Will bullet resistance be a thing for melee characters? What do you guys think?

[Mk3rd]

Will bullet resistance be a thing for melee characters? What do you guys think?

After watching the teaser trailer, one of the 1st things I noticed is that the lady with the arm claws was somewhat resisting the bullets due to her alloyed skin. I was hoping that this might be a mechanic in the game because surely this game will be a mix of gunplay and melee(hack and slash?). Setting aside the additional armor bullet sponges, melee characters would have some kind of resistance and/or superior speed to dodge bullets for the lack of ranged weapons. The head would obviously be the least resistant for these types of characters. And the ranged characters should have low resistance against slash and bludgeoning for having distance and an arsenal of gadgets for defense as the advantage.

 

[Suhiira]

While it's more-or-less possible to be immune to pistol and smaller rifle-caliber bullets there are any number of types of ammunition that'll still work, something as simple as a shotgun shell HEAT round.

 

[Zagor-Te-Nay]

Well, that is a question here. Cyberpunk is known for it's lethality and unlikely ( and unwanted) there will be modern features like regen health. And doubtful CDPR will be imitating Ninja Gaiden for melee here.
And for any good TPS enemy AI should be relentless, dynamic and adaptive to player movement/actions.
Sooo...either: poor TPS+regular melee or regular TPS+ melee acting as more of a complement to gunplay.
If you're well protected( by armor/augments/obstacles), you can take one, maybe two guys with guns in melee...but try to clear out a whole room head on->suicide, no matter your skill.

 

[Sardukhar]

Couple things.

1. There aren't "melee" characters. There aren't classes. A guy firing a 20mm Barret-Arasaka can have just as good armour as a guy with a monowhip. The game is balanced around "realism", so what you can afford financially and sometimes mentally, is what you have. Melee in this game is a couple skills, not some kind of role.

2. A well-built character with crazy Reflexes, BOD, MA, Luck, excellent skills and really good gear, built-in and carried, could actually kill a roomful of guys with guns, if things went the attackers way and the targets weren't very good at their job. That said, unless that roomful of guys is packing pretty lightweight heat, it'd be pretty nuts to try.

 

[kanonite]

What Sarduakar said. Even a weedy Corporate character can wear Metal Gear. Sure it would be cumbersome and socially inappropriate, but it is doable.

 

[Sardukhar]

What Sarduakar said. Even a weedy Corporate character can wear Metal Gear. Sure it would be cumbersome and socially inappropriate, but it is doable.

Wait. What if the Metal Gear...has an iPhone charger?! Huh? And, like, a tie painted on? THAT sounds all corporate-y.

Corporates. Ugh.

 

[Mk3rd]

[No message]

 

[Mk3rd]

While it's more-or-less possible to be immune to pistol and smaller rifle-caliber bullets there are any number of types of ammunition that'll still work, something as simple as a shotgun shell HEAT round.

True. Stronger ballistic weapons and lasers would do the trick.

doubtful CDPR will be imitating Ninja Gaiden for melee here. And for any good TPS enemy AI should be relentless, dynamic and adaptive to player movement/actions. Sooo...either: poor TPS+regular melee or regular TPS+ melee acting as more of a complement to gunplay. If you're well protected( by armor/augments/obstacles), you can take one, maybe two guys with guns in melee...but try to clear out a whole room head on->suicide, no matter your skill.

Well the Witcher games were hack and slash'y rpgs and they had great and believable animations that made sense in it's own world. And though the only ranged weapons implemented there were bombs and a crossbow with little to no use, it did kinda feel like a potential TPS for a second w/out the slow-mo. If they took both of those mechanics as a base for CP2077's combat.. say.. slap in a variety of guns and animations in context with CP and for each weapon/class, put in a working crouch and cover system(ShadowofMordorUnchartedFallout4'ish..?I dunno)and do some balancing for single and multiplayer, It could really deliver a one of a kind experience. So yeah, TPS+ melee acting as more of a complement to gunplay.

 

[Suhiira]

No problem if you prefer melee, go for it.
Just don't expect the game mechanics to bend the laws of physics to support that sort of play style, some sort of health regen system, or ninja movie stuff.

