Will CDPR ever respond to lack of RPG Mechanics and lack of choices?

[mr.Boolean]

Like man who playing RPG games all my life im really dont see the major lack of RPG mechanics in CP2077. All RPG generally linear, the choices like "what location visit first" or "kill or spare" cant be taken seriously. You always have main arc for your character giving him motivation. Complains what i see here on forum demands to completely overwrite the whole character arc. Its like complaining in ME2:"I dont want to work for cerberus! They are terrorists! I want to come back to alliance!" or in Dragon Age: "Why this stupid Dunkan force me to become gray warden? He is stupid! Why developers dont give me the choice not to drink the blood???".

So within the main arc of V you have variability, mostly in gameplay style.

P.S. Shooting is great

 

[exxxed]

Complains what i see here on forum demands to completely overwrite the whole character arc. Its like complaining in ME2:"I dont want to work for cerberus! They are terrorists! I want to come back to alliance!"

Funny that as that was the exact complaint floating about on Bioware's forums when Mass Effect 2 was released, AND the fact that they removed all the RPG elements in favor of making it a linear third person shooter.

Mandella effect if I've ever seen one.

P.S.

Love Mass Effect and Dragon Age but saying they're RPGs while Cyberpunk is not is ridiculous.

 

[heskyttberg]

you cannot be objectively _______ insert something subjective. Mediocre is not an objective quality. Its relative and ill defined.

That it's relative is true and subjective not really true.
If it's supposed to be an RPG or Action/Adventure or Loother shooter there are other games that does this very good and can easily be compared to and given a relative score compared. RPG Elderscrolls series/Fallout series/WoW/Knights of old Republic and so on. Action/Adventure Some star wars/Tombraider/Nathan Drake series and so on.
Looter shooter Borderlands, Destiny and so on.

GTA is the series that mostly reminds me of CP.

These games all did everything a lot better as what they are.
Bordelands yeah is a looter shooter dorpping tons of stuff, but guess what you have auto pickup so you don't have to destroy the controller.
Even RPGs like FO/Skyrim/WoW hold the button and everything in a radius is picked up or in WoW case you can change if one click pickup everything.

CP it is a chore to pickup everything. This is also something that might lead to corrupted save files because if not picked up it ends in small bags and if guy died in sofa bag is in the air telling me they use xyz coordinates for where loot is located.
Loot stays until picked up whereas in every other game like this not picked up loot despawns after set amoutn of time.
Bordelands have very short time for common stuff and money. 30 or at most 60 seconds only like epic stays for 5 minutes or so. even WoW epics go away if not looted after 15 minutes or so.

This is what makes this game mediocre in quality of life matters compared to games in the same genre.

Bad, Mediocre, Good, Very good is no different then giving it a 2 on rating of 1-4.
Mediocre usually means it's 1 step below OK and can be used in many places and most people will understand what you mean by saying that. f.e. How was the food? Oh it was mediocre!

Everything you said there is subjective

What you just said is also subjective by your own logic and makes what everyone and anyone say subjective which is true in some regard since our previous experiences and life put values behind what we are saying.

linear quests: its objectively non linear. you can literally do the quests out of linear order, the vast majority. This means you find it is not nonlinear enough, which is a subjective quality

What is meant by this is that too much of it is linear and you can't really ignore it. What would have made it less linear is f.e. if there was other ways to lift the lockdown on watson.

To me it really is strange that the lockdown ends after you steal something from Arasaka tower, should that not make them force the lockdown forever until the theif is found.

awful looter shooter itemization: awful is subjective, whether looter shooter itemization is bad is subjective. what a looter shooter is, is poorly defined

What it means is dropped items from killing random gangers are useless compared to crafted or gotten from stores, again not subjective you can compare to crafting and in game stores, also to other looter shooters or rpg games.

broken stealth mechanics: broken is ill defined. Whether stealth mechanics are bad or not is subjective

Again not subjective, corpses are discovered even if you drop them outside the building in water behind a concrete wall.
Corpses are discovered as you carry them outside from a guy in the back room when you disabled everything with tech so it does not go online again.

This is at least what I call broken.
Your argument of subjective is like you go back to the car salesman and say the car is broken because it doesn't start, the salesman now say oh that is a subjective opinion it's not broken look there are no dents on the outside the car is not broken.

Ai worse than industry standards: industry standards for Ai is poorly defined. "AI" varies from genre to genre and game to game wildly. Its also subjective how much AI matters for "good" game.

AI varies from game to game but I would not state from genre to genre as that has nothing do with AI.
And again this is not subjective.
In what other game will NPC stumble and fall on their own dead buddy, fall flat forward at all times seeing you but as they get up they turn away from you and don't know where you are anymore. It's funny the first few times but now it's just sad to watch.

I don't think I played any other open world game where enemy npc do not start searching for you.
Only other place I seen this is in some places using a sniper with full scope in FO4 you can see enemy but your out of range for them so they cannot see or find you.

