Yennefer of Vengerberg (all spoilers) - The Revival

[ooodrin]

Interesting what Ciri says in 1.10 if Geralt kicked out both women.

"No sorceress - no problems" ?

I hope that those new lines rewrites the part where Blinky whines about plans for her, so lone wolf can enjoy listening about them.

 

[xxRENEGADExx]

Well...

So... Ciri according to this... is there to reassure the player of their choices? No matter which choices?

At least, she doesn't say that she is happy if Geralt with Triss, like in Yen's case. So from that you can consider her preference Geralt + Yen....but yes - it's too little...simplification.

 

[sv3672]

And here I was hoping an NPC would show a backbone to both Geralt AND the player for once... perfect fantasy I guess.

In my opinion, they just wanted to make the patch as cheap as possible (minimal amount of voice recording), and that means only a small number of NPCs reacting to the player's choice, and none of them negatively (because that would mean Geralt defending his choice = more lines to write and record).

 

[Charcharo]

In my opinion, they just wanted to make the patch as cheap as possible (minimal amount of voice recording), and that means only a small number of NPCs reacting to the player's choice, and none of them negatively (because that would mean Geralt defending his choice = more lines to write and record).

Whilst what you are saying makes sense, and normally I would agree...

Well... these problems ALREADY are in the game's NPCs. Can be seen in multiple scenarios.

So Occam's razor dictates it is the game design philosophy now. Not just a cost cutting method.

 

[sv3672]

So Occam's razor dictates it is the game design philosophy now. Not just a cost cutting method.

Well, the cost cutting and lack of effort put into the relationships (as well as a number of aspects of the main narrative) is also apparent on the existing content in the game. That is why there have been so many complaints in the first place. And for the previous Witcher games, it was also part of the design philosophy that there are no clear "good" and "bad" choices, so that means that if one choice has negative consequences, then so should the other, but usually in a different way. Although the Shani/Triss choice in the first game did not really have any either, other than some unfriendly dialogue from the rejected woman, and some of the NPCs commenting negatively (in TW1 more of them responded in the first place, so that allowed for more varied reactions).

This is... bad writing, bad character development, inferior Bethesda/Bioware game design... *sigh*

TW1 was already inspired in part by BioWare games. TW3 is more of a step towards Bethesda with a focus on creating a large open world with a lot of side-content, while sacrifices are made on the quality of the main quests and characters.

 

[Charcharo]

TW1 was already inspired in part by BioWare games. TW3 is more of a step towards Bethesda with a focus on creating a large open world with a lot of side-content, while sacrifices are made on the quality of the main quests and characters.

There is a gigantic difference between being inspired... and following the same design philosophy. Bioware games right now generally want to never confront the player for example. Or make them even doubt they may be incorrect.

STALKER is inspired from Fallout 1 and 2. And Roadside Picnic... and a shit ton of other stuff. Yet does not work in a very similar way

 

[Kinley]

Could we get back on topic, please?

 

[sv3672]

At least, she doesn't say that she is happy if Geralt with Triss, like in Yen's case. So from that you can consider her preference Geralt + Yen....but yes - it's too little...simplification.

I do not think the developers wanted to use Ciri to create an obviously preferred choice when there was none before the patch. There could have been more interesting reactions from other characters like Vesemir, Lambert, Eskel, Cerys, Zoltan, Dandelion, etc., and some of them already commented on Geralt's relationship with Yennefer before. However, the new dialogue in the patch is unfortunately limited to the 4 main characters, and with a "neutral" Ciri and only few and short dialogues, there was not much room for writing anything more than the simple responses that can be seen in the leak.

 

[Victorzilki]

I do not think the developers wanted to use Ciri to create an obviously preferred choice when there was none before the patch. There could have been more interesting reactions from other characters like Vesemir, Lambert, Eskel, Cerys, Zoltan, Dandelion, etc., and some of them already commented on Geralt's relationship with Yennefer before. However, the new dialogue in the patch is unfortunately limited to the 4 main characters, and with a "neutral" Ciri and only few and short dialogues, there was not much room for writing anything more than the simple responses that can be seen in the leak.

i think is not preferred choice of the reds, but get better with character of Ciri in the lore of The Witcher

 

[sv3672]

Well...she didn't mock that their love=spell. Good start.

