Looking at the previous designs of Yen - glad they changed it - the current ingame model is the best!
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Bit strange how they'd want to make the main story about the disabled family, yet ultimate not put nearly as much emphasis on said family. I'd like to know at what point during the development process was the team asked to not follow up with the family part of the lore? Epic story about Geralt, Ten and Ciri, which failed to make the final version... Can we have a pre-release version with this epic family story, pls?
I guess this pretty much burries any hopes for Yennefer and Ciri content? Looks like it would contradict with the disabled family concept. I fail to see where Yennefer takes a part in this disabled family. I understand that she is just a secondary NPC and it is "Geralt's story" (what story?) but oh well, if you want to make an epic story about a family, then you might
as well include all of them instead of brushing one of the most important relationships in the pentalogy under the carpet. Why even mention Yen? Everyone who played the game knows it is solely about Geralt and his relationship with Blinky. Yennefer plays no part in it (Blinky's future or parenting). All decisions are made by the player (Geralt). That isn't a family story but rather an androcentric story. Ciri and Yennefer do not make any decisions that would affect the plot in a bigger scale on their own. Now why is that so if that was not their intention? Simplification? Romance options? Budget? Time?
Here we can see Yennefer's real role in the game, not a strict but loving mother, rather just a simple romance option.
Sadly they cut a quest where Yennefer imprisons Geralt on some island, it would draw the whole picture even better.
Links to three posts by @Scholdarr.452 back when we discussed this whole "female topic" issue in The Witcher 3.
http://forums.cdprojektred.com/thre...ll-spoilers)?p=1872439&viewfull=1#post1872439
http://forums.cdprojektred.com/thre...ll-spoilers)?p=1872453&viewfull=1#post1872453
http://forums.cdprojektred.com/thre...ll-spoilers)?p=1872952&viewfull=1#post1872952
Sadly it looks like CDPR is satisfied with the current state of Ciri. Otherwise a responsible party would have reacted.
That's what I take from it. More than a thousand pages and over half a million views, still no reaction to suggestions.
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*sigh* And from all of that we only got Nidhogg card in The Witcher Adventure Game :geraltsad:
@theta77, start Kickstarter campaign, we'll back you up :lol:
:uma:
1) Childhood and puberty
I'll try to keep it short. As we could see in Swallow’s Tower, her father was abusive
and her mother didn’t really side with her either and just failed to protect Yennefer.
I can’t imagine how hard it must be growing up as a hunchback. You are nothing
but a laughing stock for all the other kids, especially ‘back then’. It’s very difficult
to make friends or find some closure. She didn’t find any love in the place where
it should have been given to her no matter the circumstances - her home. Luckily,
I don’t know what it feels like - having nowhere to go, nobody to trust and lean on.
We can only speculate how Yennefer ended up in Aretuza. I doubt she ran away
from her parents and/or got there on her own, granted she was a little hunchback.
Did somebody take her? Did her parents give her to somebody or sent her there?
Maybe her parents travelled with her to Aretuza, just to get rid of her? Or perhaps
it was a humble act? Not necessarily by her father, maybe at least by her mother?
To give Yennefer a chance in life and escape the torture? Who knows. Sapkowski
didn’t give us any details on this topic, and so all we can do is make assumptions
based on what we know from his books. Yennefer somehow ended up in Aretuza,
and started her magic training. Possibly, she thought she would finally find at least
a little bit of happiness, or a cozy place to stay for the night. Again, based on what
I know, I can assume that she only found the latter, to some extent. Yennefer was
still a hunchback before she tried to commit suicide. She probably didn’t find any
friends at all, and was once again nothing but a laughing stock for the other kids.
I know it was a school of magic. She got education, also a place to stay at night.
But was it any better than what she already had to endure? Without the torment,
of course, but still. She probably had nobody to turn to and spend some nice time
with and get necessary attention a child deserves. Same situation and frustration.
What we can say for sure, or let’s say assume safely, is that Yennefer murdered
her parents after she got to Aretuza, because of reasons (and assumptions) that
were mentioned above... Whether it was during or after her studies, I’m guessing
Yennefer wasn’t a hunchback anymore and, most likely, was a trained sorceress.
Andrzej Sapkowski - The Sword of Destiny - A Shard of Ice
She lay next to him without putting out the lantern.
She was unable to sleep in the dark, so she never put out the light.
Whether the lamp was a night light or candle, it always had to burn to the last.
Always. Another eccentricity. Yennefer had an incredible amount of eccentricities.
Andrzej Sapkowski - Time of Contempt - Chapter Three
He looked at the cabinet.
‘Yen?’
‘I am here.’
‘When you studied in Aretuza...
When you slept in a room like this...
Did you have a doll without which you couldn’t fall asleep?
A doll which laid on the cabinet during the day?’
‘No,’ Yennefer stirred painfully. ‘I didn’t have a doll.
Don’t ask me about that, Geralt. Please don’t ask me.’
Under the lead, or shall I say under the command of Tissaia de Vries, also known
as the neatest (and severe) sorceress ever, Yennefer was given a second chance,
new life to start over with... Just like Ciri took some of Yennefer’s personality traits,
Yennefer likewise evidently took a lot from Tissaia. The stern but caring sorceress
manifestly trained Yennefer to the very best of her abilities. ‘You will need to work
on yourself. It will not be easy.’ However difficult and painful it all was, she worked.
Who else would be behind Yennefer’s infamous shallow mask of arrogance than
Tissaia de Vries and her education itself? Well, I’m not trying to say that Yennefer
disliked it, not at all. That I cannot say. You usually take what you’re given and try
to make the best of it. Endure and survive. Naturally, that mask is something she
desperately needed to be able to keep moving on. ‘Cry girl. Pour it all out. Make it
your last cry. From now on, you won’t be allowed to cry.’ Well, after read all of this,
can you wonder why she grew to be cynical? Yennefer was taught to suppress her
emotions, very much like Geralt himself. Superficial disguise of a selfish sorceress
who doesn’t tend to show her emotions and cares only about her personal affairs.
I’m not defending her pose. What I’m actually trying to say is that she isn’t posing.
She has more reasons than anyone to not trust people, keep secrets and be aloof.
When you get fucked by life that much, you learn to always be alert. Her mask is
nothing but protection. It helps her deal with the past, also the future. It helps her
deal with the insecurity, fear and shame. Inside, she’s very damaged and fragile.
Cynical sarcasm is her way of dealing with the negative emotions and memories.
Is it safe to show it to the world? Wouldn’t she get abused again? That’s her fight.
Inside. All the time. I don’t applaud and praise her attitude, although I sympathize.
Her character is very realistic. Sadly, horrors like this can happen and it’s up to us
how we deal with them and if we can move on... I suppose people want to escape
from the reality when reading fantasy books or playing video games. And for them,
Yennefer is a painful reminder. Why are some of us bothered with her personality?
What I fail to understand sometimes, is why do people love to hate her so much.
A. Sapkowski wrote a breathtaking story about a woman who is a tough survivor.
She shouldn’t be an object of our condemnation. We don’t know how it feels like
and if we judge her regardless, it bluntly says a lot more about us than about her.
Yennefer fully opens up only in the presence of her loved ones, we all know that.
Geralt and Ciri genuinely love her for the way she is, all her angels and demons.
