Why exactly you can't do quests and contracts in training mode? (Also, why are some quests so badly designed?)

[ya1]

So I quit ranked for obvious reasons of binary gameplay and rng-dumpstering of the game. But I would still like to play an occasional game of Gwent in the casual mode where I'm not getting punished for things beyond my control and agency. Turns out, I can't...

I'm just back from 3 games in casual. One guy was doing the 35/70 purifies demanded by the two seasonal reward trees (35 purifies? Come on... An average competitive deck has 1 purify so ofc it's gonna be mock-decked by everyone). And the other two were doing either neutral cards daily quest or some bomb or bandit contract or something. Either way, they slammed what they had in hand and forfeited, and I couldn't play Gwent.

Dear devs, why can't I play Gwent?

 

[Payus]

https://www.chess.com/ there ya go.

 

[Messyr]

So I quit ranked for obvious reasons of binary gameplay and rng-dumpstering of the game. But I would still like to play an occasional game of Gwent in the casual mode where I'm not getting punished for things beyond my control and agency. Turns out, I can't...

I'm just back from 3 games in casual. One guy was doing the 35/70 purifies demanded by the two seasonal reward trees (35 purifies? Come on... An average competitive deck has 1 purify so ofc it's gonna be mock-decked by everyone). And the other two were doing either neutral cards daily quest or some bomb or bandit contract or something. Either way, they slammed what they had in hand and forfeited, and I couldn't play Gwent.

Dear devs, why can't I play Gwent?

The most obvious answer is that by playing Gwent "offline" you simply do not contribute to the actual game - the one being a player vs. player experience that is. These games will never support pve play - simply not the right model for that.

https://www.chess.com/ there ya go.

This.

 

[ya1]

The most obvious answer is that by playing Gwent "offline" you simply do not contribute to the actual game

And how do mock-decks that play 10 cards at random and forfeit contribute to the actual game?

It's not that I condone it because I do it, too. Quest design forces it on the players. But If I could do my 70 purifies or 250 bombs or 1500 traps in training, I'd happily do that so that I don't waste time of people who actually wanna play Gwent in casual.

https://www.chess.com/ there ya go.

What?

 

[quintivarium]

So I quit ranked for obvious reasons of binary gameplay and rng-dumpstering of the game. But I would still like to play an occasional game of Gwent in the casual mode where I'm not getting punished for things beyond my control and agency. Turns out, I can't...

I'm just back from 3 games in casual. One guy was doing the 35/70 purifies demanded by the two seasonal reward trees (35 purifies? Come on... An average competitive deck has 1 purify so ofc it's gonna be mock-decked by everyone). And the other two were doing either neutral cards daily quest or some bomb or bandit contract or something. Either way, they slammed what they had in hand and forfeited, and I couldn't play Gwent.

Dear devs, why can't I play Gwent?

I appreaciate the quest fulfilling decks in casual play because I like to be able to experiment with decks I lack cards to make fully competitive, or to play quirky (but weak) decks. Against these decks, I often get good games. When I play netdeck after netdeck, casual loses its pleasure.

 

[ya1]

Against these decks, I often get good games.

I'm talking about people who forfeit at the beginning of R2 and the like. How can you get a good game? It's not a game if they don't try to win.

 

[devivre]

Considering the current state of practice mode there‘s no point in letting it count for quests or contract. Also, it would quickly get very boring to do that. There‘s not much more to say about it at this point.

Also, please focus on ONE topic in this thread and don‘t mix it up with card design discussions or forfeit complaints (there already are threads that do just that... no point in discussing this here again).

 

[Sensimilius]

"One guy was doing the 35/70 purifies" I did that one over the course of 10 days or smnth like that (just casually playing as I would normally)... but now obviously he has less then 10 days to go until the end of this season.

 

[ya1]

Considering the current state of practice mode there‘s no point in letting it count for quests or contract. Also, it would quickly get very boring to do that. There‘s not much more to say about it at this point.

There's a lot to say about it. People who mock-deck ruin the experience of people who wanna play the game. And this is directly caused by the fact that you can't do it offline.

If you could do it offline, mock-deckers would do it there because you don't have to wait for a matchup. And people who wanna play the game AND do the quests on the side (as was the intent, I'm sure) would still do it online. Everyone is happy.

"One guy was doing the 35/70 purifies" I did that one over the course of 10 days or smnth like that (just casually playing as I would normally)... but now obviously he has less then 10 days to go until the end of this season.

I admit I mock-decked it in 3 or 4 games because I don't play everyday, and I wanted those reward trees done before they go. And I've seen maybe a dozen other people doing it (Murphy's Law: ALWAYS when I wanted to actually play...). I feel bad for wasting people's time but what could I do? 35 purifies, and twice? Come on... It's like devs WANT people to mock-deck.

 

[OneWhoCravesSouls]

Because it could be easily abused that way, the best example probably being the win x Matches dailys because winning against the AI isn't exactly that hard.

 

[Messyr]

There's a lot to say about it. People who mock-deck ruin the experience of people who wanna play the game. And this is directly caused by the fact that you can't do it offline.

There are just way too many assumptions in this sentence.

1. They ruin this experience for you. They definitely don't ruin it for everybody. Quite many enjoy the free win out of these matchups to say the least.
2. Casual game mode is for casual plays. It is there for people to chill, to play without the stress of progress, to experiment and goof around with meme decks, and -a shocker- to finish quests with mock decks. I'm fairly positive you won't run into this sort of a problem on ladder.
3. I for one would never ever touch an offline mode. I happily join casual with my mock decks every season once I get these from the seasonal trees - sure, I always build those decks with some competitve twist to at least cause some thinking and confusion for my opponents, but at the end of day we both win: I get my quest, he/she most likely gets the win, while ideally we both had some fun time doing something else then grinding netdecks.

