Why is Novigrad so empty?

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There is no way I would use the word "empty" to describe any of the areas in this game, especially Novigrad. Please tell me a game that better accomplishes what you want.
 
Are you frikkin serious? Skyrim's biggest city (Solitude) has only 15 homes with give or take 50 NPCs living in them. Because of that I never could get fully immersed in Skyrim. Everything felt small, claustrophobic even. Even Oxenfurt is bigger than Solitude. Novigrad is wayyyyyyyy bigger. It has 5000 houses (or more?) and countless of NPCs, each having his/her own daily routine.

Sure, you can't have conversations with every single NPC in Novigrad, but what do you expect with so many NPCs? It's not like you're having a conversation with every passing person on the street in real life. Most people in real life would just ignore you if you'd try to approach them, so NPCs doing the same thing in TW3 really doesn't bother me at all.


One thing I would like to see is the option to ask NPCs for directions. I often get lost in Novigrad and I had trouble finding a swordsmith in Novigrad for the longest time, so it would have been awesome if you could ask directions to a specific place to NPCs. NPCs could then either tell you how to get there or maybe some of the friendlier NPCs would even walk you there. That would be awesome.

Yeah and you can go in all of those houses and interact with most of those NPCs, and those NPCs actually do different things instead of the same loop over and over again every 15 secs like in W3. Also in W3 you cant go in any of those houses, Just like 3 in the whole city.

Ill take 15 houses that you can go in all of them than just have like 50 houses that are just widow dressing because they are all locked. Not sure how W3 is more immersive . At least in Skyrim you can break into locked doors.

You said it yourself, sure Novigrad has 5000 houses and 4990 of them are locked. LOL

Quality over quantity is always better on RPGs for me at least.
Give me a city of 50 like in skyrim that feels like a real city you can go on all of the houses and interact with everyone, than a city that is 500 you cant go in any of the houses but like 2 and all of the people in the city say like one line and don't react to what you do that much.

that one town you go into is super annoying where every 15 secs that kid is singing that stupid song about the emperor and the father tells the kid to stop it.

I could see if that loop was once a day but its EVERY 15 SECONDS. Skyrim doesnt have stuff like that.
 
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This is a joke thread, right? Name a better city that feels more alive in a videogame. I can't think of one.

Already named one, the cities in skyrim, you can even say the big cities in morrow wind at all.

You cant interact with the huge cities in W3 but you can in the ES series. You can go in every single house in skyrim or morrowind, you cant go in almost every house in Witcher 3

The NPCs in Witcher feel like generic drones they actually feel like living people in the ES games
 
When they said 5000 doors to open, may be they did not mean 5000 doors = 5000 houses. Some of them are doors inside of 1 home. :)
 
Do not underestimate the work for decorating a house, especially if you want meaningful decoration, which tells a small story - who lives here, and so on. CDPR obviously did not want 'standard decorations', because if you have seen one, you have seen them all.
So I think locked doors mean that the house is empty inside. And with a good reason: They have spent their money and time in better ways. Also - would Geralt to try to enter every house just for being nosy?
What I do not like - not only in Novigrad but everywhere - are the often dumb NPC reactions if you try to talk to them. This probably is also a matter of time and cost (they already have a huge amount of spoken responses), but some of the non replies are just annoying. This could have been done better, but it is also a matter of opinion.
The many NPCs in Novigrad and other places look stunning, but in the end most of them are only decoration. They have often meaningful dialogs between themselves, which is really well done, even if sometimes a bit repeating. But the answers are not, sadly. They should a a bit more meaningful sentences, even if they have nothing to say from the script.
 

luc0s

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Yeah and you can go in all of those houses and interact with most of those NPCs, and those NPCs actually do different things instead of the same loop over and over again every 15 secs like in W3. Also in W3 you cant go in any of those houses, Just like 3 in the whole city.

