fun in competitive and start thinking instead that balance is all about equalizing everything and start going down the slippery slope of trying to hammer down anything that looks too good or too abusable until the game is a bland, stale mess and balance has been achieved, except the fun is dead and gone.
 
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A good question indeed. I dont even mind Runestones so much. With 6 supply cost for create a bronze, its a high risk card for a chance to get a card you need, and considering provision cost for bronzes, those most likely wouldnt be worth 6 supply in themselves. Conditional ping for 1 is also fine by me, it helps to avoid order overload with engine cards.
But stuff like spotters, viper witchers, Gascon? A spotter landing on Old Speartip is outright game-ending.
Hopefully those RNG effects are placeholders.
Pretty sure that if people want game-winning RNG in CCG, they'll simply play HS.
 
It's not like I didn't expect it, but I am still disappointed that Create is a mechanic which still exists, and more importantly, it's going to be available in every mode as well.

Granted, now it seems to be more of a meme, with no game breaking or terribly consistent Create card in the game as of the moment at least.

But even so, that does not address the issue that pretty much everyone's made them aware about for the last 10 months.

And even though I do not think they straight up broke their word, because reading the quote from the open letter, nowhere was it ever specified that Create will be removed (Merely that create cards will be redesigned, in which most cases happened and even in those that it didn't, the redesign of the rest of the game significantly weakened them), that is still ignoring pretty much the sum of the playerbase feedback for months.

Give us something meaningful again CDPR. Please. I am not negative of the Homecoming gwent as of yet. It's got potential. All you have to do, in my mind, is limit the RNG (Arbalests, Spotters, Recruits, Create needs to be removed, etc) and revamp certain archetypes and mechanics to make sense with the cards. Reveal makes absolutely no sense, not in faction identity, nowhere. Revealing randomly from both decks in particular, when the whole focus of it is the hand. The whole gig of NG was disruption and information, with spies and reveal being the very primary mechanics it has. Why are these so senseless, random and completely un-supported anymore? That just promotes pointspam. Case in point, I made a deck with Usurper which simply aims to play bronzes that can get 7 points of value and upwards each, and I've got the greatest success than any other deck I've played in the PTR.

Then Machines, in NR, don't seem to be making too much of a sense either. There's so many cards that simply have an ability which does not fit them. And while many of those existed in Gwent since the closed beta, the amount wasn't that overwhelming. Example: In Midwinter, we got Vandergrift, which reading back to the events that happened in the cursed battlefield in Witcher 2, you can see how his ability makes sense! Where is that in, say, Arbalests? Battering Rams? and so many other cards I could mention.
 
You cant remove rng from card games, its why theyre so fun to play...Thats like saying you dont want the deck to get shuffled, you want to know what youre drawing and when.
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It's not like I didn't expect it, but I am still disappointed that Create is a mechanic which still exists, and more importantly, it's going to be available in every mode as well.

Granted, now it seems to be more of a meme, with no game breaking or terribly consistent Create card in the game as of the moment at least.

But even so, that does not address the issue that pretty much everyone's made them aware about for the last 10 months.

And even though I do not think they straight up broke their word, because reading the quote from the open letter, nowhere was it ever specified that Create will be removed (Merely that create cards will be redesigned, in which most cases happened and even in those that it didn't, the redesign of the rest of the game significantly weakened them), that is still ignoring pretty much the sum of the playerbase feedback for months.

Give us something meaningful again CDPR. Please. I am not negative of the Homecoming gwent as of yet. It's got potential. All you have to do, in my mind, is limit the RNG (Arbalests, Spotters, Recruits, Create needs to be removed, etc) and revamp certain archetypes and mechanics to make sense with the cards. Reveal makes absolutely no sense, not in faction identity, nowhere. Revealing randomly from both decks in particular, when the whole focus of it is the hand. The whole gig of NG was disruption and information, with spies and reveal being the very primary mechanics it has. Why are these so senseless, random and completely un-supported anymore? That just promotes pointspam. Case in point, I made a deck with Usurper which simply aims to play bronzes that can get 7 points of value and upwards each, and I've got the greatest success than any other deck I've played in the PTR.