While it's possible CP2077 may do one, or more, of those things if they do while the COD/anime fans may love it none of the Cyberpunk ones will.

 

[Mk3rd]

No problem if you prefer melee, go for it. Just don't expect the game mechanics to bend the laws of physics to support that sort of play style, some sort of health regen system, or ninja movie stuff.
While it's possible CP2077 may do one, or more, of those things if they do while the COD/anime fans may love it none of the Cybepunk ones will.

Well there was a thread about Martial Arts being in play for CP2077. So that got me curious, and I hope it will be implemented if they're THAT ambitious. Cyberpunk is not all about guns, you know. There will be implants, batons and monowhips. It doesn't have to bend the laws of physics to have a decent melee. Check Mad Max or MGSV e.g. w/out the slow-mo. Brutal and believable animations. And I'm not all about health regen. It doesn't make sense to me. Health packs and resistance, sure. Maybe a repair shop for damaged implants and augments.

 

[Suhiira]

It absolutely doesn't have to bend the laws of physics to have good melee, I'd argue that not doing so will in fact make it much better.
But, to go into it assuming you're going to be bullet proof, dodge them, or have some sort of magical health regen or insta-heal health packs would be inadvisable. If your opponent is in melee range, or very close to it, I have no doubt melee will rock. But if you expect to survive charging across an open space to get into melee ... good luck ... you'll need it. Implants or not you're not going to outrun or dodge bullets.

 

[Mk3rd]

to go into it assuming you're going to be bullet proof, dodge them, or have some sort of magical health regen or insta-heal health packs would be inadvisable. If your opponent is in melee range, or very close to it, I have no doubt melee will rock. But if you expect to survive charging across an open space to get into melee ... good luck ... you'll need it. Implants or not you're not going to outrun or dodge bullets.

People with the right implants can have superhuman reflexes. They could do it to an extent. Yeah sure if I'd be in an open area I'd be nothing but scrap and paste. But depending on the level design you could have tactics like stealth kill trash mobs and finish the stronger ones. But I guess I'll be forced to pick up a gun or have it as secondary if worse comes to worse.

 

[Sardukhar]

People with the right implants can have superhuman reflexes. They could do it to an extent. Yeah sure if I'd be in an open area I'd be nothing but scrap and paste. But depending on the level design you could have tactics like stealth kill trash mobs and finish the stronger ones. But I guess I'll be forced to pick up a gun or have it as secondary if worse comes to worse.

No, she's being literal, at least from the Cyberpunk 2020 system CDPR is using. Whether they keep it or not, who knows, but in that system, you can't dodge bullets, no matter how superhuman your reflexes. You can move so fast it's hard to hit you, but you can't dodge.

Stealth is also challenging, being more like, say, Hitman than Dragon Age or WoW. You need to use cover, distractions, timing.

This isn't an MMO. There aren't trash mobs. A 20 yr old gangbanger with a .45 can kill you just like the local Arasaka black ops guy.

That is, presuming CDPR doesn't fall into the video-game stereotype, of course.

 

[Corewolf]

I think it is worth pointing out that the trailer featured a Cyberpsycho that was modded out enough to A) BE Cyberpsycho (and all we saw was the arm blade mods... meaning there was a lot of work done under the hood, so to speak) and B) modded out enough that MAX-TAC recruited them after rehabilitation.

Sure, there might be some damage resistance to glancing shots (and that one that shattered on the cheek was glancing) but like Sardukhar said, 2020 always emphasized lethality.

From Wikipedia of all places

"The combat system, called "Friday Night Firefight", emphasizes lethality. Several pages in the rules are devoted to discussing real combat vs. the illusions often seen on TV. Attempts are made to keep the combat as realistic as possible in a game setting. No matter who the character is, a single bullet can result in a lethal wound. This encourages a more tactically oriented and thought-out game play, which is in accordance to the rough-and-gritty ethos of the Cyberpunk genre. Also, the amount of damage a character can sustain does not increase as the character develops. The only way a character can become more damage resistant is to either become better at not being hit, physically augment their body with muscle (trained or implanted) or cybernetics, or wear armor."

