Guess for me i dont have any other games to move on to right so i keep going back replaying and exploring. Maybe im just bore with other games cause i over played them and this one offers me new challenges and skills to try much like MGS5
Guess for me i dont have any other games to move on to right so i keep going back replaying and exploring. Maybe im just bore with other games cause i over played them and this one offers me new challenges and skills to try much like MGS5
Pretty obvious most people aren't moving on. We're here to solve a problem not be defeatist. The public is making themselves very understandable now we just need to be understood.
There are people moving to other games and hobbies, like with any product. Some of us also got product we liked and then you speak about the public, yet exclude people who move on from this public.
Before you crack this solve with this game, maybe give few seconds to think what an oxymoron is.
Like I said we're not here to be defeatist we're here to solve a problem. I also said the most people haven't moved on so I fail to see the contradiction you speak of. If you want to give up and move on please do but you cannot deny that there's more people trying to get What was promised then people who have given up all you got to do is look around.
It's possible, but incredibly unlikely. I think, at it's core, CDPR doesn't really have the "drive" to make deep rpgs. And their rpg team is, imo, simply very inexperienced and untalented. ( I remember just before release their rpg lead designer was hyping all over Twitter "awesome depth" of all the rpg systems and character builds).
It would take a full-on, balls to the walls, overhaul of existing systems. And lot of additional content would have to be added exclusively focused on enhancing roleplaying aspects.
- Complete revision of stats, perks, skills, gear and loot: away from looter elements and redesigned as classic rpg systems
- Added lot of traditional quest content with heavy emphasis on npc dialogue, player choices and different outcomes.
- Added factions that player could join, with central storylines plus additional activities ( Max Tac, Trauma team, Rock band, Media, etc).
- Consequently added also faction reputation system
What CDPR will most likely do, if Witcher III is any indication and you can see them already doing it:
- slightly rearrange stats on gear ( without really changing it significantly), add transmog system
- add few more extra weapons and cyberware options
- even more global level scaling ( to "fix" difficulty), even more gear upgrade costs ( to "fix" economy)
- add some additional, more story driven quests with some c&c
For people who were really disappointed with it as an rpg, these changes won't really change their mind. Those who were fine with it will get a slightly better version than now.
It would take a full-on, balls to the walls, overhaul of existing systems. And lot of additional content would have to be added exclusively focused on enhancing roleplaying aspects.
- Complete revision of stats, perks, skills, gear and loot: away from looter elements and redesigned as classic rpg systems
- Added lot of traditional quest content with heavy emphasis on npc dialogue, player choices and different outcomes.
- Added factions that player could join, with central storylines plus additional activities ( Max Tac, Trauma team, Rock band, Media, etc).
- Consequently added also faction reputation system
What CDPR will most likely do, if Witcher III is any indication and you can see them already doing it:
- slightly rearrange stats on gear ( without really changing it significantly), add transmog system
- add few more extra weapons and cyberware options
- even more global level scaling ( to "fix" difficulty), even more gear upgrade costs ( to "fix" economy)
- add some additional, more story driven quests with some c&c
For people who were really disappointed with it as an rpg, these changes won't really change their mind. Those who were fine with it will get a slightly better version than now.
If CDPR were to make a RPG out of this mess I would definitely give it another chance.
The world and story are there, just hidden beneath a pile of junk.
I fear that this wont happen though. Too much has changed at CDPR from when they made the Witcher and the amount of rework that needs to be done...
Better they focus on next iteration of Witcher and Cyberpunk.
I think people have very nostalgic view of the Witcher here. Rpg mechanics there were also very undeveloped and poorly executed: mutagens ( which were completely lackluster), leveling, shallow and dull perks and loot system, simplistic swordplay with almost no active abilities, no stats ( except Witcher I ), dumbed down Alchemy, pointless crafting system, etc.
People simply had far more restrained expectations as Geralt was predefined character.
Main difference was that a lot of quests involved dialogue and moral outcomes, while in Cyberpunk they overlooked that in exchange for expanding freeform gameplay aspect of quests.
