Why are we not talking Gord?

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If you take a look at the latest meta report and the latest meta report of team Leviathian you see that Nature´s Gift (SC) and Precision Strike (SC) has an above average win rate and both use Harald Gord as a finisher. This season I (Pro Rank) was most successful with Nature´s Gift and also used Harald Gord as a finisher.

You are completely right, that Harald Gord is a problem in SC deck but usually not in SY decks. So I would suggest to alter him as following:

Harald Gord (strength 1, provision 8):
Deploy: Boost self by 0.
Increase the boost by 1 for every special card you played this game.
Insanity, Fee (1): Damage a random enemy with the lowest strength

=> So for both fraction this would mean a value potential of three less. SY could use him for two ways additionally either as a spender of unused coins or as a destroyer of units being protected by a shield. Insanity gives this second opportunity also to SC.
=> There might be nice tradeoffs (Will I use him early to destroy a defended unit or wait for more value potential)
=> Additionally, it better fits the Witcher 2 character (a cheap but weak mercenary)
 
If you take a look at the latest meta report and the latest meta report of team Leviathian you see that Nature´s Gift (SC) and Precision Strike (SC) has an above average win rate and both use Harald Gord as a finisher. This season I (Pro Rank) was most successful with Nature´s Gift and also used Harald Gord as a finisher.

You are completely right, that Harald Gord is a problem in SC deck but usually not in SY decks. So I would suggest to alter him as following:

Harald Gord (strength 1, provision 8):
Deploy: Boost self by 0.
Increase the boost by 1 for every special card you played this game.
Insanity, Fee (1): Damage a random enemy with the lowest strength

=> So for both fraction this would mean a value potential of three less. SY could use him for two ways additionally either as a spender of unused coins or as a destroyer of units being protected by a shield. Insanity gives this second opportunity also to SC.
=> There might be nice tradeoffs (Will I use him early to destroy a defended unit or wait for more value potential)
=> Additionally, it better fits the Witcher 2 character (a cheap but weak mercenary)

- Not a bad proposal but... how will random dmg help you target a specific enemy like you point out in you example..?

Another proposal...
How about we leave Gord as it is and make Ozzy a 7p card..? :coolstory:
:beer:
I'm joking ofc !
 
- Not a bad proposal but... how will random dmg help you target a specific enemy like you point out in you example..?

Another proposal...
How about we leave Gord as it is and make Ozzy a 7p card..? :coolstory:
:beer:
I'm joking ofc !

Well, if we nerv a card so badly (minus 3 value) another benefit must be connected. And if you want to destroy an engine you have to play him with much lower body early.
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
It does set you at a disadvantage. You have to play a bunch of special cards that need symbiosis on the board to provide real value. The disadvantage is less with Nature's gift, of course, but even then your Circles of Life are 6 for 5, your Tempering is 6 for 4, your Caress is 4 for 4 if you have no dryad, even your best card - rebuke - is only 8 for five if you have a 5-point target. Not to mention, all of these "extra" points (which by the way, I wouldn't call the treants "pointslam") come at the cost of your active leader ability playing for slow 6. And in a PS deck all of these cards are worse.

The tutors are strong, yes, and chaining is a thing, but in a devotion deck you don't play Oneiro, and in a non-devo deck you will typically not play CoF or even Council, because god forbid people don't squeeze in Justice and volunteers in every ST deck. So yes, you do miss Gord on occasion. And you do lose R1. And @Jamborinio no, Gord doesn't "easily play for >15," and yes these decks require skill to play. If you want to win more than you lose that is.

When i talk about Symbiosis and treant pointslam, i am indeed referring to Nature's Gift only. Since these treants are usually only 1-3pts, it might give the illusion to some that its not a lot, but i think its over 15 "free" points on an average match, that makes it on par with fruits of Ysgith value, without even considering the 3 vitality charges.

On a Precision Strike Gord is also pretty powerful, but at least you arent getting triple value from cheap nature specials (the card's effect, the treants spawning and the boosting of Gord)
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If you take a look at the latest meta report and the latest meta report of team Leviathian you see that Nature´s Gift (SC) and Precision Strike (SC) has an above average win rate and both use Harald Gord as a finisher. This season I (Pro Rank) was most successful with Nature´s Gift and also used Harald Gord as a finisher.

