Yennefer of Vengerberg (all spoilers) - The Revival

[Lytha]

Yeah, it's surprising. The witcherbooks translation in my native language is from the guy who also translated Pratchett's Diskworld novels. He's writing very well. The writing style is entertaining and it's fluid.

Only major pet peeve I have with him is that he feels compelled to "translate" names, and I just hate that.


Hrm, I don't know, maybe the English translators just don't have enough exercise to write well? I guess it's hard to find an English author/translator who knows Polish, and knows how to write captivating and well?


I'm halfway through Sword of Destiny now, and Yen really doesn't shine so far, by the way.

And I'm a bit shocked how few things I remembered from last time I read the first 3 books. Must've been the painkiller haze that totally made me forget anything. 2011 sucked for me.

 

[StandardEpiphany]

I'm halfway through Sword of Destiny now, and Yen really doesn't shine so far, by the way.

And I'm a bit shocked how few things I remembered from last time I read the first 3 books. Must've been the painkiller haze that totally made me forget anything. 2011 sucked for me.

That's another thing, right? Say your introduction to Yennefer is the third game and you find her to be overall unpleasant, bitchy, condescending, etc. You then voice your opinion and a bunch of helpful people tell you to READ THE BOOKS!!!! You start reading the books, but during the short stories she is not exactly on her best behaviour either, and it's not odd that the off-putting feelings persist. There's enough "wrong" with the character to cause a negative reception. Yennefer is never "lovely", and she is not particularly warm or empathetic, so at the end of the day I'm not surprised that some folk are honestly repelled and I don't think it's just a matter of them not getting what the character is about.

 

[Gilthoniel]

the new Gwent game newsletter has really nice selection of cards:

 

[Lytha]

So at the end of the day I'm not surprised that some folk are honestly repelled and I don't think it's just a matter of them not getting what the character is about.

So should we tell them to READ THE BOOKS, START WITH TIME OF CONTEMPT?



Thinking back, I started without any deeper knowledge about Yen, too (having only read the early books in a painkiller induced cognitively strange time some years back, then having watched that series on youtube (in which she does not come off as any good), and having a friend who firmly told me: "yeah, Yen is like the ex, and Triss is the reliable and sweet new one"). I then had a bad impression of her in White Orchard.

On the other hand, I had no particular deep feelings for Triss from TW2 or anything either, and she's not my type. So, I probably was nice to Triss in Novigrad, because that's how I am in games on the first playthrough, but was not totally getting off on it or anything. More like "yeah... whatever".

Then I prematurely went over to Skellige, witnessed that discussion of investigation results between Geralt and Yen and realized that this is what that Geralt felt at home and comfortable with. And nope, I did not pick the compliment lines ("you smell wonderful" *rolleyes*), because I thought that they were cheesy and stupid. I still think that. And due to her bad impression from White Orchard and the discussion about "so, they're 'our agents' now?" in Vizima, she received a few of the more antagonistic lines, and still - "hey, those two just fit." I still never really choose the lovesick lines most of the time. These two fit so much better if there's some tension going on, and I want to let her know what I think of cooperation with good old wifekilling and incestseeking Duny.

No idea how their interactions on Skellige can give off any other impression than "wow, these two fit", but eh... whatever. Maybe it's down to "does someone watch the facial expressions or does someone just stare at the boobs?"... uh. Boob-wise or ridiculous cleavage-wise, Keira should win the shipping race anyway, actually. Ugh.

Reading Time of Contempt -> Lady of the Lake reinforced that impression ("whoa, these two fit.") I did only read those books then because I couldn't find fan translations of Blood of Elves or of the short stories, and didn't feel yet like spending money on the books at that time. Maybe I should be happy about that in retrospect? Still glad that I spent the money now to get the whole series at last for my bookshelf and nighttime reading. And so looking forward to anything involving my dear Regis.

 

[toudis815]

Little off top: stop complaing that much about translations (especially "brzydulka" - there's no perfect way to translate that. Books are always lost in translation. If I was English fan being intrested in reading Witcher, after reading few last pages of this thread I would give up on that. Keep calm and spread witcher around the world !

 

[StandardEpiphany]

So should we tell them to READ THE BOOKS, START WITH TIME OF CONTEMPT?

Ha ha! Or, alternatively, just read these specific book excerpts that we've selected where she comes off well. This is quite funny to me because, believe it or not, I liked her in the short stories. Not as my spirit animal or fantasy BFF or whatnot, but as a compelling character.

