will the game become easier over time?

[topeira]

will the game become easier over time?

hi everyone.
i guess this question will kinda touch the old topic of leveling enemies or not but i hope to be more specific than that.

i like games that become harder as they progress. a game that starts challenging because you are weak and as you level up it becomes easier makes sense in realism terms but not in gameplay terms, so i am , usually, against enemies that dont level with you. i know this is the case with TW3 but i wonder if the game will indeed become easier as you level up and the rest of the world remain static.

in games like shadow of mordor or assassins creed unity it starts challenging enough and as you get more powerful it gets easier and easier until, by the end of the game, there is no more tension. very little challenge.

in TW3 i completely agree that animals and monsters shouldnt level up. a wolf might seem hard at the beginning but should become easier later on, and huge monsters make sense to be really scary at first yet easier later. But i really hope that humans will work differently.
from the tiny short IGN video i've seen about combat i could see human mobs of humans level 1 and humans level 7. this, to me, indicates that humans can level up, or maybe tougher humans start spawning in the world. the latter is what i wish would happen, and that the more you play - more high level enemies show up. at least so the game remains challenging even to the end.
if, by the end, geralt can overcome 30 enemies of level 10 but the game only throws groups of 5 enemies of level 10 at you than there is no chellenge, and when i run out of challenge i kinda lose interest.

what can you tell me about my concerns? does anyone KNOW how human enemies will scale, if at all?
any thoughts? opinions on how it might work?

 

[huber1989]

Although I couldn't agree less with AC:U / Shadows of Mordor being challenging, as far as I know you can adjust the difficulty while playing. To put it bluntly: If you're starting to have an easy time, just ramp up the difficulty.

 

[topeira]

Although I couldn't agree less with AC:U / Shadows of Mordor being challenging, as far as I know you can adjust the difficulty while playing. To put it bluntly: If you're starting to have an easy time, just ramp up the difficulty.

SOM and ACU were challenging at first. when i started i died a lot mroe often than later. and in both games i only upgraded my health ONCE. so in ACU i would die in 3 hits form a level 4 enemy and in SOM i would get on my knees in 6 hits (of course in SOM that doesnt count because after going down once you can easily get back up and have like 50 or 60 health...).

of course i thought about rising the difficulty, but what im worried is that most enemies will becomes really easy and other monsters will be a fair challenge, since these are meant to be faced later on, but if i crank up the difficulty settings than i will have certain enemies fun to fight while the monsters will be frustratingly hard....

 

[thislsmadness]

hi everyone.
i guess this question will kinda touch the old topic of leveling enemies or not but i hope to be more specific than that.

i like games that become harder as they progress. a game that starts challenging because you are weak and as you level up it becomes easier makes sense in realism terms but not in gameplay terms, so i am , usually, against enemies that dont level with you. i know this is the case with TW3 but i wonder if the game will indeed become easier as you level up and the rest of the world remain static.

in games like shadow of mordor or assassins creed unity it starts challenging enough and as you get more powerful it gets easier and easier until, by the end of the game, there is no more tension. very little challenge.

in TW3 i completely agree that animals and monsters shouldnt level up. a wolf might seem hard at the beginning but should become easier later on, and huge monsters make sense to be really scary at first yet easier later. But i really hope that humans will work differently.
from the tiny short IGN video i've seen about combat i could see human mobs of humans level 1 and humans level 7. this, to me, indicates that humans can level up, or maybe tougher humans start spawning in the world. the latter is what i wish would happen, and that the more you play - more high level enemies show up. at least so the game remains challenging even to the end.
if, by the end, geralt can overcome 30 enemies of level 10 but the game only throws groups of 5 enemies of level 10 at you than there is no chellenge, and when i run out of challenge i kinda lose interest.

what can you tell me about my concerns? does anyone KNOW how human enemies will scale, if at all?
any thoughts? opinions on how it might work?

Who knows for sure but... Although, I would say that it will happen. Its an issue that no one within the open world space has really figured out yet. Players are gaining more hp, more damage, more skills, better gear, and (most importantly) a more intimate understanding of the combat system -- so you will have perfected the timing for dodging/parries and maximizing your damage output.

