Stachyra's take on Yen/Triss dynamic sounds like retroactive explanations of stuff she wishes was in the game. Either that or she's talking about content that was cut.
One thing that really makes me love Triss, is the way she acts during "Count Reuven's Treasure", submitting herself to torture just to obtain info of Dandelion, but in the rest of the game she just act like a little girl, such a shame. At the first time I found Yen too arrogant, but Triss was already in Kovir so I went with Yen romance. Then I went on the next playthrough with Triss, always finding flaws on Yen, it was nice and I kept her as "canon" romance, but always felt that their bond was weak(later reinforced by the B&W epilogue) and missing the strong personality of Yen, then I went back to Yen and that is where I like to be. But hell, just take the two and give me madame Vigo.
About Yen part I agree. It couldn't hurt if she would tell him about her. It's not like she didn't have any chances with Geralt especially that even if he knew about Yen and Ciri in W1 he wouldn't feel any connection to them. But then again notice that strangely everyone pushes aside their topic. So i could blame everyone. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure that Yen saves Dandelion's life at least once in books and he even encourages Geralt to be either with Shani, or Triss. And while many users already mentioned this he never got a hate for it and even if he had it wasn't that big shitstorm like in Triss/Yen treads. In witcher 2 Triss doesn't tell about Lodge but then again i find hilarious that in W1 Foltest mentions that Triss is in the Lodge, Radovid say it too. In Witcher 2 he's suddenly like "What? The Lodge?!!!!! They killed teh kings?!!!! Burn them all!!!!" *evil laugh* Even Geralt seems to don't know who Phillipa is even if Radovid mentions her affiliation to Redania. So belive me when I say that amnesia in Witcher games is very common
The way I see it:
There is no right choice. For those who have played the previous witcher games they may feel Triss is the correct choice. Theres no issue with that as since there will be no sequel, there is unlikely to be a canon ending.
The same goes for Yen. People who prefer her character be it from the books OR the game may go with her, also fine.
HOWEVER some people way want to roleplay as book Geralt. For them Yen makes more sense than anyone else. That includes Shani, Triss and anyone else.
There is no right choice. For those who have played the previous witcher games they may feel Triss is the correct choice. Theres no issue with that as since there will be no sequel, there is unlikely to be a canon ending.
The same goes for Yen. People who prefer her character be it from the books OR the game may go with her, also fine.
HOWEVER some people way want to roleplay as book Geralt. For them Yen makes more sense than anyone else. That includes Shani, Triss and anyone else.
You know I'm glad that You mentioned this scene. For me this is one of the best scene, especially torture scene(I saw it only once though... it's too hard to watch
) with Triss and probably only scene that encourages reflection about what happened to her in between W2 and W3. I'll ventrue a bit off topic here. Let's talk about Witch Hunters. I think that anyone agrees that they are one dimensional thugs and pure evil. But if you want to portray such a group why not go all the way? We have scene with two people burning and two optional scenes with Triss and Keira and pretty much that's it. When I choose Saskia ending for the first time and saw outcome in Loc Muinne regarding mages... Oh boy, if I would tell that I felt uneasy that would be a big misunderstanding. In W3 all of story arc regarding witch hunt doesn't come even close to event that I mention earlier. In my opinion the whole Novigrad story arc doesn't do Triss justice if it comes in showing trauma she must have endured. You know that something bad is happening in city, you see the signs but you can't quite feel the terror of the situation because the game chooses to spare your weak heart and hide most of its dirt under the rug. The same can be said about portraying war but that's for another topic.So I re-read my post and last lines sound very negative. So before someone make an assumption that i dsilike the game i would like to clarify that it's opposite and I would be ignorant if I said that the game wasn't created with passion. While i love it to death I just noticed few shortcomings so I would like to say in advance that i don't want to start another flame war nor I'm going to participate in it.
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That is a pretty good summary. There may be some "in-betweens" - but I guess most of the experienced Witcher players can be categorized this way.
But I believe that we agree about her chances dropping if he knew about them, from my vision of Geralt he would leave after them in the first chance he have. Like he did when Eredin captured Yen on the Isle of Avallach and in W3 with Vesemir. Sooner or later he would have known that Yen contacted the Lodge to aquire info about Ciri? Possibly. Or maybe Yen would have know first that he was after her and she would have contacted him? Even more likely, as she has the resources of the Empire. All I know is that he probably would not play the king's witcher for Foltest with Triss, knowing that Ciri and Yennefer was missing.