 

[Sephira]

I'm halfway through Sword of Destiny now, and Yen really doesn't shine so far, by the way.

And I'm a bit shocked how few things I remembered from last time I read the first 3 books. Must've been the painkiller haze that totally made me forget anything. 2011 sucked for me.

She is really a Shard of Ice that tries to melt a bit near the end.

---------- Updated at 11:14 AM ----------

That's another thing, right? Say your introduction to Yennefer is the third game and you find her to be overall unpleasant, bitchy, condescending, etc. You then voice your opinion and a bunch of helpful people tell you to READ THE BOOKS!!!! You start reading the books, but during the short stories she is not exactly on her best behaviour either, and it's not odd that the off-putting feelings persist. There's enough "wrong" with the character to cause a negative reception. Yennefer is never "lovely", and she is not particularly warm or empathetic, so at the end of the day I'm not surprised that some folk are honestly repelled and I don't think it's just a matter of them not getting what the character is about.

Fanatism is always bad, unless it revolves on memes.

I'd say it's often the case because I haven't read a single opinion voiced by those folks involving the character presented in all the books, sure one can share the thought of that character being the not so pleasant person but everyone knows that in the books even the poor ice queen here, but this is one thing, another one is speaking generally of a character by knowing only 1/3 of the whole story.

 

[Sunsibar]

- Also Yennefer calling Ciri "ugly one" was a mistranslation from Polish, she calls her more like "her ugly duckling". At the end of Blood of Elves Ciri says that she wants to be as pretty as her, but Yennefer says that she is indeed very pretty. She states that she is very lucky. And the ugly duckling is more like a tease rather then being cruel in my opinion.

Thanks for this info I was wondering that ugly one because it sounded... not right

 

[meb9]

I am continuing to read the books (after finishing the game) and was greatly touched by these two things from Yennefer: 1 - she is grateful to Dandelion for having travelled with Geralt so G isn't always alone. And 2 - she tries to get her banker to ensure Geralt's struggling finances are secretly improved. However I am now at the bit where she is parading him around the Wizards' feast and she seems cold and selfish once more! I have to say these books are eminently readable, even in the poor translations.

 

[Lytha]

Hm. Having now read Blood of Elves, Yen definitely comes around already in that book, in my opinion.

- starts out with rescuing Dandelion, who's important for Geralt
- writes that legendary letter; and I can absolutely feel with her about her impression that she was scorned quite badly.
- and then, despite feeling scorned, she goes ahead and helps anyway. And she does that even without being primarily motivated by the hopeful idea of "not having to sleep alone in the best bed of Kaer Morhen tonight"... which seemed to have been the primary motivation of someone else earlier in the book. As a matter of fact, Geralt isn't even anywhere near the temple of Melitele when Yen is there, so getting some sex is clearly not in the list of her motivations.
- then she apparently does an excellent job at that magical education of Ciri
- and they develop a mother/daughter relationship quickly.

Definitely a good impression.

Let's tell the people: If you really must ask why we like Yennefer, then READ THE BOOKS AND START WITH BLOOD OF ELVES!

 

[Guest 3847602]

Let's tell the people: If you really must ask why we like Yennefer, then READ THE BOOKS AND START WITH BLOOD OF ELVES!

I started liking her in The Bounds of Reason and A Shard of Ice, but than again, I'm a sucker for flawed characters. But yes, in each subsequent book she reveals more and more of her positive traits and it gets easier and easier for more people to like her.

 

[meb9]

Can anyone explain this to me - at one point (I think in the short stories) it was mentioned that Geralt left Yennefer overnight with no warning, just leaving a note; and then more recently (in Time of Contempt) Yennefer has told her sorceress friends that she gave up Geralt, not the other way round. Is this two separate partings do you think - or did Yennefer hide what really happened from the Sorceresses? Still don't have a 'mother/daughter' feel for the Ciri -Y relationship by the way. She's too harsh and, as one character witnesses, 'very strict'. OK, some mothers are like that - but not the best ones.

 

[StandardEpiphany]

- writes that legendary letter

And let's be honest, if only for that letter, Yennefer deserves a nod and a cookie. Quality snark goes a long way.

