Why so much faith was put into Cyberpunk 2077 by gamers?

[lelxrv]

And here we are again.
It amaze me how some people can blame the customers and the community, for CDPR error and misleading.
If you want to know that was removed from the 2018 demo, You can search it online. It's like a missing list of 200+ items.

But I want to remeber you all, the most iconic thing said in the trailer: "The most believable city in modern RPGS..." (while showing V standing in the middle of a croud of NPC in the croswalk, suggesting that NPC was the focus).
And remember, we are not talking only about the look or achitecture of the city.
Now, there's anyone in this community that can back that statement up?

It's one of the baddest design AI of the century.
Police system is embarassing. Never seen a game handling that so bad.
I don't remeber a game i ever have played with a system like that.

What about immersion?
You can't interact with almost nothing in the city.
You can't sit down. You can't eat. You can't go to club and dance. Nothing.

We know, it's not a SIM game.
But this are mechanics that are present in almost the majority of open city games this day.
Are wrong all other game devs?
Or maybe, it's actually this game witch is lacking?

I get that You can like the game, but at least you should be honest

Considering how much nonsense is parroted about "promises" regarding CP77, it's not only on CDPR. Of course they cleverly hid behind "work in progress, subject to change" plate, but gamers were already out of control...

And I can understand "old" spectators, who followed the game since it's announcement in 2012-2013, where deep RPG system inspired by pnp was proclaimed (maybe at that time they aimed to make one, before smash success of Witcher 3). These people clearly didn't get what they expected... But after 2018 demo, it was fairly obvious it's going to be Witcher 3 with guns. Though at that time I expected a bit more from vehicular action and story branching...

 

[greeks]

Important reminder: CDPR's promises have expiration date.

 

[Notserious80]

Yaaay back too the old "does not represent final game" vs buuut they promised arguement. I can kinda see both sides. CDPR should not have announced and teased the game at all tbh. Doubt it would have sold that much if that happend tho so its a double edged sword. Have already said what i wanna say about it in multiple threads so wont drone on about it.

All ill say is i hope lessons are learned on both sides, hopefully ive learned mine atleast and i havent preordered a single game since (not that there have been alot of game released last year)

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

View attachment 11273713

Number 3 was missed with particular efficiency. Other than that, there are halfsies and kinda-sorta-but-not-really’s. And it definitely did not set any standards.

 

[Didacgomez]

Somebody should enlighten me of what they were expecting in 2012 from points 3 and 4, since Rtalsorian franchise was commatose (to don't say dead) and last version of cyberpunk was cyberpunk v3.0 (it was the canon of cp2020 not cpred) which didn't use Interlock system but Fuzion (that was designed for anime-like RPGs like Bubblegum Crisis tabletop RPG,and had perks in it but no classes as far as i remember).

 

[greeks]

I wonder... what do you call an act of making promises and then not keeping them?

"Not quite lying, reneging is more a sin of omission — failing to do what you said you would. The Latin negāre means "to deny," so by reneging on your word, you are denying someone whatever you promised them. In card games, you are said to renege if you play against the rules. To renege may be wrong, but it's not necessarily a punishable offense (unless you put that promise legally binding in writing). Still, it certainly doesn't make you look good!"

That... fits incredibly well withint he situation, don't you think?

Also:

Promise - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So "a promise" is a kind of... commitment. Hm...

 

[lelxrv]

Considering that everyone has their own understanding of what makes "advanced RPG mechanics" and "based on", you still can dance around if they kept the promise or not... People just took these broad statements and ran with them.

People should probably use "disappointing" instead of "lied/didn't keep their promise".

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Considering that everyone has their own understanding of what makes "advanced RPG mechanics" and "based on", you still can dance around if they kept the promise or not... People just took these broad statements and ran with them.

That kind of vagueness certainly wouldn’t ring favorably for their credibility, if it was intentional.

 

[GrimReaper801]

People should probably use "disappointing" instead of "lied/didn't keep their promise".

I think that's the gist of the issue here.

CP2077 came hot on the heels of a game considered by many to be the single best RPG released in the last decade. You'll be hard pressed to find a single "best RPGs" list that doesn't place TW3 very, very high on it's list. Most place it in the top three. The farther back the list goes, the lower TW3 gets in favor of timeless classics but I don't think I've ever seen it below # 10 and, frankly, losing a spot to classics such as Chrono Trigger or Planescape: Torment isn't bad. In fact, being up there with these classics says a lot about TW3.

