Yennefer of Vengerberg (all spoilers) - The Revival

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Well, I can't really argue with your own perception of character faces, so... I guess I'm done here

Personally, I don't see that and I also can't think of a reason why there would be "hate faces", so the logical conclusion to me seems to be that maybe they aren't "hate faces"

Look, I understand that you guys really like the work Sapkowski did with Yen and Ciri and that the games don't really give this a lot of attention. And I get it - it's a well-built relationship. But I think you'd all have a much better experience if you stopped looking for evidence in the game that reinforces this as truth, and instead just enjoy what the game does have to offer - the events in the books should serve as a tool to better understand the deeper character relations, not a guidebook on the list of things that a given character must do to validate a particular line in the books.

That is the design approach CDPR took - they've said as much in the past - so that's also the best way to get the most out of the story, by design.

That is not the design CDPR took! I don't agree with you and there are clear evidence in the game that Geralt is like father for Ciri while Triss called her little sister but why they left Yennefer? It's not the design it's strange behaviour from CDPR. And your decision not to look at this is understandable but it doesn't solve the problem or makes it made up. The problem exist but if you don't want to admit it just shows your attitude toward this problem.
 
... there are clear evidence in the game that Geralt is like father for Ciri while Triss called her little sister but why they left Yennefer? ...

When Yennefer was staring at the portrait of Ciri towards the beginning of the game, commenting to Geralt about how "our little Witcher has grown into a young lady," I took that as pretty clear evidence of a familial bond. Or when she eavesdrops on Ciri's meeting with the Lodge out of parental concern ... or runs up to Ciri at Kaer Morhen and embraces her.

Like @ReptilePZ said, I get where you all are coming from: your favorite fantasy author is, I assume, Sapkowski, you went into the game with certain expectations about the characters and the world, and you walked away disappointed. That's fine. I just feel like the regulars on here would get more enjoyment from CDPR's work if you accepted the games for what they are: free adaptations containing elements of the novels (quoting Sapkowski here). You're lucky that you even have a sprawling open-world RPG like this set within your favorite fantasy universe - fans of many other equally renowned authors cannot say the same - and that the games are introducing the novels to a whole new group of readers.
 
When Yennefer was staring at the portrait of Ciri towards the beginning of the game, commenting to Geralt about how "our little Witcher has grown into a young lady," I took that as pretty clear evidence of a familial bond. Or when she eavesdrops on Ciri's meeting with the Lodge out of parental concern ... or runs up to Ciri at Kaer Morhen and embraces her.

Like @ReptilePZ said, I get where you all are coming from: your favorite fantasy author is, I assume, Sapkowski, you went into the game with certain expectations about the characters and the world, and you walked away disappointed. That's fine. I just feel like the regulars on here would get more enjoyment from CDPR's work if you accepted the games for what they are: free adaptations containing elements of the novels (quoting Sapkowski here). You're lucky that you even have a sprawling open-world RPG like this set within your favorite fantasy universe - fans of many other equally renowned authors cannot say the same - and that the games are introducing the novels to a whole new group of readers.

No, you don't understand or don't want to. No one here is dissapointed by the game or not enjoying it. But you simply decided to close your eyes on some problem in the game because the rest of the game is great. It's OK. Yes game is adaptation of the books but why they use direct quote from books for the Geralt and Triss but decided to remove adopted mother role for Yennefer it's a mystery or at least strange decision. Saying it's ok because it's free adaptation of the books doesn't help in any way. They certainly knew about this fact and it was conscious decision not to call her mother in the game. And people want to know why. And it's make even strange that other characters saved their role in relationship with Ciri. Again this doesn't mean that for us game is bad now or we don't enjoy playing it. We just can't understand logic behind this decision.

And try to ask 100 people who haven't read books who is Yennefer for Ciri and see the results. Bet you would be surprised.
 
When Yennefer was staring at the portrait of Ciri towards the beginning of the game, commenting to Geralt about how "our little Witcher has grown into a young lady," I took that as pretty clear evidence of a familial bond. Or when she eavesdrops on Ciri's meeting with the Lodge out of parental concern ... or runs up to Ciri at Kaer Morhen and embraces her.

Like @ReptilePZ said, I get where you all are coming from: your favorite fantasy author is, I assume, Sapkowski, you went into the game with certain expectations about the characters and the world, and you walked away disappointed. That's fine. I just feel like the regulars on here would get more enjoyment from CDPR's work if you accepted the games for what they are: free adaptations containing elements of the novels (quoting Sapkowski here). You're lucky that you even have a sprawling open-world RPG like this set within your favorite fantasy universe - fans of many other equally renowned authors cannot say the same - and that the games are introducing the novels to a whole new group of readers.

