Yenn - Invocation needs a nerf

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Here's an example of how Faction vs Neutral actually should work: Call of Nature. It's similar to Royal Decree, and has THE SAME provision cost. It BOOSTS by 1 when it plays a card, as opposed to Decree just playing a card, BUT it can also play ONLY Scoia units, as opposed to ANY unit for the decree.
It's Scoia'tael's ability btw. Old Filavandrel ability, boosting units from your hand by 1. Protects your units, activates some of their abilities etc. Call of Nature is a great card for Scoia'tael. For example, as Scoia'tael you have to activate Mahakam Defender, which requires 2 rounds to get full value or requires leader. Call of Nature solves that even that card in your deck, activates the ability and plays on board in 1 round. Btw neutral cards doesn't require 1 point buff. Royal Decree only grants you access the key cards from your deck and makes consistent deck. That 1 point buff could seems very little extra bonus but in future with Scoia'tael fundamentals, could be very good.
And the thing you are missing imo, Call of Nature grants you tempo.
About Yennefer Invocation, yeah it's powerful. And you can't limit that card something like "restricted by only faction cards or units". Right now she has very potential, before this expansion she doesn't seems to play, because she can only distrupts your opponents tempo with extras. If your opponent wins against you without targeted card, she can't help you.

Your argument falls flat here, because before play Yen, NG can play Vincent Van Moorlehem in the Defender unit. Yeah it is BS as it sounds.
Is the most broken thing is a unit that can deal with Defenders without any set up. NG has it all.
True, but think like this, if opponent runs Vincent and Yen Invocation in the same deck, probably a Status deck or very aggresive against Scenerio decks. Even with that, that guy only targets the Scenerio, that means doesn't have a big provision another game changer card. You could keep playing against your opponent, you could win.

You would even need a Skill like Pincer to place that important Card next to your Defender in the same Turn or the Defender is removed before you can place that important Card, i'm not a big Fan of Defenders anyway but current NG has kind of made them completely useless.

Ofiri Merchants doesn't help much either everyone now runs Cantarella probably because of Yen Ivo. The only good thing about Ofiri Merchants is that you can give them the Golem back they placed on top of your Deck with Cynthia, but against every other Faction that card is kind of useless.

I hope the removal of full mill value for reworked cards is a sign that a lot of Cards are getting changed in the next Patch.

Ofiri isn't very good, but he is solid 4 points for 4 provisions, which is tech card. If that card doesn't help you in that match, you can play on last round or you can mulligan away. I was talking for this situation, if you are playing a scenerio deck which isn't Nilfgaard against Yen Invocation Nilfgaard deck. If you are playing Nilfgaard there are better solutions for that.

Abilities that play another card could be limited to bronze cards only. Mobilization is hardly OP (Siege scenerio synergy excluded).

Now, we have Yen Invocation ( NOT Con) vs Heatwave. It's 1 less provision, AND unlike CoN it has no faction limitations, only faction benefits, AND instead of just banishing, it STEALs ANY card and enables you to use it, so it has zero drawbacks in performance.

But there's "no reason to nerf it" because it... "does what NG is known for"? Is that logic?

Con is mistake, i was thinking Invocation. Scenerios are very faction restricted card, even if that guy steals your Scenerio, couldn't even use it if that isn't Scenerio Nilfgaard deck with Yen Invocation. Scoia'tael's requires elves, there are very few elves to play for Neutral, and they are very expensive, even if opponent runs them, requires Isengrim or Veronissel to get full value from it. This is not Hearthstone. Nilfgaard requires Aristocrats, there are not many aristocrats in Nilfgaard, NR requires Machies, have you ever seen any deck running fire scorpions, mangonel or 4 point shielded machine? Monsters' requries deathwish cards, Nilfgaard can't access them without randomness, Syndicate requires blindeyes, even if you can reach that, it's useless. Skellige need druids, there are no neutral Druids in game right now.
It's a down tempo for Nilfgaard, and he can't play that card.
 
This card is pretty interesting actually, but only gives "great" value against great cards. (lets say Olaf or Champion of Svalblod shenanigans)

Unlike say Leo, this card does not put any points on the table and cannot be used with say Vivienne. On the other hand, it has no conditions for taking out a card. It can take out artifacts too, which is somewhat useful.

On average over time, this card, as someone pointed out, does not give fantastic value, maybe slightly better than Leo.

Some of the most frequent situations I've used Yen is on those annoying "defender" cards.
 
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I know how to balance the card. Just make it able to steal "9 or less" provision cards, otherwise, just banish a card. And it still will be better then Korathi heatwave, cos it costs less provision and has an additional option to steal some cards.
 
Well, with the silly defender and the scenario, why don't you guys stop whining about this card in general and whine about it not being neutral instead?
 
I'm not whining, I'm angry :) Also, this is one the the things people repeatedly posted about. So even if CDPR don't have hardcore players in staff, they at least can read, right? Maybe I should start pisanie po Polsku :)))
 
Hey, I get that and I understand why. I was not really referring to you specifically, but general widespread whining about Yen Inv.
I think the card became all the more relevant with scenario (and previously defender). It's just a shame not everyone has access to such a card. Or do they?

Is Korathi heatwave still a thing? I know it's not Yennefer, but at least...
 
