I know that these specific quests have certain impacts on the game and might slightly change things, which is really cool and exactly in line with what you would expect from what the speaker is saying.
The issue is that these are presented as if it is the norm, with comments like "And this is just one quest", "Shows how complex the quest can be in Cyberpunk", "Every choice you make will change how the game plays out" that to me is extremely misleading, remember we as player only know what is told to us in these trailers at this moment in time or what other information CDPR gives us.
Its sort of like me making a game and tell you that in my game there is the most complex character customization in a RPG game to date and whatever you choose will severely change how your character plays throughout the game. And then when I release the game, none of these things have any impact in the game whatsoever except for one or two quests. The rest of the quests simply uses a 50% chance of going your way or not, regardless of what stats you chose. Then that would be misleading as well and you would expect these stats to play a significant role in the game, because that was what I told you.
Otherwise I should have said that for a few quests, these stats will matter, but for the most part they don't.-
If you look at the trailer from Divinity you can see how you sell your game with accurate information, if you have played the game I think you would agree that it is pretty much spot on:
But it has no impact on the game.
It does not matter if you help netwatch or the voodoo boys, because the game World does not change in the game. Your headcanon does not make it real in the game.
Saying that Vic is wrong with his assumption (after scanning you) is simply ignoring what the game tells you. Especially when you take into account that hellman says the same thing.
the vdbs agro you. Placide sends me a text if he lives. In the game world, whether the vdbs have leadership at all matters. You know you can choose not to kill them, thats not headcannon
Hellman never gives a timeline. and hellman is surprised you even exist. Its the first time the chip actually even worked.
sadly its a faild cause to argue about that..
because they will awnser.,.. yeeesss... but it dosnt effect the ennndddd
you can tell them about the illusion of choice...
and that nothing can changes a 1000 times, the end even in Pen&paper it dosnt change [...]
I guess its because I played the game differently than you.
my first char was almost all hand to hand, and a crafter. I looked at the crafting system and realized you can get more parts than you spend if you craft smart, and turn parts into whatever you need.
sadly I didn't realize you couldn't craft cyberware, so my first damage upgrade, gorilla arms wouldn't be available until street cred 20. So basically, loot barely mattered, it was mostly for parts/money, and if I really needed to I could make parts, quests generally gave enough money since I didnt need to buy stuff often.
so I upgraded every once in awhile, and generally enjoyed trying to come up with builds. in my other playthroughs, I figured out the game, and you can basically find legendary gear and iconics from specific content that you upgrade/change mods, so loot ain't that important even for gun chars I played.
as for the side quests, I realized blues are essentially unecessary, and didnt just look at quests as being about killing, most of them are little mini stories that give you insight into the world and npc lives. you read emails, over hear convos and read shards. So for me each quest was the puzzle of how to survive a gunfight with just fists, and figuring out what the story was on each case. I also mostly do quests as I feel interested, not as a checklist, so its mostly exploration for me, when they get kinda rote, I do something more focused
I still haven't done everything because I made new chars, different builds/identities, and usually ended the story around level 30-35. It was surprising how things take on a new light when I played dif. Its also surprising how things changed without you knowing. Meredith is killed if you don't side with her(you can find the body). If you tell Anna the cops betrayed her, she apparently goes to war with them instead of or in addition to skipping town. Many npcs get cemetery stones if they died. I could threaten woodsman that he'd end up like jotaro, if I did that quest.
for me the games got a lot to delve into, I learn new things all the time and a lot of different ways to approach things. Its not infinite, but I'm generally amazed how much work was put in. There are definite flaws, lots of perks/items don't work, shops crafting recipes are bugged. Can't replay a lot of side stuff you might want to, like competitions. The main story is really dense after the first time, and not as skippable as I'd like. There's also ways I'd improve/expand some of the content but overall, the game ranks high for me.
I'm in the same boat as you. My first playthrough took roughly 90 hours as I cleared the map and my build was mainly stealth. So I spent most of my time sneaking around and trying to solve gigs without being detected. And almost everything in the game CAN be done stealthily.
My second playthrough has been mostly melee with the mantis blades and they feel ridiculously overpowered. Instead of sneaking around, I rush in and clear the area before getting flatlined. Totally different approach.
Also, I've made a point of making the opposite choices to my first playthrough and like you, I have found how intricately everything is linked. Meredith Stout was a good example.
There is a lot of depth to the game and even the blue NCPD scanner hustles are linked to gigs and side quests sometimes.