Funny thing is that I do haha. I don't swallow very well the fact that no one told him the truth, his daughter and lover was missing after a riot that he dragged them. They were probably in danger, like they were. Yen was being kept in prison and Ciri was running from the Hunt, while Geralt was eating Triss' cakes, once I realized that I understood why Yen has all the right to be mad with Geralt, Triss and everyone else. But she is not, how important is her pride when Ciri is in danger? They thought that they were possibly dead? Maybe, but no one knew that for sure. No one've seen Yen being burried or something like that. As we are talking about a magic world, there were big chances that both were alive. But even if they thought that the worst happened, Geralt deserved to know about their situation. Would be a bad experience, but the right thing to do. All of them owed that to Geralt, Yen and Ciri.
Yeah, you're right. But as I see, it's one of the holes that W1 left in the whole plot of the games when CDPR tried to do a reboot but not really. But leaving that aside, Dandelion don't have a romantic relationship with Geralt, nor he jumped in the bed with him. And as far as I know, Dandelion is not a brother figure to Ciri, nor a close friend of Yen. Maybe even if Yen saved his skin in the past he prefers Triss to be his lover, which doesn't justifies his attitude. So we have very different situations.
I like to put myself into the whole thing, what would I've done if I was Dandelion? I would definitely talk about Yen and Ciri, Geralt wanting or not, because they could've be alive and in danger. Even if the odds were drastically short, he deserved to know and try to find out himself. And if was under Geralt's skin (like you are playing the game), I would like to know from my friends those important events and people.
So yeah, I think that Triss was very selfish and unfair with her friend Yen, her sister figure Ciri and with Geralt himself.
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That's indeed one of the best parts of her arch and also contributes a lot when you're chosing her as romantic option. I missed more of this and of the mysterious Triss from W2, not just her plot but even the looks and voice acting interfered in that.
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Even if Triss told him everything she knew about Yennefer right at the start or restored his memories through magic and Geralt decided to take off, he still wouldn't have a clue where to look for her without the information from Letho (and Sheala). Hanged Man's Tree would be a dead end.
Of course, it was very beneficial for Triss for him not to remember anything about Yennefer, but the way the story is written, he could probably never found Yen without playing the king's witcher and witnessing the assassination of Foltest. So, if you make Geralt end up with Yennefer in TW3, it turns out Triss has basically scored an own goal.
Yes, I agree with you, but still it's only a speculation with amnesia and no personal attachment. If it comes to Empire's resources i would like to know how exactly Sheala aquired information about Yen whereabouts and that Letho works for Emperor. Most logical conclusion is that she knows this from Assire. On the other side if we belive Letho at the end of Witcher 2 after Foltest death Sheala was thinking that that either he is crazy or Iorweth manipulated him. So that means she knew about Letho's employer after Flotsam. If she knew before that both Yen and Letho arrived in Nilgaard together I don't think that Lodge would even consider him when it comes to Demawend. The most logical explanation is that somehow Sheala acquaried information about both Letho and Yen after both assasinations which means that Yennefer was kept hidden. Besides Emhyr knew that Fringilla and Assire both belong to Lodge before events of Witcher 2 so it would make sense to make this a secret before his plan is set in motion so I don't think that Yen could even had a chance to look for Geralt at that time.
And I agree that what Triss have done wasn't fair but that's what I like about Yen/Triss romance. It shows all shades of feelings rather than focusing on how amazing love can be. It doesn't work that way in the real life. Love can make people desperate. It doesn't justify her but we both know if not for amnesia Geralt never would consider Triss as a partner. It's just not possible.
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No, he wouldn't. But like I said, he deserved to know and try for himself. To me, he finding Yen or not is not really relevant actually, the fact that Triss and his other friends kept him in the dark is. I would be pissed if that happened to me.
To be honest, I don't remeber much from W2 plot. What I do know is that Emhyr gave Yen freedom and power over his resources right after he appeared in the prison and made the proposal. Emhyr would probably heard that Geralt was after Yen (and Ciri) so he probably would make his approach easier to help her, but it doesn't say when Yen went from prisoner to court mage so it's just speculation. At least, that would have spared all that kingslayer headache. What matters is that he would have the chance to try using his contacts, Triss - the Lodge, maybe even Emhyr, etc. He would obtain success? Probably not until after all the political plot involving Letho and The Lodge, consequently the Yen's freedom. But it would be the right thing to do in the end of the day.