Hey, I get that and I understand why. I was not really referring to you specifically, but general widespread whining about Yen Inv.
I think the card became all the more relevant with scenario (and previously defender). It's just a shame not everyone has access to such a card. Or do they?

Is Korathi heatwave still a thing? I know it's not Yennefer, but at least...

Yes, the whole point of the complaint is the fact that Yen Inv is better AND cheaper than heatwave. And that "Faction vs neutral" is NOT a good enough reason for it to be that OP.
 
Yes, the whole point of the complaint is the fact that Yen Inv is better AND cheaper than heatwave...
Better is debatable, as there are cards that can turn her against the OP that played her originally. Banishing a card from the game on the other hand is a REALLY powerful mechanic. With more tools to use her, Invocation may be in need for a provision adjustment, but I'll say it again - way more outrageous cards out there that need nerfing and didn't get one the last patch.
 
Banishing a card is great too, epecially if you expect the opponent to use the card again.

There are many ways to get back a card your opponent "stole".
 
It's funny how people always want to destroy good cards completely. Not a small nerf, no, just completely make it irrelevant.
 
Better is debatable, as there are cards that can turn her against the OP that played her originally. Banishing a card from the game on the other hand is a REALLY powerful mechanic. With more tools to use her, Invocation may be in need for a provision adjustment, but I'll say it again - way more outrageous cards out there that need nerfing and didn't get one the last patch.

I mean, sure we can debate it. If you have Yen in your deck, you probably have cards that will help you use the stolen card, OR you can basically use it at the end, which will effectively make it like heatwave. You can capitalize "REALLY" powerful for emphasis all you want, but if you ask 10 people what card is more powerful, I bet you 9 out of 10 will say Yen.

The "cards" that can help you get the card back are all either NG, or that one bandit card that's useless against anything else and a brick in any other deck, EXCEPT the assimilate deck. In other words, the only faction that can effectively counter Yen is... NG. Yay!
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It's funny how people always want to destroy good cards completely. Not a small nerf, no, just completely make it irrelevant.

I think he was making fun of the epidemic "fix." It would be funny, not gonna lie, but I think an increase to 10-11p would be a decent start.
 
I see, I should have got that ;)

But well, I have seen such suggestion be serious as well.
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heatwave. You can capitalize "REALLY" powerful for emphasis all you want, but if you ask 10 people what card is more powerful, I bet you 9 out of 10 will say Yen.

Well, it's pretty simple really. Nilgaardians use Yen, the rest use heatwave. I bet some Nilfgaardians would use both, or even only heatwave. It's not always convenient to have another card in your deck, unless it fit the rest of your deck or is just generally very good and worth using Yen on.
 
I mean, sure we can debate it. If you have Yen in your deck, you probably have cards that will help you use the stolen card, OR you can basically use it at the end, which will effectively make it like heatwave. You can capitalize "REALLY" powerful for emphasis all you want, but if you ask 10 people what card is more powerful, I bet you 9 out of 10 will say Yen...
With the recent expansion there's a decent chance if you don't use your leader ability to pull that card out of your deck immediately, that OP will have a card to counter your Invocation and retrieve the stolen card (more often this happens in the case of Scenario). If it is something buffed, sure that card loses its buffs, but still can be detrimental for the outcome of the game if you retrieve it. With Heatwave this card is GONE. No caretaker, no Renew - you can do absolutely nothing about it. I'd argue that Heatwave might be actually better in the current state of the game.

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... Nilgaardians use Yen, the rest use heatwave. I bet some Nilfgaardians would use both...
This can be really punishing in most games, cause while you are taking points from OP, in the meantime you put nothing on your side of the board. And this is the biggest drawback of those cards. Are they strong? Sure. But far from broken.
 
This can be really punishing in most games, cause while you are taking points from OP, in the meantime you put nothing on your side of the board. And this is the biggest drawback of those cards. Are they strong? Sure. But far from broken.

Ofcourse they are not broken, quite the opposite, they are all the more relevant now. I'm not suggesting I would bring both heatwave and Yen, I just mentioned that it's an option.
 
With the recent expansion there's a decent chance if you don't use your leader ability to pull that card out of your deck immediately, that OP will have a card to counter your Invocation and retrieve the stolen card (more often this happens in the case of Scenario). If it is something buffed, sure that card loses its buffs, but still can be detrimental for the outcome of the game if you retrieve it. With Heatwave this card is GONE. No caretaker, no Renew - you can do absolutely nothing about it. I'd argue that Heatwave might be actually better in the current state of the game.

A decent chance, really? Like I said already, the chance is decent if you're playing NG mirror maybe, but any other faction it's pretty bloody unlikely that they can counter your Yen, unless they run that one bandit that is completely useless against anything else and has no synergy with any deck other than assimilate, which is... NG. So yes, Yen is theoretically weaker than Heatwave... if you play against NG. Sorry, I don't think that's a good enough reason for it to be CHEAPER, considering it's better against all other decks and more flexible in that it can be used as heatwave to effectively banish a unit at the end of the game, or it can steal a key card, which can ruin many decks, and then USE it against said deck, which is just rubbing it in.

No one is saying Heatwave is worthless. It's a great card and pretty much auto-include in the meta of blatant Caretaker abuse, but Yen should either be at least the same provision cost, OR the ability should be changed to something like "If it's NG unit, place it on top of your deck. All other factions: place the unit on the BOTTOM of THEIR deck."
 
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