They don't feel the same, but they absolutely look the same, so we can agree on that. The only way to tell the difference is to look for the "Type" or shape text. Nose Type, Eye Shape (I think it was Eye Shape), etc. It's certainly confusing and not preferable by any means.
I'm even confident enough to say that skyrim had no presets because I don't really honestly feel that I could prove their existence, since all I ever experienced were sliders.
You'll have to take my word for it, or wait till I can get that video to you. Either way, I assure you, the "Brow Type" 'slider' (as well as nose type, eye type, mouth type, etc.) were all presets disguised as sliders. When you move through the options, they change very distinctly, as they would if they were a preset. I hope that makes sense.
However, I TOTALLY understand why there would be confusion. As we both agree, Skyrim's CC system was hot garbage from a design/aesthetic standpoint.
It's just a very big reason why I like the clear and defined preset bars in Cyberpunk2077 ( I know they are subject to change )
[1]-[2]-[3]-[4]-[5]-[6]-[7]-[8]-[9]-[10] because they're just better in every way. They still have all the functionality of a slider, but essentially the preset bar design makes it impossible for the player to get confused or lose reference point or context or make a mistake, which is a good solid improvement.
I understand. And for the record, I like them too! Especially their design! I just think you can have both. As you often argue in favor of, why not have more player freedom instead of less? Why should I be restricted to just presets when we can have both? I pick a preset I like (which you can stick with and not adjust further), but then I can tweak the size/position/angle if I wish. Win-win situation!
You could make it very easy to avoid, too. Example:
They don't feel the same, but they absolutely look the same, so we can agree on that. The only way to tell the difference is to look for the "Type" or shape text. Nose Type, Eye Shape (I think it was Eye Shape), etc. It's certainly confusing and not preferable by any means.
You'll have to take my word for it, or wait till I can get that video to you. Either way, I assure you, the "Brow Type" 'slider' (as well as nose type, eye type, mouth type, etc.) were all presets disguised as sliders. When you move through the options, they change very distinctly, as they would if they were a preset. I hope that makes sense.
However, I TOTALLY understand why there would be confusion. As we both agree, Skyrim's CC system was hot garbage from a design/aesthetic standpoint.
I understand. And for the record, I like them too! Especially their design! I just think you can have both. As you often argue in favor of, why not have more player freedom instead of less? Why should I be restricted to just presets when we can have both? I pick a preset I like (which you can stick with and not adjust further), but then I can tweak the size/position/angle if I wish. Win-win situation!
You could make it very easy to avoid, too. Example:
Okay good, we're on the same page then. No misunderstandings. Do you remember what part of the video it was when Lilayah said that? I really want to know exactly what she said, so I can hear it for myself and confirm if third person cutscenes are in fact disappearing forever from CyberPunk2077. I just want to know what she meant by that, because I like both third and first person cutscenes but only if they are implemented very skillfully. If what we saw in the gameplay trailer where V uses the mantis blades (arm swords) to fight Dex's Bodyguard, was in fact a trailer, then I would be totally okay with that, but I would prefer it's like an in-game cutscene that uses V's real character model (I don't know how else it would be done, so forgive me please if I'm mistaken)
Yeah, 34:26 specifically. Timestamped below. I don't think she outright says no 3rd person cutscenes, but she says it "might be just that" (referring to only seeing your character in the inventory, and presumably mirrors).
I'd really like aswers to questions that just don't get asked otherwise. Even a "too early to talk about". And I'm really really tired, that what ever I speculate, I basically would have to explain the whole hypothetical game that I have in my mind, which might not be even in the same universe to what we're going to be getting, for those speculations to make any sort of sense to others.
Aahahahah! Oh man. Imagine the questions I have asked. Soooooooooo many. VERY similar to yours, I bet.
I dunno. AFAIDK, the media for the next year is very planned. Very.
You could ask Vatt, though. I'd ask him, but he'd probably laugh at my impertinence, then walk away, still laughing, while stroking his beard. To go play 2077. Again. I'm not bitter!
Aahahahah! Oh man. Imagine the questions I have asked. Soooooooooo many. VERY similar to yours, I bet.
I dunno. AFAIDK, the media for the next year is very planned. Very.
You could ask Vatt, though. I'd ask him, but he'd probably laugh at my impertinence, then walk away, still laughing, while stroking his beard. To go play 2077. Again. I'm not bitter!