Not for the way she could be or should’ve been. She doesn’t have to be cautious
or pretend at all - she is herself. It’s literally as if she was putting her mask down,
which is a key to the locked and hidden doors behind it. The highway to her soul.
Yennefer always cared about people in desperate need and helped when it was
necessary. Right now I can think of two demonstrable examples from the books.
I’m not saying she’s overly self-sacrificing, not at all. But she certainly does care
about other people, not just herself and her loved ones. And she saved lives too.
Andrzej Sapkowski - Time of Contempt - Chapter Two
‘Yennefer,’ the dwarf interrupted.
‘I owe you unlimited credit. A long time has passed since the pogrom in Vengerberg.
Perhaps you have forgotten it, but I never will. No member of Giancardi family will.
How much do you need?’
...
‘You have already paid your interest,’ the dwarf raised his head, ‘for the whole Giancardi
family, Yennefer, during the pogrom in Vengerberg. Let's not talk about it anymore.’
Andrzej Sapkowski - The Swallow’s Tower - Chapter Nine
‘On the steps of Kaer Trolde, leading to the seaport,’ the priestess reminded her, smiling.
‘When the ships arrived in the sound. I stood over you as you helped a pregnant woman,
who was about to lose her child... On your knees, without worrying about your very expensive
camlet dress. I saw that and will never again tell stories of callous and calculating sorceresses.’
2) Infertility and motherhood
As much as I wanted to avoid this topic - to save myself from the inevitable tears,
I couldn’t for one simple reason: this is what defines Yennefer, shapes character.
Ciri is the symbol of fertillity, the turning point for the relationship between Geralt
and Yennefer. It’s where their relationship leads. Without their adoptive daughter,
the story makes absolutely no sense, the characters were simply written this way.
Early in the books, their relationship is obviously doomed to failure and extinction.
If you either refuse to, or fail to thoroughly portray the most essential and driving
relationships between the imported characters, you are wasting a lot of potential.
First and foremost, the whole trio. Their time together is what helps all of them to
advance and evolve. It’s one of the most crucial parts, which obviously deserved
a lot more attention than it received thus far. Secondly, Yennefer and her mother
and daughter relationship with Ciri. Yennefer is more than just a simple romance
option and Geralt’s lover. She’s a mother and a woman who makes decisions for
her daughter and for Geralt - because they both know her, love her and trust her.
The fact that their safety is her leading priority when making decisions, is nothing
new to them. Yennefer’s character is clearly motivated by these relationships, it’s
what helps her survive every day. If you brush them under the carpet, what is left
is more or less just an empty shell (aka love interest) without its original meaning.
The intended purpose - the way the story was once told by the author, is missing.
And the unavoidable result - the characters took a noticeable hit in their portrayal.
During the course of all 7 [8] books, we could see her maternity help her develop
a lot as a human being. It was her motherhood that helped Yennefer to overcome
her fear and darkness. Under the black mask, we could see a beautiful white light.
We were getting closer and closer, step by step, firstly seeing her from a distance,
very far away, but slowly approaching, only to finally give in completely and smile.
Her ‘crusade’ wasn’t easy at all and demanded a lot of sacrificing... But eventually,
Yennefer was able to win her fight and meet happiness. That’s the most important
aspect of her character written by Sapkowski. Her maternity is where all the things
about Yennefer begin and end. It’s everything. And somehow, reasoning unknown,
this fact, blindingly obvious to anyone who read the books, was mostly just ignored
in TW3, almost entirely after you find Ciri. Where’s Yennefer’s main characteristic?
Why did she spend such a long time looking for her daughter only to end up being
left out and thrown away after she finally finds her? Why doesn’t Yennefer support
Ciri and stand beside her? Her character is worthless this way. And the reason I’m
so ‘upset’ about this - I believe that Sapkowski’s message, his work and characters
deserved a lot more justice and description than they received. To be honest, I feel
like Yennefer’s character in TW3 is used as a mere plot tool and a romance option.
She drives the story, that’s true. But ironically only until you find Ciri... That was her
role in the game and that’s where her part ends. Yennefer doesn’t get her deserved
appreciation and recognition, not even from her own daughter. All book fans noticed
this issue, and so we already have an informative thread addressing it. Link is below.
The unfulfilled love between Yennefer and Ciri and an incomplete family
Andrzej Sapkowski - Blood of Elves - Ending of Chapter Six / Beginning of Chapter Seven
No one is born a wizard. We still know too little about genetics and the mechanisms of heredity.
We sacrifice too little time and means on research. Unfortunately, we constantly try to pass on
inherited magical abilities in, so to say, a natural way. Results of these pseudo-experiments
can be seen all too often in town gutters and within temple walls. We see too many of them,
and too frequently come across morons and women in a catatonic state, dribbling seers who
soil themselves, seeresses, village oracles and miracle-workers, cretins whose minds are
degenerate due to the inherited, uncontrolled Force.These morons and cretins can also
have offspring, can pass on abilities and thus degenerate further. Is anyone in a position
to foresee or describe how the last link in such a chain will look? Most of us wizards lose
the ability to procreate due to somatic changes and dysfunction of the pituitary gland.
Some wizards - usually women - attune to magic while still maintaining efficiency of the gonads.
They can conceive and give birth - and have the audacity to consider this happiness
and a blessing. But I repeat: no one is born a wizard. And no one should be born one!
Conscious of the gravity of what I write, I answer the question posed at the Congress in Cidaris.
I answer emphatically: each one of us must decide who she wants to be - a wizard or a mother.
I demand all apprentices be sterilized. Without exception.
Tissaia de Vries, The Poisoned Source
That’s the price Yennefer had to pay for becoming a sorceress - her possibility
of having a child. However, that decision was made for her by Tissaia de Vries,
her mentor. She stripped her off that opportunity before Yennefer even realized
how important will pregnancy become for her. She could’t be a mother, but she
craved for it anyway. She would do anything for a baby. Such was her despair.
The only thing Yennefer proceeds to care about after graduating from Aretuza
and being a qualified sorceress is curing her infertility. This is the most crucial
part of her character development in the books. Ciri is what helps her move on
and finally silence her demons. It’s the same for Geralt. Ciri is something more.
The fact that Yennefer was infertile was completely destroying her and added
even more tragedy to the whole dysfunctional mix of low self-esteem, shame
and fear... Yet another reason for Yennefer to doubt herself and be insecure.
While other sorceresses were mostly interested in riches or power, she was
just trying to regain the possiblity of baring a child, at all costs. Her maternal
instinct was extremely strong, her dark past obviously had a lot to do with it.
Being an infertile sorceress with such a past, she didn’t believe she’s worthy.
Can I be loved? Do I even deserve to be loved? But am I capable of loving?
Somebody has genuine feelings for me, however, can I equally return them?
And then Ciri saves them both. She helps Yennefer and Geralt win the fight.
Andrzej Sapkowski - The Sword of Destiny - A Shard of Ice
'There are some things... you cannot obtain, even through magic.
And some gifts you cannot accept unless you are able to give something in return.
Something equally valuable.
Otherwise, such a gift will slip through your fingers, like a shard of ice melting in a closed fist.
There will remain only regret, a sense of loss and guilt.
I am a sorceress, Geralt.
The power I possess over matter is a gift. A gift I reciprocate.
I paid for it. With everything I had. There is nothing left.'
