Why blame the players?

[4RM3D]

Perusing these forums, I see more users complaining about decks they dislike (regardless of whether those decks are OP, annoying or whatever). I guess everyone has there own opinions; some dislike poison, others hate everything black and gold. What I don't understand is why players are being blamed for playing those decks. I am honestly curious and looking for good arguments.

These decks (and, by extension, mechanics, cards, combos) are in the game and thus meant to be played. The tools are there. So, why not use them, if you want to? If something is "broken", it's up to the devs to fix it. Not to be confused with bugged. If something is actually bugged and it's actively being exploited, then yes, you can blame players. However, playing a (perceived) OP deck is not exploiting the game (contrary to popular believe).

I think users need to realize that not everyone is playing the game for the same reasons. For some players, making their own decks is more important than winning, while others just try to find the strongest netdeck to get as many wins. And some players want to play a combo decks for big finishers, while others take pleasure in disrupting the opponent's play. All of these play styles are valid. To each their own.

So, why blame the players?

 

[Guest 4368268]

Well, other players certainly don't have to be playing to accommodate my enjoyment rather than their own. Having said that, I often times just feel like it's a very cheesy thing to do. For example certain decks like Dijkstra townsfolk are so auto-pilot and strong that it feels like you're playing against A.I given how similar all these games end up being. I like coming up against interesting concepts from time to time but I feel like netdeckers make people too anxious to try anything because they'll just get blown out.

It's also because in HC I feel netdecks are a lot more simple to actually pilot adding to the frustration. Back in OB Gwent I faced tons of Alchemy Nilfgaard, Greatswords, NG Handbuff etc. however it didn't bother me as much cause playing said decks it was very plausible to see errors that would determine the result, adding to the tension of these games. In HC the netdecks are very streamlined because of guides and also draw consistency and the simpler card design. I do realize what I'm describing is largely something the game itself is culpable for though.

I'm not saying everyone has to come up with their own 'unique' concept all the time (I know I haven't) but players that on day 1 of a given patch immediately start asking streamers to make decks for them.. it feels very mundane. I'd like to play other Gwent players, not poor imitations of Gwent streamers. That would ultimately be my complaint.

I get asking for help constructing decks or getting inspired by what you see people do, but copying whichever deck is the most popular/strong card for card and then following a guide card for card, though they can obviously do whatever they want, feels very cheesy to me.

 

[dietbob196050]

Can't blame people for being who they are.
The only things that irritates me about players are as mentioned, those who take advantage of known bugs (can't really blame them for the bug) but it's just not the right thing to do !
and those who feel the need to play out there hand after opponent passes (when they are obviously going to win)
what's the point? (unless it's to complete a contract) I get that. Take your win and move on

Enjoy
Dietbob

 

[Iuliandrei]

Probably because it's their choice. It seems to me that the majority doesn't care about the gameplay, they just want to see a number go up and pat themselves on the back.
And maybe you can't blame any individual, maybe there's nothing wrong with trying to find a thing that makes you good about yourself, but like that saying goes "No single rain drop thinks it's responsible for the flood", the result is that their choice diminishes the enjoyment of others.

 

[Pacifixer]

It's unreasonable to blame the player for his deck choice, BUT IMHO there are some exceptions.
Certain decks / strategies are just so toxic that normal people wouldn't play them. I'm obviously talking about mill - the most toxic, annoying, infuriating strategy in Gwent. It's not META, it's not good, it's not even viable in casual, it rarely works, but when it does . . . . . !@#$%^!!!!!
There are also other "shitty" strategies like no-unit decks, Lockdown or all-in Thrive (i will never miss a chance to complain about brain-dead pointslam decks like Ysgith all-in Thrive ), that just suck out all the fun.
On the other hand, i don't understand why are so many people angry about others playing meta decks. Yes it is kind of a dick move to play the most OP T0 deck in casual, but it's casual - you can just dodge it.