But if we connect this to real world if someone would shoot your buddy next to you with a high powered sniper from 1k away you would have no idea from where that came and there would be no police spawning behind the shooter arresting them.

the point is your opinions are valid, thats how you feel about it, but thats not an objective truth. Its subjective. And by the objective metrics, and statistics most people have a positive experience with the game. Most people spend significant time with the game.

Same goes for any opinions including yours.

Expecting most people to dislike a game they like, because of outside reasons is unlikely. Your opinions are not as commonly held as you think they are. And they are not objective.

I still like this game, that is why I want dumb things to be fixed like looting it getting tired of looting everything.
XP for all skill trees are too low Athletics in particular but also engineering.

Even with the berserk mod glitch taking athletics from 1-20 means you need to be AFK for 90 minutes or so.
19-20 f.e. takes about 21 minutes. Can you see how you could get this skill from 19-20 in normal gameplay, not to talk about how to get to 19 in the first place.

Crafting, now knowing everything you craft increases the save file size how the fuck are you supposed to level crafting to 20 without crafting shit untill your ears bleed. level 19-20 requires 45k xp or something. that is 450 common nekomatas or about 45 legendary weapons but you also first need to get to level 19 whic is something like 200k+ xp.

Maxing out any weapon skill is also not possible through normal gameplay and I'm talking about clearing whole map of everything, not even when I almost only used widow maker I got it maxed out ended at level 15 or so.

This is not subjective opinions you can try it yourself in the game and if you do not already know about what I'm saying about skills, stealth and so on you have not played this game very much yet. Go try a stealth net hacking build and see how broken it is.

The AI also do not chase you outside of mission area, cyberpsychos in particular almost never leave the are so you can just stand outside and shoot them especially the melee ones.

All car chases are scripted I wanted to try so I had Legendary system reset and OS that spreads ultimate once.
So I used it on the cars chasing in the storm. The empty cars kept chasing us until leader said lie I know how to stop them and they magically blew up without me shooting.

 

[vahouth]

CP2077 is an RPG period.
How much of an RPG though is dependant on with which ones you compare it with.

 

[t3chmob]

All conseuences of lies from CDPR makes one thing possible - next Deux Ex game. Viva Deus Ex!

 

[Mentos3]

At one point I've to apologize to CP2077
Now you all

I was strolling trough Skyrim the last few days. Crawling in Dungeons, hoping for nice loot (....not 1.000 loot) checking my food stock before I go on a big tour, riding with my horse under trees, studying the skilltree - thats my thing. Or RDR2: sitting in warm clothes at a campfire in the mountains and trinking coffee (...getting killed by a cougar) - nice.
I like that. I didn't like the story (RDR2) or it is shallow (Skyrim). But I like to explore. Geralt, had is lone wolf (haha) moments, too but good stories at first.

A game with a modern city, cars - difficult to convince me. GTA, as an Action-Adventure has is special kind of humour and fabulous characters. The discussions between Franclin and his friend, seeing guy-with-anger-problems-Trevor in a tutu after a hangover, or going with family-problems-Michael on a drugtrip to the ground -

Or when he pulled the big, expensive house of the mountain ^^. Situations out of the blue, I was surprised in this moment and laughed my as* off (I really hope that they can hold the quality in GTA VI, I think a few important people left Rockstar - not a good sign, we know it). Uncharted - Being on a Indiana Jones Adventure, GoW - packed story, Detroit become Human - interactive film. Every game had its clear message.

CP2077 is not funny. The guy with the grenade in his face, could've been maybe a bizarre-funny twist - 2 Minutes Mission. And the other guy with his pp-problems - hmpf. To clumsy.
It is no adventure, 1st person aside: the stories are not straight trough, don't influence each other really, are to often interrupted (Don't call me, I call you). I really can't remember a game, where this was so dominant. It has not a "thick" storyline like an adventure.
It don't invites me to explore and I get drowned in loot. And I HAVE to pick it up, maybe something is worth it (98% not).
I never go to sleep, and I never had to eat for a boni. I don't have to go to a workstation, in a modern world I can craft my stuff in the shower.

I really don't know what CP2077 wants to tell me or what it wanted to be. And I think maybe a few things of different gametype-elements don't fit together. The looter-shooter part is very dominant.

But - maybe it's just me. I don't think there will be a overhaul to a RPG (or even an adventure). CDPR should have the number of how many games was refunded and if the numbers fits it fits. The goal is Multiplayer.

So to say: I've to build my house in Skyrim now...

 

[Kadayi]

- Snip for Brevity -

Whom exactly are you hoping to convince? You're stating your opinion and passing it off as if it the law. Just because a game allows for a certain amount of latitude of play doesn't magically mean that the developers somehow are going to account for every conceivable approach players will think up. If the game gives you two to three ways to do something, that'd generally acceptable in most peoples eyes.