...
Forgive me.
I cannot accept your gift.
I have nothing to give you in return, that would adequately express my gratitude.
That’s the truth.
Polish original: ‘Nie ma we mnie niczego, czym mogłabym ci się odwdzięczyć.’
I have nothing inside me (that could return your gift). That’s just fucked up...
Andrzej Sapkowski - The Sword of Destiny - Something More
'Belleteyn!' she cried suddenly. Geralt felt the shoulders pressed against his chest rise and fall.
'They have fun. They celebrate the eternal cycle of nature. And us? What do we do?
We, the relics, those condemned to death, to extermination and oblivion.
Nature is reborn, the cycle repeats itself. But not us, Geralt. We can't perpetuate ourselves.
We are denied that possibility. We have inherited the gift to do extraordinary things with nature,
sometimes against it, but we have been deprived of what is most simple and natural in return.
What does it matter that we live longer than humans? There is no spring after the winter.
We are not reborn, our end carries us with it. But something draws us to the fires,
even though our presence is a cruel joke, a sacrilege against this festival.'
She fell silent. He didn't like to see her fall into such darkness.
He knew the reason too well. It's starting to gnaw at her again, he thought.
There had been a time when it seemed that she had forgotten or accepted her fate.
He moved his shoulders, rocking her like a child. She didn't resist.
Geralt wasn't surprised. He knew that she needed it.
Yennefer’s infertility plays an important role in the short stories already. Actually, we all
read about this pitiful situation she was in even before her very first meeting with Geralt.
The Voice of Reason VI, where Geralt discusses it with Nenneke, which is followed by
The Last Wish. Sapkowski tried his best to show us how much it mattered to Yennefer
by making this the first longer mention of her, prior to reading about how these two met.
Yennefer passages from the first four books by Sapkowski
Infertility issue from the short stories + Blood of Elves and Time of Contempt passages
After Yennefer finally found what she has been searching for such a long time,
a child, daughter, her adoptive daughter, we could all clearly see her character
develop a lot... She became more caring towards other people too. Her hidden
tenderness was awakened, screaming with delight. Yennefer finally had her little
ugly one to take care of, and vice versa. Ciri too, mostly unknowingly, took care
of Yennefer and helped her win the fight with her past, eventually she was finally
able to live with it. She could surely be strict at times. How is this any argument?
A child needs to be taught manners, especially Ciri - she could be very impudent.
Yennefer inherently decided to take on such a responsibility with all her vigilance.
She was strict, but within reason and loving, but without borders. She respected
the chance she was given with all her being, she wanted to polish that gemstone
to its perfection. This was what she always wanted to live for. Cirilla was her very
deserved closure and redemption. The day Yennefer met with her daughter, she
was reborn. CDPR decided to ignore this undoubtedly fundamental relationship
in The Witcher 3 and to some people, Yennefer is a ‘selfish and cold sorceress’.
TW3 can indeed leave people with with such an impression and so can some of
the short stories. That’s why full portrayal of the relationships from the pentalogy
is so important, mainly the whole trio and some mother and daughter cutscenes.
To be honest, in the game we see her short story version, not the caring mother.
Sometimes it can work, but in the end it’s nothing but a shadow of her character.
I hope this post helped you with understanding her personality and motives a bit
better, since The Witcher 3, apparently, often does a very poor job in this regard.
I’m not blaming the writers, don’t get me wrong. I do love the game (300+ hours).
They just didn’t picture some crucial parts of the relationships between the newly
imported characters, and that in my opinion, ended up hurting the main narrative.
What we see in The Witcher 3 is just a fragment of Yennefer. A very small piece.
Her character is heavily affected by Ciri’s love. If you replace that with insecurity
and have Ciri doubt Yennefer’s loyalty instead of trusting her (any explanation?)
then there’s going to be a completely different Yennefer, who’s lacking her main
motive and a good chunk of her caring heart - which is why she might strike you
as a selfish and cold sorceress. Combine that with even weirder writing, I guess
the best example would be Ermion (Mousesack) and you get a character whom
hardly possesses any genuinely good personality traits as written by the author.
That means Yennefer of Vengerberg by Andrzej Sapkowski. Very unfortunately,
Act 3 is the root of all evil. Until you find Cirilla, during all these hours, Yennefer
shows how much she cares for her and how strong their bond is. What happens
afterwards is just beyond me. Without any explanation at all, Yennefer suddenly
loses her daughter. Her trust and love. No caring words between them - mother,
daughter, nothing. Their body language is also quite underdeveloped and needs
more attention in my opinion. A few smiles here and there and warmer gestures.
Eyes can say a lot. Ciri’s love and presence change Yennefer as a person. I fail
to see that in the game. No matter how hard I try. There are some attempts, but
mostly just subtle remarks. Have them spend more time together, cry and laugh.
Why she looks at Yennefer with confusion and doubt instead of love and pride?
I think it hurts them both, in terms of storytelling. Ciri’s portrayal also takes a hit.
Try to picture all the missed potential and the narrative opportunities. It’s visible
in Act 3. Yennefer’s character makes no sense and loses most of its meaning if
Ciri isn’t included. It’s where Yennefer’s character was heading for all the years.
All the pain and suffering, only to finally reach the conclusion and fulfill purpose.
That’s the way her character was written and initially meant to be. If you remove
the destination of her path, the path itself loses its relevance and a few hundred
pages go to waste... And if you decide to ignore the path, destination itself lacks
the importance and loses all value. We are talking about extremely complicated
characters, and in that case, I daresay simplification is the worst approach ever.
3) Community suggestions
This post will include all suggestions for TW3. Should it be Ciri or Yennefer, they both help Geralt “evolve”
as a human being and discover his suppressed feelings. The most important thing is that the whole family
works together as a unit. It’s not only about Geralt and Ciri or Geralt & Yennefer. Ciri + Yennefer is a very
crucial part of it. Would Geralt and Yennefer work without Ciri? Never. Why isn’t this essential part of their
relationship shown more in the game? I completely understand that Geralt of Rivia is the main protagonist,
so his relationship with Ciri is the main focus, we also get plenty of beautiful Yennefer and Geralt moments.
Why are mother and father portrayed together perfectly, father with his daughter are portrayed very well too,
but for some reason mother and daughter don’t spend enough time with each other? New cutscenes and
dialogues would take a lot of work. What we could begin with is tweaking their already existing moments,
adding more love, sympathy and mutual trust, mostly from Ciri’s side. Their relationship has a deep core
and only grows stronger with time in books... They both walked through hell and would die for each other.
We weren’t given any logical explanation from Ciri about her behaviour towards Yennefer in the game at all.
She would never act so distanced and if she did, she would explain herself... Few moments here and there,
but overall Ciri acts like she doesn’t trust Yennefer. I don’t think that showing a little bit of their relationship,
love and trust would hurt at all. There could be very easy and possible tweaks that could create this feeling,
without overly focusing on their relationship and dragging all the attention from Geralt and Ciri relationship.
I think that showing their relationship more would only benefit Geralt and Ciri, even if Triss is your romance
option you still get to discover Ciri and her relationship with Yennefer to it’s full extent. It helps the narrative.
