I was expecting something far worse than that - pastels with applique flowers or something...
I made a tumblr post about the Triss/Yen friendship in the books, it's quite long so I'll just post the link for those interested.
here it is
here it is
That's a very thoughtful post, Zappy. I don't agree with everything you say but it was well worth reading, and your English is admirable considering it is not (I assume) your first language.
On the topic of Sapkowski's skill at demonstrating friendships between characters, I think he will be more and more respected as a writer as he becomes more widely known. I am actually in awe of him (and I read a lot, and very critically).
On the topic of Sapkowski's skill at demonstrating friendships between characters, I think he will be more and more respected as a writer as he becomes more widely known. I am actually in awe of him (and I read a lot, and very critically).
Thank you! Indeed, I'm French so English is not my first language, and well I just try not to make too many mistakes (I'm not always successful though) :laughing:
And I do hope Sapkowski will finally get the respect he deserves as a writer because these books are just amazing, everything has its meaning and every word is important, I just love it.
Well, I'm sure that even if she have the opportunity to teleport to Kovir she would't do it. You would like to see the man you loved over 20 years living a happy life with your old friend, after all she did for him? Besides, that would contradict her will of getting as far as possible from politics...
When she wasn't in "good terms" with Geralt, the short stories? That was a lot of time before, after the novels takes off and Ciri it's obvious their importance in her life. She even died for Geralt, in my opinion that's the greatest example possible to show that her life is extremily attached to his at that point. If you're able to die for someone it means that this person is everything that matters to you.
She didn't break while his amnesia because knew he was safe and sound in Kaer Morhen having fun with Triss, plus she thought his mutations might have helped him with the amnesia (magic don't work very well on witchers). So, with Geralt safe, she got a more important thing to worry about: Ciri was being hunt like an animal and Yen was the only one (exepts Avallach) who could help her. Yen is pragmatic and focused, she worried about what mattered the most.
Don't jump into conclusions because of Yen's outside, you probably know her better than that. Even though she focused on Ciri, all Geralt's situation with Triss hurt her, she doesn't even want to talk about it and if you insists she will get furious and teleport Geralt to the lake near KM. The cold figure she pretend to be is very different from what she is inside, mainly after the last books. It doesn't mean she don't have feelings and can deal with anything. Her plan for the future involves Geralt exclusively, she pictures her future as Geralt and no more politics, nothing more. Dump her like that to live with Triss would hurt her deeply and that's not even up for interpretation imo.
Plus I didn't said that she would kill herself or become alcoholic , I said that Triss was going with her own agenda without Geralt inluded, she had a 2 years relationship with him and she is very young. Yen was only worried with Ciri and Geralt in the last couple of years, had a 20 years relationship with him, died for him and is a lot older than Triss. So yeah, would be a lot easier to Triss live without Geralt than Yen.
Let's say that you best friend is policeman. Does that make you a policeman too? There's no way to actually check how their relationships will work out. I belive in this, you belive in that. Doesn't mean that we are right. What I did saw that they both didn't hold any grudges against themselves. Yen didn't have a problem with saying Triss what she thinks so why they cooperate? Because of Ciri? Sure, but I belive that they had heart to heart off-screen. Doesn't mean I'm right. It's just what I belive.
And Geralt sacrificed himself by giving his soul to the Wild Hunt. So what? I already said, don't judge people by how much they did. I'm not saying "be ungrateful" but I hope you get what I mean. One person can do anything for you, doesn't mean someone else can't in the future and I'm saying this from personal experience.
Sorry, but IMO that is another part when it comes to incosistent writing. We are not talking about some ordinary magic, but about magic that can summon white frost. About having fun: Yen was trying to have fun with Egan, but he refused. You know why I don't blame her? Because she had amnesia. Sounds familliar?
I never said that she is cold, but that she seems cold. She is far more complex character that some people belive after playing Witcher 3. The truth is, no one will be happy. You can't make everyone happy, never. While I don't disagree that she will be hurt, I strongly belive that she will overcome it.
By human standards Triss is old enough. It's not like the mages are children when they are 30 years old.
That's not what I saw in books and definitely not in games. But yes we can assume that she can live without Geralt and Yen too for that matter. She is older and wiser after all. And don't forget that Triss loved Geralt for many years too. It's enough time to find someone else. She didn't want to. Make of that what you will. And most important: Darker nights and extreme weather are awesome!!!!! Thank you
Hey, I'm happy that I helped! I personally can't play Witcher without them and some couple of other mods, the only issue is to makeall of them work properly with each other
I don't know if I understood your comparison, but Yen wants to run away from politics and she's right after all it caused to her and her beloved ones. She wants to turn her back to the world. Visiting Kovir means get close to politics again, conversations about it and etc. There is also the fact that she is one of the most powerfull, influent and well known sorceresses so she is a potential interest to high society and people involved in politics (such as Geralt). So visiting Kovir often and getting close to Triss means giving this people an opportunity, to me is very logical that she is not going to do this. Besides as was said already, Yen is very proud.