Whether you played it or not, if you're a gamer, you have heard of TW3 and how good it is. There's no going around it. It made a huge splash and rightfully so, it is an incredibly well crafted game. It's flaws being offset massively by the things it did right.

Then there was CP2077. Announced and touted as the next best thing from that studio that gave you the current best thing. In a setting that, I personally believe, is far more interesting and far less exploited than TW3's high fantasy world. Yet, it wasn't the next best thing. In fact, most of what's in the game wasn't anything new. Some of it is exceptionally well crafted and generally speaking most of it is at least well done and well put together but not enough to make people forget about it's flaws the way TW3 did.

Leading to this feeling of disappointment for many. Sadly, for many, disappointment also seem to mean being "betrayed" or "lied" to. They seem to forget that every studio sells their game as the next best thing and, generally speaking, it rarely is. CDPR is just the latest to do this and it has hurt their reputation tremendously.

I don't think it's too late to build it back up though.

 

[lelxrv]

That kind of vagueness certainly wouldn’t ring favorably for their credibility, if it was intentional.

I don't even think it was intentional. I mean, even Witcher is an RPG for them. And for many overall. I personally disagree. I have a rather strict definition of RPGs, where even Planescape: Torment doesn't fit. Many games have RPG elements in them, but "pure" RPGs they are not. So their understanding of RPG might be really different from mine and other people, who felt that there's barely any RPG-ness in CP77.

 

[backtron]

For me it was development cost and sale price. Quick cross check with similarly budgeted projects and simple interpolation gave me the general idea what scope, complexity and positioning by CDPR to expect.

RDR2 540Mil
2077 317Mil
GTA5 265Mil
FO4 250Mil
COD:MW2 250Mil
SW:TOR 200Mil
JC3 <150Mil ?
W3 81 Mil
MGS V 80Mil
Borderlands 2 35Mil
Firewatch ~5Mil

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

I don't even think it was intentional. I mean, even Witcher is an RPG for them. And for many overall. I personally disagree. I have a rather strict definition of RPGs, where even Planescape: Torment doesn't fit. Many games have RPG elements in them, but "pure" RPGs they are not. So their understanding of RPG might be really different from mine and other people, who felt that there's barely any RPG-ness in CP77.

Yeah, well, I’ve heard notions that PST is something closer to an interactive novel or a JRPG than a…. ”pure(tm)” RPG. I do my fair share of hairsplitting on the topic of being an RPG, but not quite that much even if I see the point there.

There might be some merit to what you say about how CDPR views an RPG. There was a community QA where I asked about NPC interactions and response seemed dumbfounded; ”What else could you do but bumb into them?” (Paraphrase)

It’s kind of a wider spread thing too, I think. A designer on another ”notable” RPG dev couldn’t see any value in allowing a character to walk. And all in all, just about every ”mid-to-high profile” RPG in the market is designed the same indigent and vapid way.

That said, though, while I do not think CP2077 or Witchers 2&3 are too much of RPGs, I don’t want to believe CDPR has such a tubevision in this regard, that when they say ”advanced RPG mechanics based on the PnP”, they mean(t) not advanced at all by any concievable meter and ”based on” meaning merely the names of a handful of stats.

I’m still interested in what the game was about initially, and before the 2016 ”direction change”; when they had for example - as they said - cool(tm) ideas for wardrobe&style skill.

 

[Notserious80]

Yeah, well, I’ve heard notions that PST is something closer to an interactive novel or a JRPG than a…. ”pure(tm)” RPG. I do my fair share of hairsplitting on the topic of being an RPG, but not quite that much even if I see the point there.

There might be some merit to what you say about how CDPR views an RPG. There was a community QA where I asked about NPC interactions and response seemed dumbfounded; ”What else could you do but bumb into them?” (Paraphrase)

It’s kind of a wider spread thing too, I think. A designer on another ”notable” RPG dev couldn’t see any value in allowing a character to walk. And all in all, just about every ”mid-to-high profile” RPG in the market is designed the same indigent and vapid way.

That said, though, while I do not think CP2077 or Witchers 2&3 are too much of RPGs, I don’t want to believe CDPR has such a tubevision in this regard, that when they say ”advanced RPG mechanics based on the PnP”, they mean(t) not advanced at all by any concievable meter and ”based on” meaning merely the names of a handful of stats.