I perceive this might seem like a step that could make freedom of choice and diversity of options less balanced,
but I don’t think people would complain. It can make the game a lot better not just for the book readers, but also
new players and everyone who loves Triss Merigold... If we're interpreting characters from Sapkowski’s universe,
we shouldn’t disregard one of the most important parts, which is a family of three. Their love plays a crucial part.
Ciri is representing the worst effect of humanity, as all of us tend to abuse or destroy what is precious to us.
Geralt of Rivia and Yennefer of Vengerberg were both damaged inside and didn’t know what love feels like.
Geralt never had a real family. Yennefer grew up with a family that tortured her, which resulted in a tragedy.
She tried to commit suicide and later on murdered her parents. The suicide attempt was unsuccessful and
under the lead of Tissaia de Vreis, she was given a shallow mask of arrogance, which helped her fight with
her demons, hide her damaged soul and somehow keep moving on. The only thing she eventually proceeds
to care about is curing her infertility and having a child. We all know the rest of the story. Geralt and Yennefer
find each other, it doesn’t work because of their terrible past and low self-esteem, they are both insecure and
don’t believe they deserve be loved... They both needed something more... Cirilla, their adoptive daughter.
While Geralt and Ciri love each other, the daughter will always be closer to her mother.
It’s natural and it’s shown in Sapkowski’s books. Their relationship is more profound.
Geralt wasn’t really looking for a family, for him it was all just a sudden turn of events.
Yennefer however spent her whole life seeking for love and possibility to have a child.
Ciri and her relationship with Geralt needs to stay superior, there’s no doubt about it.
But does Yennefer and her relationship with Ciri have to be brushed under the carpet?
Let’s take a look at existing suggestions, all in one pdf. Please read it carefully.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B78WZJ66We2kdXpRLU9paVNtbTQ/view
I hope that after reading all of this, you can understand why does including at least
a bit of mutual love and appreciation from Ciri to Yennefer have such a high demand.
They’re both book characters, just like Geralt and we don’t like when they’re ignored.
How to balance this with the main story, freedom of choice and diversity of options?
I don’t know... I've never done this, but CDPR doesn't need any guidance or scripts.
They've shown us what they're capable of, their teams are full of qualified, awesome
people who can do impossible if they want to. Pretty please, consider some tweaks.
What concerns not just me personally, but thousands of other players and fans:
Yen and Ciri don’t get enough time together. Kaer Morhen and Avallac’hs Laboratory.
If this can’t be fixed with additional dialogues or small cutscenes because it wouldn’t
be in harmony with your general idea about the game, please consider tweaking already
existing dialogues and interactions. Add more sympathy, love and trust from Ciri’s side.
More caring words between them... More subtle gestures and greater show of emotions.
The moment they have with each other when you refuse to visit Skjall’s grave with Ciri
is sadly the only genuinely emotional moment they share with each other after being
reunited at Kaer Morhen. I would personally focus on Kaer Morhen. Better introduction.
Ciri could also say something you know, mother or whatever. But this way I’m quickly
getting to big suggestions which would include a lot more work. I’d start with this post:
Yen and Ciri having an emotional moment if Geralt refuses to visit Skjall's grave
What I mentioned on the forum is Ciri insisting on having Yen included in her talk with Geralt on Isle of Mists,
but this would require to rework the scene completely and have them talk at Kaer Morhen, all three together.
What could be done instead is keeping it as it is, but Yen and Ciri get a similar talk at Kaer Morhen right after.
After the fight with Wild Hunt cosplayers, Vesemir dying and Ciri fighting her emotions:
This could apply to so many things: snowball fight (Yen comforting Ciri beforehand
or afterwards, maybe even cheering for Ciri while Ciri and Geralt snowball together)
Avallac’hs lab was awesome, Yen comforts Ciri if Geralt refuses to visit Skjall’s grave.
I don’t see why Yennefer wasn’t included when you agree with Ciri and visit the grave.
Final Battle Preparations and all Act 3 after defeating Imlerith. I know my suggestion
for this isn’t realistic as it would take a very deep rework and a great amount of time,
but it includes all four most important relationships - Ciri, Geralt, Yennefer and Triss,
spending their time together. Questions get answered, things get cleared up. Shall you
decide to take at least something from it, the whole relationship between them in TW3
would be portrayed a lot better and players wouldn’t feel punished for their decisions.
Once again here is the post: Act 3 - Final Battle Preparations - Ciri + Yen + Triss
Scholdarr - How to change Lodge scene to present Yen as Ciri’s mother figure
One more scene with Yennefer and Ciri being the main focus wouldn't hurt. Lodge’s eavesdropping
and Avallac’hs Laboratory were focused on Geralt. Ciri and Yen had two-three emotional dialogues,
depending on your choices. I think it should be visible regardless of your choice. I don’t see why
Ciri and the quest where you help her with business in Novigrad couldn’t include Yennefer and Triss.
Not just Geralt. At least briefly, a bit of mother-daughter-father interactions with Ciri, Geralt and Yen.
What I really liked was their small talk between the main dialogues in Avallac’hs lab.
When Yennefer is opening the entrance, Ciri talks to her and drops a BoE reference.
Why isn’t this more frequent? They looked like mother and daughter from the books.
What I liked a little bit less was Yennefer convincing Ciri that Emhyr is a good guy
on the ship, however this needs to be included for the empress ending, which had
a very solid background - Yen and her relationship with Emhyr was portrayed with
mutual respect. We saw how Yennefer was insisting on reports to Emhyr, then her
letter to him etc. All of this brings another question - why wasn’t Yennefer together
with Ciri and Geralt when they went to see Emhyr? This could be done very easily,
the circumstances could be changed accordingly. I don't understand why did CDPR
subtly present that Yennefer had plans for Ciri, or actually had Ciri say so herself,
and then suddenly in the end Ciri says that Yennefer wasn't part of it and she doesn't
even bother to bid her farewell nor inform her she's an empress? This is beyond me.
Yennefer and Ciri weren't shown together in the witcheress ending either. Just Geralt.
It could be shown for at least 2 or 3 seconds even if you romanced Triss. It’s still her
mother and she should be there. Another example would be the ship cutscene where
Geralt and Ciri talk and laugh together, Yennefer just looks at them from the distance.
Why isn’t she with them? I could ask the same question for way too many occasions.
You have an amazing team full of dedicated people who can write, animate and create.
Nobody else listens to community more than you do, so here was my opinion with most
common ideas and suggestions from the forum. Hopefully you can look into this and
at least give Yennefer some respect from her daughter. I’m not the only one who feels
like Ciri could show a bit more love and trust. If you can’t or don’t want to create new
dialogues or cutscenes, then please at least consider a little bit warmer body language.
Geralt and Yennefer are ready to die for each other and we know that just from their facial
expressions and gesticulation. They don’t even need to talk. I don’t have that feeling with
Ciri and Yen. Cirilla often acts distanced and there isn't any common sense behind it.
It's ironic how Ciri sits, walks, talks and acts just like her mother. Similarities are perfect.
4) About Ciri and Yennefer
5) Yennefer and her destiny
5) Mask of Uroboros, Freya's Garden and the Empress ending
And finally, discussing the writing flaws in "Last Wish" quest
1) Childhood and puberty
I'll try to keep it short. As we could see in Swallow’s Tower, her father was abusive
and her mother didn’t really side with her either and just failed to protect Yennefer.
