Yenn - Invocation needs a nerf

[yeahalright]

Invo is fundamentally a tall punish card. Sure, it "steals" the card, but that only matters if the card itself is good.

Play a wide deck, and not a tall deck, and you'll crush Assimilate NG decks. They will be copying insects and invo'ing a scorpian just for the small tall punish value.

The card is definitely not OP... it's good at tall punish, and terrible against low, wide decks. No idea why anyone would think this is unfair.

 

[Philido]

Invo is fundamentally a tall punish card. Sure, it "steals" the card, but that only matters if the card itself is good.

Play a wide deck, and not a tall deck, and you'll crush Assimilate NG decks. They will be copying insects and invo'ing a scorpian just for the small tall punish value.

The card is definitely not OP... it's good at tall punish, and terrible against low, wide decks. No idea why anyone would think this is unfair.

People also tend to forget that you are playing the opponent's card INSTEAD of one of your own cards. That means you may be missing one of your, maybe even more important, gold cards. There's really no target for Yenvo that would completely break the game aside from Terranova, but that's only problematic in the NG mirror matches.

 

[Barracuda88]

Invo is fundamentally a tall punish card. Sure, it "steals" the card, but that only matters if the card itself is good.

Play a wide deck, and not a tall deck, and you'll crush Assimilate NG decks. They will be copying insects and invo'ing a scorpian just for the small tall punish value.

The card is definitely not OP... it's good at tall punish, and terrible against low, wide decks. No idea why anyone would think this is unfair.

Yes, the card is fair, because you can play one or two off-meta, powercrept decks that give it no good targets. Just basically don't ever play anything tall and you'll be fine. Who could possibly think this is unfair? Except even the insects relay on Glusty, and while going wide inconveniences Yenvo somewhat, it's certainly not any kind of hard counter against Assimilate, because Assimilate is not a control deck. Not that this thread is about Assimilate or anything.

 

[KaynOfNosgoth]

Invo is fundamentally a tall punish card. Sure, it "steals" the card, but that only matters if the card itself is good.

Play a wide deck, and not a tall deck, and you'll crush Assimilate NG decks. They will be copying insects and invo'ing a scorpian just for the small tall punish value.

The card is definitely not OP... it's good at tall punish, and terrible against low, wide decks. No idea why anyone would think this is unfair.

Right. I'll go ahead and build a Insectoid deck and play only that to get around Invo. Silly me, the solution was so simple but i was playing witches and vampires this whole time and that's why i had problems with that card.

People also tend to forget that you are playing the opponent's card INSTEAD of one of your own cards. That means you may be missing one of your, maybe even more important, gold cards. There's really no target for Yenvo that would completely break the game aside from Terranova, but that's only problematic in the NG mirror matches.

I never understood the argument of " you have to play the opponents card instead of your own gold". Then don't add invo and add another gold card? Who is forcing you to add that to your deck? No. You add it BECAUSE you want to counter the enemy's good cards and play them yourself.

 

[quintivarium]

I think most (not all, but most) issues with Yennefer’s Invocation are not with the card itself, but with general game balance.

Opponents of the card complain that Yenvo removes too much value too cheaply — and they are right. They complain that too much value is then obtained by NG then replaying the card — and often they are again correct.

Supporters of Yenvo claim the card is needed to counter balance extremely greedy strategies — and they, too, are are absolutely correct. They say it is needed to remove the ridiculous power cards NG often faces without a lot of big finishers/engines themselves — and this is also generally correct.

But I would argue both positions are accurate reflections of a meta totally focused upon a small handful of extremely high potential cards, with extensive and excessive removal to “counter” these “remove or lose” cards.

And the result is there is little player agency as winning is about who draws the most big cards. There is typically little strategy as there is little on the board to interact with.

The simple fact is one should NEVER fear an opponent playing a card chosen to synergize with your deck — the entire notion that a card stolen from another deck could EVER have as much value as one chosen to support your deck shows the game’s unhealthy state.

 

[ShinAkira00]

I think most (not all, but most) issues with Yennefer’s Invocation are not with the card itself, but with general game balance.

Opponents of the card complain that Yenvo removes too much value too cheaply — and they are right. They complain that too much value is then obtained by NG then replaying the card — and often they are again correct.

Supporters of Yenvo claim the card is needed to counter balance extremely greedy strategies — and they, too, are are absolutely correct. They say it is needed to remove the ridiculous power cards NG often faces without a lot of big finishers/engines themselves — and this is also generally correct.