Personally, I am really enjoying playing the game. But unlike some people, I had realistic expectations and wasn't expecting CDPR to reinvent the wheel. And whilst I watched the marketing drivel, I am fully aware that doesn't match the end product. If you see a Big Mac in the ads and you order one at McDonald's expecting the same thing you're going to be in for one hell of a surprise.
sadly its a faild cause to argue about that..
because they will awnser.,.. yeeesss... but it dosnt effect the ennndddd
you can tell them about the illusion of choice...
and that nothing can changes a 1000 times, the end even in Pen&paper it dosnt change [...]
That would be an improvement actually from what I saw back in the day. It was really hard to pin down what it was all about in the end.
There are even news reports covering player actions in Night City.
Props though for effort.
My take is that position from V starts and all that happens, I don't see this story working if we put V in more centric position. That would be requirement for bigger changes in game world. Becoming politician, corp boss, it would be very different game.
Yeah, and I like him too. As merc we got, he makes certain things possible, that would be very convoluted on some other paths. It's also source material things, I mean game is faithful to cyberpunk literature. Characters in general may change something in the world, but not the whole world.
Yeah, all those things that sure would make sense given situation of V...
Something I really liked how we are often observers. We observe Peralez, observe what is happening in that political aspect. We do gig or even NCPD mission and stuff we read actually make sense. We know there's no way fighting that all, even though people take at least some areas back, after you clear that area from gang members.
So this sort of things made world believable for me, not only our surroundings but our position made sense in the setting. That we are not Batman in cyberpunk world.
Funny considering in the main quest you're anything but an edgerunner. You're special for your Keanu disease instead of being a low-life trying to climb up (with all the cons and pros that could attach). Also funny that, for example, you visit the Moxes and no one bats an eye there if their talented BD editor left the city.
I only see the argument of "it's a personal story!" when trying to deflect the criticism that Night City doesn't react to anything V does. But even for a personal story, it falls short.
All games are not perfect on day one that´s the way of life.
Expecting to play games in 2020 on 7 year old tec well like bringing a letter opener to the fight.
Cyberpunk is true to its genre and i´m sure there are not many of you that have played cyberpunk at all.
The shit storm that´s ongoing on social media is terrible to see and is driven of the greed to get as many view´s the can on bad mouthing all the can. We got that from Trump that bad view´s are still view´s and there of can be made to profit..
Now that´s of my back sorry if its pissing some one of not meant to be.
Cyberpunk 2077 is for me a good game it´s the first step in to the world for CDPR and i for one am happy it came out when it did and that show´s us how limited those ps4 x box and all that is mass made junk sure its good for what its made.
Funny considering in the main quest you're anything but an edgerunner. You're special for your Keanu disease instead of being a low-life trying to climb up (with all the cons and pros that could attach). Also funny that, for example, you visit the Moxes and no one bats en eye there if their talented BD editor left the city.
I only see the argument of "it's a personal story!" when trying to deflect the criticism that Night City doesn't react to anything V does. But even for a personal story, it falls short.
there's other editors. You are pretty special though, but I think the video game genre requires you to be more than nothing. Look, its a game it has limitations, its not real, but the reality is, most of the things V does, only effects certain people's lives and even then the city goes on. But some things are happening. Anna that cop you could choose not to kill in lockdown? Well I found the body of one of cops who betrayed her and a shard with their convo. The dead actually get phrases at the cemetery, I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a lot more effects from some of the choices out there.
uh the ones they show do have effects, if you choose to pay Royce, or reveal the tracer militech attacks, maelstrom team up with you Meredith dies, (no one night fling)Royce is at the club in the final chapter. Or you can give them the bad credit, gilshrist dies you fight maelstrom and Royce in a giant robot. You can free brick and he helps you in the club. You can kill Royce for pulling a gun on you. VDB you can side with netwatch, they raid and kill the vdbs, you can side with vdbs then kill them yourself, you can walk away and leave em be.. These are actually examples of decisions you make that effect the game world.
This is a fair point. I think the Maelstrom quest is well executed overall. This is why I said most of the side-quests, parts of the main narrative and some of the gigs deserve praise in this game.
I then play through some of these gigs and get the following gameplay loop. Go to map marker -> call -> text message info dump -> perform task -> call -> gig closed. The opening part of this process has no engagement. The task could be to assassinate a person, steal an object, plant a device, whatever. In every single one of these quests it still fails to feel like a different experience because there is no depth. The only part with depth is the lore and backstory you collect via the intro, shards and messages on hacked computers.