She does bring up the topic of the wish in the first dialogue (Payback quest), though:

Spoiler

Ciri: You know… perhaps it's not my concern, but… I'm glad you and Yennefer have ended up together.
Geralt: Me too.
Ciri: You took your time.
Geralt: Hm. Guess we both needed a while to grapple with it.
Ciri: So what was it like? You know, when the wish lost its hold. What did you feel?
Geralt: Hmm. Well, there we were, the two of us, on the mountain top. I looked at her, and…
Geralt: And felt like I was exactly where I was supposed to be. At long last.

At least, she doesn't say that she is happy if Geralt with Triss, like in Yen's case.

For comparison with the above:

Spoiler

Ciri: Worked out nicely, don't you think?
Geralt: What're you talking about?
Ciri: You and Triss. Never expected it, to be honest.
Geralt: Life's full of surprises.
Ciri: So, how did the two of you--?
Geralt: End up together?
Geralt: Hmm. With Yen it was fight after fight, lots of arguments, drama… Not saying it was bad, but…
Ciri: But what?
Geralt: Got o be exhausting. With Triss, it's not. I finally feel… harmony. A calm. Feel like things are the way they're supposed to be.

According to leak: "You are not a dog on chain, Geralt. You are free like a wolf."

If the player chooses no one, then there is probably no new dialogue (at least there wasn't any for that case in the leak), and Ciri says nothing.

 

[wright1978]

I do not think the developers wanted to use Ciri to create an obviously preferred choice when there was none before the patch. There could have been more interesting reactions from other characters like Vesemir, Lambert, Eskel, Cerys, Zoltan, Dandelion, etc., and some of them already commented on Geralt's relationship with Yennefer before. However, the new dialogue in the patch is unfortunately limited to the 4 main characters, and with a "neutral" Ciri and only few and short dialogues, there was not much room for writing anything more than the simple responses that can be seen in the leak.

Definitely don't think they should have used Ciri as an artificial forced barometer of their preferred choice. Think based on what i previously read Ciri's responses in regards of Yen choice and Triss choice are handled well and differently. So i hope the final product leaves me with the same feeling.

 

[Vigilance.492]

The "Blinky" crap was never funny, it still isn't funny, and most importantly, regardless of that, this is not the appropriate thread to have another "Blinky Whine".

If you want to talk about Ciri in relation to Yennefer, go for it, use Blinky to your hearts content when referring to her if you find it so amusing, but this isn't the thread for general Ciri discussion.

 

[Riven-Twain]

A gentle reminder: this thread is meant for the discussion of Yennefer of Vengerberg, and not Ciri. Please try to keep on-topic. Thank you.

 

[xxgwxx]

Ok, when someone 'tests' the new dialogue options, please share your "experiences" here lol..I won't have much time to do another playthrough soon :/ :geraltsad:

 

[Gilthoniel]

It seems the leaked dialogs were true. As xxgwxx asked please share the new scenes here.

 

[Avin]

So I can oficially say how lame I think some of these new lines are.

 

[TreesAreCanon]

It's sad but true (and understandable) when you say that we should discuss Ciri in her topic. Looks like we all got used to the two separated girls in the game. Everyone noticed it. But to cut the writers some slack - we could see how much Yen cared for Ciri (her daughter) throughout the whole process of searching for her. I think it was handled very well, she made tons of some questionable decisions, because Ciri is everything. That was typical Yennefer... Her introduction in Skellige and most of her interactions with Geralt were good as well and I loved all the sarcasm. But what about Ciri and Yennefer? I found their relationship disappointing, it could use some attention... There are many ways to make it look and feel better.