But I would argue both positions are accurate reflections of a meta totally focused upon a small handful of extremely high potential cards, with extensive and excessive removal to “counter” these “remove or lose” cards.

And the result is there is little player agency as winning is about who draws the most big cards. There is typically little strategy as there is little on the board to interact with.

The simple fact is one should NEVER fear an opponent playing a card chosen to synergize with your deck — the entire notion that a card stolen from another deck could EVER have as much value as one chosen to support your deck shows the game’s unhealthy state.

Frankly I've yet to see any merit to the argument that yenvo is needed to remove powerful cards. Every faction has to deal with powerful cards not just NG. They don't have finishers? Well we don't have cheap locks, tutors and removal.

Removal and control is always more valuable than boosts so the argument that NG is somehow helpless doesn't hold up. When other factions ask for more control cards the same NG players come out the woodworks saying no...that's NG's "theme". I find that very few NG players argue in good faith.

 

[quintivarium]

Removal and control is always more valuable than boosts

This is not (and definitely should not) be true. Boost is almost always under your control — you gain value based upon your play. Damage (and other types of control) depend entirely upon your opponent’s play to obtain value. In a healthy game state, your success should depend open your play and your cards — not your opponent’s. The fact that anyone argues otherwise is evidence of how disproportionate engines and removals have become.

 

[KaynOfNosgoth]

This is not (and definitely should not) be true. Boost is almost always under your control — you gain value based upon your play. Damage (and other types of control) depend entirely upon your opponent’s play to obtain value. In a healthy game state, your success should depend open your play and your cards — not your opponent’s. The fact that anyone argues otherwise is evidence of how disproportionate engines and removals have become.

While i understand your point, i think there can be an argument made for the Removal over Boost as well. For example, if you have like 3-4 Vitality points that needs to proc and your unit is at 5 strenght, technically that unit will be a 9 point over 4 turns, right? BUT if you kill that unit with a card like... let's say Alzur's Thunder before it got a chance to grow, in that case removal was better than boost.

OR, and here's another example, you invest a whole round into buffing your Aglais (handbuffing) to get her to a juicy 50 points and win the round (but you didn't get last play) just to get her removed by Invo (any removal would do to make my point but i wanna stay on topic). In this case, again, while you're right that those boosts were under my control and i could choose what to buff and those were guaranteed points i still wasted a whole round (9 cards) to just be beaten by 1 card.

Same can be said for any engine. If we're talking engines then yes, control is better than boosts.

 

[Barracuda88]

This is not (and definitely should not) be true. Boost is almost always under your control — you gain value based upon your play. Damage (and other types of control) depend entirely upon your opponent’s play to obtain value. In a healthy game state, your success should depend open your play and your cards — not your opponent’s. The fact that anyone argues otherwise is evidence of how disproportionate engines and removals have become.

The reason this is true is that it's a lot easier to counter boost point via damage, reset, destroy, banish, while on the other hand countering damage and removal is a lot harder. In general, unless facing true unitless, it's always more profitable and safer if your value is earned on the opponent's side of the board. This is why damage engines are generally better than boost engines.

 

[Philido]

Right. I'll go ahead and build a Insectoid deck and play only that to get around Invo. Silly me, the solution was so simple but i was playing witches and vampires this whole time and that's why i had problems with that card.

I never understood the argument of " you have to play the opponents card instead of your own gold". Then don't add invo and add another gold card? Who is forcing you to add that to your deck? No. You add it BECAUSE you want to counter the enemy's good cards and play them yourself.

No, NG wants to play Invo because of the tall punish ability and the few points you MAY get through Assimilate. And yeah, in a few occasions, players actually want to play the card because it's strong. But please, please don't tell me that it's an overpowered mechanic to invo a defender and play it with Joachim (which costs a whopping 19 provisions) which is likely to die right away because of the abundance of tall punish around. And the way NG is designed, it HAS to get through the defender, no matter what. Again, it's perfectly fine that NG, as a control faction, can deal with defenders slightly better than others. On the other hand, they can't resurrect their three strongest units from the graveyard within just one turn or out-value NR in a long round only using engines.

 

[Sensimilius]

Invo is fundamentally a tall punish card. Sure, it "steals" the card, but that only matters if the card itself is good.

