gabusan;n10625661 said:
Well said. I play moonlight sometimes and if this ability were removed I'd just delete the deck.
Well said. I play moonlight sometimes and if this ability were removed I'd just delete the deck.
Riven-Twain;n10622852 said:
It's pretty straightforward: The moonlight archetype wouldn't even exist if not for the wolves. Immune might not be sensible from a lore perspective, but from a gameplay perspective it's vital as it's a source of points moonlight (probably) isn't going to lose. Or at least not lose easily.
Everyone has mate, don't worry
I've played the Moonlight deck as my main deck in Ranked and Casual ever since Day 1 of the PTR before Midwinter still have fallen in that trap xDFor me they should be immune while in moonlight. Only reason to play them BEFORE you get a row under full moon is if you know your opponent has hazards (like facing Eredin or axemen) and those decks rarely have something that will make a difference when the werewolf is immune compared to when he isn't. At worst they might move him around with a drowner if he isn't.
ser2440;n10632041 said:Everyone has mate, don't worry
For me they should be immune while in moonlight. Only reason to play them BEFORE you get a row under full moon is if you know your opponent has hazards (like facing Eredin or axemen) and those decks rarely have something that will make a difference when the werewolf is immune compared to when he isn't. At worst they might move him around with a drowner if he isn't.
I'd agree with that change. Nothing wrong with gaining buffs under moonlight. Bit like the old promote mechanic.
iamthedave;n10630571 said:
I disagree on this. If you think about it werewolfs should actually be very targetable under moonlight. They get +2 power per turn. Thats the value of a redanian knight elect on a 14 power unit without a high setup cost. If you cant deal with the moonlight by using a weather you will lose to the werewolf anyway so why should it be immune expecially since the only thing this fights is reset and reset is not a powerful mechanic and an auto inlcude anyway so yeah theyll get scorched anyway.
I really would like them to be immune until the moonlight shows their true identity. Heck CDPR could even make them switch artworks from a human form with imunity to a werewolf form without it. A 14 power unit really doesnt need immunity a 7 power one though does. So overall the werewolf archetype really just stays the same. You still got your save play with an immune unit but you dont just get an auto win against decks that have to mainly play cards that interact with your opponent like alzurs thunder or Triss to get to the same tempo. And on top of that we get an insanely flavourful game element.
Pls CDPR do this <3
Tschjo;n10633001 said:
This would be true if moonlight was a full archetype. It currently isn't. The werewolf is really the only powerful card in the entire thing. Alphas are okay but not great, moonlight itself is decent but not world breaking. Also, Werewolf gives moonlight a turn 1 play if its going first that isn't just going to get killed, unless someone wants to use scorch.
Immune being necessary is far more a symptom of the overall weakness of the archetype than any inherent need for it. If they give moonlight some proper buffs and extra units, it can happily lose immune.
Come on, are we seriously discussing to nerf werewolf.
I seriously never even encounter this card and when i do i can either see him comming from miles away or deal with him easily...
And you shouldnt even look at it lorewise.
How makes a power 20 nekker ever sense lorewise.
I seriously never even encounter this card and when i do i can either see him comming from miles away or deal with him easily...
And you shouldnt even look at it lorewise.
How makes a power 20 nekker ever sense lorewise.
TheEpicWhale;n10634061 said:
This should be obvious: nekkers' diet is 90% Weetabix and spinach.
iamthedave;n10633141 said:
This is just untrue. Siren is an insanely powerful card and it can play another extremely powerful card in moonlight. Its an engine that gives you +2 per turn just like redanian knight elect but cannot be removed directly. You need to clear it with a hazard and even if you do that the siren still leaves a 6 power body on the field. This is great.
I dont see how you call this a nerf i explained why the immunity on the 14 power unit just doesnt matter. It has no effect on the gameplay it just randomly blanks cards rarely without a reason to do so. This is the equivalent to a monster unit having 20 armor there is no reason for it to have that
Tschjo;n10636421 said:
Siren is not insanely powerful and neither is moonlight. Don't use hyperbole please. Siren is exactly as powerful as Wild Hunt Hound, with the exception that moonlight is slightly more flexible in that it can be an aggressive play or a boon, but the deck built around it is always one or the other. Also if the Moonlight gets removed you don't have a 6 str unit because it will normally be removed immediately and replaced with dot weather. In fact, in this instance she is slightly worse than the WH hound, since replacing moonlight removes the card you played with her and starts dealing damage, whereas clear skies-ing frost does no actual damage to the hound. And there are more ways to get frost on the board than there are moonlight.