 

[Barracuda88]

It's probably not entirely mature, but it's hard to separate "people" from "things" they do. Even if what they do is perfectly legal. Look at it this way. We all know there are taunts in the game. Imagine playing against someone who spams taunts every two seconds your entire match. Taunts are fine, because the devs included them, and maybe it's a conscious and valid tactic to make you lose focus, but wouldn't you be annoyed by the "person", too? Personally, I feel the same way about NG "players."

 

[wonderboy870]

Perusing these forums, I see more users complaining about decks they dislike (regardless of whether those decks are OP, annoying or whatever). I guess everyone has there own opinions; some dislike poison, others hate everything black and gold. What I don't understand is why players are being blamed for playing those decks. I am honestly curious and looking for good arguments.

These decks (and, by extension, mechanics, cards, combos) are in the game and thus meant to be played. The tools are there. So, why not use them, if you want to? If something is "broken", it's up to the devs to fix it. Not to be confused with bugged. If something is actually bugged and it's actively being exploited, then yes, you can blame players. However, playing a (perceived) OP deck is not exploiting the game (contrary to popular believe).

I think users need to realize that not everyone is playing the game for the same reasons. For some players, making their own decks is more important than winning, while others just try to find the strongest netdeck to get as many wins. And some players want to play a combo decks for big finishers, while others take pleasure in disrupting the opponent's play. All of these play styles are valid. To each their own.

So, why blame the players?

1. I just initiated 4 straight games against NG in seasonal. I refuse to play against NG in seasonal, thus I left all 4 times. NG is by far the best faction for seasonal, hands down bar none. It so good that when I just want crowns I run them. You are correct this is the fault of CDPR. At the same time, I blame the players for engaging against Nilfgard. If everyone did what I do and auto forfeit against them, CDPR would be forced to act to fix the imbalance.

2. The issue isn’t being angry at only the player or only CDPR. Winning at all costs is OK especially with contracts tied to winning with leaders, contracts tied to winning with factions, and contracts tied to using specific abilities like poison to do so. At the same time, with no ability to ban a faction in casual play the frustration mounts. Yes it is CDPRs fault for not fixing it, but it is also the fault of the player who chooses to take the easy way out (I do it too, this is more a devils advocate position.) A good way to penalize this behavior is not giving GGs. I don’t personally advise it, but I certainly understand it.

 

[Draconifors]

For some players, making their own decks is more important than winning, while others just try to find the strongest netdeck to get as many wins. And some players want to play a combo decks for big finishers, while others take pleasure in disrupting the opponent's play. All of these play styles are valid.

Agreed.

And for that reason, in my opinion the only one to blame when it comes to "this deck/faction is annoying/"OP"" is oneself. Not the other players, not the developers, not the game. No one's forcing you to dislike X, no one's forcing you to be annoyed by Y; it's all you.
It's a lot easier to blame someone/something else, though, that's only natural -- and so that's exactly what happens. (And before anyone asks, yes, I'm guilty of it as well.)

 

[LeftHookGoodNight]

Not the developers,

In this patch i've played against nilfgaard poison deck in 12 of my 15 ranked games. This is happening just because devs killed all playable archetypes under the name of "BALANCING" and forced players to play that way. They have no idea how to balance their game. It is boring as hell to see your opponents play same deck in each game. As a player i am NOT guilty. Just because devs dont do their jobs well enough, i have to see same deck in each game.

 

[wonderboy870]

In this patch i've played against nilfgaard poison deck in 12 of my 15 ranked games. This is happening just because devs killed all playable archetypes under the name of "BALANCING" and forced players to play that way. They have no idea how to balance their game. It is boring as hell to see your opponents play same deck in each game. As a player i am NOT guilty. Just because devs dont do their jobs well enough, i have to see same deck in each game.