Yeah, I agree with that. But like we started this conversation, I just don't see as a very logical/natural romance as started from all this mess and lies. Actually I don't know why Geralt doesn't talk about that on screen. That probably happened after W2 when they agree in remain friends, but I think it would be very relevant to the romantinc archs. But what really bothers me is that Yen doesn't question Triss, I know she is 100% into Ciri's situation but it would be even more relevant. As far as I remeber, they fought because of Geralt in the books once, right? That would be a good chance to Triss explain her behaviour.
I just realized now, if Triss kept some flirting and a feeling with Geralt but waited until he recovered his memory to go to bed and really start a romance with him I would see as a more natural relationship, and a very respectful behaviour from her. She would have finally open her heart for him and their first intercourse would be when? Mid-W2 probably, after she tells about it on the ship? Then I would say it would be a 60/40 (Yen/Triss) chance for me haha.
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I haven't read LOTL yet. Maybe I will change my mind after that
I would be very surprised if you will change your mind...you are reading the saga with the clear bias unfortunately...
Did you read The Tower of The Swallow already? These last books are in my opinion very important regarding Yen's character...
Assuming that his memory is restored and he never got a chance to to talk to Letho and Sheala how else could he aquire information about Yen? it's not stated that Emhyr gave her her resources right after he appeared in prison. Bu like you said we don't know when transision occur. What we only know from Yen herself that her memory was restored pretty quickly, but since at the end of the day it didn't matter when it comes to Letho's mission it's not strange that he wouldn't know that. I belive that Yennefer could only contact Geralt when Emhyr gives his permission. So it would make sense to wait for assasinations to be completed. It's not like mind reading is extremly rare gift bestowed upon chosen ones. Philippa and Sheala are not stupid. They would suspect that Lodge identity may be compromised. Or maybe not? It's all speculations but I still think it's logical
You are right that it would be better for for Triss and Geralt to start their relationship after his memory is restored but it would contradict everything we know from the books so much. For me amnesia was perfect plot device to make Geralt do things that he never would ever imagined of doing before. Many people say that Witcher 3 have canon playtrough and choices. Sorry, but for me this is total BS. Firstly, it's an rpg, not action game when storyline and choices are predetermined. Secondly and for me most important is amnesia factor. It allowed Geralt to experience things from new perspective, give him new outlook on certain things. You see, there's no chance that he would be with Triss if not for amnesia. Now imagine any girl except Yen that would be a match for Geralt. Doesn't matter if it's Fringilla, Shani. Just pick one. Now imagine that she tries to be with Geralt when his memory is restored and they never got a chance to woo him when he had amnesia. We both know how would it end. The books aready showed us that. Essi tried. Fringilla tried. But Geralt only could see Yen in them. He never could look at another woman and see them for what they are. Amnesia allowed him to look at Shani/Triss and see them as individuals thus allowing him to be objective. It doesn't only apply to romances. Want to help Order of The Flaming Rose? No problem. Want to be besties with Iorweth? Nothing is stopping you. While Geralt have memory restored in W3 people try to wipe events from previous games.
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The game does not have a "cannon" playthrough per se.
However one can look at EITHER the games as a series OR books + games.
If one was to go off just the games then I think a few endings would make more sense than if the books were considered.
As I mentioned before some people like to roleplay Geralt as if the witcher 3 IS a continuation of the books story directly. For them certain things make more sense like Yen over Triss. Thsts what allot of people say is canon which isnt correct technically.
However one can look at EITHER the games as a series OR books + games.
If one was to go off just the games then I think a few endings would make more sense than if the books were considered.
As I mentioned before some people like to roleplay Geralt as if the witcher 3 IS a continuation of the books story directly. For them certain things make more sense like Yen over Triss. Thsts what allot of people say is canon which isnt correct technically.
I agree with you on this. I usually play it like this: 'In spirit with the books/lore'. And that can only leave me with Yen as the most fitting choice in the game
Plus I just really like/love her character etc.I don't think so, Triss didn't ask forgivness for Yen and Geralt? Didn't she tried to redeem her actions? After all that happened in the books and the evolution she went through, I don't know if she would be that opportunist. I may be wrong, we agree that she still in love for Geralt but she know at that point that she harmed them in the past, and that she was jealous of their relationship. She was trying to correct that. Wouldn't be a great opportunity after the amnesia, to show that change?
I think that at this point we all agree that there is no "canon path" in the game. But, to me, there is a lore friendly path. Which doesn't involves just the romantic choices, by the way. At least this is how I like to experience the game. That doesn't mean I consider my way to play the "right" or "the best" one.