I can’t imagine how hard it must be growing up as a hunchback. You are nothing
but a laughing stock for all the other kids, especially ‘back then’. It’s very difficult
to make friends or find some closure. She didn’t find any love in the place where
it should have been given to her no matter the circumstances - her home. Luckily,
I don’t know what it feels like - having nowhere to go, nobody to trust and lean on.
We can only speculate how Yennefer ended up in Aretuza. I doubt she ran away
from her parents and/or got there on her own, granted she was a little hunchback.
Did somebody take her? Did her parents give her to somebody or sent her there?
Maybe her parents travelled with her to Aretuza, just to get rid of her? Or perhaps
it was a humble act? Not necessarily by her father, maybe at least by her mother?
To give Yennefer a chance in life and escape the torture? Who knows. Sapkowski
didn’t give us any details on this topic, and so all we can do is make assumptions
based on what we know from his books. Yennefer somehow ended up in Aretuza,
and started her magic training. Possibly, she thought she would finally find at least
a little bit of happiness, or a cozy place to stay for the night. Again, based on what
I know, I can assume that she only found the latter, to some extent. Yennefer was
still a hunchback before she tried to commit suicide. She probably didn’t find any
friends at all, and was once again nothing but a laughing stock for the other kids.
I know it was a school of magic. She got education, also a place to stay at night.
But was it any better than what she already had to endure? Without the torment,
of course, but still. She probably had nobody to turn to and spend some nice time
with and get necessary attention a child deserves. Same situation and frustration.
What we can say for sure, or let’s say assume safely, is that Yennefer murdered
her parents after she got to Aretuza, because of reasons (and assumptions) that
were mentioned above... Whether it was during or after her studies, I’m guessing
Yennefer wasn’t a hunchback anymore and, most likely, was a trained sorceress.
Andrzej Sapkowski - The Sword of Destiny - A Shard of Ice
She lay next to him without putting out the lantern.
She was unable to sleep in the dark, so she never put out the light.
Whether the lamp was a night light or candle, it always had to burn to the last.
Always. Another eccentricity. Yennefer had an incredible amount of eccentricities.
Andrzej Sapkowski - Time of Contempt - Chapter Three
He looked at the cabinet.
‘Yen?’
‘I am here.’
‘When you studied in Aretuza...
When you slept in a room like this...
Did you have a doll without which you couldn’t fall asleep?
A doll which laid on the cabinet during the day?’
‘No,’ Yennefer stirred painfully. ‘I didn’t have a doll.
Don’t ask me about that, Geralt. Please don’t ask me.’
Under the lead, or shall I say under the command of Tissaia de Vries, also known
as the neatest (and severe) sorceress ever, Yennefer was given a second chance,
new life to start over with... Just like Ciri took some of Yennefer’s personality traits,
Yennefer likewise evidently took a lot from Tissaia. The stern but caring sorceress
manifestly trained Yennefer to the very best of her abilities. ‘You will need to work
on yourself. It will not be easy.’ However difficult and painful it all was, she worked.
Fragment of the records of the sorceress school in Aretuza on Thanedd Island
Adept’s name: Yennefer
Former name: Janka
After initial testing confirmed her magical talent, the adept was admitted to Aretuza’s first class.
The girl comes from a pathological family - her father abused her psychically and physically and her mother
failed to support her. This rejection and abuse were likely precipitated by the deformation of the girl’s spinal
column and scapula (she was a hunchback), or possibly by her mixed human-elven bloodline
(she is a quarter elvish, and her mother a half blood).
It was undoubtedly the lingering effects of these traumatic childhood experiences that drove her to
attempt suicide soon after admission to our academy. The girl tried to cut open her forearm veins
and ended up inflicting serious tendon damage (healer documentation attached for reference).
Despite the above, the adept was personally recommended and very highly graded
by the Chancellor of our Academy, Archmistress Tissaia de Vries.
Her deformities and tendon trauma were corrected with the use of higher magic during
her first year, and her further education has fully vindicated the Chancellor’s high opinion.
Adept Yennefer is a highly talented and determined student.
Her results on subsequent exams have remained excellent.
Adept’s name: Yennefer
Former name: Janka
After initial testing confirmed her magical talent, the adept was admitted to Aretuza’s first class.
The girl comes from a pathological family - her father abused her psychically and physically and her mother
failed to support her. This rejection and abuse were likely precipitated by the deformation of the girl’s spinal
column and scapula (she was a hunchback), or possibly by her mixed human-elven bloodline
(she is a quarter elvish, and her mother a half blood).
It was undoubtedly the lingering effects of these traumatic childhood experiences that drove her to
attempt suicide soon after admission to our academy. The girl tried to cut open her forearm veins
and ended up inflicting serious tendon damage (healer documentation attached for reference).
Despite the above, the adept was personally recommended and very highly graded
by the Chancellor of our Academy, Archmistress Tissaia de Vries.
Her deformities and tendon trauma were corrected with the use of higher magic during
her first year, and her further education has fully vindicated the Chancellor’s high opinion.
Adept Yennefer is a highly talented and determined student.
Her results on subsequent exams have remained excellent.
Who else would be behind Yennefer’s infamous shallow mask of arrogance than
Tissaia de Vries and her education itself? Well, I’m not trying to say that Yennefer
disliked it, not at all. That I cannot say. You usually take what you’re given and try
to make the best of it. Endure and survive. Naturally, that mask is something she
desperately needed to be able to keep moving on. ‘Cry girl. Pour it all out. Make it
your last cry. From now on, you won’t be allowed to cry.’ Well, after read all of this,
can you wonder why she grew to be cynical? Yennefer was taught to suppress her
emotions, very much like Geralt himself. Superficial disguise of a selfish sorceress
who doesn’t tend to show her emotions and cares only about her personal affairs.
I’m not defending her pose. What I’m actually trying to say is that she isn’t posing.
She has more reasons than anyone to not trust people, keep secrets and be aloof.
When you get fucked by life that much, you learn to always be alert. Her mask is
nothing but protection. It helps her deal with the past, also the future. It helps her
deal with the insecurity, fear and shame. Inside, she’s very damaged and fragile.
Cynical sarcasm is her way of dealing with the negative emotions and memories.
Is it safe to show it to the world? Wouldn’t she get abused again? That’s her fight.
Inside. All the time. I don’t applaud and praise her attitude, although I sympathize.
Her character is very realistic. Sadly, horrors like this can happen and it’s up to us
how we deal with them and if we can move on... I suppose people want to escape
from the reality when reading fantasy books or playing video games. And for them,
Yennefer is a painful reminder. Why are some of us bothered with her personality?
What I fail to understand sometimes, is why do people love to hate her so much.
A. Sapkowski wrote a breathtaking story about a woman who is a tough survivor.
She shouldn’t be an object of our condemnation. We don’t know how it feels like
and if we judge her regardless, it bluntly says a lot more about us than about her.
Yennefer fully opens up only in the presence of her loved ones, we all know that.
Geralt and Ciri genuinely love her for the way she is, all her angels and demons.
Not for the way she could be or should’ve been. She doesn’t have to be cautious
or pretend at all - she is herself. It’s literally as if she was putting her mask down,
which is a key to the locked and hidden doors behind it. The highway to her soul.
Yennefer always cared about people in desperate need and helped when it was
necessary. Right now I can think of two demonstrable examples from the books.