The question is why wasn't it done in the first place? We all spent a big portion of the game looking for Ciri, with a deeply worried Yennefer who is willing to do anything just to find her daughter, only to see their relationship... I mean not to see. There COULD be more. Would five minutes kill anyone? Or at least one more short cutscene? Nope? How about warmer animations then? Hands, eyes and the whole posture Ciri has with Yennefer around... Perhaps even a few caring words?
I would be more than happy with the animations showing a bit more mutual trust, recognition and love. Ciri could smile at Yennefer more often. Gestures and everything. There is so much body language potential, just look at any random NPC.

We have been SPECIFICALLY told (sleep tight @mecha_fish) that the relationship between Ciri and Yennefer was NOT "ignored" because of "the other romance option" a long time ago (romance ruined this game). What was the reason then? As we all know very well, The Witcher 3 is centred on the player... You play as Geralt, you are the only one parent to Ciri and Yennefer plays no role in it. Which is ironic considering how awesome the storytelling in Baron's quest is for example. Either way - this was apparently a game design choice. Adding one or two scenes with Yennefer and Ciri that could really assure us these two are still supposed to be a mother and a daughter, would in the end be nothing more than fan service. And it's not just the portrayal of Yennefer and Ciri, but also of the whole trio (family). They aren't supposed to work just as two pairs, but also as a unit. I don't think this will ever happen though, because again, ROMANCE options. I can't see any Geralt + Ciri + Yennefer content being added (unless EE happens) and so I am very grateful for the nice laboratory quest.

In The Witcher 3, we get to see more than enough of confident and arrogant Yennefer, but as we all know, every coin has two sides. And in my opinion we don't get to see the weak and broken Yen often enough. We don't see the fragile woman who puts her mask down and just wants to love and be loved. We don't get to see the strict but loving mother. The tender and sweet part of her soul can only be seen very rarely in some of her interactions with Geralt. Ciri could give her a hand, however that potential was wasted and unfortunately we don't get to see the depth of their relationship from the pentalogy.

Spoiler: Lady of the Lake Chapter Nine

‘Why have you come here, girl? What for?’
‘For Yennefer. And for my destiny.’

‘Release... Yennefer,’ she managed to get out, coughing with the effort.
‘Release her... And you can do whatever you want with me.’

...

I came here on my own and I gave myself to you. For Yennefer. For her life. Does this seem ridiculous to you?
Then try to take me by force, try to take me the hard way... We will see how fast you lose your desire to laugh.’

'I will try to find Ciri. You shouldn't have left her alone, vampire. You shouldn't have left her alone'
'She demanded it,' Regis explained calmly.
'In a tone and with a posture that both ruled out any discussion. I admit, I was surprised.'

'We had orders...' mumbled the second one while retreating.
'We were ordered to... We were forced to...'
'We have never treated you badly, ma'am,' said the third, licking his dry lips. 'While in prison... Bear witness....'
'Begone,' said Yennefer. Liberated from the dimeritium, she stood straightened with her head raised proudly
and she looked like a giantess. Her tousled black hair reached the vault.
The guards fled. Hunched as if expecting an attack from behind, but none of them looked back.
Yennefer returned to her normal size and threw herself around Geralt's neck.
'I knew you would come for me,' she whispered, searching his mouth with her lips.
'That you would come, no matter what.'
'Let's go,' he said after a moment, gasping for air. 'Now for Ciri.'
'Ciri,' she repeated and her eyes blazed with a fearsome purple flame. 'And Vilgefortz.'

More mercenaries attacked them from just behind the corner of the corridor, near an archway portal.
There were more than ten of them and they were armed with spears and halberds.
They were determined and stubborn. Nonetheless, they went down quickly.
Yennefer immediately struck one of them right in the middle of his chest with a fiery dart.
Geralt spun in a pirouette and fell among the others, his Dwarven Sihil flashing and hissing like a snake.
When four more had fallen, then rest of them fled, clanging and clattering along the corridors.
'Are you all right, Yen?'
'Could not be better.'
Vilgefortz stood under the archway.
'I am impressed,' he said calmly but resonantly. 'I am really impressed, witcher.
You are naive and hopelessly stupid, but your technique is very impressive.'
'Your goons,' replied Yennefer, just as calmly, 'took off and left you at our mercy.
Give me Ciri and we will spare your life.'