Moonlight is a weak archetype, and the immune wolves give it a degree of protection on pretty much its only - current - powerful bronze.
iamthedave;n10636531 said:
This again is flawed. Wild Hunt Hound cant remove your opponents interaction while moonlight can. You can stack moonlight on all your rows to gain +4 +6 savely while if your opponent plays weather on one row you can just stack that row to never lose more points than 2 a turn. Moonlight doesnt run out of points to increase your tempo with unlike weather eventually does since all units on the row die at some point while units under moonlight cant grow so large they stop getting buffed. Mages can remove weather but not moonlight. If you remove moonlight without a tutor thats how the 4 not 6 sorry on that one power body stays so if you went second your opponent cannot remove monlight like that since you could just pass to gain CA. There are anti weather cards like Redanian Knight or An Craite Greatsword which can punish you for weather usage. Doesnt exist for moonlight.
The fact you can also flex your moonlight to deal 2 dmg so you just randomly cant be beaten by the best TrissButt decks is also a great bonus. Or that you can get moonlight late and it still has value by blood mooning is so much better Wild Hunt Hound in fact the hound doesnt even compare.
Now back to my original point. A 14 power unit does not need immune even if it gets hit by a thunder its still at 5 and will gain +2 from moonlight again. There is no targeting that it has to fear at 14 power so the immunity doesnt make sense. Well sure reset it could fear but reset is designed to interact with buffed units so reset is the answer that should be allowed to be used for exactly cards like werewolf thats the point of reset.
Its like having 20 armor on it its random doesnt fit the gameplay archetype or lore. Having it be 7 with immune then loosing it at 14 however does check all those boxes. As long as werewolf only has 7 power it can be removed by thunder and various other cards so it has to fear those which means immune cancels this concern which is good. It also gives the archetype a save early play which is important for all archetypes and it also fits lorewise since you cant tell your fellow neighbour is a werewolf so you wouldnt pitchfork him during the day but once the moonlight comes out boom you see him as a wolf and now you would want to hit him with all you got.
There is no reason for this not to change like that. Werewolf will still be good just like moonlight. Only thing this archetype needs is some good silvers and golds to go with its already 3 very strong bronzes.
Tschjo;n10636771 said:
What do you mean 'mages can remove weather but not moonlight'? You do know they can just overwrite it with their own weather, yes?
Weather decks use movement to prevent stacking. You know this. The main dedicated weather decks (ish) are axemen and WH frost, both of which have movement a-plenty. The other way around it is to deploy your spy into weather. Not that many rounds go so long that you'll eat through a 13 point unit.
Nobody plays weather without tutors. That is simply not a thing that happens in GWENT unless someone got bricked on the mulligan, or if its silver/gold weather.
The mechanical point is that moonlight is a relatively weak deck that needs those 14 point bronzes or else it might as well not exist. That's why they're immune and don't lose it.
Your last point makes no sense. The universe of Witcher is a horrible, horrible, violent and racist one. You're far more likely to get pitchforked as regular human than as a non-human. There's at least a lot less of you, and you often have abilities to take care of yourself. I mean, humans created Witchers because they COULDN'T deal with werewolves. If you want it to be lore-friendly it should get moonlight and become 'only a witcher may hurt this creature, everything non-witcher gets eaten. Horribly.'
A mage can remove ONE moonlight not all. You dont even lose tempo when he does that. With weather clear sky can remove up to 3 weather and can even give all the points back that the weather removed. You can spam all your moonlights and your opponent cannot remove them all at once. So your engine is protected and even protects itself cause you can remove the weather with another moonlight again.
These cards are strong golds and silvers are weak.
Cool that they do moonlight is still better cause all you need to play is the tutors and the moonlight nothing else no movement needed.
And it GETS those 14 point bronzes always 100% with the immunity change. But what it should not have is rek the decks that NEED to deal points of damage to your units via targeted spells to get even close to 14 points of tempo. Do you see the problem here? You are arguing for one side of the coin ignoring that there is a second just as valid iside to it.
So why are there human cities if humans cant deal with werewolves? How were they even able to create wichers in the first place if werewolfes could just walk over a 10000 man army no problem? They couldnt deal with them cause they dont know how is a werewolf and who isnt. And you are defnitly more likely to get pitchforked if you are an outsider than an insider. Thats the whole point of you know living in a city/tribe so you are protecting the people in it and are protected agianst the ones out of it.
These cards are strong golds and silvers are weak.