I’m not saying she’s overly self-sacrificing, not at all. But she certainly does care
about other people, not just herself and her loved ones. And she saved lives too.
Andrzej Sapkowski - Time of Contempt - Chapter Two
‘Yennefer,’ the dwarf interrupted.
‘I owe you unlimited credit. A long time has passed since the pogrom in Vengerberg.
Perhaps you have forgotten it, but I never will. No member of Giancardi family will.
How much do you need?’
...
‘You have already paid your interest,’ the dwarf raised his head, ‘for the whole Giancardi
family, Yennefer, during the pogrom in Vengerberg. Let's not talk about it anymore.’
Andrzej Sapkowski - The Swallow’s Tower - Chapter Nine
‘On the steps of Kaer Trolde, leading to the seaport,’ the priestess reminded her, smiling.
‘When the ships arrived in the sound. I stood over you as you helped a pregnant woman,
who was about to lose her child... On your knees, without worrying about your very expensive
camlet dress. I saw that and will never again tell stories of callous and calculating sorceresses.’
2) Infertility and motherhood
As much as I wanted to avoid this topic - to save myself from the inevitable tears,
I couldn’t for one simple reason: this is what defines Yennefer, shapes character.
Ciri is the symbol of fertillity, the turning point for the relationship between Geralt
and Yennefer. It’s where their relationship leads. Without their adoptive daughter,
the story makes absolutely no sense, the characters were simply written this way.
Early in the books, their relationship is obviously doomed to failure and extinction.
If you either refuse to, or fail to thoroughly portray the most essential and driving
relationships between the imported characters, you are wasting a lot of potential.
First and foremost, the whole trio. Their time together is what helps all of them to
advance and evolve. It’s one of the most crucial parts, which obviously deserved
a lot more attention than it received thus far. Secondly, Yennefer and her mother
and daughter relationship with Ciri. Yennefer is more than just a simple romance
option and Geralt’s lover. She’s a mother and a woman who makes decisions for
her daughter and for Geralt - because they both know her, love her and trust her.
The fact that their safety is her leading priority when making decisions, is nothing
new to them. Yennefer’s character is clearly motivated by these relationships, it’s
what helps her survive every day. If you brush them under the carpet, what is left
is more or less just an empty shell (aka love interest) without its original meaning.
The intended purpose - the way the story was once told by the author, is missing.
And the unavoidable result - the characters took a noticeable hit in their portrayal.
During the course of all 7 [8] books, we could see her maternity help her develop
a lot as a human being. It was her motherhood that helped Yennefer to overcome
her fear and darkness. Under the black mask, we could see a beautiful white light.
We were getting closer and closer, step by step, firstly seeing her from a distance,
very far away, but slowly approaching, only to finally give in completely and smile.
Her ‘crusade’ wasn’t easy at all and demanded a lot of sacrificing... But eventually,
Yennefer was able to win her fight and meet happiness. That’s the most important
aspect of her character written by Sapkowski. Her maternity is where all the things
about Yennefer begin and end. It’s everything. And somehow, reasoning unknown,
this fact, blindingly obvious to anyone who read the books, was mostly just ignored
in TW3, almost entirely after you find Ciri. Where’s Yennefer’s main characteristic?
Why did she spend such a long time looking for her daughter only to end up being
left out and thrown away after she finally finds her? Why doesn’t Yennefer support
Ciri and stand beside her? Her character is worthless this way. And the reason I’m
so ‘upset’ about this - I believe that Sapkowski’s message, his work and characters
deserved a lot more justice and description than they received. To be honest, I feel
like Yennefer’s character in TW3 is used as a mere plot tool and a romance option.
She drives the story, that’s true. But ironically only until you find Ciri... That was her
role in the game and that’s where her part ends. Yennefer doesn’t get her deserved
appreciation and recognition, not even from her own daughter. All book fans noticed
this issue, and so we already have an informative thread addressing it. Link is below.
The unfulfilled love between Yennefer and Ciri and an incomplete family
Andrzej Sapkowski - Blood of Elves - Ending of Chapter Six / Beginning of Chapter Seven
No one is born a wizard. We still know too little about genetics and the mechanisms of heredity.
We sacrifice too little time and means on research. Unfortunately, we constantly try to pass on
inherited magical abilities in, so to say, a natural way. Results of these pseudo-experiments
can be seen all too often in town gutters and within temple walls. We see too many of them,
and too frequently come across morons and women in a catatonic state, dribbling seers who
soil themselves, seeresses, village oracles and miracle-workers, cretins whose minds are
degenerate due to the inherited, uncontrolled Force.These morons and cretins can also
have offspring, can pass on abilities and thus degenerate further. Is anyone in a position
to foresee or describe how the last link in such a chain will look? Most of us wizards lose
the ability to procreate due to somatic changes and dysfunction of the pituitary gland.
Some wizards - usually women - attune to magic while still maintaining efficiency of the gonads.
They can conceive and give birth - and have the audacity to consider this happiness
and a blessing. But I repeat: no one is born a wizard. And no one should be born one!
Conscious of the gravity of what I write, I answer the question posed at the Congress in Cidaris.
I answer emphatically: each one of us must decide who she wants to be - a wizard or a mother.
I demand all apprentices be sterilized. Without exception.
Tissaia de Vries, The Poisoned Source
That’s the price Yennefer had to pay for becoming a sorceress - her possibility
of having a child. However, that decision was made for her by Tissaia de Vries,
her mentor. She stripped her off that opportunity before Yennefer even realized
how important will pregnancy become for her. She could’t be a mother, but she
craved for it anyway. She would do anything for a baby. Such was her despair.
The only thing Yennefer proceeds to care about after graduating from Aretuza
and being a qualified sorceress is curing her infertility. This is the most crucial
part of her character development in the books. Ciri is what helps her move on
and finally silence her demons. It’s the same for Geralt. Ciri is something more.
The fact that Yennefer was infertile was completely destroying her and added
even more tragedy to the whole dysfunctional mix of low self-esteem, shame
and fear... Yet another reason for Yennefer to doubt herself and be insecure.
While other sorceresses were mostly interested in riches or power, she was
just trying to regain the possiblity of baring a child, at all costs. Her maternal
instinct was extremely strong, her dark past obviously had a lot to do with it.
Being an infertile sorceress with such a past, she didn’t believe she’s worthy.
Can I be loved? Do I even deserve to be loved? But am I capable of loving?
Somebody has genuine feelings for me, however, can I equally return them?
And then Ciri saves them both. She helps Yennefer and Geralt win the fight.
Andrzej Sapkowski - The Sword of Destiny - A Shard of Ice
'There are some things... you cannot obtain, even through magic.
And some gifts you cannot accept unless you are able to give something in return.
Something equally valuable.
Otherwise, such a gift will slip through your fingers, like a shard of ice melting in a closed fist.
There will remain only regret, a sense of loss and guilt.
I am a sorceress, Geralt.
The power I possess over matter is a gift. A gift I reciprocate.
I paid for it. With everything I had. There is nothing left.'
...
Forgive me.
I cannot accept your gift.
I have nothing to give you in return, that would adequately express my gratitude.
That’s the truth.
Polish original: ‘Nie ma we mnie niczego, czym mogłabym ci się odwdzięczyć.’
I have nothing inside me (that could return your gift). That’s just fucked up...