Play a wide deck, and not a tall deck, and you'll crush Assimilate NG decks. They will be copying insects and invo'ing a scorpian just for the small tall punish value.

The card is definitely not OP... it's good at tall punish, and terrible against low, wide decks. No idea why anyone would think this is unfair.

Play wide = get your rows clogged by NG spies, lose soon after.
There's a reason MO swarm isn't played often, it's just not so good (not just vs NG, against other factions as well), their stuff can get wiped before it get's to be buffed.

 

[Fargothwave]

Frankly I've yet to see any merit to the argument that yenvo is needed to remove powerful cards. Every faction has to deal with powerful cards not just NG. They don't have finishers? Well we don't have cheap locks, tutors and removal.

Removal and control is always more valuable than boosts so the argument that NG is somehow helpless doesn't hold up. When other factions ask for more control cards the same NG players come out the woodworks saying no...that's NG's "theme". I find that very few NG players argue in good faith.

NR has duels and boardwipe engines, SY and SK both crap out damage, SC easily pack a bunch of rather hard removals since their points usually come from a few powerplays and they want to play specials anyway, because of Gord and Whisperers. All of them get some kind of guaranteed points from it, because unlike Invo, Seltkirk, Whoreson and Forest Protector are, you know, units - and may get further value from like bounties and Gord and whatnot...whereas playing Invo does virtually nothing for you on its own without another card to tutor the stolen unit. And the benefits of playing a stolen unit over one of your own are unlikely to be more than 5 points of Seltkirk. Yes, Invo is technically much harder removal, but it's not like people instantly go tall much these days, so it's not very important most of the time. Maybe against Kelly it is. And NG don't have the same kind of points that other factions do nowadays, so... Invo isn't even that great. And you indeed need it more than other factions, not because of "theme" or anything, but just because if you don't, you may get tempo bullied or completely countered with a defender very easily, which wouldn't be that much of a problem for another faction, as everyone else has much easier time doing the slammy-slammy thing.

upd: I know I didn't mention MO whatsoever, yes, they suck. But considering the points they have, good removal would be a final straw. And I'm not inclined to empathize with them after a season of triple Gerni and Kelly cheese.

 

[Barracuda88]

You also didn't mention the fact that NG has "units" for removal too, making it sound like Invo is their only removal option, which is pretty far from the truth. About as far, I would say, as the statement how NG, "nowadays," don't have the points of other factions. Last time I checked, long round Assimilate could outpoint damn near anything, while having enough control to prevent that triple Gerni or Kelly cheese. And while other factions do have removal, none of it is instant, unrestricted, requiring no setup AND including graveyard hate at the same time, all for 9p. And thanks for including ST in that list, but rebukes aren't quite on the level. That big, meaty, Gord-buffing, 5-point Forest Protector can't remove anything shielded, or armored, or, you know, above 5 points of pure, unprotected meat. Anyway, in over 300 posts, this thread has said everything there is to say on the subject, and more than once.

Bottom line is, Yenvo is too cheap and too good, and that's why it's probably the MOST autoinclude faction card in the game.

 

[Fargothwave]

You also didn't mention the fact that NG has "units" for removal too, making it sound like Invo is their only removal option, which is pretty far from the truth.

Vilgefortz - involves a chance to shoot yourself in the foot. True, this can also go your way, but good decks aren't supposed to be highrolly in their critical plays. Either way, gives some of the lost value back to your opponent, unlike Duels or bounty engines.
VVM - more expensive than duels, has smaller body and involves a status condition, too
Leo Bonhart - tall punish that doesn't do anything against defenders or patience engines
Rience requires you to pretty much build a deck around him and is pretty much unusable outside of TD

All in all, there's a good reason you don't see these guys as much. And if NG people ever go for a 2nd hard nuke, it's always Heatwave, not these cards. They're kind of bad, compared to what other factions have for these purposes.

About as far, I would say, as the statement how NG, "nowadays," don't have the points of other factions. Last time I checked, long round Assimilate could outpoint damn near anything, while having enough control to prevent that triple Gerni or Kelly cheese.

Pick one. Either have enough control to deal with Gerni, or outpoint anything in a long round. Assimilate can't really do both, because it's already a hyperpolarized deck, and if you have a Heatwave on top of Invo, you still only have two hard removals without a body - which oftentimes isn't enough, especially against MO or seeing how everything NR or SY play is a threat - while sacrificing something as important as Joachim (which, incidentally, makes your YI worse). Whereas SY or Siege could quite literally wipe your board - even the Assimilate setup, as it's ultimately all engines or payoff cards - and have a hefty brick of points after the fact.