You are completely right, that Harald Gord is a problem in SC deck but usually not in SY decks. So I would suggest to alter him as following:

Harald Gord (strength 1, provision 8):
Deploy: Boost self by 0.
Increase the boost by 1 for every special card you played this game.
Insanity, Fee (1): Damage a random enemy with the lowest strength

=> So for both fraction this would mean a value potential of three less. SY could use him for two ways additionally either as a spender of unused coins or as a destroyer of units being protected by a shield. Insanity gives this second opportunity also to SC.
=> There might be nice tradeoffs (Will I use him early to destroy a defended unit or wait for more value potential)
=> Additionally, it better fits the Witcher 2 character (a cheap but weak mercenary)

Actually, that's an awful proposal, that would make Gord even better, as you could use insanity to transform his points into damage which is more valuable, greatly reducing the risk of tall removal in case you dont have last say.
 
"Insanity, Fee (1): Damage a random enemy with the lowest strength "

I hear the sounds of 100 Vysigota players screaming in protest.

To answer your original question, no one complains about Gord because he is a finishing card for 2 factions, one that GREATLY needed finishers before his creation. Scoiatel spent a full year without a finisher of any note, then a year with Great Oak as its only finisher, which while very good, was frequently lacerated.

I disagree that Gord should have his provisions raised, because there are a number of 7 provision cards that will can achieve his point output at that provision level, so he fits right in. Immortals, Saul, Werecat, Anna Strenger, Glynyss, The Beast, and all of the MM 7 point engines can achieve similar points to Gord IF unanswered. The only difference is that Gord (and to a lesser extent Yaevin) are 7 point finishers. Gord even has a 7 provision direct counter, Black Blood, that is seldom used.

That said, unless a full overhaul of the 7p cards transpires (since there are many less than stellar card at that provision cost as well) I believe Gord should stay as is.
 
Actually, that's an awful proposal, that would make Gord even better, as you could use insanity to transform his points into damage which is more valuable, greatly reducing the risk of tall removal in case you dont have last say.

Well, on the other hand you have 2 less power and 1 more provisions. It can also happen that you target only units with armour. Maybe a compromise would be to limit his ability to 3 times a turn. Then Vysigota is still in danger. ;)
And you reduce your tall removal thread basically by the points the card lost.
 
Gord, like Radeyah and Ciri Nova, supports unique playing style and deckbuilding. I like the card. I enjoy having a deck constraint and trying to squeeze from the card, as much as value as possible.

One of the few Syndicate deck I ever played is Congregate-Gord with a lot of Crime cards. Way more fun than swarm-Congregate and all the spamming token engine.

I'd rather see Nature's Gift nerfed...
 
When i talk about Symbiosis and treant pointslam, i am indeed referring to Nature's Gift only. Since these treants are usually only 1-3pts, it might give the illusion to some that its not a lot, but i think its over 15 "free" points on an average match, that makes it on par with fruits of Ysgith value, without even considering the 3 vitality charges.
The numbers keep getting exaggerated for the sake of argument here. You can't have 15 free points "on average" per match from Nature cards, even in a devotion deck. What you are probably referring to is the total value of all treants created from Symbiosis, NOT those from Nature's Gift alone.

Coming back to Gord, I'll say again he's exactly where he needs to be. There is a reason no one plays Gord in a 15-16-unit deck.
 

rrc

Forum veteran
I don’t know how many of you watched the Open tournament yesterday, but there was a deck brought by Magpie with Redeyah+FeignDeath on DeadeyeAmbush. He played against SW and won that game due to a 7P card which got him 17 points. But that card is not Gord, but BoneTalisman. It is just a 7P card. So, should it be nerfed to be at least 9P? The story is almost the same as Gord. You build the entire deck around a few cards (at least bone talisman has support card like Isengrim, but Gord doesn’t) and go for one final big power play. With Gord you go tall and you are susceptible to tall punish this doesn’t have any such disadvantages.