Andrzej Sapkowski - The Sword of Destiny - Something More
'Belleteyn!' she cried suddenly. Geralt felt the shoulders pressed against his chest rise and fall.
'They have fun. They celebrate the eternal cycle of nature. And us? What do we do?
We, the relics, those condemned to death, to extermination and oblivion.
Nature is reborn, the cycle repeats itself. But not us, Geralt. We can't perpetuate ourselves.
We are denied that possibility. We have inherited the gift to do extraordinary things with nature,
sometimes against it, but we have been deprived of what is most simple and natural in return.
What does it matter that we live longer than humans? There is no spring after the winter.
We are not reborn, our end carries us with it. But something draws us to the fires,
even though our presence is a cruel joke, a sacrilege against this festival.'
She fell silent. He didn't like to see her fall into such darkness.
He knew the reason too well. It's starting to gnaw at her again, he thought.
There had been a time when it seemed that she had forgotten or accepted her fate.
He moved his shoulders, rocking her like a child. She didn't resist.
Geralt wasn't surprised. He knew that she needed it.
Yennefer’s infertility plays an important role in the short stories already. Actually, we all
read about this pitiful situation she was in even before her very first meeting with Geralt.
The Voice of Reason VI, where Geralt discusses it with Nenneke, which is followed by
The Last Wish. Sapkowski tried his best to show us how much it mattered to Yennefer
by making this the first longer mention of her, prior to reading about how these two met.
Yennefer passages from the first four books by Sapkowski
Infertility issue from the short stories + Blood of Elves and Time of Contempt passages
After Yennefer finally found what she has been searching for such a long time,
a child, daughter, her adoptive daughter, we could all clearly see her character
develop a lot... She became more caring towards other people too. Her hidden
tenderness was awakened, screaming with delight. Yennefer finally had her little
ugly one to take care of, and vice versa. Ciri too, mostly unknowingly, took care
of Yennefer and helped her win the fight with her past, eventually she was finally
able to live with it. She could surely be strict at times. How is this any argument?
A child needs to be taught manners, especially Ciri - she could be very impudent.
Yennefer inherently decided to take on such a responsibility with all her vigilance.
She was strict, but within reason and loving, but without borders. She respected
the chance she was given with all her being, she wanted to polish that gemstone
to its perfection. This was what she always wanted to live for. Cirilla was her very
deserved closure and redemption. The day Yennefer met with her daughter, she
was reborn. CDPR decided to ignore this undoubtedly fundamental relationship
in The Witcher 3 and to some people, Yennefer is a ‘selfish and cold sorceress’.
TW3 can indeed leave people with with such an impression and so can some of
the short stories. That’s why full portrayal of the relationships from the pentalogy
is so important, mainly the whole trio and some mother and daughter cutscenes.
To be honest, in the game we see her short story version, not the caring mother.
Sometimes it can work, but in the end it’s nothing but a shadow of her character.
I hope this post helped you with understanding her personality and motives a bit
better, since The Witcher 3, apparently, often does a very poor job in this regard.
I’m not blaming the writers, don’t get me wrong. I do love the game (300+ hours).
They just didn’t picture some crucial parts of the relationships between the newly
imported characters, and that in my opinion, ended up hurting the main narrative.
What we see in The Witcher 3 is just a fragment of Yennefer. A very small piece.
Her character is heavily affected by Ciri’s love. If you replace that with insecurity
and have Ciri doubt Yennefer’s loyalty instead of trusting her (any explanation?)
then there’s going to be a completely different Yennefer, who’s lacking her main
motive and a good chunk of her caring heart - which is why she might strike you
as a selfish and cold sorceress. Combine that with even weirder writing, I guess
the best example would be Ermion (Mousesack) and you get a character whom
hardly possesses any genuinely good personality traits as written by the author.
That means Yennefer of Vengerberg by Andrzej Sapkowski. Very unfortunately,
Act 3 is the root of all evil. Until you find Cirilla, during all these hours, Yennefer
shows how much she cares for her and how strong their bond is. What happens
afterwards is just beyond me. Without any explanation at all, Yennefer suddenly
loses her daughter. Her trust and love. No caring words between them - mother,
daughter, nothing. Their body language is also quite underdeveloped and needs
more attention in my opinion. A few smiles here and there and warmer gestures.
Eyes can say a lot. Ciri’s love and presence change Yennefer as a person. I fail
to see that in the game. No matter how hard I try. There are some attempts, but
mostly just subtle remarks. Have them spend more time together, cry and laugh.
Why she looks at Yennefer with confusion and doubt instead of love and pride?
I think it hurts them both, in terms of storytelling. Ciri’s portrayal also takes a hit.
Try to picture all the missed potential and the narrative opportunities. It’s visible
in Act 3. Yennefer’s character makes no sense and loses most of its meaning if
Ciri isn’t included. It’s where Yennefer’s character was heading for all the years.
All the pain and suffering, only to finally reach the conclusion and fulfill purpose.
That’s the way her character was written and initially meant to be. If you remove
the destination of her path, the path itself loses its relevance and a few hundred
pages go to waste... And if you decide to ignore the path, destination itself lacks
the importance and loses all value. We are talking about extremely complicated
characters, and in that case, I daresay simplification is the worst approach ever.
3) Community suggestions
This post will include all suggestions for TW3. Should it be Ciri or Yennefer, they both help Geralt “evolve”
as a human being and discover his suppressed feelings. The most important thing is that the whole family
works together as a unit. It’s not only about Geralt and Ciri or Geralt & Yennefer. Ciri + Yennefer is a very
crucial part of it. Would Geralt and Yennefer work without Ciri? Never. Why isn’t this essential part of their
relationship shown more in the game? I completely understand that Geralt of Rivia is the main protagonist,
so his relationship with Ciri is the main focus, we also get plenty of beautiful Yennefer and Geralt moments.
Why are mother and father portrayed together perfectly, father with his daughter are portrayed very well too,
but for some reason mother and daughter don’t spend enough time with each other? New cutscenes and
dialogues would take a lot of work. What we could begin with is tweaking their already existing moments,
adding more love, sympathy and mutual trust, mostly from Ciri’s side. Their relationship has a deep core
and only grows stronger with time in books... They both walked through hell and would die for each other.
We weren’t given any logical explanation from Ciri about her behaviour towards Yennefer in the game at all.
She would never act so distanced and if she did, she would explain herself... Few moments here and there,
but overall Ciri acts like she doesn’t trust Yennefer. I don’t think that showing a little bit of their relationship,
love and trust would hurt at all. There could be very easy and possible tweaks that could create this feeling,
without overly focusing on their relationship and dragging all the attention from Geralt and Ciri relationship.
I think that showing their relationship more would only benefit Geralt and Ciri, even if Triss is your romance
option you still get to discover Ciri and her relationship with Yennefer to it’s full extent. It helps the narrative.
I perceive this might seem like a step that could make freedom of choice and diversity of options less balanced,
but I don’t think people would complain. It can make the game a lot better not just for the book readers, but also
new players and everyone who loves Triss Merigold... If we're interpreting characters from Sapkowski’s universe,
we shouldn’t disregard one of the most important parts, which is a family of three. Their love plays a crucial part.
Ciri is representing the worst effect of humanity, as all of us tend to abuse or destroy what is precious to us.