I’m still interested in what the game was about initially, and before the 2016 ”direction change”; when they had for example - as they said - cool(tm) ideas for wardrobe&style skill.

Yea i would love too se that too. Guessing they changed pretty much everything. Dont forget the 3d person cutsceens and so on that got scrapped in the last couple of years. Dont quite remember when that "gameplay" trailer was shown too journos and so on but it was pretty late into development. Feels like they changed up alot in the last couple of years...

 

[Didacgomez]

For me it was development cost and sale price. Quick cross check with similarly budgeted projects and simple interpolation gave me the general idea what scope, complexity and positioning by CDPR to expect.

RDR2 540Mil
2077 317Mil
GTA5 265Mil
FO4 250Mil
COD:MW2 250Mil
SW:TOR 200Mil
JC3 <150Mil ?
W3 81 Mil
MGS V 80Mil
Borderlands 2 35Mil
Firewatch ~5Mil

But then you were dissapointed by graphics/animations/sounds/voices-supported in i don´t know how many languages-/soundtrack ? Because its what eats development costs of videogames (and marketing costs of course). You can make reasonable ambitious games in terms of complexity of mechanics,depth of story and reactivity to player choices and a good amount of playing hours with much smaller budgets than 5 million

85kUSD for this remake, maybe counting the original one 150kUSD?

I’m still interested in what the game was about initially, and before the 2016 ”direction change”; when they had for example - as they said - cool(tm) ideas for wardrobe&style skill.

Were they not in pre-production before 2016? I guess just few people toying with Witcher 3 engine and ideas from playing pen and paper and reading books and watching movies, not much of what was actually possible in the engine/scripting side... 2013 teaser trailer actually seems pretty influenced by A.D. Police OVAs.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

But then you were dissapointed by graphics/animations/sounds/voices-supported in i don´t know how many languages-/soundtrack ? Because its what eats development costs of videogames (and marketing costs of course). You can make reasonable ambitious games in terms of complexity of mechanics,depth of story and reactivity to player choices and a good amount of playing hours with much smaller budgets than 5 million


85kUSD for this remake, maybe counting the original one 150kUSD?

I don't want to be a "killjoy", maybe this kind of game cost "nothing", but the number of players is as low as the cost of production
(at least, it don't aim a large audience).
SteamSharts - Geneforge 1 - Mutagen

 

[Didacgomez]

I don't want to be a "killjoy", maybe this kind of game cost "nothing", but the number of players is as low as the cost of production
(at least, it don't aim a large audience).
SteamSharts - Geneforge 1 - Mutagen

I know, I know... and the author knows it also. I purposelly picked a extreme case in the other side of graphics/sounds even for today standards... but the point is that what drives development costs is not as much as the scope/writing/mechanics as the visuals,sounds of the videogame.

 

[BigWezz69]

Important reminder: CDPR's promises have expiration date.





View attachment 11273713

Good to see they missed the majority of those "promises"

 

[tru3story]

What separated CP77 from the rest?

It's not even about the faith being put into it, but rather the lack of < fill the gap > of what you get in other games.
Why are you still here to care about it? You had expectations, at least partially met, correct? The lack of remains, but the part of it was fulfilled, possibly? Because, seriously, I don't see other reason why someone should stick around in order to keep getting "disappointed" (for the reasons they come up with in their mind, mainly).

So, in a few words - I have faith, yeah, but mostly I simply am picky and don't have much of choice.

 

[backtron]

But then you were dissapointed

TBH at no point was I disappointed in what I got for my money. In that regard my expectations were realistic and met. What made me a bit sad the game ending with so much potential left untapped. Wanted more of it. Seeing how much work was put in locations, world, mechanics but underutilized. Stuff like wall destruction mechanism. Someone had to too a lot of coding for that just to be used once. Many such things.

But yeah. If the question is what was my main source for setting expectations that is budget. Had no experience with witcher. Took the marketing material with a grain of salt. But budget is a solid, objective indicator.

 

[medion_no]

For me still is "the greatest thing ever". If only they had put more time and effort before or after the launch...
Things as simple as being able to tune or swap the vehicles with the alternative models that are already in the game or being able to change the hairstyle or the piercings after creating the character are not there and have not been added later for some strange incomprehensible reason. This game should be getting monthly updates and dlc that would sell like hot cakes.
I don't understand how CD Projeckt is handling it.