 

[Rawls]

Is this two separate partings do you think - or did Yennefer hide what really happened from the Sorceresses? Still don't have a 'mother/daughter' feel for the Ciri -Y relationship by the way. She's too harsh and, as one character witnesses, 'very strict'. OK, some mothers are like that - but not the best ones.

It's ambiguous. I personally think it's Yen lying to the sorceresses (that's more interesting ... so I like to believe that's the case).

Spoiler

TBH it's gonna be Tower of the Swallows before you see the lengths Yen is willing to go to in helping those she loves. The harsh exterior hides deep loyalty for those she truly cares about. I didn't really start liking her until the later sections from her point of view. She always interesting in series, but only likable towards the later books.

 

[meb9]

Sapkowski is so often ambiguous... I like that about his writing.

 

[StandardEpiphany]

Still don't have a 'mother/daughter' feel for the Ciri -Y relationship by the way. She's too harsh and, as one character witnesses, 'very strict'. OK, some mothers are like that - but not the best ones.

Yes, but then again Yennefer is not her mother. At this point they had but a few months together, most of which was spent training and gaining each other's trust. She didn't raise this kid, nor did she seem interested in pretending to play parent to a bratty teen, at least at first. She stumbled into this role and gradually changed to accomodate it, which is no small feat for an emotionally stunted 90 year old sorceress.

The tutor-pupil relationship deepens and eventually evolves into a familial tie (ersatz, perhaps, but still) because both sides lacked and craved affection; in Yennefer's case even lacked the basic ability to offer affection. You can argue that the "family" angle is rushed from a temporal perspective, and realistically speaking it is, but the whole thing is more symbolic than anything else, or a narrative tool if you will.

There remains a level of propriety between the two of them throughout their relationship, but I would say that the lengths to which both are willing to go to (later on) for one another proves that, however unorthodox and unlikely, there is something akin to a mother-daughter bond there.

 

[meb9]

Yes, but then again Yennefer is not her mother. At this point they had but a few months together, most of which was spent training and gaining each other's trust. She didn't raise this kid, nor did she seem interested in pretending to play parent to a bratty teen, at least at first. ...the lengths to which both are willing to go (later on) for one another proves that, however unorthodox and unlikely, there is something akin to a mother-daughter bond there.

I shall watch that develop then, as I read on. BTW Ciri doesn't seem bratty to me at all. As teenagers go she is rather lovely - especially in view of what she has been through. I do think the author is brilliant at portraying the teen mind (for example in the adorable letter Ciri writes to Geralt) - I wonder if he has kids himself? I feel he has a deep knowledge of human beings of a variety of sorts which makes him portray different ages/genders/types in a compelling way. And I do really enjoy Yennefer's snarkiness - although it is over the top towards her loved ones, so far.

 

[Raven-beauty]

I started liking her in The Bounds of Reason and A Shard of Ice, but than again, I'm a sucker for flawed characters. But yes, in each subsequent book she reveals more and more of her positive traits and it gets easier and easier for more people to like her.

I loved her the moment when Sapkowski describes the messy room she is staying in (from the last wish) + the moment she enchanted Geralt to finish some payback business, and afterwards got him out of prison again (How Geralt was spanking that man imao) .

 

[toudis815]

Sapkowski is so often ambiguous

Yes he is, but there's also the fact the at beginning he was just writing short stories for money that were published in magazine, so this ambigousity is to some extend a result of the lack of bigger picture. (in one interview he even said that one day he looked at Geralt - Yennefer relationship a said to himself " Ow,I messed up" )

I wonder if he has kids himself?

A son, who bought magazine "Fantastyka", where Sapko found info about writing contest...and the whole story began

 

[Guest 3847602]

I loved her the moment when Sapkowski describes the messy room she is staying in (from the last wish) + the moment she enchanted Geralt to finish some payback business, and afterwards got him out of prison again (How Geralt was spanking that man imao) .

Well, I liked her in The Last Wish too, I guess I just wasn't THAT impressed by her writing until The Sword of Destiny. So many things about her character started to make more sense in the 2nd book - her obsession with motherhood, for example, was only mentioned in one of the conversations between Nenneke and Geralt in TLW, but seeing and hearing about it from herself in The Bounds of Reason and Something More was very different. It even hinted to me her motivation for capturing the djinn in the previous book.
In short - even if I didn't quite understood Geralt's initial infatuation with her in TLW, I could definitely understand what made him coming back to her by the end of SoD.

Spoiler

It was the djinn's magic, of course. :stuart: