Witcher 3 -also- had a lot of issues. CDPR fixed them. They will this.

[bishopcruz]

It is only perceived as "normal" because players themselves somehow feel that it makes sense normalizing and whitewashing bad behaviour by publishers/studios.

It is neither normal nor okay nor acceptable in any way, shape or form to promise Product A and then deliver a vastly inferior Product B, with the notion that maybe in another half a year it might be anywhere near what it was promised to be at Launch.

You wouldn't buy a car missing its seats and windows, would you?
Even if the dealer promised you they would be fitted sometime within the next year?

The CP2077 we got on the 10th does not even remotely compare to what the Trailers, Night City Wire and the pre-release press events promised us — in fact there is a massive disparity here, as can be witnessed by anyone quite easily by simply browsing the "Technical"-forum.

And this isn't just coming from me.
Not only are there hundreds, if not thousands of people on these forums with the exact same complaints and worries, even the "professionals" are now slowly owning up to it, like GameStar.de for example, who've recently downgraded their rating and recalled the "Platinum Award" due to the state of the game after launch.

More it is perceived as normal because accept it or not. It is the norm. PC RPGs have been bug filled at launch for at the bare minimum 30 years, and back in those days you had to download a patch from a BBS or ask for one to be sent to you on a floppy. Fallout 1 and 2 had reams of game breaking bugs at launch, Daggerfall was the king of jank at the time, the later Ultima games, Deus Ex was buggy as sin. And this hasn't changed, lest we forget Mass Effect Andromeda as one recent example. Games that aren't bugged at launch are the exception rather than the rule in this space.

Where Cyberpunk differs is that the release for the consoles was abysmal. And that is where most of the justified anger exists. Well that and the weird QoL and feeling that Night City is missing a lot. But as far as bugs are concerned? I'd say as of 1.04 the game has been more stable than Witcher 3 was, knock on wood, but of course YMMV. Still miles ahead of games like New Vegas were at leaunch.

I do think one of the things that hurt them immensely was actually the review copies that were sent that were far buggier than the current build. Every single review mentioned them, and I think amplified the feeling that the game was super bugged. Which it was when they were playing it, now it is just decently bugged.

 

[Kikinho]

Also i find laughtable the people claiming this game has a lot of content. Yes it has a lot of "Clear bandit camps" sidequest activity follwed by "Take this and that" sidequest activity ma ultimately all is related to a one single thing.

"Pew Pew Pew"

And that's it. Calling this an RPG would be like calling Call of duty a game about Peace in the world.
Luckily other Devs of Other companies are rowing in the right directions something to thing about.

Bioware to justify the utter dumbing down of theyr rpgs were saying "What is an rpg?" yes the same catchy phrase often used to dismiss the fan of a genre of gaming that got a lot bastardized across the year.

The thing that shocks me is that i kinda seen Cd Projekt willing to row in the more traditional direction. Hoo i was so wrong.

Also witcher in many of the sidequest as many seem to forget even the ones that are supposed to be in this forum from a lot of time had multiple choice and even multuple outcome unlike cyberpunk that is just A-->B most of the time. Don't believe me?

You can determine on your choices if Kiera go in Khaer Moren,Died executed in Novigrad-Kill her yoursel.
You can as result of your choice have a whole village wiped out or just the children wiped out the baron surviving or not.
And i can go on and on,,

How about cyberpunk that was supposed to have an huge branching narrative?
*cricket sounds*

No really there is not excuse to defend all the lies we been feed and the state of the game.

Exactly, if they really wanna hit the quality of Witcher 3 at least... boy they sure have to treat this release as an early access in mind.

Post automatically merged: Dec 16, 2020

I feel the conversation is slowly shifting from launch bug issues and performance to the more dire long term problems. That is cut features and content, replayability and immersion. Not to mention the problem with the story, but I feel that is going to be a while different round of discussion when the community as a whole gets there.

 

[prime853]

Exactly, if they really wanna hit the quality of Witcher 3 at least... boy they sure have to treat this release as an early access in mind.

Post automatically merged: Dec 16, 2020

I feel the conversation is slowly shifting from launch bug issues and performance to the more dire long term problems. That is cut features and content, replayability and immersion. Not to mention the problem with the story, but I feel that is going to be a while different round of discussion when the community as a whole gets there.

good. thats exactly what a lot of us have been saying needs to happen.

Youtubers are finally picking up on it too

 

[Guest 4406876]

Exactly, if they really wanna hit the quality of Witcher 3 at least... boy they sure have to treat this release as an early access in mind.

