Witcher 1 & 2 Ending (Spoiler)

[bukat]

Witcher 1 & 2 Ending (Spoiler)

So i recently finished the Witcher 2 and I've gotta say it's one of the best rpg's i've ever played, eben if there's a few people complaining about the difficulty. What i want to know is the ending of the first withcer game and how it relates to the second witcher.

So you defeat the Guy With The Incredibly Long Name that goes like Master of The Order of The Flaming Rose, but before you do he says something like there's an ice age apocalypse coming and everyone's gonnna die. He made a pretty big fact of it and he said that he wanted to stop it from happening. After you kill him the game ends like that. But what i wanna know is how that relates to the the witcher 2. I mean they can't just leave it out of the second game and just forget about it. How does it relate to the Witcher 2? I could not even get a hint of the first ending in the second game following Iorveth's path

Could anyone tell me their opinion of it? I won't blame the developers for leaving it out, maybe I didn't pay enough attention but i would like to know the people's thoughts on this.

 

[username_2071161]

Well, there is not a direct relation between the plots of Witcher 1 and 2. I mean that the plot concerning the grandmaster of the flaming rose (the main plot) was closed in Witcher 1 and there is no need for it to continue. According to the books that ice age apocalypse would not be a sudden event, but it would be a gradual process taking thousands years to happen. The side plots were what was not closed in Wicher 1 (Geralt's memory loss, the wild hunt). The same goes with Witcher 2. The main plot (assassins of kings) was closed in the end. Geralt's memory loss and the wild hunt were partially but not entirely explained, and together with the "political sideplot" I expect them to be seen again in witcher 3.

 

[username_3501517]

The idea of the apocalypse was a superstition brought upon by an Elven prophet known as Aen Ithlinnespeath (or just Ithlinne in the game). Alvin, the Source child at the start of the game, spouts this prophesy (The Grandmaster and Alvin are rumoured to be the same person by some fans). The prophesy being as follows:

Verily I say unto you, the era of the sword and axe is nigh, the era of the wolf's blizzard. The Time of the White Chill and the White Light is nigh, the Time of Madness and the Time of Contempt; Tedd Deireadh, the Time of End. The world will die admist frost and be reborn with the new sun. It will be reborn of the Elder Blood, of Hen Ichaer, of the seed that has been sown. A seed which will not sprout but will burst into flame.

Ess'tuath esse! Thus it shall be! Watch for the signs! What signs shall these be, I say unto you: first the earth will flow with the blood of Aen Seidhe, the Blood of Elves...

-- Aen Ithlinnespeath, Ithlinne Aegli aep Aevenien's prophecy​

The Grandmaster believed that the world would be be overwhelmed by a blizzard, a blizzard which would destroy humanity or turn them into the monsters you fight within his mind. He truly believed that he would be the sole saviour of mankind and by using the Witchers mutagens, he could make his own breed of superhumans that would outlive this supposed blizzard.

The prophesy has no importance or relation to the second game at all. The first game was learning that Geralt, a Witcher, had somehow gotten amnesia and he was slowly regaining his memory. Alongside this he had to fight the main antagonist which turned out to be the Grandmaster who wanted the Witchers mutagens in his bid to save mankind from this Elven superstition, noting that Geralt doesn't believe in superstitions.

What sets the stage for the second game is in the final, end cinematic of the game, in which Geralt takes his money from King Foltest only to stop an assassination attempt on the King's life by what looks to be a Witcher.

The second game is about Geralt recovering the rest of his memory and clearing his name as Foltest's assassin. The prophesy isn't mentioned because it's considered to either not have passed as of yet or (and this is what Geralt would probably believe) to simply not be true. The only real loophole the game may not have filled is that of Alvin, and fans have speculated on that one for years.

 

[bukat]

Well that's explains a LOT about the ice apocalypse and why it's not in the second game. Well I just find it weird that a lot of the witcher 1 was not really included in the second one. Usually sequels would mention the first game's events but not the witcher. I guess i was a little bumbed down that the 50+ hours i spent playing the first withcer changed nothing big storywise in witcher 2. But nonetheless Withcer 2 is a more superior game than the first one and can't wait for the third one to come out.