They will follow very different paths, just as would happen if he choses Yen. Triss would follow her own path far from them, that's why she says goodbye to him. Don't think they would have a diner once a month or something like that, otherwise the ending would mention something.
I disagree, what we have seen is that they don't talk about it and all their interaction on screen is about Ciri's situation because that is urgent. Triss don't had time to tell Geralt about Kovir (that's arguable), Yen has even less time, and energy, to confront Triss. Also another fact is that Yen was pissed withTriss cause of her behaviour towards Geralt in the past, so it's obvious that she is mad at Triss now. Analyzing the situation Yen was in jail and then trying everything to save Ciri, which made the Hunt also try to kill her, while Geralt and Triss were having a romance and living their own lives, amnesic or not. Any woman would be mad in her place, even more Yen that is very proud and deeply loves Geralt, but at the same time she's extremely pragmatic and that means she swallowed her pride and is 100% focused on Ciri. The dialogue when you mention Triss' situation, proves that:
Yen: "Come, now, Geralt. I know you, well enough to know exactly what is going on with you and Triss. Now, I cannot say that I'm not tempted to, hm, intervene, but... I believe I'll let it lie this time. How about that? You came here to fumble your way through an exaplanation, yet instead of enjoying the show, I went and did your job for you."
Isn't obvious? It means that his life is also very attached to hers, that she is everything that matters to him. He knew he could die and leave Ciri behind, even so he gave his soul for Yen's life.
I honestly do not undersant what you mean. How I'm supossed to not judge people from what they did for him? This is exactly what ungrateful means. I have to judge them for what they can do in the future? That doesn't make any sense, we can't predict the future that's why we consider what people did for you in the past. Because they proved their love when they had the chance, not becaused they promissed something. Promisses can be broken, what is done can't.
Don't know why you insist in that, I never said that Triss can't do those things for him in the future. Of course she can, I'm talking about what is already done, how Yen already proved her love for him and how she is depent of his person.
Because she have seen something familiar in him, deep inside she still knew that she had something strong with a particular witcher. Yen never liked witchers and would hardly feel atracted by an ordinary one that fast. Following the same logic Geralt romanced Triss during the amnesia thinking that she was Yen. Which I think it happened because he says he feels something strong when he talks to her and he takes a romantic initiative that he never took before, besides with Yen.
Plus they are very different situations. Egan wasn't Geralt's best friend was he? She wasn't playing in Emhyir's court with Egan while Geralt was in prison and desperately trying to save Ciri was she? See how is different when you look from her perspective?
Maybe, but it will be definetely a lot easier for Triss. That's what I said. Would you overcome after losing the woman who you had a twenty years relationship, after all you went through, who you died for, that you have a daughter, to a close friend of yours?
I'm gonna talk for myself here, I would hardly do it because that's something very heavy to deal with.
We are not talking about human standards, we are talking about sorceresses standards. She is very young to a sorceress, Yen is a lot older than she is.
This is exaclty what I saw when she was condecending with Geralt's death because of the Lodge and when she was going to Kovir and politics without Geralt. It's not like she tried to convince Geralt to go with her to Kovir when he asks "where are we going now?". She just invites him to say goodbye, if he wants. She was not just ready to move on, as she was already moving on without him.
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I wouldn't mind if you could share some of other mods
That statement is true, but I mean that it's not like someone else can't help you in the fufture. But as you said we can't predict it.
What else she had to do? She tried to be with Geralt and she lost. Instead of adressing her feelings she just try to hide what she feels as best as she can. That's why I love facial expressions in this game. They show so much that is not said.
You know we could discuss it again and again but I think we would never found a middle ground if it comes to Yen/Triss. Personally I really like both characters very much. While i have certain preferences I think both Triss and Yen are misunderstood. Triss is driven by her idealism and try her best to make a difference and because of that she is often manipulated. Then she really wants to undo her mistakes by her own and it's when the accusations starts that she is manipulative etc. The same applies to Yen. Many people say that she is bitchy and so on. People fail to see that she is worried to death about her daughter (I can't blame her for that), and after Ciri is found she seems more relaxed, more calm. She is driven by her love and she is willing to do everything to make her daughter safe and yet we often can hear that she is a bad person. As I mentioned some posts ago I tried both romance arcs and they were really well written. If it comes to the post- game interactions I'm trying to be open-minded here. Person A will befriend Person B, yeah... in the end it doesn't really matter. Every person has right to interpent it to his/her liking until (for example: Witcher 4) will make some events canon. Besides everything is possible. Lastly, both Yen and Triss have done some bad things in the past. What's the problem here? Everyone on Earth did something bad in his/her life at least once. We often make certain choices while being driven by our feelings and because of that we fail to see the wrongness of our actions. Doesn't mean that we are evil.
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Something that I missed on my last replie...