Compare this to, say, Raymond Chandler Evening. The gig involving Pepe and his wife Cynthia. You start this quest by entering the El Coyote Cojo bar. Two guys are hassling a customer. You intervene, blows are exchanged and those two "problems" end up put in their place. You then have a short conversation with the customer and he thanks you for helping him out. From here you sit at the bar, get offered a drink and discuss the problem Pepe is having with his wife. He suspects she is unfaithful. You then follow her and realize she isn't unfaithful at all. She is having work done at a Ripper (there are more detes but they're not necessary to make the point). The quest ends with a call to Pepe after exiting the building with the Ripperdoc and Cynthia.
After this quest ends, at least for me, I got a call from Cynthia later, out of the blue, thanking me for helping resolve her dispute with her husband Pepe. Later, out of the blue again, I get a call from Pepe thanking me.
Notice anything different between this and most of the other gigs? Yeah, the game tries to engage me with the NPC's and the world. This quest isn't even particularly complex or involved. Yet, the moment I played through it after spend time cruising through gigs, crimes in progress, organized crime and cyberpsychos in my playthrough I was immediately impressed. I was like, "Woah, a quest where I actually interact with the NPC's in some way?".
I thought to myself, "Hmm, this is what I was expecting for all of the quest content.". Instead the game is like... Jekyll and Hyde. Some of the content tries to achieve this engagement. It presents choices to the player, consequences for those choices (at a local or global level), provides a reason for playing through it beyond more exp/loot and a tiny slice of backstory/lore. The rest doesn't try to do any of it.
I can cite similar examples all throughout the game with this level of contrast across them. A magnificent world in scope. Yet, it has all this bullshit garbage in it everywhere. A loot system with some really cool items like Skippy. Right next to it is uninteresting, generic clones with tiny little incremental differences. A crafting system presenting meaningful and interesting ways to build or upgrade items on one hand. On the other missing, extremely basic QoL features or wasted space. Progression with a lot of quantity but very little quality. Combat screaming anything but, "RPG first and foremost.". The police crime/wanted system... Good content with lackluster filler right beside it. This contrast is freaking everywhere.
You have features they touted as being important, involved and with far reaching consequences. In some cases this is there. In others.... nope. It's as if certain mechanics and game systems were done with quality and care and others were done to slap on a marketing sheet.
Would I go so far as to say CDPR deliberately "lied" about all of this? No, I wouldn't. Do I think, in some instances, they said they would help me move a couch, came over, helped move it an inch then bailed and when challenged responded with, "Well, I did help you move it."? Yeah, I definitely do.
They could have made this game a little smaller in scope and actually fleshed out what was there and made more stuff like Raymond Chandler Evening, the Panam questline, the Judy line, the car racing with Claire. Instead they populated the world with so much junk in a way where the player has to go out of their way to find the gems.
same... the game has flaws...
but for its still the best game of last year... and depending how Pathfinder 2 and Baldursgate 3 will be... best game of this year
there's other editors. You are pretty special though, but I think the video game genre requires you to be more than nothing. Look, its a game it has limitations, its not real, but the reality is, most of the things V does, only effects certain people's lives and even then the city goes on. But some things are happening. Anna that cop you could choose not to kill in lockdown? Well I found the body of one of cops who betrayed her and a shard with their convo. The dead actually get phrases at the cemetery, I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a lot more effects from some of the choices out there.
Plenty of characters (and emails) say she's an amazing editor, not just "another" editor like you're trying to imply. So I'd expect, at least, different comments from the Moxes after losing an important source of income (don't take my words, but the game's words as this was said by two NPCs in Act 2 as well).
You're special, do important gigs and yet, there's barely any reflection of it in the city. You can kill off the heads of a band and... nothing happens. It falls flat, like the main quest and side gigs are from different games.
This is a fair point. I think the Maelstrom quest is well executed overall. This is why I said most of the side-quests, parts of the main narrative and some of the gigs deserve praise in this game.
I then play through some of these gigs and get the following gameplay loop. Go to map marker -> call -> text message info dump -> perform task -> call -> gig closed. The opening part of this process has no engagement. The task could be to assassinate a person, steal an object, plant a device, whatever. In every single one of these quests it still fails to feel like a different experience because there is no depth. The only part with depth is the lore and backstory you collect via the intro, shards and messages on hacked computers.
Compare this to, say, Raymond Chandler Evening. The gig involving Pepe and his wife Cynthia. You start this quest by entering the El Coyote Cojo bar. Two guys are hassling a customer. You intervene, blows are exchanged and those two "problems" end up put in their place. You then have a short conversation with the customer and he thanks you for helping him out. From here you sit at the bar, get offered a drink and discuss the problem Pepe is having with his wife. He suspects she is unfaithful. You then follow her and realize she isn't unfaithful at all. She is having work done at a Ripper (there are more detes but they're not necessary to make the point). The quest ends with a call to Pepe after exiting the building with the Ripperdoc and Cynthia.