P.S. didn't the Master Of the Order Of The Flaming Rose also mention to go south like Letho told Geralt at the end of withcer 2? Perhaps the south will play a huge role in the next game???

 

[username_3501517]

I believe the idea of not entangling both games too drastically would mean that the game is more accessible to those who have not played the first. Whilst you would greatly benefit from playing the first game (and it's highly recommended you do), there would be little problem with understanding most of The Witcher 2 without the first game in mind.

I was more disappointed that importing my own save did very little to my games progression.

As for the "going south" ordeal, that could be something that happens in a sequel but CD Projekt have stated that whilst a Witcher 3 is not impossible, it's not something they're actively working on currently, but you never know how true these things are.

Going south would actually entail going closer to Nilfgaard, which resides in the southern regions of the Continent (that's what the part of the world we play in is called). Why the Grandmaster of the Flaming Rose would think going south would save him in any event of a prophesy coming true is unknown (though he did believe that his new mutant soldiers would defend him from any attack, regardless of the nature). Why Geralt would go down there is obvious from the conversation with Thole at the end of the game.

 

[electrocide]

Grand Master or Jaque de Aldersberg...maybe not spelled right but anyway, he is just a madman. Simple as that.

As in real world u had a person foretelling the apocalypse, followers where there but nothing happened. His visions where true (that of Alvin) which can be confirmed cause Alvin foretold the death of the pair that had to be married, cant remember there names, the fight she had with her sister etc..... Yes there will be an ice age, but you can't pinpoint the time. Grand Master had a vision, was scared about it and he thought he had to do something to change that...a madman in my books. A talent, a source that couldn't be controlled. Thats why his story and that of Ice Age ended with the first game. Just as many mages in the TW world. Scarlett Rodalega casting the impossible curses, its incontrollable magic. Not even a protective amulet could stop the visions, it were too strong. As humans are not made to be mages, its a side effect, there a consequences to many of them in different forms.

 

[saintmagician]

As humans are not made to be mages, its a side effect, there a consequences to many of them in different forms. [/quote
HUmans are not made to be mages, is this cannon?

Just kind of curious. Actually one thing that always makes me wonder in fantasy settings is what determines who has magic...

 

[Charza]

I think Alvin and the mystery surrounding the character, and his potential relationship to Jaque de Aldersberg is deliberately left in the dark.
It's one of those things that might be explored upon in future storylines.

 

[secondchildren]

HUmans are not made to be mages, is this cannon?

Just kind of curious. Actually one thing that always makes me wonder in fantasy settings is what determines who has magic...

I wouldn't say so. Many humans ARE mages. But all of them are sources. Means that they have no Lara Dorren's blood in their vein.

 

[Aditya]

an

As for the "going south" ordeal, that could be something that happens in a sequel but CD Projekt have stated that whilst a Witcher 3 is not impossible, it's not something they're actively working on currently, but you never know how true these things are.

thats because they are mainly focusing on the xbox version of TW2 (and pc upgrade 2.0 which should be about done by now I guess)
TW3 will happen, just a matter of years, our luck how soon

 

[Zanderat]

I think Alvin and the mystery surrounding the character, and his potential relationship to Jaque de Aldersberg is deliberately left in the dark.
It's one of those things that might be explored upon in future storylines.

I don't understand. TW1 hands you the Grandmaster's identity on a silver platter. There is no ambiguity there at all.

Clues that speak to this hypothesis include the dimeritium pendant Alvin wears. Alvin, the boy has one as does the Grand Master; only difference is that Aldersberg's amulet shows years of wear. But the previous hint, that he went back to time with everything, cloths, knowledge etc. explains it. Another hint lies in the mention that Alvin's favourite game is "kill the elf" where he always plays the Grand Master and wins. Also, when Jacques' group comes to the aid of the refugees in the Swamp Cemetery (Chapter V), Jacques tells Geralt that he was returning a favour by saving the witcher's life, possibly referring to Geralt rescuing Alvin from kidnappers in Chapters I and III, killing the Devourer who attacks Alvin in Chapter IV or slaughtering the barghests hunting Alvin at the beginning of Chapter I. In the same conversation, Jacques is suspiciously quick to accuse Geralt of preachiness — not a common trait of Geralt's, but one he must show when acting as a father-figure to Alvin. Jacques also mentions that he knows about Geralt from "a source", which could be wordplay hinting at his past. ....................all of the lessons given to Alvin by Geralt appear to have had a major influence on the Aldersberg's expressed views during the endgame speeches.