They don't feel the same, but they absolutely look the same, so we can agree on that. The only way to tell the difference is to look for the "Type" or shape text. Nose Type, Eye Shape (I think it was Eye Shape), etc. It's certainly confusing and not preferable by any means.
Well, even if they looked exactly the same, I would even go as far as to say that they behaved the same because all the sliders or "slider appearance" things that looked like sliders O------------------------- as an example.
Technically did behave the same, whether some were "notch-y-er" or less "notchy" because you didn't have a clear contextual reference point to know where your button really was on the slider bar ---?----?------?-------?---------? you could only guess visual distance but it wasn't accurate and you could do it multiple times in a row and get slightly different results. That was a big problem because accuracy and consistency were essentially non-existent.
You'll have to take my word for it, or wait till I can get that video to you. Either way, I assure you, the "Brow Type" 'slider' (as well as nose type, eye type, mouth type, etc.) were all presets disguised as sliders. When you move through the options, they change very distinctly, as they would if they were a preset. I hope that makes sense.
I understand. And for the record, I like them too! Especially their design! I just think you can have both. As you often argue in favor of, why not have more player freedom instead of less? Why should I be restricted to just presets when we can have both? I pick a preset I like (which you can stick with and not adjust further), but then I can tweak the size/position/angle if I wish. Win-win situation!
Well to understand how and why this would be done, or if it should be done, and for what reasons, we have to dig deep into the sliders and preset bars and figure out what defines them, and what are the real good parts of them that really matter, and what are the bad parts that only mess things up for everyone. I would say, since you ask, that the main goal here is to provide the absolute best settings possible that provide the most choices and the most freedom, in a format that is accessible, but does not detract from itself or diminish itself in any way.
So as an example:
First we have sliders.
O------------------------------
Why is a slider called a slider? Because it's slippery, like soap! or bananas. (be careful! teh bananas will slip you!)
Sliders "Sliiiiiiiide" which similarly to slipping on a banana, or trying to hold on to a bar of soap, is an extremely intense experience outlining the very definition of "Lack or Loss of control", which for the player is very bad. Why? Because if the player can't control their own personal choices, then by the very definition of freedom, they technically have none, since they are only free to slip and slide around. Being "free to fail" is not real freedom, a very important reason being that it never actually goes anywhere.
Since the player can't control themselves, they can't do anything, or everything they do will be "messed up" so to speak, meaning what they try to do, they will not do, and instead fail, or underachieve drastically, thus- no control over their own person and goals and no freedom. Makes for a bad experience for the player.
Next, we have "Preset Bars" Which are in essence, the evolved pokemon version of sliders. They are still a Length of settings along the distance of a bar, but instead of having a slip and slide mechanism, They are equipped with a clean cut, sharp, and precise point and click interface along the length of that bar. They are also equipped with clearly marked and defined buttons so that instead of sliding one poorly designed and imprecise and highly inconsistent button across several settings that have been disguised into the length of the bar(ahhh for what purpose!?), Now each individual setting along the length of that bar is punctually provided with it's own very cute and classy and highly precise and properly numbered little professional Button.
So, technically and rather factually speaking if I believe I may state as I know, (cause I do! ) Sliders as a term are technically the name of how that particular format of settings on a bar are presented to players, But do not actually change the fact that it is still a bunch of settings on a bar. The settings along the length of the bar are even further so, just simply a General User Interface, a visual representation if you do, Of the underlying CODE.... The software...! Very fascinating indeed.
So This
O--------------------------------
and this
[1]-[2]-[3]-[4]-[5]-[6]-[7]-[8]-[9]-[10]
Are technically Both actually This:
12345678910
The only thing that is being changed is its Presentation.
Here in slider format, 12345678910 in software code is being presented as a general user interface (GUI) as:
O--------------------------------
Here in preset bar or numbered format, 12345678910 in software code is being presented as a general user interface (GUI) as:
[1]-[2]-[3]-[4]-[5]-[6]-[7]-[8]-[9]-[10]
So technically speaking, they are both the exact same thing, But presentation matters a very large amount.
Why does presentation matter? Because it has a defining and utmost important effect on how people/players can interact with the setting GUI, but not just how, but also How well, and how much. (if At all)
So to conclude, We do in fact both win. Why do we both win? Okay:
[1]-[2]-[3]-[4]-[5]-[6]-[7]-[8]-[9]-[10]
Is Hiding inside of
O--------------------------------------------
All that is essentially happening (If that is what CDPR chooses to do, as it is up to them, not me!)