You know which game won the most GOTY awards this year? TLOU2. Do you know who many choices you as the player get to make beyond 'How do I go about killing these fools in this combat scenario?' Zero. It's a complete on-rails experience. Where in the extent of your agency as a player is pressing buttons to dole you out the next cutscene.

 

[Guest 3847602]

Love Mass Effect and Dragon Age but saying they're RPGs while Cyberpunk is not is ridiculous.

Well, Origins is still a pure RPG, not action-RPG hybrid, but your point still stands: if Cyberpunk isn't doing enough to deserve to be called an RPG, then you'll have to go back as far as to 2010 and Alpha Protocol and New Vegas to find the last true big-budget RPG. They're gone from AAA studios and they've been gone for a very long time.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

That it's relative is true and subjective not really true.
If it's supposed to be an RPG or Action/Adventure or Loother shooter there are other games that does this very good and can easily be compared to and given a relative score compared. RPG Elderscrolls series/Fallout series/WoW/Knights of old Republic and so on. Action/Adventure Some star wars/Tombraider/Nathan Drake series and so on.
Looter shooter Borderlands, Destiny and so on.

GTA is the series that mostly reminds me of CP.

These games all did everything a lot better as what they are.
Bordelands yeah is a looter shooter dorpping tons of stuff, but guess what you have auto pickup so you don't have to destroy the controller.
Even RPGs like FO/Skyrim/WoW hold the button and everything in a radius is picked up or in WoW case you can change if one click pickup everything.

CP it is a chore to pickup everything. This is also something that might lead to corrupted save files because if not picked up it ends in small bags and if guy died in sofa bag is in the air telling me they use xyz coordinates for where loot is located.
Loot stays until picked up whereas in every other game like this not picked up loot despawns after set amoutn of time.
Bordelands have very short time for common stuff and money. 30 or at most 60 seconds only like epic stays for 5 minutes or so. even WoW epics go away if not looted after 15 minutes or so.

This is what makes this game mediocre in quality of life matters compared to games in the same genre.

Bad, Mediocre, Good, Very good is no different then giving it a 2 on rating of 1-4.
Mediocre usually means it's 1 step below OK and can be used in many places and most people will understand what you mean by saying that. f.e. How was the food? Oh it was mediocre!




What you just said is also subjective by your own logic and makes what everyone and anyone say subjective which is true in some regard since our previous experiences and life put values behind what we are saying.



What is meant by this is that too much of it is linear and you can't really ignore it. What would have made it less linear is f.e. if there was other ways to lift the lockdown on watson.

To me it really is strange that the lockdown ends after you steal something from Arasaka tower, should that not make them force the lockdown forever until the theif is found.



What it means is dropped items from killing random gangers are useless compared to crafted or gotten from stores, again not subjective you can compare to crafting and in game stores, also to other looter shooters or rpg games.



Again not subjective, corpses are discovered even if you drop them outside the building in water behind a concrete wall.
Corpses are discovered as you carry them outside from a guy in the back room when you disabled everything with tech so it does not go online again.

This is at least what I call broken.
Your argument of subjective is like you go back to the car salesman and say the car is broken because it doesn't start, the salesman now say oh that is a subjective opinion it's not broken look there are no dents on the outside the car is not broken.



AI varies from game to game but I would not state from genre to genre as that has nothing do with AI.
And again this is not subjective.
In what other game will NPC stumble and fall on their own dead buddy, fall flat forward at all times seeing you but as they get up they turn away from you and don't know where you are anymore. It's funny the first few times but now it's just sad to watch.

I don't think I played any other open world game where enemy npc do not start searching for you.
Only other place I seen this is in some places using a sniper with full scope in FO4 you can see enemy but your out of range for them so they cannot see or find you.

But if we connect this to real world if someone would shoot your buddy next to you with a high powered sniper from 1k away you would have no idea from where that came and there would be no police spawning behind the shooter arresting them.


Same goes for any opinions including yours.


I still like this game, that is why I want dumb things to be fixed like looting it getting tired of looting everything.
XP for all skill trees are too low Athletics in particular but also engineering.

Even with the berserk mod glitch taking athletics from 1-20 means you need to be AFK for 90 minutes or so.
19-20 f.e. takes about 21 minutes. Can you see how you could get this skill from 19-20 in normal gameplay, not to talk about how to get to 19 in the first place.

Crafting, now knowing everything you craft increases the save file size how the fuck are you supposed to level crafting to 20 without crafting shit untill your ears bleed. level 19-20 requires 45k xp or something. that is 450 common nekomatas or about 45 legendary weapons but you also first need to get to level 19 whic is something like 200k+ xp.

Maxing out any weapon skill is also not possible through normal gameplay and I'm talking about clearing whole map of everything, not even when I almost only used widow maker I got it maxed out ended at level 15 or so.

This is not subjective opinions you can try it yourself in the game and if you do not already know about what I'm saying about skills, stealth and so on you have not played this game very much yet. Go try a stealth net hacking build and see how broken it is.