Then Machines, in NR, don't seem to be making too much of a sense either. There's so many cards that simply have an ability which does not fit them. And while many of those existed in Gwent since the closed beta, the amount wasn't that overwhelming. Example: In Midwinter, we got Vandergrift, which reading back to the events that happened in the cursed battlefield in Witcher 2, you can see how his ability makes sense! Where is that in, say, Arbalests? Battering Rams? and so many other cards I could mention.

If ya'll dont like the game, dont play it. Players dont own the game, CDPR does and they can balance it anyways they see fit. Most things were better in closed beta stage anyways, we had actually row locked units like in the mini game Gwent this stand alone game is made after.

I uninstalled it, you can too, there are plenty of other games out there.
 
You cant remove rng from card games, its why theyre so fun to play...Thats like saying you dont want the deck to get shuffled, you want to know what youre drawing and when.
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If ya'll dont like the game, dont play it. Players dont own the game, CDPR does and they can balance it anyways they see fit. Most things were better in closed beta stage anyways, we had actually row locked units like in the mini game Gwent this stand alone game is made after.

I uninstalled it, you can too, there are plenty of other games out there.

We can voice our opinion on a game we explicitly stated that we are still playing and willing to play (if you read my post, you surely can see I did just that). And sorry, that's not just how CCGs are. I am ok with randomness, to a fairly reasonable level.
 
And, they broke their word.
I dont see any broken word. To begin with, their statement was sooo vague with many little holes to escape to.

Btw. that's what i am missing the most: Clear statements , we only get infos bit by bit...
 
You cant remove rng from card games, its why theyre so fun to play...Thats like saying you dont want the deck to get shuffled, you want to know what youre drawing and when.

There is randomness in the card draw, which can be mitigated with mulligan and blacklisting, and additional randomness which can be inflated with the addition of RNG effects.

The funny thing is that even in Homecoming you don't have a perfect shuffling of the deck. In most CCGs you don't just shuffle your deck, but you take additional steps, like removing cards from your opening hand. If random draws were to be so fun, why in the first place go the extra mile and have mulligan and blacklisting? In fact, to a certain degree, you want to know what you're drawing and when.

So you can control RNG in card games, the same way you can control the amount of sugar in a cake.

If ya'll dont like the game, dont play it. Players dont own the game, CDPR does and they can balance it anyways they see fit.

As a customer you can still review their product. Also from their perspective, rather than walking away, it should be better to have some complaint, especially if tied to a specific aspect of the game. For example, I liked what I saw for Thronebreaker. CDPR and Paradox Interactive are my favourite videogame companies.

I dont see any broken word. To begin with, their statement was sooo vague with many little holes to escape to.

Btw. that's what i am missing the most: Clear statements , we only get infos bit by bit...

Maybe from the perspective of a lawyer. "[...] we realized that this form of wide RNG is not something that fits our focus on player skill" is a strong enough sentence. Having Create tamed or (better) removed that what I was hoping for.
 
There is randomness in the card draw, which can be mitigated with mulligan and blacklisting, and additional randomness which can be inflated with the addition of RNG effects.

The funny thing is that even in Homecoming you don't have a perfect shuffling of the deck. In most CCGs you don't just shuffle your deck, but you take additional steps, like removing cards from your opening hand. If random draws were to be so fun, why in the first place go the extra mile and have mulligan and blacklisting? In fact, to a certain degree, you want to know what you're drawing and when.

So you can control RNG in card games, the same way you can control the amount of sugar in a cake.
Well, i don't know which (Trading) Card Games you play, but most Card-Games (in this direction - so not talking about something like UNO) i played the only "real" "influence" you have is deckbuilding and the decision at the beginning of Mulligan (and even at the last case you have a downside like MTG where you can only pick 6 instead of 7 Cards and so on). The Rest of it is purely RNG and the "appeal" of Card Games was unlike other Games (like Chess and such) that you have to work with what you get. To Adapt to your Hand and show "skill" by playing with this circumstances... so in general Terms i have to agree with him.... (though i don't take any side of this argument if it comes down to Gwent...)

And by the way - schuffling in real TCG's often tend to ensure real "rng" so you can't cheat by order the Cards how you want them....
 
That's no surprise.