Is allowing this [1]-[2]-[3]-[4]-[5]-[6]-[7]-[8]-[9]-[10] to become visible through this O-----------------------------------
So all of those little " - " between the numbers in [1]-[2]-[3]-[4]-[5]-[6]-[7]-[8]-[9]-[10] are actually the " - " from this
O------------------------------ !!!!!! AMAZING!
O------------------------------ was always inside of [1]-[2]-[3]-[4]-[5]-[6]-[7]-[8]-[9]-[10] All along! it's just that those little buttons can now be pushed, instead of being slipped over like banana peels or soap. before
-------O------------ *slip* OOPS! missed it...
^
Target After
[1]-[2]-[3]-------------------------------
>
[1]-[2]-[3]-[4]-[5]-[6]-----------------
>
[1]-[2]-[3]-[4]-[5]-[6]-[7]-[8]-[9]-[10] Voilà. Like MAGIC!
The first 1-8 options (could be more than 8, I don't care) are the presets. These are the things that drastically change the overall shape of, in this case, a nose. So, just as an example, let's say the first preset is a relatively straight, normal nose, but the second preset (labeled "2" in my image) is bonier, with a bulge in the center.
Example:
The options below that in my image, which are what I would call "sliders," are simply size or position adjustments. Look at each "notch" that I put down as a ~5% difference. So, let's say you and I pick the same overall nose preset, but I'm not happy with the size of it (but you are). I could pop on down to the "nose size" option (Which you could leave alone, if you please) and scale it up by ~25%.
You don't actually have to display them as sliders if you don't want. You could just have them listed as numbers or percentages, which would probably be a smarter way to handle it. Did that help clarify at all?
As for your other points, I think we are basically saying the same thing, but your definition of slider is more literal than mine. My definition of slider is anything that doesn't change the overall shape of a body part, which you "slide" (and don't move incrementally in "notches") across a line. From MY viewpoint, I see a slider as a 1-100% dial of sorts. By contrast, I consider a "preset" something that changes the overall shape as seen in the image above, and does not move along a 1-100% line.
Video, as promised -- ignore the weird noises at the start. Not sure what that is.
Would you kindly, mind providing me with a link? I'm not sure which of her podcasts are the specific one you mean, since there are already quite a few out there.
Yeah, 34:26 specifically. Timestamped below. I don't think she outright says no 3rd person cutscenes, but she says it "might be just that" (referring to only seeing your character in the inventory, and presumably mirrors).
Okay so Lilayah does not say yes or no about cutscenes.
Lilayah specifically states "I don't really want to talk about cutscenes, but every time you open your inventory you will see your character but that might be just (last word can't hear)"
This is not confirming or denying anything about cutscenes, other than maybe CDPR told her she shouldn't say anything yet because it's still a work in progress or a secret. So that's cool and everything, but yea.
One thing Blade and Soul did well was to have a stage in the character creator that let you see your avatar under different lighting, and in different poses and outfits, so you knew well what you'd look like in game.
Without something like that, it's far too easy to make a monster and not realise until way too late. You should(n't) see my Shepard from ME1.
The first 1-8 options (could be more than 8, I don't care) are the presets. These are the things that drastically change the overall shape of, in this case, a nose. So, just as an example, let's say the first preset is a relatively straight, normal nose, but the second preset (labeled "2" in my image) is bonier, with a bulge in the center.
Example:
The options below that in my image, which are what I would call "sliders," are simply size or position adjustments. Look at each "notch" that I put down as a ~5% difference. So, let's say you and I pick the same overall nose preset, but I'm not happy with the size of it (but you are). I could pop on down to the "nose size" option (Which you could leave alone, if you please) and scale it up by ~25%.
You don't actually have to display them as sliders if you don't want. You could just have them listed as numbers or percentages, which would probably be a smarter way to handle it. Did that help clarify at all?
As for your other points, I think we are basically saying the same thing, but your definition of slider is more literal than mine. My definition of slider is anything that doesn't change the overall shape of a body part, which you "slide" (and don't move incrementally in "notches") across a line. From MY viewpoint, I see a slider as a 1-100% dial of sorts. By contrast, I consider a "preset" something that changes the overall shape as seen in the image above, and does not move along a 1-100% line.
Video, as promised -- ignore the weird noises at the start. Not sure what that is.