 

[EliHarel]

There is no scaling at all, and I'm happy. Not even with humans. I don't think you need to be worried. CDPR has stated that even in your max level there will still be enemies who outlevel you. The scenario you're describing of a level 30 Geralt facing a mob of level 10 soldiers is possible - but I really doubt it will be common. It's a safe bet that there will be areas for a general range of levels, and that the story and side quests will be crafted smartly enough to direct you through this sort-of linear progression, level-wise. You won't play the main storyline for 20 hours and progress steadily from level 1-20, only for the next 10 hours to have the story lead you towards areas of enemies at level 3 again.

 

[topeira]

It seems, from what u r saying, that the game will work like ACU - some areas are easy while others are hard, and the first story missions will be in easy locations and the later missions will take place in hard locatios.

This seriously worries me.
It means that if u like a challenge than as u level up certain parts of the map become too easy to excite and as u play the 'fun' areas become fewer and smaller and exciting challengest are far between, and eventually you will have to work hard to find a challenge because in most areas combat will feel mundane.
Also it means that if u advance in the story for a while and certain areas become really easy and no longer balanced than any side quest you didnt take early on will become easy and unbalanced as well.

I dont like this. I didnt like this in ACU and i am afraid this will be the case in TW3....

 

[EliHarel]

But you see, there's way too much speculation on our end here. The only things we know for certain is that even when you hit the max level, there will still be stronger opponents. From that we can start guessing about how many such opponents will there be, how big are the areas that can still offer a challenge, how long will it take to reach level 50, how balanced the game is, will advancing in the main storyline alone without side quests mean we'll be under-leveled and find ourselves struggling, which in turn means we must level up via side quest too, which will still be challenging? Is exploring outside our level-area too tough that it encourages us to stay on route? And more, and more. And more.

For me it's too much speculation.

The game is out in a month. I say lay your worries to rest... mostly because there's not much to do with them. We don't know enough. The little we do know suggests that challenges will be there if we want, and that CDPR are aware of the difficulty to balance the game (and on a personal note - I don't want the entire map to keep being challenging for 200 hours, especially when it's an area I went through several times already).

 

[moonknightgog]

It seems, from what u r saying, that the game will work like ACU - some areas are easy while others are hard, and the first story missions will be in easy locations and the later missions will take place in hard locatios.

This seriously worries me.
It means that if u like a challenge than as u level up certain parts of the map become too easy to excite and as u play the 'fun' areas become fewer and smaller and exciting challengest are far between, and eventually you will have to work hard to find a challenge because in most areas combat will feel mundane.
Also it means that if u advance in the story for a while and certain areas become really easy and no longer balanced than any side quest you didnt take early on will become easy and unbalanced as well.

I dont like this. I didnt like this in ACU and i am afraid this will be the case in TW3....

You should compare TW3 with Gothic, not with ACU.

 

[Rawls]

Two thoughts

It seems, from what u r saying, that the game will work like ACU - some areas are easy while others are hard, and the first story missions will be in easy locations and the later missions will take place in hard locatios.

This seriously worries me.
It means that if u like a challenge than as u level up certain parts of the map become too easy to excite and as u play the 'fun' areas become fewer and smaller and exciting challengest are far between, and eventually you will have to work hard to find a challenge because in most areas combat will feel mundane.
Also it means that if u advance in the story for a while and certain areas become really easy and no longer balanced than any side quest you didnt take early on will become easy and unbalanced as well.

I dont like this. I didnt like this in ACU and i am afraid this will be the case in TW3....

Three opinions:
1. Geralt is supposed to be a master swordsman, and while every encounter would be dangerous, I imagine there are a certain number of fights that would be easy for him. I am not going to be bothered dancing around a group of enemies and cutting them down with ease at higher levels.
2. There will still be difficult areas that will offer plenty of challenge even at higher levels (one would hope). And you can always up the difficulty if you don't feel challenged enough. So there are definitely ways to mitigate your concerns within the game.
3. While it has it's draw backs, non-scaling enemies is a way better option than scaling enemies IMO. When everything is about equally as difficult as everything else, a game becomes boring to me.

So I understand your concerns, but believe that CDPR has taken the best possible path as far as enemy level is concerned from what I have heard of the game to date.

 

[Merwanor]

I usually like it when at the end of the game, there is not much that is a challenge to me. But it should be balanced throughout the game. It should not be as it was in Skyrim where you out leveled all enemies after what lvl 40. Some enemies should have very high levels and remain a challenge even after you have done mostly all the content the game can deliver. But I want the feeling of progression where I may struggle against some enemies earlier and at the end I wreck them like they where nothing. We just have to wait and see how the game turns out.