For example, just in Witcher III tutorial area, you have numerous quests where you're placed in morally grey area and decide what happens with several characters ( drunk arsenist, fate of Nilfgaardian soldier who saved someone's life, Temerian soldier who raided supplies, etc).
While gigs are more complex from quest design perspective ( Sasko talked about it on Twitch), what they lack is emotional engagement with characters and the world ( as, by their nature, they are more straightforward, simply-get-the-job-done, tasks). This is one of strongest aspects of CDPR's games, so it's very strange how CDPR has forgotten this. ( there are a couple of exceptions like Highwayman, BDM father-son studio, AI quest, etc).
I think reception of Cyberpunk's quests would be a lot better if instead of gigs we had smaller, story-driven quests with characters you meet on the streets ( or from hubs like Afterlife), while gigs replaced all the open world side content ( kill-gangmembers-in-the-area/retrieve evidence). This way lifepaths can also be used much more frequently and with greater impact.
Delivering "story" through notes on someone's corpse is a very unimmersive and uninvolving form of storytelling ( "Tell, don't show"), especially when you abuse it.
Plus, it makes the world feel more static ( why would anyone stand around all day, indefinitely, next to a corpse of someone they murdered?).
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I started a new "Blood and bones" game today. It will be my sixth playthrough if I complete it.
Not so much nostalgia as multiple choices that will change the outcome.
I think I'll make Ciri a Witcher and romance Triss. My preferred ending.
I am not in total agreement with you. Since player proficiency does play a bigger part than in PnP rpgs and stats mainly tend to be requisites for different builds, stats seems a bit superfluous to me.
But that is a bit beside the point.
I do agree though about quests and gigs. And one of the faults with CP is that nothing really matters. The ending is the same.
One of the other faults CDPR did was to try to combine "Fortnite" with a slowly unfolding story and on top of that push that you need to hurry.
"If you don't get the relic out fast you'll die!"
The mismatch was too big.
Most people playing it now don't bother with the main story. They kill, loot, collect cars and change their appearance. "The Sims" in Night city. Not playing a role or a game but living an alternate reality. Good for them.
There are more people playing W3 than CP looking at Steams statistics.
I wouldn't mind to elaborate as to why, I've done it several times in other threads on this forum. But it usually ends with some of the die hard fans coming around telling me that it's the greatest game ever.
[...]
Nah, cant be bothered.
Let me mourn this game and this company. I have hope, but no faith...
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Plenty of RPG's have little to no effect from the player. Some of them were considered among the best games of their time.
I enjoyed CP2077 so I`m not gonna tell them what to do. Yes I would like some things to be changed but you just cant please everyone and I totally understand the amount of work and time you need to create those scenes with different voice actors, animations etc. It was much easier to do when RPG games were like Fallout 1 or 2. Now 95% of people wants shiny visual things and it just expands a lot. Not sure if people would want to wait 10 years for a game when majority of them would play once anyway and didnt have a chance to see full content.
I waited 8 years for CP2077 (yes I signed on for the mailing list in 2012).
I've been waiting 15 years for Stalker 2 (as CS and CoP are extensions to the story rather than new games).
I waited 10 years for Fallout 3 (and that was a blast being a first person perspective rather than isometric).
BioShock, 3 years for BS2 and 3 years for Infinite.
Witcher 2 4 years and 3 4 years more.
From what I understand the plans for CP was scrapped in 2016 and then again in 2018. About now would be the time to release CP2077...
Good games takes time to make. Read my signature...
OK, there is also business side to it - only biggest companies can afford years of development. I`m not sure if CD Projekt has resources to finance it. At least not for that price.
Of the games listed above, one (Fallout 3) was published by a somewhat large publisher Bethesda Softworks. That was back in 2004, eighteen years ago, and they have both risen and fallen since then.
I would argue that the next biggest company on that list is CDPR.
All the others were small or even to be considered independent publishers.
W3, CP and a new version of RedEngine at the same time might have spread them a bit too thin, but starting over two times is what I believe that did them in.
Anyway, we are a bit OT I think. I'd rather discuss good RPG mechanics and their implementations in single player computer games, though I doubt CP2077 will ever be one to benefit from it.
So what I think could be done is more options to roleplay as different V. A lot of dialogue options are like 1. "i dont like corpos" and 2. "I hate corpos". Even if the outcome will be the same, I would really appreciate more ways to get there.
The irony with this statement is: alarmingly large amount of people think that RPG = going to restaurants, bars and strip clubs, riding train, playing arcades, customizing cars, decorating apartments and inviting love interests to them. To those people, Cyberpunk is not RPG because it lacks these "RPG elements".
How is TW3 more of an RPG when it has 3 main endings compared to Cyberpunk's 5?
I don't blame CDPR for that. It's a stupid game trope that should have been killed off years ago. CDPR is just following a thoughtless pattern applied in other AAA games that also thoughtlessly use the trope to create a false sense of needing to move the narrative along. Just a few that instantly come to mind. If I spent 5 minutes thinking about it, I'm sure I could double the list:
- Mass Effect 2: The big bad galaxy killers are on their way, human colonies are being wiped out, and there's no time to lose. We need you to figure out what's going on as quickly as possible, and try to stop the destruction of all advanced life in the galaxy. Hold on, belay preventing the extinction of all advanced life in the galaxy for a while -- we need you to take a timeout from stopping the galaxy killers who could be here any moment, because Garrus needs to take revenge.
- Mass Effect 3: The big bad galaxy killers are in the process of wiping out earth, and all of the other planets with advanced civilizations. We need you to build an army quickly to combat them. Hold on, belay saving the galaxy for a while - we need you to take a timeout from your desperate mission of saving the galaxy, and run destroy a Cerberus lab.
- Baldur's Gate 3: You have a "thing" in your head, and you'll be dead in a week. But we need you to run around killing rats to build up your level sufficiently to save yourself and everybody else.
- Fallout 4: We know that you're working desperately to find and save your young son (or at least at this point, you "think" he's young). But we need you to put saving the baby on hold for a little while, and help the Minutemen re-build the Commonwealth.
- Horizon Forbidden West: We know that the earth only has a few months left, at best, and you're the only one who can save it. But we need you to take a timeout from that to run around to settlements all over the west and compete in fighting tournaments, collect resources so you can buy better equipment that inexplicably you lost since the first game; and while you're at it, climb up that mountain and rescue the random guy who seems to have been misplaced by his group.
Let's take an example of what many think is one of the best RPG's to date: Skyrim
Tell me, what choices affect the main story that we must destroy Alduin? None. Nothing we do changes that we must fight him, where we do so, or how we do so.
Tell me, what choices affect the main story that we must destroy Alduin? None. Nothing we do changes that we must fight him, where we do so, or how we do so.
I would give Baldur's gate 2 as an example (or maybe Arcanum) as Skyrim...it has its own charm don't get me wrong, but it's not something that comes to mind when someone tells me 'RPG'
But otherwise I agree with you - hardly anything in it affected the world, but people have it as one of the best RPG of all time.
We are in accord on that.The irony with this statement is: alarmingly large amount of people think that RPG = going to restaurants, bars and strip clubs, riding train, playing arcades, customizing cars, decorating apartments and inviting love interests to them. To those people, Cyberpunk is not RPG because it lacks these "RPG elements".
Player agency. Number of endings are as important as number of restaurants.
I agree with you on your list of games misusing the technique.
Blame them? CDPR choose to use it. It's a potent way of creating urgency. Used right it could be the driving force.
But in CP it doesn't matter. I've been waiting in game for months of total waiting time to have quest triggers activate. Nothing happens, V stays the same. Play through the main story hastily and v will be a wreck in twenty hours.
In a RPG, should not your actions (or inactions) matter?
Maybe then it should be defined what a RPG consists of and to what degree?I would give Baldur's gate 2 as an example (or maybe Arcanum) as Skyrim...it has its own charm don't get me wrong, but it's not something that comes to mind when someone tells me 'RPG'
But otherwise I agree with you - hardly anything in it affected the world, but people have it as one of the best RPG of all time.
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Oh, and CDPR will never change anything significant with CP2077 . That was definitive when they released the "Complete official guide" at launch.
What we can hope for with this discussion is that the next iteration of CP will be a RPG that better suits the genre.
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