And they met, all three of them, in a place where the corridors came together to form and arch.
They met under the dead glances of the alabaster statues.
‘Ciri,’ said The Witcher, rubbing his eyes.
‘Ciri,’ said Yennefer, supported by The Witcher.
‘Geralt,’ said Ciri.
‘Ciri,’ he answered, swallowing the lump in his throat. ‘It is good to see you again.’
‘Lady Yennefer.’
The sorceress freed herself from The Witcher’s arms and straightened with a tremendous effort.
‘Look at yourself, girl,’ she said sternly.
‘Just look at yourself and how you look! Fix your hair! Don't slouch. Come here.’
Ciri walked stiffly over to Yennefer.
Yennefer smoothed her collar and tried to wipe the dried blood from her sleeve.
She fixed her hair, revealing the scar on her cheek.
She hugged her tightly. Very tightly. Geralt saw her hands on Ciri’s back.
He saw her deformed fingers. He did not feel anger, grief or hatred. He felt only fatigue.
And a great desire to be done with it once and for all.
‘Mommy.’
‘Daughter.’
‘Let’s go,’ he decided to interrupt them after a long time.
Ciri sniffed loudly and wiped her nose with the top of her palm.
Yennefer scolded her with a look and rubbed one of her eyes, probably to get rid of a speck of dust.
The Witcher watched the corridor from which Ciri emerged,
as if he was expecting someone else to come out of there.
Ciri shook her head. He understood.
‘Let’s get out of here,’ he repeated.
‘Yes,’ said Yennefer. ‘I want to see the sky.’
‘I will never leave you again,’ said Ciri hollowly. ‘Never.’
‘Let’s get out of here,’ he repeated. ‘Ciri, help Yen.’
‘I don't need help!’
‘Let me help you, mommy.’
There was a staircase in front of them, a grand staircase sinking in smoke,
flickering in the glow of torches and braziers with fire.
Ciri shivered. She saw these stairs. In her dreams and visions.
At the bottom, far away, armed men were waiting.
‘I am tired,’ she whispered.
‘Me too,’ admitted Geralt as he drew Sihil.
‘I am tired of killing.’
‘Me too.’
‘Is there no other way out of here?’
‘No. There is no other way out. Only these stairs. We have no choice, girl.
Yen wants to see the sky. And I want to see the sky, Yen and you.’

Now it’s our turn, thought Geralt. He was right.
The officer stared at Ciri.
His eyes shone through the opening in his visor, watching everything without missing a detail.
Her paleness. The scar on her cheek. The blood on her sleeve and hands. The white springs in her hair.
Then the Nilfgaardian turned his eyes to the witcher.
‘Vilgefortz?’ he asked with his sonorous voice.
Geralt shook his head in disapproval.
‘Cahir aep Ceallach?’
Again a disapproving shake of his head.
‘A slaughterhouse,’ said the officer, looking at the staircase. ‘A bloody slaughterhouse.
But well, who lives by the sword... At least you spared the hangman some work.
You have travelled a long way, witcher.’
Geralt did not respond. Ciri sniffed loudly and wiped her nose with the back of her hand.
Yennefer scolded her with a look. The Nilfgaardian noticed it and smiled.
‘You have travelled a long way from the other end of the world,’ he continued.
‘For both of them. Something should be done, just for the sake of it. Lord de Rideaux!’
‘At your service, Your Imperial Majesty!’
The witcher wasn't surprised.
‘Find us a discrete chamber, where I can rest and talk undisturbed with Geralt of Rivia.
During that time, please provide all available services and convenience to both ladies.
Obviously under the constant watch of guards.’
‘As you wish, Your Imperial Majesty!’
‘Geralt, follow me, please.’
The witcher stood up.
He looked at Ciri and Yennefer, wanting to calm them and warn them not to try any nonsense.
But it wasn't needed. They were both horribly tired. And resigned.