Ill take 15 houses that you can go in all of them than just have like 50 houses that are just widow dressing because they are all locked. Not sure how W3 is more immersive . At least in Skyrim you can break into locked doors.

You said it yourself, sure Novigrad has 5000 houses and 4990 of them are locked. LOL

Quality over quantity is always better on RPGs for me at least.
Give me a city of 50 like in skyrim that feels like a real city you can go on all of the houses and interact with everyone, than a city that is 500 you cant go in any of the houses but like 2 and all of the people in the city say like one line and don't react to what you do that much.

that one town you go into is super annoying where every 15 secs that kid is singing that stupid song about the emperor and the father tells the kid to stop it.

I could see if that loop was once a day but its EVERY 15 SECONDS. Skyrim doesnt have stuff like that.

There are way more than 3 houses you can enter in Novigrad. You clearly haven't explored enough yet. There are at the very least 20 houses you can enter in Novigrad. That's already 5 more than any city in Skyrim. There's probably even more than 20 houses you can enter in Novigrad, but I either forgot or haven't found them yet.

Besides, who randomly goes into other people's houses anyway? How does that add to realism or immersion? Do you just walk into everyone's house in real-life too?

As for the NPC cycles, with literally hundreds of NPCs in the city you're bound to have some that indeed don't do a whole lot, but none of them go through the same cycle every 15 seconds, that's just nonsense. All of them go to bed when nightfall comes, guards will patrol the street during nightfall. Some thieves and bandits snoop around during nightfall that aren't there during the day. And most NPCs actually do things you expect NPCs to do, such as carrying goods from one place to another, walk from their home to a shop and back, or visit the local pub.

Sure, in Skyrim you can break into locked doors. In the witcher you can't, because Geralt isn't a thief, he's a witcher. Breaking into houses would not make any sense in The Witcher, unless it's part of a quest.

Quality over quantity indeed. But sometimes quantity adds to the quality. This is most certainly the case in The Witcher 3. None of the cities in Skyrim actually felt like cities. The lore of Skyrim and the actual world of Skyrim didn't add up, which completely broke immersion for me. Solitude is supposed to be a giant trading metropolis according to the lore. In reality it's a very tiny place with only 20 houses give or take and a handful of NPCs. I was never convinced Solitude was the big city as described in the lore. Novigrad does feel like a big city, very much so. It's exactly as described in the lore. Same goes for Oxenfurt (though I expected Oxenfurt to be a bit bigger, but it's still leaps and bounds above any city in Skyrim).

And you're saying Skyrim doesn't have annoying characters that say the same shit every 15 seconds? Are you serious? The NPCs in Skyrim repeat their lines so insanely often than some of those lines have become memes!

"I used to be an adventurer like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee!" - every single guard ever in Skyrim.

"Do you visit the cloud district often? Oh, what am I saying, ofcourse you don't." - Nazeem every single time you walk past him.

"Who are you looking at? I'm not afraid of you! Even if you are my elder!" - Brave every single time you walk past her.

I didn't even have to look up any of these lines, I know them all from the top of my head because I've heard them so insanely often in the +/- 170 hours I've spend in Skyrim.

You clearly haven't played Skyrim in a while and you're looking at your memories of the game through rose-colored glasses. All the little "flaws" The Witcher 3 suffers from, Skyrim suffers from as well and in many cases it's even worse in Skyrim.

The Witcher 3 has more quantity AND better quality than Skyrim.
 
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I'm not gonna lie I've only just gone to oxenfurt , level 8, no quests, only baron and was a bit disappointed that there was npcs to interact with, but I don't mind games amazing and I'm sure there's some quests there to make up for it later, there us one by the docks had couple lines
 
Hi, Novigrad's design is fantastic, huge city with so many details and attention put into building something realistic. On the other hand, most people have nothing to say, most vendors have nothing to sell, and most doors are closed. In the end, what could have been a game inside the game is just an empty shell, a beautiful one, but an empty one. My wish would be a "Living Novigrad" DLC, a DLC really giving life to this city that deserves so much more. But will this happen? I have great doubts!
Hmm, have you tried walking around? I've bumped into quite a few people with interesting side quests, there are many boards placed around the city with quests,many with lovely in depth cut scenes. Also try walking in houses, you will see people actually living their lives and going about their daily business, some will talk. Just randomly bump into people and they will have something to say. But you need to walk everywhere and look around, people are everywhere, its quite amazing how lively and alive the city is.
 