Post automatically merged: Dec 16, 2020

I feel the conversation is slowly shifting from launch bug issues and performance to the more dire long term problems. That is cut features and content, replayability and immersion. Not to mention the problem with the story, but I feel that is going to be a while different round of discussion when the community as a whole gets there.

And we don't even touch the fact that CP77 is in fact a retrowave, rebrand, of comething that should be much less colorful and happy and "surfin'".
And this comes from Pondsmith himself:

From 0:10 secs forward, his vision don't really match the visual style of CP77, that is indeed beautiful and exactly like CP in model design, but with a little too much happiness and colors, people trying to be edgy and happy to live in it..Yea we have dark sometimes, but not this kind of gritty. That's just my personal taste of course. It just looks like The Sims, just with some people going around with metal limbs.
The first ever released trailer of Cyberpunk was cyberpunk for real. What we got today idk what it is. I guess it works to sell mugs with cyberpunk written on 'em.
If I were to chose the palette color and overall feeling, i'd most likely do something much different.

Cyberpunk is Cyberpunk
Retrowave is Retrowave

 

[prime853]

And we don't even touch the fact that CP77 is in fact a retrowave, rebrand, of comething that should be much less colorful and happy and "surfin'".
And this comes from Pondsmith himself:

From 0:10 secs forward, his vision don't really match the visual style of CP77, that is indeed beautiful and exactly like CP in model design, but with a little too much happiness and colors, people trying to be edgy and happy to live in it..Yea we have dark sometimes, but not this kind of gritty. That's just my personal taste of course. It just looks like The Sims, just with some people going around with metal limbs.
The first ever released trailer of Cyberpunk was cyberpunk for real. What we got today idk what it is. I guess it works to sell mugs with cyberpunk written on 'em.
If I were to chose the palette color and overall feeling, i'd most likely do something much different.

this was another aspect i was excited for. but never got that "Gritty" Dredd feel.

 

[Luther_Vandrass]

Nekker nests = random crimes. Monster contracts = gigs (but with even less flavour).
It might take you a bit longer to figure out that Night City is emptier than Skellige.
Skellige was way prettier anyway and villager A.I was less jarring despite being the exact fucking same.

The gigs are WAAAAY more varied than the contracts from W3.

Post automatically merged: Dec 16, 2020

And we don't even touch the fact that CP77 is in fact a retrowave, rebrand, of comething that should be much less colorful and happy and "surfin'".
And this comes from Pondsmith himself:

From 0:10 secs forward, his vision don't really match the visual style of CP77, that is indeed beautiful and exactly like CP in model design, but with a little too much happiness and colors, people trying to be edgy and happy to live in it..Yea we have dark sometimes, but not this kind of gritty. That's just my personal taste of course. It just looks like The Sims, just with some people going around with metal limbs.
The first ever released trailer of Cyberpunk was cyberpunk for real. What we got today idk what it is. I guess it works to sell mugs with cyberpunk written on 'em.
If I were to chose the palette color and overall feeling, i'd most likely do something much different.

Cyberpunk is Cyberpunk
Retrowave is Retrowave

Well, CDPR had said multiple times that this was their take on the lore, and Pondsmith was there every step of the way. Honestly pretty much every major piece of cyberpunk we've gotten has leaned more into the dark and gritty, whereabouts Cyberpunk 2020 and Red strike me as much more vibrant and "comic booky" in terms of feel, a bit more akin to something like Snowcrash.

 

[Guest 4406876]

this was another aspect i was excited for. but never got that "Gritty" Dredd feel.

Yes only god knows what happened to this game

Plus I'd most likely called Perturbator instead of....Grimes.....
But that's just me...of course...
I don't think they exactly knew what they were about to do.
Plus I guess Mr. Pondsmith needed a Rebrand...I understand that...but there's ways less...dumb to make a rebrand...again my humble take on it.

 

[Mebrilia]

Both.... Back when Cyberpunk had a soul

 

[Ðarkstar]

The gigs are WAAAAY more varied than the contracts from W3.

Post automatically merged: Dec 16, 2020

I disagree. Gigs are essentially auto generated fetch quests from Skyrim, contracts were a bit more involved like a Batman Arkham City/Knight side mission. They fill the same niche. Gigs are supposed to what contracts are to a Witcher and they're boring dogshit.