Granted, "two hard removals" would be a lot if you could also play Diviners or Assassinations. Too bad you can't, since your provisions are tight, plus clogged Vigo is never a good time (and assass sucks anyway).


Also good of you to mention a long round specifically. Not only can you be decently matched by a bunch of archetypes there, getting that far is kinda problematic, what with half your deck being unplayable r1 and not having many good pointslam options outside of Joachim or Braathens, who are expensive, and let's be honest, you probably play Heatwave instead of the former.

And while other factions do have removal, none of it is instant, unrestricted, requiring no setup AND including graveyard hate at the same time, all for 9p. And thanks for including ST in that list, but rebukes aren't quite on the level. That big, meaty, Gord-buffing, 5-point Forest Protector can't remove anything shielded, or armored, or, you know, above 5 points of pure, unprotected meat. Anyway, in over 300 posts, this thread has said everything there is to say on the subject, and more than once.

True, but also - SC. depending on the archetype, play a bunch of bombs, CoL's and probably some more spells from the Sorcs. Lower ceiling, yes, but also can answer a lot more stuff and still probably have a heatwave. So...2 hard removals vs. 1 hard removal + a bunch of decent removal, which is generally better, except against a cheesy deck. Just remember how absolutely awful it feels to play against the precision strike - and they mainly play measely rebukes and bombs, so...

Bottom line is, Yenvo is too cheap and too good, and that's why it's probably the MOST autoinclude faction card in the game.

Wrong. That would be Amphibious Assault and Freakshow.
Whereas NG at least can't really run it in Tactical Decision and sometimes replaces it with a Heatwave instead.

But sure, it's too cheap and too good. I actually agree with this point. Stealing a 30 points Melusine shouldn't be possible. Except without such a card, the game where freaking Triple Gerni is a strategy that exists (feel free to replace with Alumni, Vamps or you know, a highly replayable 30 points Melusine), would be unplayable for NG, for the lack of other good gold options and complete lack of good damage pings/bronze removal.

Granted, pure spies are almost playable, but aren't quite there yet. Even then, it's just one inferior, slow and greedy archetype, not something you can casually throw in every deck like a Freakshow.


upd: you really should've perused Quintivarium's posts better. Here's a subjective tl;dr - yes, Invo is bad, but then what to say of the cards you're afraid to see stolen? Aren't they a little bit over-the-top if you hate to see them played against you that much?

 

[Barracuda88]

Vilgefortz - involves a chance to shoot yourself in the foot. True, this can also go your way, but good decks aren't supposed to be highrolly in their critical plays. Either way, gives some of the lost value back to your opponent, unlike Duels or bounty engines.
VVM - more expensive than duels, has smaller body and involves a status condition, too
Leo Bonhart - tall punish that doesn't do anything against defenders or patience engines
Rience requires you to pretty much build a deck around him and is pretty much unusable outside of TD

Vilge - doesn't really require a high roll. Rather, it will very occasionally low roll into trouble. More often than not, though, it will not ONLY remove the whatever card you want removed, it will ALSO cuck the opponent's deploy or last say card by summoning it. To the point where it will just straight up stupidly win the game. Definitely not "kinda bad."
VVM - More expensive than Seltkirk only. Same price as Anseis. Both duels also, you know, "duel" and require leader to both, get value AND survive. VVM, meanwhile, has a "condition." Which is met by about 75 percent of cards without you ever even touching them, lol.
Leo - ALSO ganks any witcher.
Rience is admittedly not plug and play, but it basically can remove two tall units in two turns.
There's also Ivar and Vanhemar. That's 6 very good removal cards aside from Yenvo. What other faction can claim the same?

All in all, there's a good reason you don't see these guys as much. And if NG people ever go for a 2nd hard nuke, it's always Heatwave, not these cards. They're kind of bad, compared to what other factions have for these purposes.

Not always and not kinda bad compared to other factions, but fairly similar to the best of them and better than pretty much anything MO and ST have to offer.

Pick one. Either have enough control to deal with Gerni, or outpoint anything in a long round. Assimilate can't really do both, because it's already a hyperpolarized deck, and if you have a Heatwave on top of Invo, you still only have two hard removals without a body - which oftentimes isn't enough, especially against MO or seeing how everything NR or SY play is a threat - while sacrificing something as important as Joachim (which, incidentally, makes your YI worse). Whereas SY or Siege could quite literally wipe your board - even the Assimilate setup, as it's ultimately all engines or payoff cards - and have a hefty brick of points after the fact.