The AI also do not chase you outside of mission area, cyberpsychos in particular almost never leave the are so you can just stand outside and shoot them especially the melee ones.

All car chases are scripted I wanted to try so I had Legendary system reset and OS that spreads ultimate once.
So I used it on the cars chasing in the storm. The empty cars kept chasing us until leader said lie I know how to stop them and they magically blew up without me shooting.

I have opinions, but I wasn't stating my opinions, I was applying logic and using facts.

there is a big difference between what objective and subjective means, and while its hard to speak on at a philosophical level, somethings are less debateable.

mediocre, as you define it, is worse than a 2/4 but 2/4 is a subjective measurement. And even if it was, most people have not rated the game as being below 2/4

I am not saying your complaints are valid or invalid, I'm saying you're reason why the game is bad are subjective. Nothing wrong with that, but it means that Other people may not share those views, and they are not wrong for it.

Also, the game has 79% positive reviews on steam, with a sample size of 360,000 reviews. That means most people think this is a good game. My original beef saying the game was objectively mediocre. as I said, and you defined, mediocre is not objective.
for clarity, objective examples: red, 6 foot 2 inches, woman. subjective examples: vibrant, tall, feminine

 

[Geolas96]

There are plenty of rpg elements and choices to make. How will you approach the mission? sneak, hack, melee, snipe, ignore it completely? Do you choose to spare life or execute whenever you have the chance? How will you build your character? lots of rpg element there. Do all your choices have an impact on the end of the game? NO, cause it's not a fucking life simulator. It's a story driven action rpg.

>How will you approach the mission? sneak, hack, melee, snipe, ignore it completely?
This is literal Ubisoft tier of ""choice"", first of all and has nothing to do with what the actual issue is. Different half baked gameplay paths are one thing, but the issue here is that none of your choices matter in the context that it was advertised. None of your choices have any effect on the world at large, your character, your surroundings or even the story itself.
And this isnt hype blinding people, this is what was advertised literal weeks to months before launch.
How your choices affected the world was something they were talking about literally every time they presented anything about the game, why are people just contend to sweep this under the rug as if all everyone ever expected was a Ubisoft Sandbox with even less depth? Why are people actually defending the laughable state of the Game, that, apart from the visuals, is so ridiculously bland and cheap in terms of gameplay, some of my friends have actively compared the combat to a bloody FTP MMO. People who are defending these kind of practices are the reason why Gamers will keep getting lied to and sold the Video Game equivalent of snake oil. You were lied to. They scrapped just about everything they presented and everything that would have made the game interesting. What is left is a mediocre shooter which is as much an RPG as Far Cry is an RPG and good for a weekend at best.

>Do all your choices have an impact on the end of the game?
NONE do. And that is the precise issue. People were expecting the things that were advertised and promised. An RPG, with actual RPG elements and not five skilltrees with random stat boosts that change barely anything about the gameplay or how you play, with the entire Engineer tree being useless.
And thats not even talking about some of the most blatant cases of underdevelopment I've seen in my life. From Police, Enemy and NPC AI to the Melee Mechanics and so much more. This game feels like some Early Access title, and that is an objective fact. You cannot tell me that police spawning behind you is perfectly reasonable and polished. The fact that the Devs took a look at this and state that this is fine and what they envisioned is, quite frankly, infuriating.

What happened here is, in some aspects so scammy and deliberately misleading its almost comical. The Melee Takedowns presented in the trailers are the only ones present. The Missions presented from the gameplay are the only ones that have some of the choice and features promised. All of this screams of a deliberate deception in my opinion and I find it, quite frankly, laughable that some people are defending this mess.

Post automatically merged: Jan 23, 2021

I have opinions, but I wasn't stating my opinions, I was applying logic and using facts.

there is a big difference between what objective and subjective means, and while its hard to speak on at a philosophical level, somethings are less debateable.

mediocre, as you define it, is worse than a 2/4 but 2/4 is a subjective measurement. And even if it was, most people have not rated the game as being below 2/4

I am not saying your complaints are valid or invalid, I'm saying you're reason why the game is bad are subjective. Nothing wrong with that, but it means that Other people may not share those views, and they are not wrong for it.

Also, the game has 79% positive reviews on steam, with a sample size of 360,000 reviews. That means most people think this is a good game. My original beef saying the game was objectively mediocre. as I said, and you defined, mediocre is not objective.
for clarity, objective examples: red, 6 foot 2 inches, woman. subjective examples: vibrant, tall, feminine

>Also, the game has 79% positive reviews on steam, with a sample size of 360,000 reviews.
Half of which were reviewed minutes into the Game or are simple "its cool" statements, that are never bothered to be corrected.
This game has cops spawning in behind you, no vehicle AI and no real functional Combat AI and people here are pretending like this is in any way acceptable for a product that promised to deliver a milestone in immersion and atmosphere.