 

[HMorisson]

More it is perceived as normal because accept it or not. It is the norm. PC RPGs have been bug filled at launch for at the bare minimum 30 years, and back in those days you had to download a patch from a BBS or ask for one to be sent to you on a floppy. Fallout 1 and 2 had reams of game breaking bugs at launch, Daggerfall was the king of jank at the time, the later Ultima games, Deus Ex was buggy as sin. And this hasn't changed, lest we forget Mass Effect Andromeda as one recent example. Games that aren't bugged at launch are the exception rather than the rule in this space.

Where Cyberpunk differs is that the release for the consoles was abysmal. And that is where most of the justified anger exists. Well that and the weird QoL and feeling that Night City is missing a lot. But as far as bugs are concerned? I'd say as of 1.04 the game has been more stable than Witcher 3 was, knock on wood, but of course YMMV. Still miles ahead of games like New Vegas were at leaunch.

I do think one of the things that hurt them immensely was actually the review copies that were sent that were far buggier than the current build. Every single review mentioned them, and I think amplified the feeling that the game was super bugged. Which it was when they were playing it, now it is just decently bugged.

Bugs are one thing.

Missing content on such a scale is quite another.

 

[TheBigStifmeister]

I just hope they will fix the performance. After doing some changes, now I'm able to play stable 50-60 FPS, the minimum is in a city (about 49 FPS). I know, Witcher is another older engine, but when I play it today, I'm able to play it nicely on Ultra Settings 60+FPS 1080p on my rig (i5 8600K, ASUS 1070 OC 8G, 16GB RAM). So, I have a faith in CDPR, I'm not angry anymore, I just hope for nice and stable performance.

 

[Puncake8690]

I agree that CD Projekt will be able to fix all the issues at launch. No one is arguing against that, its that the game is as unstable as it is. Witcher 3 had issues at launch as well, but this game was promised to be released "when it is ready". I know it's not the developers fault for releasing in this state, but this is still unaccepteable. If fallout 76 and mass effect andromeda can get shit for their launch, cyberpunk deserves the same treatment. I love cyberpunk, but the state this game is in especially at first for consoles is atrocious.

 

[HMorisson]

This just in from GameStar.de, for those who do not speak german:

The CDPR CEO has just officially and unequivocally admitted that this game was intentionally rushed (so it would make the XMAS sales period*), and that both management as well as the directors didn't pay enough attention to the actual state of the game, but instead pressured the developers into providing a release build.

They pushed for an immediate release, without really caring about or knowing the actual state of the game.

He goes on to say that this weren't in line with the company's values, but... maybe they should have thought of their values before letting their greed consume them.

So maybe now the whitewashing can finally stop.

This game WAS rushed.
This game is NOT feature complete.

Cyberpunk 2077: So will CDPR das Vertrauen der Spieler zurückgewinnen

In einer Telefonkonferenz äußern sich die Cyberpunk-Entwickler zum durchwachsenen Launch-Zustand des Spiels, gestehen einige Fehler ein und verrät,...

www.gamestar.de

*= this much I inferred, he didn't say that verbatim, but it is pretty much obvious why the pressure to release ASAP oh-so-accidentally coincided with the strongest (r)etail period of the whole year.

 

[IskrasFemme]

This just in from GameStar.de, for those who do not speak german:

The CDPR CEO has just officially and unequivocally admitted that this game was intentionally rushed (so it would make the XMAS sales period*), and that both management as well as the directors didn't pay enough attention to the actual state of the game, but instead pressured the developers into providing a release build.

They pushed for an immediate release, without really caring about or knowing the actual state of the game.

He goes on to say that this weren't in line with the company's values, but... maybe they should have thought of their values before letting their greed consume them.

So maybe now the whitewashing can finally stop.

This game WAS rushed.
This game is NOT feature complete.

Cyberpunk 2077: So will CDPR das Vertrauen der Spieler zurückgewinnen

In einer Telefonkonferenz äußern sich die Cyberpunk-Entwickler zum durchwachsenen Launch-Zustand des Spiels, gestehen einige Fehler ein und verrät,...

www.gamestar.de

*= this much I inferred, he didn't say that verbatim, but it is pretty much obvious why the pressure to release ASAP oh-so-accidentally coincided with the strongest (r)etail period of the whole year.

Something needs to be absolutely clear here:

Cyberpunk works VERY well on older computers (i5 / i7) which video cards do not use raytracing. Here I use almost everything in the maximum configuration and I have no frame problems.

In other words, at least they didn't think of a game just for those who have high-end computers. Positive point for CD.