This plus a lack of alternative styles of equal value. For example, if instead of poison doom was a common theme among monsters, then even unbalanced people would have something else to use besides poison. Conceptually it doesn’t sound better, but at least with a different faction you get some more variety when dealing with the same problem.

 

[Draconifors]

In this patch i've played against nilfgaard poison deck in 12 of my 15 ranked games. This is happening just because devs killed all playable archetypes under the name of "BALANCING" and forced players to play that way. They have no idea how to balance their game. It is boring as hell to see your opponents play same deck in each game. As a player i am NOT guilty. Just because devs dont do their jobs well enough, i have to see same deck in each game.

Aaaand this is exactly what I meant.

 

[Tyr117]

Perusing these forums, I see more users complaining about decks they dislike (regardless of whether those decks are OP, annoying or whatever). I guess everyone has there own opinions; some dislike poison, others hate everything black and gold. What I don't understand is why players are being blamed for playing those decks. I am honestly curious and looking for good arguments.

These decks (and, by extension, mechanics, cards, combos) are in the game and thus meant to be played. The tools are there. So, why not use them, if you want to? If something is "broken", it's up to the devs to fix it. Not to be confused with bugged. If something is actually bugged and it's actively being exploited, then yes, you can blame players. However, playing a (perceived) OP deck is not exploiting the game (contrary to popular believe).

I think users need to realize that not everyone is playing the game for the same reasons. For some players, making their own decks is more important than winning, while others just try to find the strongest netdeck to get as many wins. And some players want to play a combo decks for big finishers, while others take pleasure in disrupting the opponent's play. All of these play styles are valid. To each their own.

So, why blame the players?

Blaming others, in general, is not right no matter what, if we actually look at ourselves we have so much wrong that we won't ever blame or judge anyone else, But, in this regard, I don't play anything that is annoying myself, at least I try to not be annoying as much as possible and have a fun fair match for both of us, but some people do their best to be as annoying as it's possible(Spamming taunts, Wasting time etc), while trying really hard (playing the most OP and annoying deck available), which is toxic behaviour in my opinion, so I don't give them GG in order to show that they were annoying and ruined my Fun, not because I have any quarell with them. And I rarely get annoyed and tilted.

 

[Qzman]

You know what they say, guns don't kill people, people kill people... We all make choices to go either the easy, popular, repetitive way or the harder one where you actually have to use your head. I guess it's the issue where people don't like it when others succeed with less effort.
I haven't played Gwent for long but having switched from Hearthstone I gotta say Gwent is much more forgiving to home made decks and strategies. I could go into deck builder and build a silly deck to my liking and beat a meta deck on ladder, whereas that was unimaginable in Hearthstone, where if you stray more than 1 card from a meta deck you're shark food. I wish more people took advantage of that...

 

[Tyr117]

You know what they say, guns don't kill people, people kill people... We all make choices to go either the easy, popular, repetitive way or the harder one where you actually have to use your head. I guess it's the issue where people don't like it when others succeed with less effort.
I haven't played Gwent for long but having switched from Hearthstone I gotta say Gwent is much more forgiving to home made decks and strategies. I could go into deck builder and build a silly deck to my liking and beat a meta deck on ladder, whereas that was unimaginable in Hearthstone, where if you stray more than 1 card from a meta deck you're shark food. I wish more people took advantage of that...

Exactly, Gwent is much more diverse, it's possible to build a homebrew deck and properly compete with it, anyway I guess it's a bit off topic so, back to the main topic.

 

[BabyLeshen]

Why not introduce something like 'Deck Heat'. The more you use the same cards and same decks, you'll earn less experience per game and cooldown according to time or 'some potions or decoction'. And this must be applied for Seasonal too since we all know how versatile/reliable NG decks in this mode and other factions just sit there get controlled. It'll be fair for everyone like karma concept not too high not too low.