I know they are different. I am telling that to make a point. When you build an entire deck around a card and which has a lot of disadvantages because of it (mulligan nightmare, super low tempo in first two rounds) I think it is a fine card. I know Gord is very strong. But it has its weakness and a good player can beat it easily, unless the opponent brings an engine heavy deck and on blue coin.

And on the tournament most of the times Gord got around 10-12 point boost playing for 15 points. It is huge for a 7P card but the entire game is played for him and he is susceptible for tall punish unless you have last say which is super hard since your R1&R2 are very low tempo.

If he has to be nerfed, he can be made 8P (or) coming with 2 power as default; and not more than that. Any more harsh nerf will kill that deck.
 
I don’t know how many of you watched the Open tournament yesterday, but there was a deck brought by Magpie with Redeyah+FeignDeath on DeadeyeAmbush. He played against SW and won that game due to a 7P card which got him 17 points. But that card is not Gord, but BoneTalisman. It is just a 7P card. So, should it be nerfed to be at least 9P?

Amen. :ok:

Nerf after nerf, there are archetypes that are no longer playable, like traps and harmony, or that have been removed from the game. I really hope that Gord stays the way it is.

I'd rather see cards buffed than nerfed. Buff some Nilfgaard archetypes (the faction no one is playing at the Gwent Open)...
 
I think He could have a little nerf. I think it could boost 1 point per special scoiatael/sybdicate
 
I think he's fine. If you put the opponent on him, just fight for R1. The fact that he can be reset and requires a devotion to spells makes him vulnerable and predictable. I've seen a lot of answers to him being played nowadays.

Plus it's always hilarious when you Tibor into him.
 
I disagree that Gord should have his provisions raised, because there are a number of 7 provision cards that will can achieve his point output at that provision level, so he fits right in. Immortals, Saul, Werecat, Anna Strenger, Glynyss, The Beast, and all of the MM 7 point engines can achieve similar points to Gord IF unanswered. The only difference is that Gord (and to a lesser extent Yaevin) are 7 point finishers. Gord even has a 7 provision direct counter, Black Blood, that is seldom used.
The difference is that they are answerable points over time, Gord you can just drop at round 3 at full value.
 
I don’t know how many of you watched the Open tournament yesterday, but there was a deck brought by Magpie with Redeyah+FeignDeath on DeadeyeAmbush. He played against SW and won that game due to a 7P card which got him 17 points. But that card is not Gord, but BoneTalisman. It is just a 7P card. So, should it be nerfed to be at least 9P? The story is almost the same as Gord. You build the entire deck around a few cards (at least bone talisman has support card like Isengrim, but Gord doesn’t) and go for one final big power play. With Gord you go tall and you are susceptible to tall punish this doesn’t have any such disadvantages.

I know they are different. I am telling that to make a point. When you build an entire deck around a card and which has a lot of disadvantages because of it (mulligan nightmare, super low tempo in first two rounds) I think it is a fine card. I know Gord is very strong. But it has its weakness and a good player can beat it easily, unless the opponent brings an engine heavy deck and on blue coin.

And on the tournament most of the times Gord got around 10-12 point boost playing for 15 points. It is huge for a 7P card but the entire game is played for him and he is susceptible for tall punish unless you have last say which is super hard since your R1&R2 are very low tempo.

If he has to be nerfed, he can be made 8P (or) coming with 2 power as default; and not more than that. Any more harsh nerf will kill that deck.

There is a huge difference in difficulty trying to get the benefit from a bone talisman than there is from simply dropping a Gord in round 3. We're in a control meta and most things don't stay the board for long. You see bone talisman occasionally in a Gedy deck, or a dead eye deck, and that's about it. You see Gord in pretty much every SC deck and a large portion of SY decks. That's telling, don't you think :)

That toxic SC Precision Strike deck that basically just crams in every removal card going is tier 1 for a very good reason. Building decks full of special cards is now very viable, particularly as SC or SY. Nature's Rebuke regularly plays 7 for 5 and carry-over on Saesenthessis, Sheldon and/or your Sentinels is very powerful.
 