 

[electrocide]

I said it a bit wrong, not as in they are not supposed to be mages, but that in the witcher world it has far more consequences than in other games for example. Here a mage can't land fireballs, ice rain and stuff like that, dangerous rituals are needed for something like that to be accomplished which only certain individuals are capable of. Them having magic can be a curse and a blessing as said in the journal entries. It is a gift but can have side effects. Small like for Triss, if she uses to much magic she feints, her body is just not made for that strong power, some are different, major like madmans that lost there mind cause of the power they control or are striving to. Grand master was not in a school for mages, he "learned" to control it on its own.

I don't think its left in the dark alvin and grand master are the same person. As Triss mentioned in the first game, the power kid had could just maybe move him to the future even. When he was so scared in murky waters he just disappeared true a portal. He wanted all of the conflict to stop, wanted to escape it, but how far ? Plus the conversations him and Geralt had during the vision of the ice age made it clear enough.

 

[saintmagician]

I wouldn't say so. Many humans ARE mages. But all of them are sources. Means that they have no Lara Dorren's blood in their vein.

hmm... okay. I haven't read the books, but from what's on the wiki I thought it was implied that the descendants of Lara Dorren, are sources, but more powerful because they carry the elder gene. i.e. the elder gene was meant to create a more powerful mage, and not that it was meant to create mages.

After all, it was created by elves. The ones who created it, they would have been sorcerers. Although elven sorcerers, but I assume sources like human sorcerers.

Anyone who read the books - are they any more clear on this? The stuff on the wiki about this is all second hand.

 

[Rovlad]

Clues that speak to this hypothesis include the dimeritium pendant Alvin wears. Alvin, the boy has one as does the Grand Master; only difference is that Aldersberg's amulet shows years of wear.

I remember myself just sitting there dumbfounded and staring in disbelief when I found that amulet.
Nothing short of epic reveal there.

 

[chiefje]

hmm... okay. I haven't read the books, but from what's on the wiki I thought it was implied that the descendants of Lara Dorren, are sources, but more powerful because they carry the elder gene. i.e. the elder gene was meant to create a more powerful mage, and not that it was meant to create mages.

After all, it was created by elves. The ones who created it, they would have been sorcerers. Although elven sorcerers, but I assume sources like human sorcerers.

Anyone who read the books - are they any more clear on this? The stuff on the wiki about this is all second hand.

What I understand of it; Lara Dorren carried a special gene, which would activate in her child if she got it with a certain other elf. Instead she went with a human wizard. The gene was "lost" for a while, but not really. There were certain wizards who were experimenting with it. The legendary Falka was also a descendant of Lara for example. Ciri is also a descendant of Lara, she carries the gene and manages to control it to travel in time and from world to world.

Being a mage does not mean you have Elder blood. The first mage was actually on the first ship who arrived in the witcher world. How can he be a descendant of Lara? Source and source

 

[username_3501517]

I don't understand. TW1 hands you the Grandmaster's identity on a silver platter. There is no ambiguity there at all.

Whilst I was quite shocked when I saw the amulet myself, and still firmly believe than the Grandmaster is Alvin, you have to take note of the final conversation between Geralt and Dandelion.

Geralt proposes the same questions and Dandelion answers, quite simply, that we shall never know. The amulet is not concrete evidence towards the claim, neither are any other speculatory rumours after-the-fact.

We shall never know unless CD Projekt wish to officially confirm or deny the claim, and in my opinion that would simply ruin the whole ordeal. You're supposed to guess and question without getting an answer, because that's what makes rumours that much more entertaining to discuss.

 

[squigette]

I thought it was interesting that in TW1, just before I killed the Grandmaster, the King of the Wildhunt showed up and demanded I let him have the Grandmaster. I wondered for a long time why he wanted the Grandmaster. Of course, I wasn't about to let some late comer ghost show up and take the grand finally from me, so I killed the King of the Wild Hunt and then the Grandmaster *Hrumph .. showed them!*

The Grandmaster was probably one of many lost descendants of Lara Dorren. He had the visions, like Cedric, except the Grandmaster went mad instead of lost in alcohol and he had magic of the wild kind. After playing TW2 it made sense why the the King of the Wildhunt wanted the Grandmaster. He was collecting up people of elder blood to open the way between void. Brrrr, kinda disturbing thinking about a self-righteous madman joining up with King of the Wildhunt.

This reminds me, I killed the King of the Wildhunt in TW1, whats he doing back in TW2? I gotta kick his ass all over again?

 

[username_3501517]

There's no real direct contact with the King of the Wild Hunt in The Witcher 2 like there was in The Witcher. The Wild Hunt is there because it's a direct tie to the first game; to story elements that tie in with Geralt's amnesia.

As a short note, the King of the Wild Hunt wanted the Grandmasters soul and another reason that the Grandmaster and Alvin are speculated to be the same person is due to the King of the Wild Hunt saying that he knew the Grandmaster under a different name.

You learn more about the Wild Hunt in the second game, but if you've read Wieża Jaskółki ("The Tower of the Swallow", in English, the sixth book in the Witcher Saga) then you would probably already know about the Wild Hunt anyway (I haven't had the fortune of reading this book however, as it's not been translated to English yet).

The King of the Wild Hunt is actually Eredin Bréacc Glas, an Aen Elle. Aen Elle are elves who reside in another world, this is something you learn at the end of The Witcher 2 when Geralt has his final flashback and recovers his memory fully (not in such precise detail, mind you). The Aen Seidhe, the elves of the world the game is set in, are supposedly different to the Aen Elle.

The Grandmaster was never on the Wild Hunt's side, it is presumed that he was haunted by it's King just as much as Geralt was. The Wild Hunt are not spectres but elven cavalry led by Eredin (known as the Red Riders, by some) and from what I understand, their main purpose is to open a permanent portal to the world we play in, so as to cause utter chaos and destruction. The Wild Hunt, through the course of The Witcher game, attempt demotivate Geralt from his chosen path.

Frankly, if there ever was a third Witcher game, I would think we would see the Wild Hunt being one of the main plot points in the game, Yennefer being a possible second (since she was taken by the Wild Hunt, for whatever reason).

 

[saintmagician]

Being a mage does not mean you have Elder blood. The first mage was actually on the first ship who arrived in the witcher world. How can he be a descendant of Lara? Source and source

Not sure if my last post was really that confusing. I said:
"After all, it was created by elves. The ones who created it, they would have been sorcerers. Although elven sorcerers, but I assume sources like human sorcerers. "


I'm aware that there were mages before the creation of the Elder Blood, after all, I assumed they were the ones who created the Elder Gene.

My issue is mostly this - it seems (and you also said) that all human mages are sources. Although obviously, not all sources are mages (cedric, TW2). Ciri, the one carrier of the elder gene who is heavily featured and human, is also a source. But are all elven mages sources? Are all descendents of Lara Dorren sources? Obviously not all decendents of Lara Dorren had the power (e.g. Ciri's parents/grandparents did not have the power to travel worlds), but were they all sources?

Or is it that the decendents of Lara Dorren who are sources, can become exceptionally powerful mages? Because the point of the Elder Gene was to create a *more powerful* mage.

Frankly, if there ever was a third Witcher game, I would think we would see the Wild Hunt being one of the main plot points in the game, Yennefer being a possible second (since she was taken by the Wild Hunt, for whatever reason).

It's generally believed that the Wild HUnt's interest in Yennefer and Geralt both are to do with them being parent-like to Ciri, who the Wild HUnt wants.

Yennefer was captured by the wild hunt, but was released when Geralt offered himself in exchange. It's unknown how Geralt managed to get away or was he let go?

 

[Anwell]

Is there any difference between the Aen Seidhe and Aen Elle other than that they live in different worlds? They are the same race arent they?