 

[topeira]

i dont mind feelings of progression if they dont cause the game to be linear.

i would love it if , for example, wolves are level 2 and wyverns are level 15 and that's how it is for the entire game, AS LONG AS these creatures can appear almost anywhere in the game world. i WILL not like it if wolves only appear in "easy" areas and wyvern only appear in "medium" areas. this will turn the game into a more linear game since there will just be areas that are always easy and areas that are always hard, which means that if you like a challenge that fits your character or playstyle than certain areas will start fun and become too easy to remain fun, and other areas will be inaccessible for a while, therefor not fun, and then accessible later on as you level up but only for a while, and then become not fun again as you grow out of them in your level.

things that make sense aside - this is a game and i want the entirety of the map to be fun and challenging at the proper amount even 60 hours in. i wouldnt like if at lower levels i can only roam about 20% of no man's land since everything else is too hard only to level up and have only 20% of the map to remain fun while evey thing else becomes a cake walk....

and if all quests are level (which they are, according to gamespot) than every playthrough means that you will have to approach them in the same order.

am i the only one here who feels like that?

 

[Darkhollow]

I don't think so..because there is monster scaling and difficulty options.

It's all up to you how you wanna experience Witcher 3: If you wanna focus everything on story put easy on and gg..if you want it difficult you go Dark Mode..simple as that.

I play Witcher games for the story not for the combat so I will play on a lower difficulty to experience everything this game has to offer from a lore/story perspective.

 

[Solid_Altair]

i dont mind feelings of progression if they dont cause the game to be linear.

i would love it if , for example, wolves are level 2 and wyverns are level 15 and that's how it is for the entire game, AS LONG AS these creatures can appear almost anywhere in the game world. i WILL not like it if wolves only appear in "easy" areas and wyvern only appear in "medium" areas. this will turn the game into a more linear game since there will just be areas that are always easy and areas that are always hard, which means that if you like a challenge that fits your character or playstyle than certain areas will start fun and become too easy to remain fun, and other areas will be inaccessible for a while, therefor not fun, and then accessible later on as you level up but only for a while, and then become not fun again as you grow out of them in your level.

things that make sense aside - this is a game and i want the entirety of the map to be fun and challenging at the proper amount even 60 hours in. i wouldnt like if at lower levels i can only roam about 20% of no man's land since everything else is too hard only to level up and have only 20% of the map to remain fun while evey thing else becomes a cake walk....

and if all quests are level (which they are, according to gamespot) than every playthrough means that you will have to approach them in the same order.

am i the only one here who feels like that?

I utterly disagree.

I'm OK with some types of enemies having always the same level and OK with them appearing in areas that have an overall different difficulty, as long as they don't disturb this overall dfficulty by appearing too much. I wouldn't like to have many wolves in a hard area, for instance.

It seems that you want a game with scaling, simple as that. You wanna go anywhere whenever you want. That's scaling, that's Skyrim. What I want and many people too, apparently, is having to strategically choose where to go next, based on the areas difficulty and its due rewards.

Inquisition has a wonderful scheme. And I think the Witcher 3 will do the same. The animals remain in the same level, but humans, even of the same type, have higher levels in more difficult areas. The game should provide you with enough proggression to face the last main story boss, even if you skip big parts of some regions. But to the game should also provide some optional challenges greater than the ones in the main story. These challenges (the higher level dragons, in Inquisition's case) should kinda require you to complete all areas of the game, to level up enough to face them.

The one bad aspect of this scheme is that if you want to complete all the areas, even though there should be a few heavy hitters left as worthy opponents, there will be many underleveled mobs. It's a problem in Inquistion. I wonder if the Witcher will be able to solve this problem. Will more complete playthrough necessarily make you overleved throughout a big portion of the game?

 

[Sardukhar]

Go Dark.

Or go home.

This being said, some people just get better as they play. Most of us, in fact. Even Dark mode gets doable, although in CHapter 3 W2 right now, I thought, you know, for fun I'd take on that camp of Flaming Rose kids just outside Loc M? Yeaaaaah. That didn't work too well.

If you want to keep it challenging, don't reload. Track your deaths - every time you die, throw away a piece of good gear or a handful of something useful. That's motivation!