‘Yes, I know,’ Geralt nodded his head. ‘Thanks for the chat, Duny.
I am grateful for your time, but let’s not wait any longer. I am very tired.
I’ve seen the death of my friends who followed me here from another end of the world.
To save your daughter. They didn't even know her. Except for Cahir, none of them had seen her.
But they went to save her. Because there was something in them that was worthy and noble.
And for what? To find death. I think it's unfair. And if someone needs to know, I don't agree with it.
Because a story in which worthy people die and the rogues live is fucking bullshit.
I have no more strength, Emperor. Call your men.’
‘Witcher...’
‘The secret must die with those who know it. You said so yourself.
You have no other way out. There are no other solutions.
I will escape from every prison... And I will take your Ciri back. It is the price I must pay and you know it.’
‘I know.’
‘You can spare Yennefer’s life. She doesn't know the secret.’
‘She,’ said Emhyr seriously, ‘would pay any price to take my Ciri back. And to avenge your death.’
‘True,’ the witcher nodded his head.
‘I almost forgot how much she loves the girl. You’re right, Duny. We cannot escape our destiny.

‘Do you believe,’ said the Emperor quietly, ‘that Yennefer would accompany you in the bath?’
‘I am pretty sure. But I will have to ask her anyway. She has quite a rebellious nature.’
‘I know.’

...

Yennefer agreed without hesitation.
‘The circle is closed,’ she said, staring at her own wrists. ‘Uroboros is eating its own tail.’

‘I don’t understand,’ Ciri hissed like an angry cat, ‘I don’t see why would I have to go with him!
Where to? What for?’
‘My lovely daughter,’ said Yennefer softly.
‘This is your destiny. Understand, it simply cannot be otherwise.’
‘And you?’
‘For us,’ Yennefer looked at Geralt, ‘our destiny awaits. It simply has to be this way.
Come to me, my daughter. Hold me tight.’
‘They want to kill you, right? I won't let them! After all, we have only just been reunited! This isn't fair!’
‘Who lives by the sword,’ Emhyr var Emreis said hollowly, ‘dies by the sword.
They both fought with me and lost. But they lose with dignity.’

...

Ciri looked at the witcher. Geralt made a dismissive motion with his head. The girl sighed.
She embraced Yennefer and they whispered together for a long time.
Afterwards Ciri walked to Geralt.
‘What a pity,’ she said quietly. ‘It seemed that everything was beginning to improve.’
‘It seemed to be so,’ said the witcher.
They embraced.
‘Be brave.’
‘He won't have me,’ she whispered. ‘Don’t worry. I will escape from him. I know a way...’
‘You must not kill him. Remember, Ciri. You must not.’
‘Don't you worry. I didn’t even think about killing.
You know, Geralt, I’ve had enough of killing. There has been all too much.’
‘Too much. Farewell, witcheress.’
‘Farewell, witcher.’
‘Just don’t cry.’
‘Easier said than done.’

‘Your Imperial Majesty?’
‘I am listening.’
‘Please, as much as possible, don't hurt my daughter. I don't want to die with a notion that she is crying.’

