Will/Should you be able to max out your entire skill trees with one character?

[Tree_Fox]

Leave one play through where you actually need to choose what you want to invest in.

Then have NG+ be where people can max out everything and become augmented gods.

It fixes all the issues people are arguing about. Dont want to be able to max everything out? Dont use NG+.

Post automatically merged: Sep 18, 2018

Leave one play through where you actually need to choose what you want to invest in.

Then have NG+ be where people can max out everything and become augmented gods.

It fixes all the issues people are arguing about. Dont want to be able to max everything out? Dont use NG+

 

[Harthwain]

What you say change nothing about what I say. There is no difference between an hard coded limit and a self control one besides forcing every people to do it even those which are annoyed by it.

There is a huge difference - because it puts hard limit on the player's capabilities to perform in certain areas. That's why games like NEO Scavenger don't allow you to take all skills and force you to take weaknesses if you want to have more points for more skills. Which, by the way, actually makes a meaningful impact on the gameplay.

Even in CP2020 you can max out some skills, but you will end up not having other skills. This - and the fact that you won't be even able to level your skill past 10 - means you won't be as useful to your team (and have fun by interacting with the world) as much someone with a more diverse skill set.

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

It fixes all the issues people are arguing about. Dont want to be able to max everything out? Dont use NG+

Doesn't fix the problem for me unless I can play NG+ at my first attempt.

Post automatically merged: Sep 18, 2018

There is a huge difference - because it puts hard limit on the player's capabilities to perform in certain areas.

And that limit can still be there for those who wants it without being hard coded, and leave the other ones to have their fun.

Even in CP2020 you can max out some skills, but you will end up not having other skills. This - and the fact that you won't be even able to level your skill past 10 - means you won't be as useful to your team (and have fun by interacting with the world) as much someone with a more diverse skill set.

Actually in the pen and paper there's no limit beside roles and max skill/attribute level.
I you run a very long campain (which would qualifies any open world RPG videogame, as it normally have far more quest that the number of scenario you would find in a P&P campaign) you can max everything (if you survive, that is).

 

[EngryEngineer]

Well that's roleplay, so I have the habits of not seeing the outcomes of every possibilities as I'm also a Pen and Paper player.
Besides, when I had times I saw that even if I play a game multiples times I almost always makes the same choices because I put a lots of "me" in my characters.

And in video games I always try to unlock things that gets me possibilities before going efficient.

The definition of "Roleplay" isn't really a relevant factor here and is too ambiguous to do anything other than cause confusion. For example, I also play PnP games, but for me a key factor in playing a role, is playing one that makes me step outside of myself, so already we are at a fundamental disagreement of terms. Additionally, this isn't even an option in the PnP as CP2020 doesn't allow you to have multiple role-specialty skills, so 2077 is unique in this regard.

What is relevant is that you are concerned with experiencing all of the actions potentially available to every role in one play through, so that you can determine the most efficient/optimized/power-game set you can, and that's your prerogative. Conversely, I am more concerned with experiencing all of a game's content, and not only am willing to play through multiple times, I actively want to.

I don't think either of us is going to move on our opinions, so I think the only way we will agree is through a compromise. I don't care if there isn't a "level cap" of some sort, I just prefer to not max my character out through regular play. On the other hand, to allow you to get to your efficient build through maxing out your character, you will need to have that pretty early in the game. Maxing out your character halfway through the game might suit your interests, but I think it would feel like poor progression pacing, and doesn't suit the arguments in this thread either for or against maxing out like if someone wants to put in exceptional effort they should have exceptional results vs wanting distinct differences between roles. I think the best compromise would be to pace regular play to not max out a character, but allow for people to grind in someway to get the XP needed to max out if they want to, but maybe that's my own bias speaking.

 

[Kyrinael]

Replayability-wise, I hope we won't be able to max all our skill trees with one playthrough. With that being said, I doubt we'll be able to create a character who's a master of all trades but you rather need to specialize at least at some extent to give your character one, maybe two things he or she is strong at.

Different skills for different playing styles, I say.

 

[Harthwain]

And that limit can still be there for those who wants it without being hard coded, and leave the other ones to have their fun.

That's where you are wrong. If there is no limit, then there is no limit. Telling people to self-limit themselves is either a sign of bad design or inbalance (unless being able to unlock everything is intended, which some games do).

Actually in the pen and paper there's no limit beside roles and max skill/attribute level. I you run a very long campain (which would qualifies any open world RPG videogame, as it normally have far more quest that the number of scenario you would find in a P&P campaign) you can max everything (if you survive, that is).

Technically, maybe. But you have to be able to level it up, which is harder when your skills are non-existent (when it comes to gaining Skill IP) and living long enough to max everything out is very unlikely, considering how dangerous the universe of CP2020 is.

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

That's where you are wrong. If there is no limit, then there is no limit. Telling people to self-limit themselves is either a sign of bad design or inbalance (unless being able to unlock everything is intended, which some games do).

I see it as a point of freedom, something needed in open world games.

Technically, maybe. But you have to be able to level it up, which is harder when your skills are non-existent (when it comes to gaining Skill IP) and living long enough to max everything out is very unlikely, considering how dangerous the universe of CP2020 is.

Actually V is already set to be a Cyberpunk superhero, considering that in the Cyberpunk 2020 acting alone = being dead (not me telling that, that's from the C2020 book), and considering the promised size of the game V will probably live a lot more quest than any other character in the world.

 

[CybrisPunk]

One of the best games i ever played was Diablo 2 and Skyrim.
all the builds and creative thinking... i loved it!

i would cry if the story is sooo divers but you can only play one kind of V.

iknow iknow.. but when you can do everything in one play through....

BUT!! i am happy to say that Cyberpunk 2077 do not let you to have all the skills. due to the 'humanity' aspect of the game. the more mods the less human you are and the less skills you can have that is related to being human. (that is what i think, is the case)

 

[Harthwain]

I see it as a point of freedom, something needed in open world games.

I know. I am simply pointing out why other people feel differently about it, and why many games do restrict players from having access to everything.

Actually V is already set to be a Cyberpunk superhero, considering that in the Cyberpunk 2020 acting alone = being dead (not me telling that, that's from the C2020 book), and considering the promised size of the game V will probably live a lot more quest than any other character in the world.

Yes. But it doesn't tell us much how they will design access to skills. If they want players to play the game multiple times, they can set a limit of sorts. Just to for people to play the game with different skill sets, thus triggering different outcomes. But at the same time it could be like Deus Ex: Human Revolution, where it was possible to get A LOT of skill upgrades (almost all of them, if I remember correctly) within a single playthrough.