 

[TheBigStifmeister]

Something needs to be absolutely clear here:

Cyberpunk works VERY well on older computers (i5 / i7) which video cards do not use raytracing. Here I use almost everything in the maximum configuration and I have no frame problems.

In other words, at least they didn't think of a game just for those who have high-end computers. Positive point for CD.

What rig do u have? I got i5 8600K, ASUS 1070 OC 8G and 16GB RAM and I'm still waiting for future patches because my framerate is between 49-60 (on ultra/high settings). I can't get stable 60FPS. But still I have hope peepoHappy

 

[gungrave1337]

I was doing this job then, at Launch. it was fun! The rage was..not small. Not as bad as this, I think, but still.

Here are the patch notes for W3. Quite a few features were added later and there were thousands of fixes. Thousands.

I hope this brings heart to some people. W3 didn't start out clean either and it's amazing now.

Patch Notes - The Witcher 3

The Witcher 3 Wiki Guide: Full Walkthrough, Quest Outcomes, weapons, armor, signs, creatures, maps, alchemy and crafting guides and monster lists

thewitcher3.wiki.fextralife.com

Some highlights I remember just driving people -nuts-:

Patch 1.0.4

• Rebinding of all keys is now available after switching on the ‘Unlock Bindings' option in the Options\Key Bindings submenu.

Ahhhh..some things don't change..

• Further improvements made in NVIDIA Hairworks performance.

This used to -destroy- systems. It was useless for the longest time. Still not great.

• Fixes issues related to alt + tabbing and minimizing the game window.

This used to just flat out crash you. Often. Super infuriating.

• Upgrading items included in gear sets no longer destroys rune sockets on said items.

This was an important change to gearing. And much requested.


Patch 1.05

• Improves the distribution of experience points gained by completing quests with recommended levels lower than the player character level.

So, this was a huge change. If you had outlevelled an area, it was now XP wise useless to do quests there. Players skipped whole content because it was frustrating and they felt cheated.

• Fixes an exploit whereby players could buy sea shells and sell the pearls inside them at a higher price.

We see this now, in Cpunk...

• Geralt no longer interacts with candles placed near chests and other openable objects.

So this was a HUGE fix. It drove people -mental-. You'd just keep flipping the candle on, then off again! Near a chest or a body or whatever. SUPER enraging. Couldn't access it at all. People would run into walls and try from outside...nope. Candle on-candle off. Candle on-candle off! Seems small now, but at the time, the hate was very strong!

• Vitality begins to drop if Toxicity exceeds 80%, as originally intended.

Whoops. Toxicity? What's that?

• Fixes a rare issue whereby Geralt could not mount Roach after fast travelling between points.

This was super annoying.

• Introduces a number of additional fixes to alt + tabbing.

Heh. Still fighting this one at this patch. At least Cpunk is fine.

• Ciri can no longer unlock fast travel points.

Ahh yes. How to skip ahead. Whoops.


Patch 1.07 (07.18.2015)

• A new, alternative (optional) movement response mode for Geralt.

This was another huge gameplay change. Default movement for Geralt had somehow passed testing and it SUCKED. Many many many many requests later, and months of work, it FINALLY got fixed! And the game was much better for it! CDPR is stubborn about it to this day, heh.

• A player stash for storing items, available in various locations throughout the game. Stash locations are marked on the player's map.

That's right! No stash at launch! And for months! Like that item you can't use yet or has some weird relevance to you? Haul it everywhere forever! Thus sucked especially beeeecause:

• Crafting and alchemy components no longer add to the overall inventory weight.

Yep. HUNDREDS of ingredients. Yeah. Yeaaaaaaah. And no stash. Good times. "CDPR WHY? WHY?" "CDPR why do I have NO WEIGHT LEFT! I can't even carry my own stuff!!!" Etc.

• Multiple sorting options are now available in the Inventory.

Yep. The inventory for W3 was never great and until July, was in fact terrible! You had to carefully look for everything. Not a bug! A -feature-!

• Alchemy formulas and crafting diagrams can be "pinned", meaning all components and ingredients required to make them will be conveniently marked in the Shop panel.

Finally we could put away the notepads we had pulled out for months. Not even kidding. Gamefaqs website lost like 70% of their traffic, i think! Yeah.


Patch 1.10 (09.10.2015)


Well, you can read this one. It's huge! The October Patch. Just before the Expansion and MAN had they been working on this one. Hundreds of listed fixes. Hundreds in this one patch alone.