The number of openable doors is something like 200. Not 5000. There's probably that many buildings though.

And in all honesty, in my personal opinion, it's kinda more lore friendly if people are 'merchant' or 'dockworker'. Geralt doesn't know everyone's names, but he can identify their occupation by their code of dress. And opening every door? I think it's a bit suss you can enter buildings Geralt wouldn't enter, but it's pretty cool there's just under 200 buildings that you can. I actually liked that part of the tutorial in tw2 where you try to enter some NPC house and the peasants scream at you to go away -- I thought that meant I wouldn't be able to walk into someone's place without their permission or get yelled at for trying. Turns out it was just for that tutorial, though, but it was pretty neat.

Comparing the Skyrim to Witcher 3 -- I feel like since you had the opportunity to role play as a thief/assassin, breaking into practically every person's house is somewhat necessary. But as a witcher? Maybe on the level that some big burly witchman has just walked into your house and is now taking all your bread and dwarven spirit and you're too intimidated to even react, sure. But even that's pushing it.

Obviously, you would disagree, since you look for something else in the game, so naturally you're expecting something else out of this game. That's fine -- I hope you stumble on more doors to open and quirky things to do in Novigrad while you're there. I was pleasantly surprised by the whole Novigrad experience, so I hope it improved for you.
 
I have to say i understand the OP.

Have to disagree. Novigrad had tons of content, more densely packed than any other area. They could have packed it more but this game is long enough. Very surprising reaction; can you point to another RPG that had more content in a city than Novigrad (taking account of voiceacting, texture quality, and loading screens)?
Concerning quest content i might agree but on your last question, well, not a RPG but - take a look at Assassin's Creed Unity. That is what i call a living City.

Dunno if the OP is playing the same game as I'm playing, Novigrad is the best city I've ever witnessed in any game. I've never seen a more active city.

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Skyrim has a better living and breathing world than W3.
LOL
What OP imo means with that is that either it is not as big at Skyrim you can discover any place and it simply gives a feeling that everything is unique. (I know it's not always but dunno - it's the feeling that counts)

Skyrim does have a better living world though. You can enter every building and talk to pretty much NPC. Nearly every NPC has their own name and life unlike in W3 where most NPCs are just "merchant" or "peasant" and do nothing but wander around a bit. Oblivion had an even better living world with very detailed AI. Skyrim and Oblivion also have far more locations like dungeons and stuff. The wilderness is a lot more full of stuff.

That said though W3 is the better game than Skyrim overall. It's quests and main story are far better than Skyrim's.
I'd doubt if Skyrim has rly far more locations, yet most of the Skyrim locations are more valuable when it gets to loot, but that's another story. Yet i agree on the better quests.

Agreed! Just explore the place you could encounter some quest and especially the sewers. Also there are 2 whorehouse, 2 barber shop and so far i found 5 inn shop in that area. There is also some random encounter like fighting bandits.

Comparing this to Skyrim is beyond my comprehension, :huh: Novigard really felt like a real city. :victory:

If you gonna compared Novigard why not compare it to Oblivion. Skyrim city is quite smaller than Oblivion if i remember.

Or better Assassin Creed Series! Assassin Creed really give us a city feeling.
+1 Well i agree Novigard feels like a City. But beside qthe Quest driven NPCs not like a living one.

Sure, you can't have conversations with every single NPC in Novigrad, but what do you expect with so many NPCs? It's not like you're having a conversation with every passing person on the street in real life. Most people in real life would just ignore you if you'd try to approach them, so NPCs doing the same thing in TW3 really doesn't bother me at all.