Cool that they do moonlight is still better cause all you need to play is the tutors and the moonlight nothing else no movement needed.
And it GETS those 14 point bronzes always 100% with the immunity change. But what it should not have is rek the decks that NEED to deal points of damage to your units via targeted spells to get even close to 14 points of tempo. Do you see the problem here? You are arguing for one side of the coin ignoring that there is a second just as valid iside to it.
So why are there human cities if humans cant deal with werewolves? How were they even able to create wichers in the first place if werewolfes could just walk over a 10000 man army no problem? They couldnt deal with them cause they dont know how is a werewolf and who isnt. And you are defnitly more likely to get pitchforked if you are an outsider than an insider. Thats the whole point of you know living in a city/tribe so you are protecting the people in it and are protected agianst the ones out of it.
Tschjo;n10637201 said:
Because werewolves are really really rare? Like... really rare? And most don't want to hurt people, and go into seclusion. Humans in the Witcher universe were in fact just getting killed and eaten by everything until they invented Witchers. It's literally what Witchers were for, but they were so good at it that they made a lot of stuff extinct, to the point that Witchers aren't really necessary anymore. Or people don't feel they are, at least.
As for getting value... you can shoot every other card in the deck that isn't immune? Which is all of the others? Alpha Werewolves are 10 pts of shooty, shooty health. More if moonlight procs them. So no, there isn't a second, equally valid side to it. You're saying 'I want to shoot the only good card in the archetype, no I don't want to shoot every other card in the archetype, that isn't good enough, I want to shoot this one particular card for some arcane reason known only to me.'
As someone who plays a moonlight deck, you run out of those precious moonlights very, very quickly. And without them the deck struggles to keep up, let alone get ahead. That's the issue. It isn't that moonlight is some powerful tool, it's necessary to even have a chance. 3 Sirens and a Nekurat does not for a lot of moonlight make, and if it does, you bricked your hand by running really low power tutor cards.
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The exact problem is that Moonlight doesn't have Silver and Gold Synergy, Blood Moon in particular.
Like dave said in the previous, page, it's not a full archetype. You can build a bronze core out of it but you need neutral/tech golds and silvers to support that, since no gold or silver currently synergizes with it aside from Nekurat. Even with all the Sirens and the Nekurat in hand, you have 2 Moonlights less than Frost decks have hazards (3 WH Hounds, Caranthir, White Frost is 6 rows of Frost).
And if your Full Moon is cleared/swapped with hazards, you are even more lost than WH is without Frost. Fancy those 7 STR bodies with nothing to do with them?
Like dave said in the previous, page, it's not a full archetype. You can build a bronze core out of it but you need neutral/tech golds and silvers to support that, since no gold or silver currently synergizes with it aside from Nekurat. Even with all the Sirens and the Nekurat in hand, you have 2 Moonlights less than Frost decks have hazards (3 WH Hounds, Caranthir, White Frost is 6 rows of Frost).
And if your Full Moon is cleared/swapped with hazards, you are even more lost than WH is without Frost. Fancy those 7 STR bodies with nothing to do with them?
ser2440;n10638281 said:The exact problem is that Moonlight doesn't have Silver and Gold Synergy, Blood Moon in particular.
Like dave said in the previous, page, it's not a full archetype. You can build a bronze core out of it but you need neutral/tech golds and silvers to support that, since no gold or silver currently synergizes with it aside from Nekurat. Even with all the Sirens and the Nekurat in hand, you have 2 Moonlights less than Frost decks have hazards (3 WH Hounds, Caranthir, White Frost is 6 rows of Frost).
And if your Full Moon is cleared/swapped with hazards, you are even more lost than WH is without Frost. Fancy those 7 STR bodies with nothing to do with them?
And Nekurat doesn't synergise, it's just a 4th enabler. No player has ever looked at their screen in horror and proclaimed: "Nekurat? NEKURAT??? NOOOOOOO!!!!!!! I AM UNDONE!!!!!!"
Tschjo;n10636421 said:
Siren is an insanely powerful card...lol. Now I've really heard it all.
Werewolf losing immune under moonlight does seem fair. Hes gets really beefy so he doesnt just get answered right away. A opponent will have to use a valuable card to get rid of the werewolf if he wants costing him a sliver or even a gold. I think counterplay is healthy in games,so werewolf losing immunity once he turn into a big unit seems fine, a opponent will have two use 2-3 bronzes of strong removal if he doesn't want to use a sliver or gold for the werewolf. But moonlight isnt a T1 deck maybe T2. So keeping immunity is still fine.
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