Don't have to pick one and yes it can. Heatwave and Yenvo both being in an assimilate deck is not uncommon at all, and the two are enough most of the time, especially against MO, since you'll remove both, the defender and the cheese behind it AND brick witches sabbath in the process.

Granted, "two hard removals" would be a lot if you could also play Diviners or Assassinations. Too bad you can't, since your provisions are tight, plus clogged Vigo is never a good time (and assass sucks anyway).

Oh, you can fit a 5p diviner in a deck. The provisions aren't "that" tight.

Also good of you to mention a long round specifically. Not only can you be decently matched by a bunch of archetypes there, getting that far is kinda problematic, what with half your deck being unplayable r1 and not having many good pointslam options outside of Joachim or Braathens, who are expensive, and let's be honest, you probably play Heatwave instead of the former.

What with the Blightmakers outslamming pretty much anything in R1 and having enough assimilate engines to push the round. No, you won't always manage, but nobody does. And as long as you still have Braathens and Terranova for R3, short round is not a loss, either.

True, but also - SC. depending on the archetype, play a bunch of bombs, CoL's and probably some more spells from the Sorcs. Lower ceiling, yes, but also can answer a lot more stuff and still probably have a heatwave. So...2 hard removals vs. 1 hard removal + a bunch of decent removal, which is generally better, except against a cheesy deck. Just remember how absolutely awful it feels to play against the precision strike - and they mainly play measely rebukes and bombs, so...

True, but also NG, depending on the archtype, plays a bunch of jousts, assassinations and coated weapons. And it's not awful to play against PS. It's awful to play against Madoc, and NG arguable plays more Madoc than ST.

Wrong. That would be Amphibious Assault and Freakshow.
Whereas NG at least can't really run it in Tactical Decision and sometimes replaces it with a Heatwave instead.

Matter of opinion, I guess. I did say probably. I don't play enough NR to know if there might ever be a reason not to run AA, but Freakshow might be missing from some firesworn lists, idk.

But sure, it's too cheap and too good. I actually agree with this point. Stealing a 30 points Melusine shouldn't be possible. Except without such a card, the game where freaking Triple Gerni is a strategy that exists (feel free to replace with Alumni, Vamps or you know, a highly replayable 30 points Melusine), would be unplayable for NG, for the lack of other good gold options and complete lack of good damage pings/bronze removal.

Granted, pure spies are almost playable, but aren't quite there yet. Even then, it's just one inferior, slow and greedy archetype, not something you can casually throw in every deck like a Freakshow.

Again, as someone said above, there's no evidence NG is somehow special in this. Devotion ST can do literally nothing against triple Gerni, and even non-devo, you have maybe one archtype that can counter it, as long as your heatwave is available. Same goes for Melusine. Or Kelly, or any other cheese. NG already has the most control options. Yenvo gives too much for too cheap.

 

[ThorgerWolff]

Sure this card and many others. To me this game has become forfeitfest. Still the game looks great, unfortunately you can quite accurately predict the outcome of a 'match' from the start of r1 in ladder. Even more so if you play certain leaders like Uprising, this means you'll probably won't make it past r2.

Yennifer: Invocation, or Yenvo in gwent jargon, is 9 provisions. If you go to the deck builder and check all cards, click on '9', then you would want to pick a 'best' card, it'll be Yenvo most of the time/all the time. To put it in perspective, Gregoire de Gorgon is 9 provisions, Milaen is 9 provisions haha even Triss: butterflies is 9 provisions, kind of 3 insta-lose cards on ladder. Even Meme Master Mirror is 9 provisions.

 

[quintivarium]

Yennifer: Invocation, or Yenvo in gwent jargon, is 9 provisions. If you go to the deck builder and check all cards, click on '9', then you would want to pick a 'best' card, it'll be Yenvo most of the time/all the time. To put it in perspective, Gregoire de Gorgon is 9 provisions, Milaen is 9 provisions haha even Triss: butterflies is 9 provisions, kind of 3 insta-lose cards on ladder. Even Meme Master Mirror is 9 provisions.

I also dislike Yennefer’s invocation — for reasons I’ve already articulated. But let’s be fair; there are lots of very good 9 provision cards — and many abusive ones, of which Invocation is far from the worst culprit.