Post automatically merged: Nov 30, 2020

On the other hand, I agree that some of these quests (the ones in seasonal trees like play 40 bombs etc. are the real offenders) are just bad design. At this stage they merely act as roadblocks on your tree progress, and that might just as well be their goal.
I'd gladly agree to a rework on these into something equally difficult or time consuming, yet not as mindnumbing like their current iterations. I'd like to see interesting and personally challenging quests instead, which require thinking and setup.
However, and this might be a showstopper, they need to be accessible and doable with literally starter decks too, making it a bit difficult to design.

 

[devivre]

There's a lot to say about it. People who mock-deck ruin the experience of people who wanna play the game. And this is directly caused by the fact that you can't do it offline.

Most CCGs that I know are not super casual friendly and those who have proper solo content (like Elder Scrolls Online a while back) can also confront you with extremely frustrating AI opponents.

If you want a Gwent solo experience for now it’s best to play Thronebreaker. It doesn’t count towards Gwent quests and yeah, it’s different in many ways but at least you never have to worry about too hard opponents and get a beautiful story.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see a proper solo content for Multiplayer Gwent! With interesting AI opponents, practice challenges, solo tournaments, and whatever. I’d be the first to embrace that and try everything out...

But in it’s current state there’s no point in having quests count for the training mode.

 

[ya1]

I always build those decks with some competitve twist to at least cause some thinking and confusion for my opponents

And that is what devs have in mind, I'm sure, to encourage making creative decks with a twist and then matching them against each other. But the reality is that A REAL LOT OF PEOPLE just slap together as many tags as possible, spam them in casual or seasonal one after another and forfeit. There is no game-fun because the mock-deckers are not playing the game. And the two crowns aren't "free" because you basically have to spend that time staring at the screen like a zombie.

Most CCGs that I know are not super casual friendly and those who have proper solo content (like Elder Scrolls Online a while back) can also confront you with extremely frustrating AI opponents.

If you want a Gwent solo experience for now it’s best to play Thronebreaker. It doesn’t count towards Gwent quests and yeah, it’s different in many ways but at least you never have to worry about too hard opponents and get a beautiful story.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see a proper solo content for Multiplayer Gwent! With interesting AI opponents, practice challenges, solo tournaments, and whatever. I’d be the first to embrace that and try everything out...

But in it’s current state there’s no point in having quests count for the training mode.

You seem to have misunderstood. This is not to improve the offline mode. This is to make quests count there so that the mock-deckers (people who are only interested in spamming cards to do quests without wanting to actually have a real game) can do it offline without polluting the "real player" pool in the online modes.

 

[Messyr]

And that is what devs have in mind, I'm sure, to encourage making creative decks with a twist and then matching them against each other. But the reality is that A REAL LOT OF PEOPLE just slap together as many tags as possible, spam them in casual or seasonal one after another and forfeit. There is no game-fun because the mock-deckers are not playing the game. And the two crowns aren't "free" because you basically have to spend that time staring at the screen like a zombie.



You seem to have misunderstood. This is not to improve the offline mode. This is to make quests count there so that the mock-deckers (people who are only interested in spamming cards to do quests without wanting to actually have a real game) can do it offline without polluting the "real player" pool in the online modes.

I understand your point, but I really believe this is a pointless discussion (don't get me wrong, no offense to your opinion here). This CCG model will never support offline play, as it's focus is the player vs player environment. Welfare rewards (like offline quests yielding ores and such) will never be a thing without actual pvp engagement.
This is why I'd focus more on the overhaul of these quests instead.

 

[devivre]

You seem to have misunderstood. This is not to improve the offline mode. This is to make quests count there so that the mock-deckers (people who are only interested in spamming cards to do quests without wanting to actually have a real game) can do it offline without polluting the "real player" pool in the online modes.

You do not seem to get the point: this is not going to change anything - as mentioned before, even in CCGs that offer ways to earn rewards solo and play their quests against computer opponents, annoying decks exist in Multiplayer. Nothing will change. Plus, it’s still going to be more interesting to play against real opponents than to grind against a monotonous AI.

Besides, not every deck you consider a “mock-deck” is actually supposed to be one.

Also, not many people would support an abusable system like this, even if practice mode is insanely unfun to play at the moment.

As mentioned before, this is never going to happen in the current state of practice mode.

 

[StanislavOZZO]

I feel for the author of the post, but that's the reality of it. Casual is the only way to go for a quick completion of daily quests.

You can limit your frustration a little bit by not playing casual on Tuesdays. This is when weekly quests are refreshed in the Journey and higher chance to get that experience with spam 40 artefacts or whatever the task is that week.

 

[Gyg]

Legends of Runeterra lets you complete quests in matches against AI. I see no harm in doing quests against AI - Gwent has already large playerbase and can afford some matches to be go against AI. No quest decks in casual will improve the experience of players.

 

[devivre]

Legends of Runeterra lets you complete quests in matches against AI.

Yes, but LoR has a ton of different AI decks.

 

[ya1]

Yes, but LoR has a ton of different AI decks.

Thanks for the active replies but the quality of the offline mode has nothing to do with the appeal in this thread. It is just to keep mock-deckers out of the matchup pools.

I mean mock-deckers as in people who completely do not care how games go. The quality of their desired interaction with the game - scoring maximum tags per minute - would not suffer in the least in the offline mode. In fact, they would benefit from it because they would not have to wait for an online match just to score their 10 tags per game.

People who wanna do their quests and enjoy the quality of a multiplayer mode would still do that in multiplayer. Textbook win-win situation.