One thing I would like to see is the option to ask NPCs for directions. I often get lost in Novigrad and I had trouble finding a swordsmith in Novigrad for the longest time, so it would have been awesome if you could ask directions to a specific place to NPCs. NPCs could then either tell you how to get there or maybe some of the friendlier NPCs would even walk you there. That would be awesome.
It's not that much of talking to everyone or enter any house but on differences. The rly best example i can give is with Assassin's Creed Unity. Just generally compare Novigrad with Oxford, or nearly any village with another one. It all feels the same (except quest driven places). Well there was one time a mob when you visited the city first but then .... many complain - still all do daily work. Where are the ppl going to church, doing .... no it would be a long list. What would already kind of make me happy is having npcs really doing and saying different stuff and taking into account different areas in the city.
So what do you have at AC Unity? Start of: Sounds! You can tell the city is alive by simpy hearing into it. You hear massive ppl taking on the streets, sounds of birds, horses, estimated and unestimated creaks, ....... it's like you close your eyes, you imagine yourself being there, you open your eyes you see it like imagined (except the part you can still tell it's a digital created world). Visually: well too much to explain you see mobs at places you'd expect, you see totally different streets, people, you can tell just by the look of the people or the things they say in which district you are, you see flowers, you see cafe-bars you see .... I am not much a talker so I can't really describe it - it's amazing.

Another example (yet, not of Unity): one of my family went to New York and showed me pictures of some places and (especially for churches as they are the most impressive and best chance of still beeing there but also few other buildings) everything they showed was exactly like I faced it in the game (except the people, and a framework as they were restoring). That for AC is known to build accurate details (visual as historical when it gets to story resp. the built in database), so I have no doubt when one day i'll travel there Paris would (to the parts where i expect it) look the same (especially after reading about academic historians and being amazed how they captured Paris). Don't get me wrong. The game itself is .... the story sucks, the gameplay didn't change and is boring as hell, the sidequests suck, well solving Mystery was one nice new part but still overall the game when it comes to "gaming" just sucks, still i don't regret getting it just cause of Paris how they made it alive.

Well sure TW3 is a fictional game but if I would image it for seconds to be real I doubt Novigrad would look the same.
I also know that i do talk about 1 city (yet, that is bigger than Novigrad) compared to the whole world of the witcher 3.

Novigrad is best realistic city in gaming ever.
Nope

True, the NPCs in Skyrim and Oblivion has names and schedules, like going to sleep and so on, and I agree that is great.. BUT it also limits the size of cities, take Imperial City in Oblivion, the arguable biggest town in Tamriel lt it has a underwhelming amount of NPC compared to Witcher 3. Sure W3 NPCs are just 'Townsman' but that means that there can be 20+ people in one towns square instead of 10 who maybe has a few unique lines. (Yes it's an older game, but the same holds true for Skyrim.)

You could call it quality vs quantity if you want, I think the W3 approach fits better into the world and sells the atmosphere of a huge city better with a lot more, but less talkative NPCs. Not everyone wants to talk to Geralt, why would you talk to some dude who walks up to you with two swords on his back, that seems dangerous! Plus he's a witcher, and people disdain them.
Agree on most parts. Well if that approach is rly the better one is to discuss. I totally agree on that talking thing. But that's not the only thing putting life into a city.

SpawnedLimit=XXX

in the user.settings file...

youre welcome
1. I did set this way up and still feel it's not rly "alive", now what? 2. So you take Quantity over Quality?

This is a joke thread, right? Name a better city that feels more alive in a videogame. I can't think of one.
Read my post and start guessing.

There are way more than 3 houses you can enter in Novigrad. You clearly haven't explored enough yet. There are at the very least 20 houses you can enter in Novigrad. That's already 5 more than any city in Skyrim. There's probably even more than 20 houses you can enter in Novigrad, but I either forgot or haven't found them yet.
No, wait, rly? 5 more houses? I'm amazed. Well - there are surely more than 20 houses you can enter, still of such a city it feels like taken the piss.