There were zero chances that after one year of Create in ranked, they would remove it after the PTR. They could have had those cards restricted to Arena, with little to no effort. They could have had reworked during Homecoming, but they didn't. Simply because Create as a mechanic belongs to the simplified version of the game they are building. Gascon fits the new game.

And, they broke their word.
And how exactly did they "breaked their word?". They've said that they would restrict an rng card if it was "too crazy" for ranked (which probably means meta defining). Since we don't even have a meta yet...
 
There is randomness in the card draw, which can be mitigated with mulligan and blacklisting, and additional randomness which can be inflated with the addition of RNG effects.

The funny thing is that even in Homecoming you don't have a perfect shuffling of the deck. In most CCGs you don't just shuffle your deck, but you take additional steps, like removing cards from your opening hand. If random draws were to be so fun, why in the first place go the extra mile and have mulligan and blacklisting? In fact, to a certain degree, you want to know what you're drawing and when.

So you can control RNG in card games, the same way you can control the amount of sugar in a cake.



As a customer you can still review their product. Also from their perspective, rather than walking away, it should be better to have some complaint, especially if tied to a specific aspect of the game. For example, I liked what I saw for Thronebreaker. CDPR and Paradox Interactive are my favourite videogame companies.



Maybe from the perspective of a lawyer. "[...] we realized that this form of wide RNG is not something that fits our focus on player skill" is a strong enough sentence. Having Create tamed or (better) removed that what I was hoping for.

But zero rng makes games boring...There is a reason arpgs have damage variables instead of flat damage. And crit damage exists for that reason too. I think the less rng this game gets the worse it gets too.
 
They said they wanted to make competitive gwent a place for skill and not luck. And i want to believe them.

While as usual there shouldn't be any kneejerk reaction, if a swingy rng card prove to be competitive enough (see Shupe) to even see play in tourneys that card should get banned imho.
Yet the only cards that were unchanged were runestones.. Honestly I thinks it's a miracle they have a playable game at this point. I really think they assigned abilities at random and threw it out the door. I just hope they take the time to redesign about 70% of the cards as they are lame boost /damage or new rng cards.
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Gwent should try to grow his niche audience not chase casuals and destroying game mechanics and archetypes for that.
As veteran player i would have paid a monthly subscription for ranked if they balanced the game.
i dont like kegs, and EU legislation will probably consider them lootboxes.
I was just going to ask that. How many of you would be willing to pay a small monthly fee for a balanced version of old gwent? I've spent enough already but would pay $5 a month to keep playing. The way things are going I just don't think I can enjoy this new gwent. I've played about 20 hours ptr with all cards at disposal and I'm bored. My mind is still thinking of old decks I can create on old gwent as I don't care to make any new ones besides the few I've made for ptr. It killed everything I enjoyed about the original.
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Aye, Gwent is moving from "skill beats luck" to "luck beats skill" with the new RNG mechanics alright. I'm also disappointed in the ridiculous card draw and hand size limits, which remove a significant skill aspect both in terms of devaluing tempo and in terms of significantly inhibiting the ability to control round length to your advantage. Skill is just being drastically undermined in Homecoming. I don't think this is an esports thing, as esports thrive on highly competitive, high-skill gameplay. I think this is just horrifying cluelessness in action. It also has the whiff of people who have balance goggles on and forget that the purpose of balance is to ensure people have freedom in how they have their fun in competitive and start thinking instead that balance is all about equalizing everything and start going down the slippery slope of trying to hammer down anything that looks too good or too abusable until the game is a bland, stale mess and balance has been achieved, except the fun is dead and gone.
Skill doesn't mean anything. Opponents has big lead, that's fine go down 3 cards to win, then dry pass and have a full 10 card hand. Wtf.. Rounds are throw away for a 1 round battle. Just make the game 1 round then. I have no feelings when I play. No sense of risk / reward.
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uninstalled it, you can too, there are plenty of other games out there.
Some of us just can't let go as we have had great hopes the game would live up to its potential. Ive spent more on this game than any fame in the 35 plus years I've been gaming. That's because I enjoyed it (back then) and believed in cdpr, plus wanted to help fund cyberpunk. It truly pains me to uninstall but unless some big design changes happen I just don't see playing
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Oh, wait... did I said Gwent? I meant Homecoming - the new Witcher World CCG from CD Project Red. >.>
You mean Boost a Witcher card game
 
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You mean Boost a Witcher card game

While there are legit complains about HC, I seriously struggle to understand this new sentiment... card advantage spies and tutor card aside, what was there in old Gwent that's not about boost or damage?