So she may have had some Cyber enhancement that let a bullet skip off and shatter.... But had that hit center of mass? I doubt she'd be standing/kneeling in the street

 

[cyberpunkforever]

it would depend on the augmentations or the armor, right?

 

[Suhiira]

Any armor light enough to carry vice be inside of (i.e. a vehicle or "Battle Dress") isn't going to bounce anything substantial.

Take a look at YouTube, the guys in EOD outfits, see how well they can move, and even that stuff won't stop high caliber/velocity rifle rounds.

 

[Sardukhar]

Weeeeellllll, Cpunk kids. You should know better.

Bodyplating gives you SP 25. You can have the faceplate custom-built, looks -very- nice, but limited facial expressions, SP 25.

5.56 does 5d6 damage. Cops don't immediately load for AP or API or DP rounds in their ARs, so that'd be 16, 17 damage on average.

So, yes, a 5.56 round would have bounced right off the faceplate.

Even AP or DP.... 17 damage, Armour to 12, leaves 5. Halved for AP, doubled back for Head, then subtract BTM. If she's combat build, she's running MBL aand what not, assume BTM of -3 or -4. So, yeah, 1 or 2 damage.

She's good to go.

Then Max-Tac steps up behind her with his Crusher, loaded with something fun and ugly, under a meter is maximum damage...goodnight, Gracie.

Edit: let me clarify before any would-be Wolverines get any nutty ideas, (presuming they stick to PnP)

That's from -one- hit of 5.56, not loaded with API or DPU or whatnot.

You put multiple rounds on that person, suddenly it's a different picture. You use 7.62, different picture..

Remember, you cannot dodge bullets in CP2020, so once you have three or four people firing, or one good shooter and it's over.

 

[Suhiira]

The 5.56 round isn't exactly known for it armor penetrating abilities, so it's what I'd call a "light rifle" round. But as Sardukhar said, make it a NATO 7.62 (vice the shorter Pact) round it's a whole new ballgame.

 

[reidyboy102998]

Weeeeellllll, Cpunk kids. You should know better.

Bodyplating gives you SP 25. You can have the faceplate custom-built, looks -very- nice, but limited facial expressions, SP 25.

5.56 does 5d6 damage. Cops don't immediately load for AP or API or DP rounds in their ARs, so that'd be 16, 17 damage on average.

So, yes, a 5.56 round would have bounced right off the faceplate.

Even AP or DP.... 17 damage, Armour to 12, leaves 5. Halved for AP, doubled back for Head, then subtract BTM. If she's combat build, she's running MBL aand what not, assume BTM of -3 or -4. So, yeah, 1 or 2 damage.

She's good to go.

Then Max-Tac steps up behind her with his Crusher, loaded with something fun and ugly, under a meter is maximum damage...goodnight, Gracie.

Edit: let me clarify before any would-be Wolverines get any nutty ideas, (presuming they stick to PnP)

That's from -one- hit of 5.56, not loaded with API or DPU or whatnot.

You put multiple rounds on that person, suddenly it's a different picture. You use 7.62, different picture..

Remember, you cannot dodge bullets in CP2020, so once you have three or four people firing, or one good shooter and it's over.

Thanks for giving me more insight about the Cyberpunk universe. Really appreciate it! On topic, bullet resistance would be cool, if only they have some sort of weak spot, let's say an implant on the back of the head. What would happen if the enemy has body plating around certain body parts, or worst case scenario all body plating on all body parts? Would we need some sort of EMP grenade to take out the enemy, or another environmental way/kill to our advantage? I'm going on a tangent and I apologize. Just my interpretation of this that's all.

 

[Sardukhar]

The 5.56 round isn't exactly known for it armor penetrating abilities, so it's what I'd call a "light rifle" round. .

Dunno if I'd say that, but my example was mostly based on what the cops in the trailer looked like they were using and that according to Cpunk Core Book, NCPD carries the Militech Ronin, 5.56. S&P also gives them the Hurricane Shotgun, but obviously that wasn't in play. Presuming they haven't changed all this by 2077.