As it was said already in the comment above, we are not disappointed in the game! And in fact some of us, myself included, are part of that "new group of readers" who read the books thanks to the game and are very grateful to the game for that!
Now that I have read the books, Sapkowski is indeed one of my two favorite fantasy authors along with Tolkien (yes, I really really like Sapkowski), and the game is GREAT. And from what I have seen most of the people here will tell you that! And this is one hell of a compliment coming from people who love the books as much as we do! And we talk about how great the game is here as well!
Still there are some things which are not that good and they are worth talking about too!

And yeah I was reading a french forum about The Witcher recently, french players for the most part have not read any of the books and their comments about Yennefer are..... well... Anyway I was reading that forum and someone actually wrote "I love how Triss is like a mother to Ciri" and I was like : WUT? So some people who have not read the books didn't understand at all the relationship between Yen and Ciri, that's a fact! And that shows that CDPR got this wrong somehow.
 
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Again this doesn't mean that for us game is bad now or we don't enjoy playing it. We just can't understand logic behind this decision.

And try to ask 100 people who haven't read books who is Yennefer for Ciri and see the results. Bet you would be surprised.

This! W3 is a great game but is messes with the Sapkowski's canon too much. W1 and W2 were much more CDPR orginal stories useing characters and universe from the books. W3 plot by restoring Ciri, Yenenfer, Wild Hunt, Avallach, and White Frost is pretty much direct continuation and ending of what happened in books not just another story in universe like previous games. I think no one here is saying that W3 is a bad game with wrong story and wrong characters but it's reasonable to say thay they just misused a lot of Sapkowski's figures.

Yen/Ciri relationship is completely different. In books Ciri says to her "I always want to be with you, with you and Geralt". When she has a vision and sees Yen tortured she's like "What they have done to you mommy?". In games however she behaves like Yennefer was just another sorceress who sleeps with Geralt and has some misterious plans towards her
 
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W3 plot by restoring Ciri, Yenenfer, Wild Hunt, Avallach, and White Frost

Not that i particularly want to join the discussion, but I must agree with some of this.

It was said that characters like Yennefer was not in previous games because they were too important and scary to use, which is why she only finally appeared in TW3. Yennefer aswell as Ciri were acknowledged to being very important characters for the universe and still both were quite misused, especially between each other. And this caused some contradicted discussion. Though i must add that Yennefer's character as whole was pretty well done, even so all the obvious cuts from the plot broke it a little bit.
I'd be interested what the actual reasons for all the decisions were when developing these characters for the game. Too risky to use them straight from the books, and just develop them differently for the game? Can't see why, but i guess it could be it.
 
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This! W3 is a great game but is messes with the Sapkowski's canon too much. W1 and W2 were much more CDPR orginal stories useing characters and universe from the books.

And they could reasonably have stuck with that approach, but chose to cater to book fans instead (ignoring much of their own previous story, and the two "new" characters prioritized over everything else in the game), yet they are still getting criticized for not being close enough to the books. :rolleyes:
 
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And they could reasonably have stuck with that approach, but chose to cater to book fans instead (ignoring much of their own previous story, and the two "new" characters prioritized over everything else in the game), yet they are still getting criticized for not being close enough to the books. :rolleyes:

What was ignored from the previous story (apart from Iorveth and Saskia, obviously)?
TW2, the way it was written, sets up (re)introduction of Yennefer, confrontation with the Wild Hunt, Nilfgaardian invasion of the North. Even Ciri's appearance is basically spelled out to anyone with the basic knowledge of the Witcher lore, what else would connect Geralt and Eredin?
So again, what story should TW3 follow knowing the events from TW2?
 
Okay, too many posts for direct quotes, so I'll just make a final general post on the topic, on my part.

First of all, I never claimed that the Yen/Ciri relationship couldn't be done better, my argument is that it is not necessary to do so, because the Yen/Ciri relationship is not the focus of the game's story. That is simple fact, not an assertion, and cannot be denied. Therefore, nobody is ignoring this here or unwilling to acknowledge it, just saying that you don't have a strong argument as a motivation as to why it should have been explored further. The only argument here is personal preference, which is not a valid one, when it comes to design decisions.

One argument that you have tried to push is that the game does not make it clear that Yen is a mother figure to Ciri. Again, a weak argument, there are plenty of examples in the games where this relationship is shown, claiming otherwise is factually incorrect (a few examples off the top of my head - Yen and Geralt talking about Ciri in Vizima, Geralt recalling how Ciri called Yen mother in the dreamer quest, Yen's general attitude towards Ciri and the importance of finding her, Kaer Morhen scene, Avallac'h lab scene etc. etc. - and these are just the obvious indications). This is all the game needs to establish, anything beyond that, understanding the full depth of the Yen/Ciri relationship, is not something that is required of the game to provide, in order for new players to understand the main plot. Knowing these details is a bonus for those who have read the books and have a better understanding of the characters, which enriches the experience, but it is by no means necessary.

