Using Calveit comes with a lot of disadvantages. I never use him in my NG decks and he isn't exactly meta. So I disagree, it's not "nothing".
Right.
So i Will make a challange.
In The next 10 days i doubt someone give me print screen (or vídeos) showing that The player needs to use yenvo in a R2 bleed in a shit buffed card and needs to mulligan it in r3.
My challange its only 3 games, since every NG player says its a common thing use yenvo in buffed shit cards The challange will be easy to complete
As well as Fleders, Messengers and so on. It really adds no value to discuss if there can be ideal or not-so ideal choices for this.
Most of the time it has to target a defender, which - at least in most cases - is a card worth playing the next round.
It is a powerful, faction specific removal card, I don't think anyone is denying that.
Is it gamebreaking though? Not at all, unless you recklessly play into it, in which scenario it is absolutely fine to feel miserable.
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I'd propose a different perspective. Invo is strongest where there are greedy cards and plays. You play a deck with high base power or massively buffed units? You play your key 13 prov engines without a defender or any other source of protection? Obviously you inflate the value of Invocation (and literally any removal - would you call a 4prov Spores resetting a 40 point card to 4 fair?).
As soon as you start playing decks with moderately tall units, the importance and power of Invocation will start to plummet.
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1. When Invocation is used as tall removal (I agree that often happens) it is almost always used in the final round to remove critical points and the card snatched will never be drawn. The main reason it is played earlier is to opportunistically grab a card that is useful. To me, this gives it a very powerful dual functionality; I would hardly call that a drawback.
2. I have nothing against cards like spores that punish highly greedy strategies — I wish there were more of them. And I wish there were cards that better punished the more recent greedy cards that distribute points or that raise base power instead of boosting. My big objection to Invocation (and Heatwave) is not that they remove huge units — it is that they inequatibly punish decks that rely on reuse of destroyed cards (esp MO and SK). I have all but quit playing my two favorite factions because I tired of building a deck around cards like Artis (counting on a resurrection if he is removed), only to meet a Heatwave that leaves the entire deck with very few points. Or to build a deck around Arachas Queen only to be denied the critical deathwish (assuming it’s targets weren’t destroyed first). Even this I wouldn’t mind if it was accomplished by a clever play or by specifically targeting my deck. But with cards like Heatwave and Invocation, it is done by an all purpose, over-powered, autoinclude bazooka.
2. I have nothing against cards like spores that punish highly greedy strategies — I wish there were more of them. And I wish there were cards that better punished the more recent greedy cards that distribute points or that raise base power instead of boosting. My big objection to Invocation (and Heatwave) is not that they remove huge units — it is that they inequatibly punish decks that rely on reuse of destroyed cards (esp MO and SK). I have all but quit playing my two favorite factions because I tired of building a deck around cards like Artis (counting on a resurrection if he is removed), only to meet a Heatwave that leaves the entire deck with very few points. Or to build a deck around Arachas Queen only to be denied the critical deathwish (assuming it’s targets weren’t destroyed first). Even this I wouldn’t mind if it was accomplished by a clever play or by specifically targeting my deck. But with cards like Heatwave and Invocation, it is done by an all purpose, over-powered, autoinclude bazooka.
Haven't read the thread, but the card is not that great. I've won several games where the opponent's last card proved to be a this card, playing for a grand total of 5 points. Half the times I play it myself I don't even want to replay the card.
It has no inherent value. It looks great when punishing tall strategies, so I'm guessing those people are the ones complaining. You might have some OP card played against you in R3, but then just don't play any OP cards or keep them for R3.
So a card with a very high ceiling, but you can theoretically be forced to play it for less than 3 points.
It has no inherent value. It looks great when punishing tall strategies, so I'm guessing those people are the ones complaining. You might have some OP card played against you in R3, but then just don't play any OP cards or keep them for R3.
So a card with a very high ceiling, but you can theoretically be forced to play it for less than 3 points.
Yenn - Invocation provision cost is relatively low , also it usually stealing strongest opponent card, it is stronger than banish.
Korathi Heatwave is OP.
But Yenn - Invocation is more OP at lower cost.Also after that it is faction card, not even neutral, so can be used in Devotion deck's.
True
Not entirely true. And I say it as the prime Korathi hater around here.
DittoBut Yenn - Invocation is more OP at lower cost.
Also after that it is faction card, not even neutral, so can be used in Devotion deck's.
Absolutely wrong. You steal for points 99 times out of 100, which means a stupid Sea Jackal or a Fleder.
I'm new player, but I got pro rank few days ago. When I saw invocation first time I got shocked, I just couldn't belive this card exists. But after making and playing NG I'm fine with Invocation. I think it's very strong card but I don't think it's OP. So the problem was I just didn't know and still don't know all cards in the game.
Soldiers? Bad. Tactics? Without Assimilate, bad. Mill? Against most decks, unfavoured. Clog? Falls completely apart if opponent answers your defender and Kolgrim/Rience (which basically only requires a Purify/Heatwave/Move and/ or Geralt/Yrden/Igni/Lock/Heatwave. Also pretty bad against any SK Deck because of Discard or if opponent doesn't give you good clog targets. Or you get outgreeded in a long round. Masquerade Ball? Ridiculously easy to bleed (Scenario for 15 provisions is 4 points on deploy, lol).
Dwarves? Bad. Elves? Bad. Harmony? Bad. Handbuff? Bad. Traps? Bad. Movement? Bad. Have I illustrated how it's "necessary" for Yenn Invo to be an ST card yet, or should I keep going?
Other archetypes being bad doesn’t mean we must cripple the working ones for equality
No, it just means the statement I called untrue two comments up is untrue.
This thread is about Yenn Invo, not how NG's archtypes are "powercrept." But if you start with the tired "NG archetypes are baid so it needs these OP cards thing again," you are by default comparing NG to other factions. You can't be "powercrept" in a vacuum.
What he means to say is that you can find bad archetypes among other factions (I'd add NR and MO in there for sure) as well but that doesn't mean the whole faction is "trash".