 

[topeira]

well you get my drift - without scaling the game is more linear since it tells you where to go next, even if its open world, and you out-level enemies as you go, rendering certain parts effortless.

i would love it if some monsters wouldnt scale but human would. monsters would grow in their natural habitat so where easy monsters and animals grow that's where it will be easy monster hunting, and where tough scary monsters live will be the hard areas. but humans will have levels to them determined by their type. most like skyrim. so there will be bandits which will vary between level 1 to 10, and there will be mercenaries that will be between 11-20 and will be head hunters of levels 21-35 or something. the more you progress through the story the more hunters and mercenaries will become a part of the world.
so you will still see bandits around, but you will start seeing mercenaries and head hunters as well and everywhere. this way monsters will dictate the difficulty of fighting the animals, but challenging humans will always be around and the challenging humans will always be around as well as the weaker ones in mixed groups.

i wish the systems would act like that or that modders will be able to change the level lists to make the spawns around your level. at least the humans.
Of course i would also love to have the tougher monsters also be somewhat present in areas where you'd least expect them to. i would much rather have a "oh $hit, that is a triple head bada$$ unicorn dual wielding uzis. what's it doin' here? i better run. this mudafucka is tough" moment rather than only encountering triple head unicorns only where i am told they live and no where else.

i WANT surprising challenges that i dont expect.

 

[wichat]

i WANT surprising challenges that i dont expect.

And CDPR said:

Done!

 

[Solid_Altair]

well you get my drift - without scaling the game is more linear since it tells you where to go next, even if its open world, and you out-level enemies as you go, rendering certain parts effortless.

i would love it if some monsters wouldnt scale but human would. monsters would grow in their natural habitat so where easy monsters and animals grow that's where it will be easy monster hunting, and where tough scary monsters live will be the hard areas. but humans will have levels to them determined by their type. most like skyrim. so there will be bandits which will vary between level 1 to 10, and there will be mercenaries that will be between 11-20 and will be head hunters of levels 21-35 or something. the more you progress through the story the more hunters and mercenaries will become a part of the world.
so you will still see bandits around, but you will start seeing mercenaries and head hunters as well and everywhere. this way monsters will dictate the difficulty of fighting the animals, but challenging humans will always be around and the challenging humans will always be around as well as the weaker ones in mixed groups.

i wish the systems would act like that or that modders will be able to change the level lists to make the spawns around your level. at least the humans.
Of course i would also love to have the tougher monsters also be somewhat present in areas where you'd least expect them to. i would much rather have a "oh $hit, that is a triple head bada$$ unicorn dual wielding uzis. what's it doin' here? i better run. this mudafucka is tough" moment rather than only encountering triple head unicorns only where i am told they live and no where else.

i WANT surprising challenges that i dont expect.

Yes. It gets somewhat linear. But as an open world game it shouuld still be pretty wide. Not only should you be able to go to more than one mid level region (in the order you want) when you get to mid level, you're also able to go to relatively harder parts of the easy regions. That can be very wide. Inquisition past level 9 kinda gives you 7 to 6 regions you can choose at a time. It's only kinda linear in the first three areas... kinda.

And there is no effortless path in Inquisition. You get overleveled at some point, if you do most of the optional stuff. But in general you get appropriate level enemies. If Inquisition could pace it well, I'm pretty sure The Witcher can do it, too.

And I think the very many levels in TW3 (50?) will make it "easier" to tune in terms of avoiding overleveling. The 20-something of Inquisition prolly made it hard.

EDIT: And applying the surprising momments should be easy enough. They're OK. Inquisition has a few.

 

[TouPoutsou]

RPG. You level up, you get stronger, game gets easier. That's the way it should be. The whole genre of ARPG in it's very root, meaning Diablo, was based on the concept. You spent maybe thousands of hours to level up and farm the best gear in order to be OP. Other than that, there are difficulty levels. The way i would like it to be:

Normal: Starts fairly challenging, gets sort of easier as you level up on an non-farming playthrough. If you do farm and get maxed out, you become really OP. Not nescesery a bad thing. Being OP is fun for alot of people. Just look at Morrowind or Skyrim.

Hard: Starts hard, and stays hard throughout on a non farm playthough. Maybe it gets harder as well. If you farm to be maxed in level and gear, it becomes easier.

Dark: Starts really brutal, and becomes impossible if you do not farm. Being Maxed is required in order to survive the hardest content on Dark mode(unless you have octupus skills).