At 9 provisions, there are all defenders, there are good tutors (Royal decree, Naglfar, Vivaldi Bank, Matta Hu’uri), there is good removal (Curse of Corruption, Triangle within a Triangle, Vilgefortz, Selkirk, Moreelse, Graden), there’s broken point generators (Cahir, Salamander, Savola, Kolgrim), there’s theft cards (Tainted Ale, Frightener, Olgierd: Immortal, Sabertooth, Saesenthessis), there is excellent spawn support (Igor the Hook, Katakan, Caranthir, Keldar, Eibhear), there are theft cards (Mimuna, Cadavarine), there are resilience units (Ciri:Nova, Sausage Maker, Gabor), not to mention some great cards less easily categorized (Dies Irae, Tibor, Dandelion, Priscilla, Coral, Odo, Sukrus, …) Which I would pick very much depends upon the deck I wish to build.

My observation is that those who most loudly complain about cards like Invocation are those most likely to be playing one several of the many other broken, OP, abusive cards (like Melusine or Bloody Mistress, or Raffard’s Vengeance, or Brouver, or Dagur, or Gezras, or …) themselves.

 

[Barracuda88]

Yes, and those most loudly defending it are most likely to be playing that Faction of Shining Light, the Keepers of the Balanced Meta, Haters of all things abusive, broken and oppressive, Fair Nilfgaard. Go figure.

Here's the thing though. While there are some especially egregious exploiters of OP cards out there who would like to see a complete, or at least a major rework for the card, to weaken its righteously godlike powers of removal, the more likely nerf would be provision, and at 10p, this beacon of hope would still be able to keep us safe from abusers.

 

[ThorgerWolff]

Which I would pick very much depends upon the deck I wish to build.

In all decks Yenvo would thrive, all other cards mentioned are deck dependent cards, so hence Yenco needs a nerf because it is too strong for 9 provisions.

Curse of Corruption can kill your own cards, you cannot select the card yourself
Triangle within a Triangle, not nearly as good as Yenvo
Royal decree is a nice tutor for units only Works best in NG decks.
Naflgar is part rng and not very good for faction card.
Vilgefortz is RNG and also NG.
Vivaldi Bank should be a crime card, needs coins and is RNG.
Matta Hu’uri gives opponent card as well
Selkirk needs zeal
Moreelse needs coins to be strong
Graden is deck dependent
Cahir annoying but also NG and row locked.
Salamander seen coming from miles away. Deck dependent
Savola expensive but with KoB it is strong, needs coins, deck dependent.
Kolgrim seen from miles away, needs setup. Also NG.
Tainted Ale quite avarage
Frightener deck dependent
Olgierd: Immortal deck dependent
Sabertooth deck dependent, easy to work around
Saesenthessis ok if neutral but is ST
Igor the Hook deck dependent,
Katakan deck dependent
Keldar is good, but only really good in certain decks
Eibhar very deck dependent
Mimuna RNG, deck dependent
Ciri:Nova very deck dependent

Gabor, sausage maker and cadavarine are very nice 9 prov cards,

Let's not forget these 9 prov. cards: Garrison, Primordial D'ao or just look at 10 provision Enraged Ifrit or Dandelion: Vainglory...

Post automatically merged: Feb 15, 2022

My observation is that those who most loudly complain about cards like Invocation are those most likely to be playing one several of the many other broken, OP, abusive cards (like Melusine or Bloody Mistress, or Raffard’s Vengeance, or Brouver, or Dagur, or Gezras, or …) themselves.

True although yenvo is a cheap card for what it does, then there's Vincent, more expensive with a condition + no GY prevention + no replay opponents card ability, but yes that small body of 3 points sure...

 

[EduFerraz]

the true is:

play melusine in r1? he got heatwaved? fine its 10 per 10. Mess with your deck gameplay but thats part of it,

Play melusine in r1? he grow up and got yenvoed? thats sucks, your opponent problably has a good finisher withou need provision to that,

Play raffards in 1? he got heatwaved? fine its 10 per 10.

Play raffards in 1? he got yenvoed? Thats sucks, you will problably need to deal with your own raffard in r1 or, while your opponent has e free good card

So against NG we cant play good cards in r1. While with other removers you are - usually - trading a good card with a good card, with yenvo you are trading 2 good cards (replay) fro one good card