After this quest ends, at least for me, I got a call from Cynthia later, out of the blue, thanking me for helping resolve her dispute with her husband Pepe. Later, out of the blue again, I get a call from Pepe thanking me.
Notice anything different between this and most of the other gigs? Yeah, the game tries to engage me with the NPC's and the world. This quest isn't even particularly complex or involved. Yet, the moment I played through it after spend time cruising through gigs, crimes in progress, organized crime and cyberpsychos in my playthrough I was immediately impressed. I was like, "Woah, a quest where I actually interact with the NPC's in some way?".
I thought to myself, "Hmm, this is what I was expecting for all of the quest content.". Instead the game is like... Jekyll and Hyde. Some of the content tries to achieve this engagement. It presents choices to the player, consequences for those choices (at a local or global level), provides a reason for playing through it beyond more exp/loot and a tiny slice of backstory/lore. The rest doesn't try to do any of it.
I can cite similar examples all throughout the game with this level of contrast across them. A magnificent world in scope. Yet, it has all this bullshit garbage in it everywhere. A loot system with some really cool items like Skippy. Right next to it is uninteresting, generic clones with tiny little incremental differences. A crafting system presenting meaningful and interesting ways to build or upgrade items on one hand. On the other missing, extremely basic QoL features or wasted space. Progression with a lot of quantity but very little quality. Combat screaming anything but, "RPG first and foremost.". The police crime/wanted system... Good content with lackluster filler right beside it. This contrast is freaking everywhere.
You have features they touted as being important, involved and with far reaching consequences. In some cases this is there. In others.... nope. It's as if certain mechanics and game systems were done with quality and care and others were done to slap on a marketing sheet.
Would I go so far as to say CDPR deliberately "lied" about all of this? No, I wouldn't. Do I think, in some instances, they said they would help me move a couch, came over, helped move it an inch then bailed and when challenged responded with, "Well, I did help you move it."? Yeah, I definitely do.
They could have made this game a little smaller in scope and actually fleshed out what was there and made more stuff like Raymond Chandler Evening, the Panam questline, the Judy line, the car racing with Claire. Instead they populated the world with so much junk in a way where the player has to go out of their way to find the gems.
yeah, there is big differences in engagement with the quests, but thats normal, you are a merc, sometimes a gig is just a simple job for eddies, some times it goes a little farther.
the crafting system and the shopping system could have used a bit more polish, there are a lot of things they should fix, and a lot they MUST fix. But the game, the overall, for me it was really good. I might even do some creative stuff related to it.
As far as the cyberpsychos, some of them had pretty interesting stories even though its generally told through shards and bodies.
Plenty of characters (and emails) say she's an amazing editor, not just "another" editor like you're trying to imply. So I'd expect, at least, different comments from the Moxes after losing an important source of income (don't take my words, but the game's words as this was said by two NPCs in Act 2 as well).
You're special, do important gigs and yet, there's barely any reflection of it in the city. You can kill off the heads of a band and... nothing happens. It falls flat, like the main quest and side gigs are from different games.
Yes, extremely talented people leave jobs every day, and yet business still goes on. The boss seemed annoyed by her anyhow. I'm not saying none of the moxes were effected, but why would they tell you about it? are you sure there is no convo's that can be heard after certain time passes? The aledecados talk about your relationship, and you get some different open world interactions after you get cool with them. I had different options for Gary the prophet, and had a showdown with them vs scavs and the camp had different comments, eventually greeting you. There might be effects of the Judy relationship that you missed.
The time between the montage and the Heist is about 2 days (yes you can spend more time than that, but looking at the narrative of the main story, 2 days is about the max).
You are then dead and recovering for 2-3 weeks (various evidences, including direct comments from Wilson and the timeframe of Evelyn's story).
Then you have 2 weeks after that. (The main quest occupies about 1 of those weeks, but the game really doesn't track this time well at all.)
Funny considering in the main quest you're anything but an edgerunner. You're special for your Keanu disease instead of being a low-life trying to climb up (with all the cons and pros that could attach). Also funny that, for example, you visit the Moxes and no one bats an eye there if their talented BD editor left the city.
V is an edgerunner, just not an important one. This changes as you progress through the story.
You can also only "go back" to the Moxes after taking Judy away if you "rewind" time, that is go back before the Nocturne quest after doing an ending.
Otherwise she is still going to work, still seeing her friends and living her life (there is a game flaw here where the narrative conflicts her presence in her apartment). There is even a specific conversation with Judy that points out that people have noticed a change in her and other elements where it is clear she doesn't just vanish from Lizzies and the Moxes.