Geralt of Rivia and Yennefer of Vengerberg were both damaged inside and didn’t know what love feels like.
Geralt never had a real family. Yennefer grew up with a family that tortured her, which resulted in a tragedy.
She tried to commit suicide and later on murdered her parents. The suicide attempt was unsuccessful and
under the lead of Tissaia de Vreis, she was given a shallow mask of arrogance, which helped her fight with
her demons, hide her damaged soul and somehow keep moving on. The only thing she eventually proceeds
to care about is curing her infertility and having a child. We all know the rest of the story. Geralt and Yennefer
find each other, it doesn’t work because of their terrible past and low self-esteem, they are both insecure and
don’t believe they deserve be loved... They both needed something more... Cirilla, their adoptive daughter.
While Geralt and Ciri love each other, the daughter will always be closer to her mother.
It’s natural and it’s shown in Sapkowski’s books. Their relationship is more profound.
Geralt wasn’t really looking for a family, for him it was all just a sudden turn of events.
Yennefer however spent her whole life seeking for love and possibility to have a child.
Ciri and her relationship with Geralt needs to stay superior, there’s no doubt about it.
But does Yennefer and her relationship with Ciri have to be brushed under the carpet?
Let’s take a look at existing suggestions, all in one pdf. Please read it carefully.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B78WZJ66We2kdXpRLU9paVNtbTQ/view
I hope that after reading all of this, you can understand why does including at least
a bit of mutual love and appreciation from Ciri to Yennefer have such a high demand.
They’re both book characters, just like Geralt and we don’t like when they’re ignored.
How to balance this with the main story, freedom of choice and diversity of options?
I don’t know... I've never done this, but CDPR doesn't need any guidance or scripts.
They've shown us what they're capable of, their teams are full of qualified, awesome
people who can do impossible if they want to. Pretty please, consider some tweaks.
What concerns not just me personally, but thousands of other players and fans:
Yen and Ciri don’t get enough time together. Kaer Morhen and Avallac’hs Laboratory.
If this can’t be fixed with additional dialogues or small cutscenes because it wouldn’t
be in harmony with your general idea about the game, please consider tweaking already
existing dialogues and interactions. Add more sympathy, love and trust from Ciri’s side.
More caring words between them... More subtle gestures and greater show of emotions.
The moment they have with each other when you refuse to visit Skjall’s grave with Ciri
is sadly the only genuinely emotional moment they share with each other after being
reunited at Kaer Morhen. I would personally focus on Kaer Morhen. Better introduction.
Ciri could also say something you know, mother or whatever. But this way I’m quickly
getting to big suggestions which would include a lot more work. I’d start with this post:
Yen and Ciri having an emotional moment if Geralt refuses to visit Skjall's grave
- Ciri asking Geralt about Yennefer when he finds her at Isle of Mists
- Ciri and her reaction when finally meeting Yennefer at Kaer Morhen
What I mentioned on the forum is Ciri insisting on having Yen included in her talk with Geralt on Isle of Mists,
but this would require to rework the scene completely and have them talk at Kaer Morhen, all three together.
What could be done instead is keeping it as it is, but Yen and Ciri get a similar talk at Kaer Morhen right after.
After the fight with Wild Hunt cosplayers, Vesemir dying and Ciri fighting her emotions:
- Creating new interactions or tweaking already existing ones
- Including Yennefer a bit more in Geralt’s interactions with Ciri
This could apply to so many things: snowball fight (Yen comforting Ciri beforehand
or afterwards, maybe even cheering for Ciri while Ciri and Geralt snowball together)
Avallac’hs lab was awesome, Yen comforts Ciri if Geralt refuses to visit Skjall’s grave.
I don’t see why Yennefer wasn’t included when you agree with Ciri and visit the grave.
Final Battle Preparations and all Act 3 after defeating Imlerith. I know my suggestion
for this isn’t realistic as it would take a very deep rework and a great amount of time,
but it includes all four most important relationships - Ciri, Geralt, Yennefer and Triss,
spending their time together. Questions get answered, things get cleared up. Shall you
decide to take at least something from it, the whole relationship between them in TW3
would be portrayed a lot better and players wouldn’t feel punished for their decisions.
Once again here is the post: Act 3 - Final Battle Preparations - Ciri + Yen + Triss
Scholdarr - How to change Lodge scene to present Yen as Ciri’s mother figure
One more scene with Yennefer and Ciri being the main focus wouldn't hurt. Lodge’s eavesdropping
and Avallac’hs Laboratory were focused on Geralt. Ciri and Yen had two-three emotional dialogues,
depending on your choices. I think it should be visible regardless of your choice. I don’t see why
Ciri and the quest where you help her with business in Novigrad couldn’t include Yennefer and Triss.
Not just Geralt. At least briefly, a bit of mother-daughter-father interactions with Ciri, Geralt and Yen.
What I really liked was their small talk between the main dialogues in Avallac’hs lab.
When Yennefer is opening the entrance, Ciri talks to her and drops a BoE reference.
Why isn’t this more frequent? They looked like mother and daughter from the books.
What I liked a little bit less was Yennefer convincing Ciri that Emhyr is a good guy
on the ship, however this needs to be included for the empress ending, which had
a very solid background - Yen and her relationship with Emhyr was portrayed with
mutual respect. We saw how Yennefer was insisting on reports to Emhyr, then her
letter to him etc. All of this brings another question - why wasn’t Yennefer together
with Ciri and Geralt when they went to see Emhyr? This could be done very easily,
the circumstances could be changed accordingly. I don't understand why did CDPR
subtly present that Yennefer had plans for Ciri, or actually had Ciri say so herself,
and then suddenly in the end Ciri says that Yennefer wasn't part of it and she doesn't
even bother to bid her farewell nor inform her she's an empress? This is beyond me.
Yennefer and Ciri weren't shown together in the witcheress ending either. Just Geralt.
It could be shown for at least 2 or 3 seconds even if you romanced Triss. It’s still her
mother and she should be there. Another example would be the ship cutscene where
Geralt and Ciri talk and laugh together, Yennefer just looks at them from the distance.
Why isn’t she with them? I could ask the same question for way too many occasions.
You have an amazing team full of dedicated people who can write, animate and create.
Nobody else listens to community more than you do, so here was my opinion with most
common ideas and suggestions from the forum. Hopefully you can look into this and
at least give Yennefer some respect from her daughter. I’m not the only one who feels
like Ciri could show a bit more love and trust. If you can’t or don’t want to create new
dialogues or cutscenes, then please at least consider a little bit warmer body language.
Geralt and Yennefer are ready to die for each other and we know that just from their facial
expressions and gesticulation. They don’t even need to talk. I don’t have that feeling with
Ciri and Yen. Cirilla often acts distanced and there isn't any common sense behind it.
It's ironic how Ciri sits, walks, talks and acts just like her mother. Similarities are perfect.
4) About Ciri and Yennefer
5) Yennefer and her destiny
5) Mask of Uroboros, Freya's Garden and the Empress ending
And finally, discussing the writing flaws in "Last Wish" quest
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One more - without blurred face - what actress is that? hmm
-Sigh- we all know it's you and you're simply fishing for compliments...
Your own avatar is much better
*paint?
Hey! You leave my 60 second Photoshop skillz alone!
:'(
Fringilla VigoOne more - without blurred face - what actress is that? hmm