I'm not saying Cpunk doesn't have issues. It does! Major ones! And some very....very weird design decision, to me. Like, penis physics but no barber/face surgeon? In CYBERPUNK? setting-wise, I should be able to walk into a Ripperdoc and get not just a haircut or tattoo, but a whole new face and gender! Weapons? I have 4,000 versions of the Copperhead rifle in so many levels, but I can't get a drink or dance in a bar? Or gamble? Or do drugs? Errr...what?

Still.

Still.

W3 started out with many many many bugs and performance issues and weeks of anger as well. I was there, doing this job. People were upset and mad, and often justifiably so. Many could not play the game, or lost saved or got stuck or were plain baffled by design decisions. Yes, consoles were in better shape, (I have no words for Cpunk base console issues. That sucks and you have my sympathy) but every platform had issues with Witcher 3 launch.

CDPR worked ardently to fix and improve them, and they will here as well.


Oh in case anyone wonders where I've been, Discord and Steam have been loads of fun. You all here are a relatively civilized excerpt. With some exceptions. You have my respect.

Also, yes, I think the game is brilliant and more than I hoped for. I really really do. I love it, as a 30+ year Cyberpunk player and Ref, and as a video game player for even longer.

It's an amazing, epic experience. I hope it works out better in the next few weeks and months and more of you come to love it as I do already.

0 trust in that company after all the deliberate lies

 

[Applegamerz]

I bought all of the Witcher series on day one they launched. And, no, the bugs was not as prevalent as they are in CP2077. Maybe i was lucky. Cause when i look att older footage on Youtube regarding Witcher bugs, i have not much to complain about. No were there also a "patch" as big as the game itself to download. Sure there were some, but far from gamebreaking.
I had a wonderful time on 360 and PS4 even more so on the latter PS4 PRO.

I wished i could say the same about CP2077. It may be that the hardware Xbox 1 X does not meet the demand because of the crashes and it feels like a hardware issue. I have installed SSD on both the machine itself and i also run several games on external SSDs as well. CP2077 are by far the game that have crashed most times. Especially when running orin combat with many enemies. Other graphic intense games seem to run just fine.

Sure CP2077 should be 100% NextGen. But the funny thing is that this game was said to be released for Xbox One and PS4 from the beginning.

One more thing and this does not only concern CDPR but most developers.
Their quality assurance are a blatant JOKE!

 

[DOSS216]

Cyberpunk 2077 is more than a game for CDPR, it's an investment. They clearly want to make it their magnum opus, they're planning expansion packs, a whole multiplayer game and TV show about Cyberpunk. They will definitely make the game the best it could possibly be.

 

[Retro-_-]

Exactly, if they really wanna hit the quality of Witcher 3 at least... boy they sure have to treat this release as an early access in mind.

Post automatically merged: Dec 16, 2020

I feel the conversation is slowly shifting from launch bug issues and performance to the more dire long term problems. That is cut features and content, replayability and immersion. Not to mention the problem with the story, but I feel that is going to be a while different round of discussion when the community as a whole gets there.

I understand the frustration at bugs and especially those on last gen, but I think the community is already there. There is a +1000 post thread on the forum regarding the endings which is still gathering momentum. Plus a number of large threads on the romances and generally not being the game PR sold us.

I think over the coming months, as stated by the OP, there will be bug fixes and the game will become more satisfying for people in general, but even then with a better functioning game there will still be the lingering disappointment for many over what the game could have been, in many respects.

 

[Silariell]

Cyberpunk 2077 is more than a game for CDPR, it's an investment. They clearly want to make it their magnum opus, they're planning expansion packs, a whole multiplayer game and TV show about Cyberpunk. They will definitely make the game the best it could possibly be.

Y'know, there's been a few games that planned shows, merch and 'expanded universe' before the games were even out.

Some of those games were: Cheetahmen, bubsy and Defiance. Never heard of them? That's because they flopped so hard everything was canceled.

I don't think it's a good idea to over-invest and over-hype a project that had not yet proven itself to have lasting impact. The same way games over the past decade tried to become 'esport' by simply throwing money at advertising and pro teams with no one really caring. Remember Heroes of Newerth or <generic moba #2908527>? Or all the battle royale / zombie games?

CP77 won't be a net loss financially but it will be a huge hit on the consumer good will CDPR had cultivated over many years. This game is a flop and has no lasting appeal, and it'll take a lot of time and genuine effort to change this. Can they change this? Yes. But more importantly. Do they TRULY have it in them / want to?

Only time will tell.