Post automatically merged: Jan 23, 2021

Whom exactly are you hoping to convince? You're stating your opinion and passing it off as if it the law. Just because a game allows for a certain amount of latitude of play doesn't magically mean that the developers somehow are going to account for every conceivable approach players will think up. If the game gives you two to three ways to do something, that'd generally acceptable in most peoples eyes.

You know which game won the most GOTY awards this year? TLOU2. Do you know who many choices you as the player get to make beyond 'How do I go about killing these fools in this combat scenario?' Zero. It's a complete on-rails experience. Where in the extent of your agency as a player is pressing buttons to dole you out the next cutscene.

Was the last of us ever advertised as a game where your choices matter to the story? Im sorry, but what kind of a comparison is that? Yes, there are games that are good without that kind of choice, such as linear story experiences. It still doesn't change the fact that this isn't what the game was advertised as and that is an objective fact.
People can defend this as much as they please in my opinion, you are essentially defending that you were scammed and sold a game that feels like an Ubisoft title dished out every year, but even more bland.
Everybody is entitled to their own opinion about games and products, but to defend this absolute joke with flaws that are, in our current time, simply inexcusable, (again, the Police AI as a shining example) as if it was perfectly reasonable to release something this half baked and present it as a perfectly valid, fleshed out title, is just not understandable to me.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

>How will you approach the mission? sneak, hack, melee, snipe, ignore it completely?
This is literal Ubisoft tier of ""choice"", first of all and has nothing to do with what the actual issue is. Different half baked gameplay paths are one thing, but the issue here is that none of your choices matter in the context that it was advertised. None of your choices have any effect on the world at large, your character, your surroundings or even the story itself.
And this isnt hype blinding people, this is what was advertised literal weeks to months before launch.
How your choices affected the world was something they were talking about literally every time they presented anything about the game, why are people just contend to sweep this under the rug as if all everyone ever expected was a Ubisoft Sandbox with even less depth? Why are people actually defending the laughable state of the Game, that, apart from the visuals, is so ridiculously bland and cheap in terms of gameplay, some of my friends have actively compared the combat to a bloody FTP MMO. People who are defending these kind of practices are the reason why Gamers will keep getting lied to and sold the Video Game equivalent of snake oil. You were lied to. They scrapped just about everything they presented and everything that would have made the game interesting. What is left is a mediocre shooter which is as much an RPG as Far Cry is an RPG and good for a weekend at best.

>Do all your choices have an impact on the end of the game?
NONE do. And that is the precise issue. People were expecting the things that were advertised and promised. An RPG, with actual RPG elements and not five skilltrees with random stat boosts that change barely anything about the gameplay or how you play, with the entire Engineer tree being useless.
And thats not even talking about some of the most blatant cases of underdevelopment I've seen in my life. From Police, Enemy and NPC AI to the Melee Mechanics and so much more. This game feels like some Early Access title, and that is an objective fact. You cannot tell me that police spawning behind you is perfectly reasonable and polished. The fact that the Devs took a look at this and state that this is fine and what they envisioned is, quite frankly, infuriating.

What happened here is, in some aspects so scammy and deliberately misleading its almost comical. The Melee Takedowns presented in the trailers are the only ones present. The Missions presented from the gameplay are the only ones that have some of the choice and features promised. All of this screams of a deliberate deception in my opinion and I find it, quite frankly, laughable that some people are defending this mess.

Post automatically merged: Jan 23, 2021

>Also, the game has 79% positive reviews on steam, with a sample size of 360,000 reviews.
Half of which were reviewed minutes into the Game or are simple "its cool" statements, that are never bothered to be corrected.
This game has cops spawning in behind you, no vehicle AI and no real functional Combat AI and people here are pretending like this is in any way acceptable for a product that promised to deliver a milestone in immersion and atmosphere.

choices matter in game and effect the world, you just don't care about the ways they chose to effect the world.
in downtown, after you do the hitjob quest on Gustavo Orta, Graffiti starts appearing commemorating him. If you save brick, you meet him later and he helps you out. If you kill the VDB leaders, they aggro you without provocation. If you date rogue, the bouncer gets annoyed at your existence. If you do panam's side quests, any quest with aldecado, they become friendly and greet you. If you side with maiko, Judy will delete you from her phone. Takamura lives or dies based on your choice, and will take part in the final mission and its ending if you save him. Characters that died in your playthrough get tombstones. There are tons of things effected by other things. They are just not the things you want to be effected. And they are not all obvious for people who don't pay attention to most of the content.

 

[Geolas96]

With my rescpect to all, you dont like the game? refund it and go to play something else, there a ton of videogame out there

I honest to God do not think people should let this slide. If you do not complain loud enough, this sends a signal that you can get away with something like this.
I mean, for all I care, they can pretend its not happening as much as they want, people are pissed, and the people who aren't enjoyed it because they had zero expecations whatsoever, though I could say the same of myself, as I would have been happy with a passable RPG in a cyberpunk world and I was still disappointed.
Point is, the people who are happy knocked it out in a Weekend and are moving on. Ubisoft got them covered for that kinda stuff so its not like they'll be back anytime soon.
And the longer they pretend everything is A okay and this is just the standard of games CD Project RED is happy with, the more people will begin to fuck off and just not buy their products anymore.
Again, they can pretend as much as they want that it isn't happening, but I think there's a lot of people who scratched CDPR of their lists when it comes to developers to be excited about.