This is exactly how I play, and I can't play it different once I started to read the books. Lore friendly feels a lot better (funnier, logical, interesting, etc) to me.
I simply see as extremely unfair dump Yen with her best friend in middle of all that, after all she did, while she was helping Ciri Geralt was "cheating" her. Besides I think that the plot they used to break with Yen was poorly played, the wish doesn't interfer in their love and the way he trated her was so out of character, in my opinion.
Geralt: "Means the djinn granted your wish..."
He doesn't even look her in the eyes, then both remain there in one of the most embarrassing situations of the game. Sigh. That felt so harsh, even when I went with Triss. Not even a little of gratitude or kindness? With the woman that saved his and Ciri's lives, that is her mother? That has being the love of his life over 20 years? That would die any day for him and Ciri? That must have hurt her so much. Such a rude and out of character way to Geralt break up with her. I don't know why they wanted to play it like that, but when you "say no" to Triss in the docks the scene is a lot more pleasant and he's a lot more gentle.
Geralt: "I'll remeber you, too. Always with a smile."
Look at the difference. I don't want to state who is better but Yen did a lot more for Geralt (and Ciri) than Triss, regardless of that he seems a lot more thankful to her. Also while Yen is represented in that isolated by ice area, Triss is represented surrounded by bonfires and warmth. Coincidence? I don't think so.
While I partially agree it was 5 years. People change, not always for the better. We don't know what she was up to after ending of the books. Maybe she became distant and cold and when Geralt shows up she tries find herself again? Maybe it sounds stupid, but it's not impossible. As I recall we didn't meet anyone from her life that we could call a friend, except mutual ones.
I can't agree about "lore friendly path" because my Geralt was changed after amnesia. He met new friends, enemies and that had influence on him. That's my "lore-friendly" playtrough But even if we disagree I'm happy to hear that you don't consider that your playstyle "right" or "the best" and in that I agree with you 100% and you have my respect for that
Even I agree. This dialogue is bad. I posted already that I don't belive that djiin wish made them love each other.
I wouldn't look for the greater symbolism here. Yes, Triss is surrounded by bonfires when countless innocent people lost their lives so yeah... and about the rest. Yes she did more, but look at it the other way. You meet someone, you fall in love, you spend few years and your loved one supports you and helps you on every way possible. Even after that it all breaks apart. So when you meet someone new you compare it to love from the past? Of course not. I won't disagree that Yen did so much more for Geralt and Ciri, but that doesn't mean that Triss can't do the same in the future. Take torture for instance. What she had to gain here? Certainly not Geralt because she was 100% sure at that point that he would never choose her. You don't measure someone love and loyality by counting how many times someone helped you. What's most important is if someone helped when you needed it.
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Yeah, five years is something. People can change in that period, for better or for worst. You're right.
That's why the game is so good, each player can have their own experience and call it their lore friendly. I particulaly disagree that Geralt would dump Yen that way to stay with Triss, but that's just my way of see things. I see all endings possible, depends on how you interpret his character, even playing with a solo Geralt it's believable, trying to stay with both (like I did on my very first playthrough), etc.
Of course not, I'm talking about gratitude. Gratitude for the things that Yen did for him and Ciri in the past. He dumps the woman that did everything for him like a douchebag and give a sweet and lovely goodbye to the one who didn't did half of it. I felt he went too away from his character, being cold and harsh like that.
It depends. Let's just not forget that Triss was completely condescending with Geralt's death in that whole mess involving Ciri and The Lodge, while Yen asked for them to spare his life and actually died for him in Rivia. So it's not as simple as you said. Of course Triss regreted after and tried to redeem herself, but what's done is done, so it's not even fair to compare their pasts. Like I said, I was talking about gratitude. It's an obvious thing to think that he's more greatful for what Yen did than for what Triss did, that's why this difference on his behaviour called my attention. I'm not saying he should be a douche with Triss, but that he should be more kind with Yen.
Well, of course I don't take it extreme but this is actually how I play. I do just the main side quests during the campaing because they involve more emergencial circumstances and close friends (Yen, Triss, Dandelion and etc). Because it doesn't make any sense to me go after collectible gwent cards, join fistfights, be money hungry doing contracts living a normal witcher life and help any random people who crosses his way while his daughter is being hunt like an animal. For me, the sense of urgency of the main campaing get's ruined by that. On my first playthrough I noticed it.
Well, since I'm the kind of guy who don't uses fast travel and a got a lot of mods to get more immersion I guess I'm just too hardcore. :hmm:
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