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Witcher Trio should only give Thinning and NOT tempo.

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rrc

User
#1
I wanted to have a deck without the W3, but I am kind of forced to include because it provides incredible Tempo and every single one the opponent has them. If I don't include, I basically lose the control of R1 because of the tempo it provides. Currently it gives both Tempo and Thinning and there is no reason not to include them. So my suggestion is that it should give only thinning and not tempo.

My proposal is: every card has 2 power (or 2, 2, 3) and the provision cost should be 4 each (or 4, 4, 5). So, it gives only 6 (or 7) point power swing and takes only 12 (or 13) provision points. This way, it can still be useful for Leaders with low Mulligan charges to thin and doesn't force everyone to include it. I would prefer 6 points power swing. It doesn't automatically kill these cards and doesn't make it auto-forcefully-included in all decks.

Even though this would give more Provision Points for those who include this, it takes 3 slots away. I think this is a perfect balance to these cards.

What of you guys think?
(CDPR, please consider this.)
 

_Kili_

User
#2
This way, it can still be useful for Leaders with low Mulligan charges to thin and doesn't force everyone to include it. I would prefer 6 points power swing. It doesn't automatically kill these cards and doesn't make it auto-forcefully-included in all decks.

What of you guys think?
Why does it only give thinning options to leaders with low Mulligan Charges?

I think they'll still be auto include, simply because they provide good thinning. You could even nerf them down to 2 points and leave their provisions as it is and they'd still be in every deck.
Why? What the Witcher trio does for you is use up 3 slots in your deck, slots that 1)are thinning themselves out, so you're basically down to a 23 card deck and 2)you'd otherwise have to put other cards on, and let's be honest, the way archetypes are right now, there are no useful cards for these slots anyway.
If you really want Witchers to not be used, bring back bronze tutors like old Shield Maiden or Elven Mercenary for example. Those cards (and the silver limit) were the real reason nobody played silver witchers.
This would have the added bonus of giving back the one thing that set Gwent apart from other ccgs: Consistency (and faction/archetype identities, something that was also lost in HC)
 

Pruny

User
#3
the problem is witchers are goldcards so 6 points is too low, i would prefer +1provision cost for each.
 

DRK3

User
#4
I totally agree, and have been asking for a change like this for awhile now.

As a disgusting hipster, i simply refuse to use them at all, which puts me at massive disadvantage, which would be fine by me if they had a great counter... but they dont.

Like i've said: they're usually the 1st or 2nd biggest tempo swing in any deck (specially with Roach), and that particular combination of 4+4+4 is incredibly hard to counter.

There is epidemic, but that only works when the witcher trio is the opponent's opening play (rare).
Scorch, but would require no bigger units from both sides. And you would waste one of your highest cost cards.
Geralt: Igni, but requires Roach or some other unit - with equal or LESS points - on the row.
Personally, i like Arachas Venom, which is cheap compared to its value, but requires setup - 1 tick on the middle witcher, so it gives 3x3 damage, which is still less than the witcher trio value...

Anyone with a better witcher trio counter, to prevent that tempo, i would love to hear it.
 

_Kili_

User
#5
I totally agree, and have been asking for a change like this for awhile now.

As a disgusting hipster, i simply refuse to use them at all, which puts me at massive disadvantage, which would be fine by me if they had a great counter... but they dont.

Like i've said: they're usually the 1st or 2nd biggest tempo swing in any deck (specially with Roach), and that particular combination of 4+4+4 is incredibly hard to counter.

There is epidemic, but that only works when the witcher trio is the opponent's opening play (rare).
Scorch, but would require no bigger units from both sides. And you would waste one of your highest cost cards.
Geralt: Igni, but requires Roach or some other unit - with equal or LESS points - on the row.
Personally, i like Arachas Venom, which is cheap compared to its value, but requires setup - 1 tick on the middle witcher, so it gives 3x3 damage, which is still less than the witcher trio value...

Anyone with a better witcher trio counter, to prevent that tempo, i would love to hear it.
Epidemic, wolfsbane, forktail, wild boar of the sea, foltests pride... basically anything that punishes swarming. Also, big point swings only matter in round 3 or in round 1 when youre under 4 cards so just play around witchers at that point/bleed them out before that
 

DRK3

User
#6
Epidemic, wolfsbane, forktail, wild boar of the sea, foltests pride... basically anything that punishes swarming. Also, big point swings only matter in round 3 or in round 1 when youre under 4 cards so just play around witchers at that point/bleed them out before that
Some players leave the witcher trio for a tempo play in R2 to try and get CA, or for a finaly play in R3, specially control decks who spend whole R3 damaging without any units on board, then spam those 12pts to win.

So im afraid your suggestions - bar the epidemic i had suggested - arent that great when you want a direct counter for the trio, as in, a single card or turn, two tops, without a lot of setup like foltest pride or wild boar of the sea.
 

rrc

User
#7
the problem is witchers are goldcards so 6 points is too low, i would prefer +1provision cost for each.
Pruny, let's be honest here. What would you do if the provision cost is increased by 1 for each card? Lets say if provision gets increases by a total of 4. What would you do? What would I do? What would anyone do? Remove a 7 point Gold and fill it with a 4 point bronze. That is what everyone will do. As long as it provides both Tempo and Thinning, it will be an auto-include or you are under huge risk.

It's a gold with 6 points and with 3 (and possibly 4) thinning. So, it is still a good worthy card (s). IMHO, the only right way to fix it will be what I proposed!