The core of the game has always been getting bigger number through boosting and damaging in many different ways. What were you even expecting?
 
Maybe from the perspective of a lawyer. "[...] we realized that this form of wide RNG is not something that fits our focus on player skill" is a strong enough sentence. Having Create tamed or (better) removed that what I was hoping for.

Unfortunately, what you were hoping for and what was said are not the same. The initial HC announcement was ambiguous for a reason.

Here is the reality....

1. Developer makes game.
2. Player decides whether they want to play game.

There, that is all there is to it. CDPR isn't obligated to do what you want. You're free to debate the finer points going into the "process". You're free to give feedback. Ideally feedback where you clearly state where you see a problem, why and alternatives or solutions. I've done plenty of it myself. Expecting or demanding it to go anywhere is naive.

The initial HC announcement said and implied a lot of stuff. Just look at the title. They also said Gwent was returning to it's roots and player hands count as a row. Yeah, smoke and mirrors :).

For my own personal situation it's quite simple. Do I think this game is worth playing? Yes, no, maybe? See, fortunately I don't owe CDPR anything either. So if, for instance, I think they had no idea what the hell they're trying to create, still don't, likely never will and the game is complete shit I won't play it. If, on the other hand, I felt it was an enjoyable product I likely would play it. I won't bother indicating which way I've been leaning for the last year+.

But zero rng makes games boring...There is a reason arpgs have damage variables instead of flat damage. And crit damage exists for that reason too. I think the less rng this game gets the worse it gets too.

The less RNG it gets the worse it gets implies the more RNG the better. A bit of a simplification don't you think? There is a rather large difference between draw/mulligan RNG and slapping it directly on card abilities, by the way. To be completely fair it does appear like the 6 month time table was extremely ambitious. It wouldn't at all be surprising if many of those card abilities see further changes.
 
I just counted: From hundrets of cards in the PTR there are 35 cards with random abilities and I believe 10 cards with create, of which 5 are the runestones which are basically the same card. Out of the random crads, most are from the reveal archetype, in which you often times reveal cards from your opponents deck, so it makes sense to not show you their whole deck. Also it seems to encourage special/artifact decks so you can put some consistency in your reveals. Most of the other random cards are ongoin effects, like do one damage on turn end or when something dies, which makes sense to be random both from a technincal and a gameplay standpoint to reduce interruptions of the game.

Of course you can criticise the new design of reveal or say that you want to do every little point of damage yourself, but calling the developers liers is not justified in my opinion. They turned down randomness and especially create a lot compared to old Gwent.
 
The initial HC announcement said and implied a lot of stuff. Just look at the title. They also said Gwent was returning to it's roots and player hands count as a row. Yeah, smoke and mirrors :).

For example, they wrote

"Also, rows in the front and back would ALWAYS grant a different buff when a unit is placed there."

So, here is not smoke and mirrors. It clearly says that rows in the front and back would always grant a different buff. They could not uphold their promise. It's not a tragedy, mind you. It's like when you go to a restaurant and they tell you that the pizza is going to have on top true italian mozzarella. If that's not the case you might be disappointed...

In their letter they didn't say they would remove: one bronze copy, one row, armor, full Moon, crew tag, strengthen abilities, swap, reveal card in hands... Instead they chose to address the community concern with respect to RNG. Alas, one of the few thing that's still present is Create, they added quite a lot of damage X random units and added few highroll cards. They revolutionized everything, but kept the one thing they promised to address.

They turned down randomness and especially create a lot compared to old Gwent.

Gascon.png


Yes, they did. They Create a lot.
 
still dont get the point, why do you comlain , you dont lvoe to rng cards , dont use them let use to people who loves them, anyway you are epic skilled players and can win this shitty no skill rng :rolleyes:

i dont like pizza, lets remove pizza from the world xD
 
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