So this will force netdeckers to be creative and not spam same BS cards or deck every single day. And as opponent I know even if I lose the game, I'll earned more experience for my homebrewed/unique/alternate faction/less 'heated' decks. And trust me people will start exploring different factions and decks, don't just sit there lock poison. Personally I love doing that but until some extent only.

And 'Deck Heat' might be varied for beginners, pros etc. We know beginner don't have much cards to start with. Just my thoughts to solve this long running issue lately. Especially with NG.

 

[Tyr117]

Why not introduce something like 'Deck Heat'. The more you use the same cards and same decks, you'll earn less experience per game and cooldown according to time or 'some potions or decoction'. And this must be applied for Seasonal too since we all know how versatile/reliable NG decks in this mode and other factions just sit there get controlled. It'll be fair for everyone like karma concept not too high not too low.

So this will force netdeckers to be creative and not spam same BS cards or deck every single day. And as opponent I know even if I lose the game, I'll earned more experience for my homebrewed/unique/alternate faction/less 'heated' decks. And trust me people will start exploring different factions and decks, don't just sit there lock poison. Personally I love doing that but until some extent only.

And 'Deck Heat' might be varied for beginners, pros etc. We know beginner don't have much cards to start with. Just my thoughts to solve this long running issue lately. Especially with NG.

Being Creative is not something you can force upon people.

 

[StanislavOZZO]

Oh, a thread calling for arguments. Sure, let's look at it from all angles. People who:
- play primarily for for rank (e.g. play the strongest deck continuously until they reach pro rank)
- don't want to get creative
- can't admit to themselves that they are poor players and prefer to feel good by winning with only the strongest deck
- lost a few games to those metas and got annoyed
will tend to play the strongest deck currently available.

If you look at each factor individually, you can't really blame a person for desire to reach a rank, lack of creativity or that they have certain personality traits. However, cumulatively, when you face it across the board many times a day, it is annoying overall. And while I would not blame a particular person, I am not happy about the broader people's approach to the gameplay.

Post automatically merged: May 8, 2020

Why not introduce something like 'Deck Heat'. The more you use the same cards and same decks, you'll earn less experience per game and cooldown according to time or 'some potions or decoction'. And this must be applied for Seasonal too since we all know how versatile/reliable NG decks in this mode and other factions just sit there get controlled. It'll be fair for everyone like karma concept not too high not too low.

It is a great idea, mate. I was suggesting a similar approach limiting the overusing of the same decks. Guess what? I was attacked for suggesting to limit people's freedom.

 

[Archan6el]

Agreed.

And for that reason, in my opinion the only one to blame when it comes to "this deck/faction is annoying/"OP"" is oneself. Not the other players, not the developers, not the game. No one's forcing you to dislike X, no one's forcing you to be annoyed by Y; it's all you.
It's a lot easier to blame someone/something else, though, that's only natural -- and so that's exactly what happens. (And before anyone asks, yes, I'm guilty of it as well.)

Good point. No one is forcing you to be annoyed. If you get annoyed, blame yourself for choosing to play a game that is annoying you. And if the devs choose to ignore or fail to address major concerns from players, they can blame themselves if Gwent is not as successful as they hoped it would be.

 

[Draconifors]

Twisting my words to use them to blame the developers... also only strengthens my point.

------------------

This thread really made me think. Initially, I both agreed and disagreed with the OP, which didn't exactly make sense -- so I approached the core question from different angles. Eventually concluding what I wrote in that apparently controversial (it's just an opinion among many, I really don't care whether anyone agrees or even reads it) post.

 

[Archan6el]

Probably because it's their choice. It seems to me that the majority doesn't care about the gameplay, they just want to see a number go up and pat themselves on the back.
And maybe you can't blame any individual, maybe there's nothing wrong with trying to find a thing that makes you good about yourself, but like that saying goes "No single rain drop thinks it's responsible for the flood", the result is that their choice diminishes the enjoyment of others.

Very true. That's why responsible people build flood barriers. For a game, those responsible people are the devs.