Their best course of action would be, in my opinion, to dump blame on the management and get to work and start talking content instead of pretending like the game is a masterpiece hindered by a buggy launch. No one gives a shit about bugs. Bugs are to be expected in a massive open world game, though this launch was particularly disastrous in that regard. What will stick, in my opinion, will be the fact that they released an utterly unfinished game with the gameplay depth of a medium sized puddle after a three month drought in the Arizona heat while pretending that everything they promised is in the game, pointing to a bunch of scripted one time sequences.

Post automatically merged: Jan 23, 2021

choices matter in game and effect the world, you just don't care about the ways they chose to effect the world.
in downtown, after you do the hitjob quest on Gustavo Orta, Graffiti starts appearing commemorating him. If you save brick, you meet him later and he helps you out. If you kill the VDB leaders, they aggro you without provocation. If you date rogue, the bouncer gets annoyed at your existence. If you do panam's side quests, any quest with aldecado, they become friendly and greet you. If you side with maiko, Judy will delete you from her phone. Takamura lives or dies based on your choice, and will take part in the final mission and its ending if you save him. Characters that died in your playthrough get tombstones. There are tons of things effected by other things. They are just not the things you want to be effected. And they are not all obvious for people who don't pay attention to most of the content.

The thing is that most of the choices in the game are purely cosmetic. The ending is basically decided shortly before it. And you can freely choose which one you like. Close to nothing that happens before affects this, the game simulates choice where there is none. I think the prologue is probably a very good example, as nothing you do has any bearing on what comes afterwards. Most people literally just expected New Vegas levels of player action affecting the story, even though they literally claimed that no two players would have the same playthrough, but thats a different story.
I think a great example of what I mean is the Maelstrom mission that is so often praised here.
You cant actually go in Guns blazing. You can only walk through the front door, into the room and then either use the credit chip, pay yourself, shoot Royce (which you do anyways if you use the fake credit chip) and thats that. You dont actually have the opportunity to earn as much money as you need, if you dont get into ridiculous grinding, as far as I know. You cant actually leave the room with Royce in it through any other way then the one we all took. The door has a level 20 strength check, but if you actually use it (which you normally cant), you'll find that behind it, theres just an empty room behind, where you glitch through the floor.
Nearly all choices you have usually lead to the same outcome, be it in conversations or elsewhere and this is just not what was advertised, especially when you know from TW3 that they can actually do better.
And I know that the example you listed do affect the story, but all the things you stated are literally STANDARD for anything that considers itself an RPG. This is the literal baseline, if it didnt have that it would be even more laughable. What people were expecting based on what they were told was something more, and they simply didnt deliver.

 

[ottakanawa]

Probably never.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

I honest to God do not think people should let this slide. If you do not complain loud enough, this sends a signal that you can get away with something like this.
I mean, for all I care, they can pretend its not happening as much as they want, people are pissed, and the people who aren't enjoyed it because they had zero expecations whatsoever, though I could say the same of myself, as I would have been happy with a passable RPG in a cyberpunk world and I was still disappointed.
Point is, the people who are happy knocked it out in a Weekend and are moving on. Ubisoft got them covered for that kinda stuff so its not like they'll be back anytime soon.
And the longer they pretend everything is A okay and this is just the standard of games CD Project RED is happy with, the more people will begin to fuck off and just not buy their products anymore.
Again, they can pretend as much as they want that it isn't happening, but I think there's a lot of people who scratched CDPR of their lists when it comes to developers to be excited about.

Their best course of action would be, in my opinion, to dump blame on the management and get to work and start talking content instead of pretending like the game is a masterpiece hindered by a buggy launch. No one gives a shit about bugs. Bugs are to be expected in a massive open world game, though this launch was particularly disastrous in that regard. What will stick, in my opinion, will be the fact that they released an utterly unfinished game with the gameplay depth of a medium sized puddle after a three month drought in the Arizona heat while pretending that everything they promised is in the game, pointing to a bunch of scripted one time sequences.

Complaining loudly for the sake of improvement, it used to work, but I don't know if that motivates people anymore. They can now look at metrics. Also many of the things the many various players think are the "real" problems, are not what other's think. So listening to one guy, may lose some other guys. Some want more main story, others want less main story, more open world. Some want more challenging combat, others want to be OP. Some want branching content, some want access to all major content on one playthrough.

Also, This game is probably pretty close to as good as this studio could do in the time/resources they had. Its no small feat, its very ambitious, and falls short in certain ways, but is really good in others. If you think the game is shallow and weak, thats not the type of thing thats going to change with a patch, or two patches, or an expansion.