I would also like to add the way (including tone voice and facial expression) that Yen mentions Triss in Vizima and how things goes in Kaer Morhen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBhdsMDDmgI (On 17:30)
Yennefer: "All we have in Novigrad are unconfirmed reports, rumors, but there you'll have the help of our mutual acquaintance... Triss Merigold, apparently she's got a cozy flat on the main square."
Not "friend" or something more kind. Looking at her facial expression and tone voice she doens't seem happy to talk about her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emKBbzqtISA On 1:04:38
Geralt: "Seem to take that pretty well."
Triss: "Or wants us to think she did."
Looking the way Yen acts, what she said to Geralt and knowing her it's obvious that Triss is right.
---------- Updated at 07:40 PM ----------
Well, after they just kissed? There was something going on between them there and that was an opportunity. But I understand why she did nothing.
I'm very, very curious to see how that goes actually. Unortunatelly we'll have to wait a lot.
I definetely agree with you and I don't want to pass the image that I hate Triss, like I said more than once, not at all. I think she is a valid romance option, imo. I'm just pointing all the facts why I personaly prefer Yen over Triss, any day and hour.
Don't think the moderators would be very happy if I share it here with you, but I'll include in the middle of my posts. Just give me a min.
I would also like to add the way (including tone voice and facial expression) that Yen mentions Triss in Vizima and how things goes in Kaer Morhen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBhdsMDDmgI (On 17:30)
Yennefer: "All we have in Novigrad are unconfirmed reports, rumors, but there you'll have the help of our mutual acquaintance... Triss Merigold, apparently she's got a cozy flat on the main square."
Not "friend" or something more kind. Looking at her facial expression and tone voice she doens't seem happy to talk about her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emKBbzqtISA On 1:04:38
Geralt: "Seem to take that pretty well."
Triss: "Or wants us to think she did."
Looking the way Yen acts, what she said to Geralt and knowing her it's obvious that Triss is right.
---------- Updated at 07:40 PM ----------
Well, after they just kissed? There was something going on between them there and that was an opportunity. But I understand why she did nothing.
I'm very, very curious to see how that goes actually. Unortunatelly we'll have to wait a lot.
I definetely agree with you and I don't want to pass the image that I hate Triss, like I said more than once, not at all. I think she is a valid romance option, imo. I'm just pointing all the facts why I personaly prefer Yen over Triss, any day and hour.
Don't think the moderators would be very happy if I share it here with you, but I'll include in the middle of my posts.
Just give me a min.
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It's your interpretation and I respect that. If it's right or wrong is not for me to say (although you may be right). With that said I think we can move on. There were so many threads about Yen/Triss that I think every possible interpretation was already posted.
I don't see that as open to interpretation knowing what Yen said to Geralt, it's a matter of logic in my opinion...
I can't read people thoughts and with all that happened It's hard to say what Yen thinks about that. With that said I agree that she surely hides what she feels. Shame that in-game we can't have a serious talk about it with Yen/Triss.
About hiding feelings. Let me rephrase this. She's definitly not okay with that and the dialogues you quoted are showing that, but she surely tries to control herself. Or maybe really she talked with Triss off-screen. But as I said we can't know this for sure so let's drop that. Of course I hope that you'll reply to me and accidentaly mention some mods that you particularly like
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I believe they made those Triss expressions so that more people would choose Triss (to balance it out), yet did actually maybe too good job at it. However, some Yen expressions were excellent as well. I mean, just look at this face, for example (well, face+voice, in fact.. "I'm just.. resting my eyes") :
https://postimg.org/image/b8yr97cfx/
:https://postimg.org/image/b8yr97cfx/
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I think they've made Yennefer very 'right' and I do love the funny 'resting my eyes' scene - poor woman. But she doesn't give the appearance of appreciating Geralt that Triss gives (in the game not the books). There aren't enough friendly, relieved hugs at crucial moments and she's always ready to bite his head off, poor chap.
Wel Geralt isn't exactly a poor bb lol. He is a Witcher, not a cry baby (maybe more like a whine baby) xD
no, but the game does show his romantic, laid back side with his later interactions with Triss. Especially from the fountain scene through the scene before the last battle. With Yenn, its more intellectual sparring, but no real passion/intimacy (talking game only here, and towards the end of the game). I did like her facial expression during the tent scene while she waited for his response on if he'd go away with her though. And my favorite Yen scene was on the boat, when she's watching Ciri and Geralt laughing. Her expression there was subtle but powerful on many fronts.
The facial expressions are awesome, but they did lose some with Yenn. You get the feeling that she's just not into Geralt as much as he is into her (game, not book). With Triss, its the complete opposite. I wish they had a scene or two where Yen actually 'fights' for Geralt, whether confronting triss, or some dialogue with Geralt to make it clear where she stands (like the books). The books had a whole section where there was no misunderstanding on how Yen felt about Geralt, and Triss's attempt to steal him from her...