The video doesn't load for me, But I LOVE everything else you said and I fully support it as a good idea, as long as it's fully 100% optional, that the dials are well defined (so I don't actually have to do any "sliding around" Like, let me select actual numbers and percentages by typing them in or clicking on them directly), and that CDPR is happy with it themselves, and feels that they can implement it without it overwhelming them or whatever. I love that whole [1]-[2]-[3]-[4]-[5]-[6]-[7]-[8]-[9]-[10] presets thing they are doing and I hope that has a huge amount of options like that, and that they all include that [1]-[2]-[3]-[4]-[5]-[6]-[7]-[8]-[9]-[10] preset bar thing, and I'm actually okay with there being the ability to go in and fine tune the dial as you say, but I hope that all the preset [1]-[2]-[3]-[4]-[5]-[6]-[7]-[8]-[9]-[10] bars are all encompassing enough that they include the buttons themselves to reach the possible extremes and things that could be achieved by your "non-slide-ish type dial" so that I don't actually have to mess with the dial if I don't want to. Oh what am I saying. I'm gonna press those buttons and fine tune the flipping flip out of the "Glutes" on my V preset bar options, dial and all. *drool*
I do have very bad memories of the sliders in mass effect games and skyrim and so many others, so I'm just to that point where anything that resembles a slider makes me relive so much pain and discomfort. I can't stand the thought of experiencing Cyberpunk2077 with the sliders that we have all felt so much PTSD from, I really want all settings, (hopefully most of them look like this, [1]-[2]-[3]-[4]-[5]-[6]-[7]-[8]-[9]-[10] ) to be very straight forward and clear and easy to understand. This doesn't mean they can't be complex, I like complexity, it just means I want to know what I'm doing. O----------------- = absolute confusion and inconsistency and scary characters that don't turn out the way we hoped... I have to know the percentage, I have to be able to see and click the exact actual number and type it in if I want to. I hope this makes sense, and know that we do agree
@Snowflakez
I did an edit, please read again and decide if you want to let me keep that lol
I'd really like aswers to questions that just don't get asked otherwise. Even a "too early to talk about". And I'm really really tired, that what ever I speculate, I basically would have to explain the whole hypothetical game that I have in my mind, which might not be even in the same universe to what we're going to be getting, for those speculations to make any sort of sense to others.
It bothers me how much has been axed and changed in a year and everything that they still cannot answer and talk about. I would like to think that character creation should more or less be set in stone except for tweaking some of the 'life path' events. Its a bit concerning how fluid it all seems so late in the game, I would like to think its more polishing and QA. Hopefully we'll be pleasantly surprised.
It bothers me how much has been axed and changed in a year and everything that they still cannot answer and talk about. I would like to think that character creation should more or less be set in stone except for tweaking some of the 'life path' events. Its a bit concerning how fluid it all seems so late in the game, I would like to think its more polishing and QA. Hopefully we'll be pleasantly surprised.
What was Axed? And I don't worry. I believe all the things CDProjektRed are doing are very good things. This is just speculation but I get a weird feeling that it was all "good" and then they said, "well we're ahead of schedule so lets make it"- "excellent"
Would you kindly, mind providing me with a link? I'm not sure which of her podcasts are the specific one you mean, since there are already quite a few out there.
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Oops! nevermind, thank you!
Okay so Lilayah does not say yes or no about cutscenes.
Lilayah specifically states "I don't really want to talk about cutscenes, but every time you open your inventory you will see your character but that might be just (last word can't hear)"
This is not confirming or denying anything about cutscenes, other than maybe CDPR told her she shouldn't say anything yet because it's still a work in progress or a secret. So that's cool and everything, but yea.
Would you kindly, mind providing me with a link? I'm not sure which of her podcasts are the specific one you mean, since there are already quite a few out there.
Post automatically merged:
Oops! nevermind, thank you!
Okay so Lilayah does not say yes or no about cutscenes.
Lilayah specifically states "I don't really want to talk about cutscenes, but every time you open your inventory you will see your character but that might be just (last word can't hear)"
This is not confirming or denying anything about cutscenes, other than maybe CDPR told her she shouldn't say anything yet because it's still a work in progress or a secret. So that's cool and everything, but yea.
I don't know, it wasn't very clear and she didn't confirm or deny, and she didn't seem all that sure, or willing to share on that one (probably for some good reasons) I care a lot about customization, and I also want to be able to see my own character a lot (and I'm okay that it's mostly first person in game)