She will never see them again, she suddenly realised with terrifying clarity.
Neither Geralt, nor Yennefer. Never again. That awareness suddenly wiped away her fake mask of courage.
Ciri’s face shrunk and twisted, her eyes filled with tears, and her nose ran.
The girl fought with all her might, but in vain. The wave of tears completely broke her appearance.
The Nilfgaardians in salamander cloaks watched in silence. And in amazement.
Some had seen her on the stairs covered in blood and all of them had seen her talking with the Emperor.
A witcheress with a sword. An invincible witcheress, defying the Emperor himself.
And now they were surprised, seeing a crying and sobbing child.
She was aware of their gazes. Their eyes were burning like fire, prickling her skin.
She struggled, but to no avail. The more she tried to restrain herself, the more she cried.
She slowed and then stopped. The escort also stopped. But only for a moment.
A grouchy officer grabbed her with his iron hands under her armpits.
Ciri, sobbing and swallowing her tears, glanced over her shoulder again.
Then she was carried. She offered no resistance. But she wailed louder, more and more desperate.
Emhyr var Emreis stopped them, this dark -haired man whose face had awakened confusing memories.
The officer let her go after the Emperor's sharp command. Ciri sniffed and wiped her eyes with her sleeve.
Seeing the Emperor approach, she stifled a sob and proudly raised her head.
Although she knew how ridiculous it looked. Emhyr watched her for a long time. Without a word.
Then he approached her and stretched out his hands.
Ciri usually reacted with reflexive withdrawal to such gestures. To her own astonishment, she didn't move back.
She was amazed even more when she found out that his touch wasn't distasteful.
He touched her hair, as if to count the snowy strings. And her cheek, his fingertips running along the old scar.
Then he hugged her, stroking her head and shoulders. Ciri, shaking and crying uncontrollably, let him do it.
‘A strange thing is fate,’ she heard him whisper. ‘Farewell, daughter.’

‘What did he say?’
Ciri’s face twisted slightly.
‘He said: Va fail, luned. In the elder speech: Farewell, girl.’
‘I know,’ Yennefer nodded. ‘What happened then?’
‘Then... Then he let me go, he turned around and walked away. He shouted orders. And they all left.
They passed me, quite indifferently, stomping, pounding and rattling in their armour.
There was an echo in the whole corridor. They mounted their horses and rode away.
I heard neighing and galloping. I will never understand this. Because when you think about it...’
‘Ciri.’
‘What?’
‘Don't think about it.’

Spoiler: Lady of the Lake Chapter Eleven

Andrzej Sapkowski created Yennefer as this rebellious female character, but the more you read about her, the easier it is to sympathize with her and for most people even like (love?) her. Once her motives become clear, you really start looking at her in a different way. Yes she is arrogant, selfish and sometimes even cold. But on the other hand, you get to see the reasoning behind her attitude - horrendous childhood and the heavy burden of infertility which was ruining her. Yen was an unlucky mix of insecurity and fear. She thought she didn't deserve to be loved and always doubted her capability of loving someone adequately. All because of her past - she was damaged and had a low self-esteem - but she tried not to show it.

Yennefer wears Tissaia's mask of a confident woman who cannot get hurt easily, although in reality it's quite the opposite. Inside she was very fragile, which really showed when she was spending time with her loved ones and she could open up without having to worry about anything, they love her the way she is. We get to see this in the game a bit with Geralt, but not with Ciri... We've had hundreds of posts, the relationship between Geralt and Yennefer didn't work because of reasons and then the child of destiny completely changed their lives. Yen found her purpose, the main motivation of her character.

I know it's difficult to picture all the shit they had to suffer, but the damage and closure they find within each other is really important in the portrayal of their characters. The relationship between Yennefer and Ciri was one of the most fundamental ones in the books and definitely the most crucial relationship for Yennefer's character. No Ciri? There goes Yen's purpose. She is supposed to be a mother figure, which was the final destination of her long and difficult journey. She isn't just some dumb romance option. Maintaining the symbology of (in)fertility and motherhood should obviously be the main focus when you are trying to portray her book character in a vidya... The problem is that no RPG has managed to nail this topic so far.
As for more Yennefer and Ciri content, it might happen at some point in the future, although the chances are way too slim.

 

[sv3672]

The new dialogues are apparently exactly as they were in the leak, even typos and bad spelling were not fixed since then.

 

[xxgwxx]

The new dialogues are apparently exactly as they were in the leak, even typos and bad spelling were not fixed since then.

Typos? Were there any typos? I haven't noticed anything

 

[sv3672]

Typos? Were there any typos? I haven't noticed anything

"Got o be exhausting"