 

[Geolas96]

Complaining loudly for the sake of improvement, it used to work, but I don't know if that motivates people anymore. They can now look at metrics. Also many of the things the many various players think are the "real" problems, are not what other's think. So listening to one guy, may lose some other guys. Some want more main story, others want less main story, more open world. Some want more challenging combat, others want to be OP. Some want branching content, some want access to all major content on one playthrough.

Also, This game is probably pretty close to as good as this studio could do in the time/resources they had. Its no small feat, its very ambitious, and falls short in certain ways, but is really good in others. If you think the game is shallow and weak, thats not the type of thing thats going to change with a patch, or two patches, or an expansion.

>Also, This game is probably pretty close to as good as this studio could do in the time/resources they had.
I agree. I know what the developers are capable of and this isn't on them to blame.


> If you think the game is shallow and weak, thats not the type of thing thats going to change with a patch, or two patches, or an expansion.

A lot of people have talked about a No Mans Sky level comeback, but I suppose thats too much to ask. What I found especially ridiculous was that, whatever his name was, said in an interview, about said rumor supposedly originating from a Dev that exactly such a comeback was planned and that tons of things had been scrapped, that it was false and that the game was exactly how they all intended it.
Everyone I knew just straight up dropped them, deleted the game, got a refund or just simply moved on afterwards.

>Also many of the things the many various players think are the "real" problems
I think we can agree that AI that was done better in games 20 years ago is a "real" problem, among a lot of others. The story, I can understand, as it is hard to change things without pissing off others. But take a look at that Police AI and honest to god tell me that this in any way acceptable in 2020.
The game reeks of stripped content left and right and ignoring that and just pretending that its fine, is in my opinion going to set a real shit precedent. Ubisoft got away with lying about the graphics of their games, but this Game is literally lying about the fundamentals.
If this sticks, future developers might just promise you the moon and then deliver something that doesnt even resemble the advertised product in the slightest and that'll be the new standard lol.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

>Also, This game is probably pretty close to as good as this studio could do in the time/resources they had.
I agree. I know what the developers are capable of and this isn't on them to blame.


> If you think the game is shallow and weak, thats not the type of thing thats going to change with a patch, or two patches, or an expansion.

A lot of people have talked about a No Mans Sky level comeback, but I suppose thats too much to ask. What I found especially ridiculous was that, whatever his name was, said in an interview, about said rumor supposedly originating from a Dev that exactly such a comeback was planned and that tons of things had been scrapped, that it was false and that the game was exactly how they all intended it.
Everyone I knew just straight up dropped them, deleted the game, got a refund or just simply moved on afterwards.

>Also many of the things the many various players think are the "real" problems
I think we can agree that AI that was done better in games 20 years ago is a "real" problem, among a lot of others. The story, I can understand, as it is hard to change things without pissing off others. But take a look at that Police AI and honest to god tell me that this in any way acceptable in 2020.
The game reeks of stripped content left and right and ignoring that and just pretending that its fine, is in my opinion going to set a real shit precedent. Ubisoft got away with lying about the graphics of their games, but this Game is literally lying about the fundamentals.
If this sticks, future developers might just promise you the moon and then deliver something that doesnt even resemble the advertised product in the slightest and that'll be the new standard lol.

I don't care about rando npc AI, it does the job I need from rando npcs,
I don't care about police AI, I know some other people care a lot, but I don't.

If I had to choose the next fixes, it would probably perks/items/abilities/shops that don't work/as intended.
for features, I'd rather have easier appearance customization, new quests, new stories, maybe some new endings, a higher difficulty balanced for level 50 with good gear (so maybe newgame+) Better cutscene skipping. Replayable mini games (like boxing/racing/shooting)

to be completely honest, Better Rando npc routines is really far down my list. At least the cop appearance thing might create new gameplay.

point being, everyone has different priorities


oh yeah, and on your last point about the lying, personally I watched those videos and they didnt seem dishonest to me. They were pretty close to what we got IMO(considering in progress), so I dont feel I need to take a stand about dishonesty

 

[ArgoZinzu]

Agreed, that's why I'm hopeful for the future, what they achieved with Jali (I'm not going to stop singing it's praise) is absolutely outstanding, for an AI animation algorithm to rival motion capture it's out of this world for me. Hence why I believe we're closer than we thing to a true open ended cinematic RPG.

Although if anyone is willing to try anything similar ever again with the entire outrage fiasco surrounding mainstream media of all forms is another story.

I think the big boys are just going to play it safe from here on.