Besides, who randomly goes into other people's houses anyway? How does that add to realism or immersion? Do you just walk into everyone's house in real-life too?
You may not go into some stranger's house, but I'd guess you'd have way more shops, bars, government buildings, museums, cathedrals etc etc. you can freely enter.

As for the NPC cycles, with literally hundreds of NPCs in the city you're bound to have some that indeed don't do a whole lot, but none of them go through the same cycle every 15 seconds, that's just nonsense. All of them go to bed when nightfall comes, guards will patrol the street during nightfall. Some thieves and bandits snoop around during nightfall that aren't there during the day. And most NPCs actually do things you expect NPCs to do, such as carrying goods from one place to another, walk from their home to a shop and back, or visit the local pub.
That's all true. And comparing to Skyrim that would be ok. Still I say there could be more and I agree with OP to (what i think he wanted to) say: the city still feels not rly "alive".

Quality over quantity indeed. But sometimes quantity adds to the quality. This is most certainly the case in The Witcher 3. None of the cities in Skyrim actually felt like cities. The lore of Skyrim and the actual world of Skyrim didn't add up, which completely broke immersion for me. Solitude is supposed to be a giant trading metropolis according to the lore. In reality it's a very tiny place with only 20 houses give or take and a handful of NPCs. I was never convinced Solitude was the big city as described in the lore. Novigrad does feel like a big city, very much so. It's exactly as described in the lore. Same goes for Oxenfurt (though I expected Oxenfurt to be a bit bigger, but it's still leaps and bounds above any city in Skyrim).
I agree on that Skyrim's cities would have needed to be way bigger (i guess there is no talking about that, it rly sucks), still you compare quantity over quality on the houses this time. Tell me what's the point of having a whole city you can walk through if nearly any places look the same, you can count the actions NPCs are doing. Either it is big it tends to get boring. Just not the quest related places like theater or Dijkstra's bath.

And you're saying Skyrim doesn't have annoying characters that say the same shit every 15 seconds? Are you serious? The NPCs in Skyrim repeat their lines so insanely often than some of those lines have become memes!
So some individual figures tend to say the same thing and you compare that to the few sentences of a certain NPC type always says?

The Witcher 3 has more quantity AND better quality than Skyrim.
Quantity yes. Quality (not talking about the story) not. (especially if you think about release date)

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So what I want to say to sum it up: at no time I actually rly had the feeling of "beeing there", walking in a alive city. I just saw copied things there and there and wished there would be more to discover, more RPG behaviour of NPCs. Either it's a big city i can't say I am amazed at the city itself (just speaking of it - not few quest parts of the city or the game itself). So i kept my expectations to quest driven parts.
 
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Lemme just say that it's a minor complaint, the game has a lot of minor issues and this was one of them but overall it's one of the best games I've ever played and I played since the mid 80s.

The complaint for me about doors is that when a door in an RPG is locked, it usually means there is a key to be found or won somewhere. In this game there are probably 1000+ locked doors that do not have keys for them. In that case they should have made them non-interactable instead. That wouldn't trigger a desire to unearth a non-existent key for me.

Leave the interaction for locked doors that can be unlocked / blown apart / opened by others through quest.
 
Skyrim has a better living and breathing world than W3. That is what I was hoping for with W3, W3 is still a great game but skyrim IMO still has it beat in that regard. That being said W3 crushes skyrim when it comes to your choices mattering. In skyrim they really don't, but in W3 they can have a big or even small subitle effect. If only we could get Skyrims living breathing world and W3s choices that matter.

Not really.

Skyrim could not hold a candle to STALKER anyway... it had something resembling actual AI... now that is a living world. Not Skyrim.
As it is, I still need play more Witcher 3 to see its world. All of it. But character-wise it is great.
 
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