I haven't read all comments in this thread but I have no problem with Gort's ability in general.
The problem lies in the double echo cards, the low provision costs of the card and how specials work.
It's annoying to play against Gort decks of both factions (SY & ST) especially when you have blue coin.
The typical strategy is to play as many damage/removal and hand buff cards as possible and see what your opponent does.
If you play lots of engines this is not a big issue but if your deck requires enemy units (already sounds stupid) it's not fun to play against.
It reminds me of the early homecoming versions with all those non interactive ST decks with artifacts and the infamous Witcher trio finisher:

Toxic gameplay which kills the game

This should definitely be fixed in the upcoming patch I think it would be fair to change Gort to a devotion card.
Then see how it does it can still easily reach high value but with worse cards and less consistency.
 
Not only is he extremely cheap for the crazy amounts of points he gives, but he also supports that toxic no-unit control crap gameplay. And this is a conclusion we've reached months ago but still lmao Blizzar.. I mean CDPR ain't doing anything xD
 
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The recent SY crimes deck has highlighted that Gord has to change. Gord regularly plays for 14 for 7 provisions on deploy. The crime deck is not handicapping itself by including many special cards for Gord, it's actually the opposite due to the intimidate tag boosting units by playing crime specials. Gord in his current state shouldn't exist when specials are so common, units can spawn specials, and echo cards are played twice. I'm sick of having to absolutely have last-say and hold a tall punish because my opponent decided to play many crime specials in their crime intimate deck giving them a 14 point finisher. If he's not going to be reworked he should be 9 provisions minimum.
 
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The recent SY crimes deck has highlighted that Gord has to change. Gord regularly plays for 14 for 7 provisions on deploy. The crime deck is not handicapping itself by including many special cards for Gord, it's actually the opposite due to the intimidate tag boosting units by playing crime specials. Gord in his current state shouldn't exist when specials are so common, units can spawn specials, and echo cards are played twice. I'm sick of having to absolutely have last-say and hold a tall punish because my opponent decided to play many crime specials in their crime intimate deck giving them a 14 point finisher. If he's not going to be reworked he should be 9 provisions minimum.
To my mind this card should also be targeted. Lower body + higher provision might help.
Additionally, I still like my old idea of Harald.

If you take a look at the latest meta report and the latest meta report of team Leviathian you see that Nature´s Gift (SC) and Precision Strike (SC) has an above average win rate and both use Harald Gord as a finisher. This season I (Pro Rank) was most successful with Nature´s Gift and also used Harald Gord as a finisher.

You are completely right, that Harald Gord is a problem in SC deck but usually not in SY decks. So I would suggest to alter him as following:

Harald Gord (strength 1, provision 8):
Deploy: Boost self by 0.
Increase the boost by 1 for every special card you played this game.
Insanity, Fee (1): Damage a random enemy with the lowest strength

Many people consider defender´s to be problematic as it is much less likely that you can stop a powerful engine.

So what opportunities to you currently have to eliminate "protected" units:

Mage Infiltrator: Works on Vyso but many have higher body than 3
All random damage maker like Herjka, Vernossiel, Reckless Fury and so on. But the probability to elliminate the engine via random damage is not quite high.
Curse of Corruption: Engine must be highest unit
Glorious Hunt: Engine must have highest base power
Blizzard: Engine must be lowest power unit
Predatory Dive: Engine must be lowest power unit
Brehen: Engine must be far-right unit

What many players currently do is heatwaving the defender (or to a lesser extent moving the defender or purifying him) and try to use their other control option for the strong engine. Other options are of course having the stronger engine and using cards like Yrden punish. Furthermore one might consider the opponent defender round to be lost and focus on the other 2 rounds.

To be honest, I really do not have problems with defenders. Actually, I like them as they allow you to a specific extent one round to really play your engine. Nevertheless, I think that currently there are too few control option for protected unit.

This Harald might be one additional tool for elliminating protected units. Furthermore, one might think about adding a counter of 5 maybe to make sure that he gets not too engine destroying.
Furthermore, one might give the Insanity only on Devotion and/or only if you use a SC leader.
 
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