That's why I think it's worth fighting for CDPR, Larian, Obsidian (can't wait to see their take on open world first person RPG) etc.

if you played wither 3 you saw this play out make choice and later you paid for or you benefited. choice matters was promise but not actually done the story is just short and straight forward nothing is affected by choice till the end and even then its not really choice

 

[Kadayi]

Was the last of us ever advertised as a game where your choices matter to the story? Im sorry, but what kind of a comparison is that? Yes, there are games that are good without that kind of choice, such as linear story experiences. It still doesn't change the fact that this isn't what the game was advertised as and that is an objective fact.
People can defend this as much as they please in my opinion, you are essentially defending that you were scammed and sold a game that feels like an Ubisoft title dished out every year, but even more bland.
Everybody is entitled to their own opinion about games and products, but to defend this absolute joke with flaws that are, in our current time, simply inexcusable, (again, the Police AI as a shining example) as if it was perfectly reasonable to release something this half baked and present it as a perfectly valid, fleshed out title, is just not understandable to me.

I'm not making a comparison. I'm merely demonstrating that a game doesn't need to proffer infinite ways to complete a mission to please people. So holding CP2077s feet to the fire because they only offered you a mere 3 ways to complete a mission is kind of bogus. A lot of high profile AAA games don't offer you much in the way of player agency in the first place. The fact that CDP has with CP2077, in what is an open-world title is nothing to scoff about because very few developers even attempt that.

As for being scammed. I don't know about you, but I've clocked over 380 hours in CP2077 in a few playthroughs trying out different builds/approaches and loved everyone one of them. In terms of value proposition, I'm pretty happy with that, and I'm not done yet. Bugs are somewhat annoying at times, but not a dealbreaker and I look forward to the day when they are all squished, as well as updates and improvements to the core systems and more story-based DLC. In short: -

We're a good month past release at this juncture. If the games not for you that's unfortunate, but I sadly can't relate to your list of ongoing grievances. If I'm not enjoying a game, I don't camp out on the developer's forums to write lengthy diatribes as to why people who are enjoying it are wrong, I just find another game to play.

 

[exxxed]

if you played wither 3 you saw this play out make choice and later you paid for or you benefited. choice matters was promise but not actually done the story is just short and straight forward nothing is affected by choice till the end and even then its not really choice

Not quite, it had exactly the same tropes Cyberpunk has (played all three witcher games multiple times and compared to the first two witcher games, the third one has a distinctive lack of narrative choices with long lasting impact) and no amount of slideshows is going to remedy it.

Most of them were cosmetic changes, what exactly truly changed at the end of Bloody Baron quest line (which I'd compare to The Pickup in Cyberpunk). The baron disappears out of the picture regardless of choice and everything else is cosmetic. All your choices lead up to the same story beats, Wild Hunt appears in the exact same places all the set pieces are the same all the boss fights end up playing the same, the only difference is dialogue flavor and the three main endings.

Cyberpunk is the same, side quests have multiple endings, the dialogue changes based on your choices and some choices help or hinder you in the long run.

Depending on how you treat the characters determines what ending you get, sometimes regardless if you do their respective quest chain or not (didn't even know if you dismiss Johnny you get locked out of his Rogue ending and quest chains, same goes with Panam and your love interests that add flavor and minor changes to the ending just like in The Witcher 3).

I honestly think people aren't being fair to either games, it's unproductive to treat one like it's a God send and bash the other one at every turn when they're both suffering from the same problems (bugs and AI included).

 

[Yllana_Ardais]

@Geolas96: appreciate the way you're hitting the head on most of the game's problems. I really don't get how so many people here are apparently happy they were lied to and served a mediocre product. If I wanted a Ubisoft game, I would have bought a Ubisoft game. (To be fair, the characters and worldbuilding are way better than in a Ubsioft product, but the rest...)

Cyberpunk is the same, side quests have multiple endings, the dialogue changes based on your choices and some choices help or hinder you in the long run.

Depending on how you treat the characters determines what ending you get, sometimes regardless if you do their respective quest chain or not (didn't even know if you dismiss Johnny you get locked out of his Rogue ending and quest chains, same goes with Panam and your love interests that add flavor and minor changes to the ending just like in The Witcher 3).

enlighten me. How many quests are there that actually have multiple endings that actually differ from each other in outcome and not just in tone? A handful at best.
Bascially, the only differences I see in most quests is: you can either do the quest or refuse to do the quest or fail the quest. Failing or refusing the quest locks you out of the complete rest of the quest chain, which is not really a choice, it just makes the game shorter.

The endings are also mostly the same and are determined by some random decision on a rooftop. They don't even make sense if you look at them seperately. E.g., why do you have to leave NC in the Aldecaldo ending just beacuse you asked for their help? My V was absolutely against their way of life, repeated this time and time again and still left NC with them in the end without me having any input. The Aldecaldos owed V a favor they repaid by helping him get into Arasaka HQ. This should not automatically mean that V has to join them and become a tarmac rat. So much for choices. The other endings have similar issues. The endings disregard all the "choices"Imade during the game regarding V's personality and railroad you into an ending based on ONE decision that should only be about who you want to fight with, not how you want to spend the rest of your short life.
The "choices" are superficial.