For this reason, I am led to believe that this is not useful, constructive feedback, but an attempt to force the developers into adding extra content, because of personal preference on your part. Now, again, you are absolutely 100% free to ask for this, but attempting to obfuscate it as feedback and make it seem like it is owed to you, because the devs failed to present the general outlines of the relationship is not honest. Just keep in mind, the same claim could be made for any other character or story thread in the game - everything could always be done better - everyone has their own preference, so you are in no position to expect this particular story thread to be given extra attention.
 
Yen/Ciri relationship is completely different. In books Ciri says to her "I always want to be with you, with you and Geralt". When she has a vision and sees Yen tortured she's like "What they have done to you mommy?". In games however she behaves like Yennefer was just another sorceress who sleeps with Geralt and has some misterious plans towards her

Yes this relationship has totally been ripped out of context, which so many stated already in the past (and in the previous posts).
It saddens me to witness that allot get shoved aside and not being taken seriously at all on this matter. I truly love TW3 it is a marvelous piece of work which I am still playing to this very day (after the release). But some decisions or added content purely placed things so out of order, which was quite not necessary.

Though i must add that Yennefer's character as whole was pretty well done, even so all the obvious cuts from the plot broke it a little bit

Yes her character was very good displayed in the game, tho it is more the version of her from the last wish. Yennefer had some huge character development over the course of the novels, specially at the end (in fact almost all major characters, Geralt and Ciri for that matter).

yet they are still getting criticized for not being close enough to the books.

Nobody here is asking CDPR to be more close to the novels, only that Ciri *cough* and the relationship between Yennefer could have been done better. There are plenty of arguments been given on this matter so I will not repeat them here again.
 
Okay, too many posts for direct quotes, so I'll just make a final general post on the topic, on my part.

First of all, I never claimed that the Yen/Ciri relationship couldn't be done better, my argument is that it is not necessary to do so, because the Yen/Ciri relationship is not the focus of the game's story. That is simple fact, not an assertion, and cannot be denied. Therefore, nobody is ignoring this here or unwilling to acknowledge it, just saying that you don't have a strong argument as a motivation as to why it should have been explored further. The only argument here is personal preference, which is not a valid one, when it comes to design decisions.

One argument that you have tried to push is that the game does not make it clear that Yen is a mother figure to Ciri. Again, a weak argument, there are plenty of examples in the games where this relationship is shown, claiming otherwise is factually incorrect (a few examples off the top of my head - Yen and Geralt talking about Ciri in Vizima, Geralt recalling how Ciri called Yen mother in the dreamer quest, Yen's general attitude towards Ciri and the importance of finding her, Kaer Morhen scene, Avallac'h lab scene etc. etc. - and these are just the obvious indications). This is all the game needs to establish, anything beyond that, understanding the full depth of the Yen/Ciri relationship, is not something that is required of the game to provide, in order for new players to understand the main plot. Knowing these details is a bonus for those who have read the books and have a better understanding of the characters, which enriches the experience, but it is by no means necessary.

For this reason, I am led to believe that this is not useful, constructive feedback, but an attempt to force the developers into adding extra content, because of personal preference on your part. Now, again, you are absolutely 100% free to ask for this, but attempting to obfuscate it as feedback and make it seem like it is owed to you, because the devs failed to present the general outlines of the relationship is not honest. Just keep in mind, the same claim could be made for any other character or story thread in the game - everything could always be done better - everyone has their own preference, so you are in no position to expect this particular story thread to be given extra attention.

I do get your point here but here's the thing we are not exactly asking for extra content (though in my personal opinion it wouldn't have hurt, but you're right, this is only my personal opinion), we only wish that we could have seen in the game that what Yennefer and Ciri shared was a bit more that what they are showing here. I don't know, Ciri could have called Yen "Mom" at least once, they could have done her facial expressions differently sometimes. It wouldn't have required them to do something MORE, it would have required them to do something just a bit DIFFERENT, no extra work or extra attention towards the Yen/Ciri relationship needed.
I get that they chose not to focus on this relationship and that would have been ok IF the few scenes that they did write were done right. So yeah, there is a conscious choice on their behalf but there is ALSO bad writing which in my opinion is not a choice they made.
 
For this reason, I am led to believe that this is not useful, constructive feedback, but an attempt to force the developers into adding extra content, because of personal preference on your part. Now, again, you are absolutely 100% free to ask for this, but attempting to obfuscate it as feedback and make it seem like it is owed to you, because the devs failed to present the general outlines of the relationship is not honest. Just keep in mind, the same claim could be made for any other character or story thread in the game - everything could always be done better - everyone has their own preference, so you are in no position to expect this particular story thread to be given extra attention.

We haven't start a freaking petition. We don't demand any extra content....I don't really know what are you talking about. Many members here pointed that Ciri practically is nice to everyone except Yennefer and that's just strange to see without any real given reason.

I just generally don't care

Yes nice to know but we do...
 
What was ignored from the previous story (apart from Iorveth and Saskia, obviously)?

Most of the events, decisions, etc. from TW2, as it has been discussed in other threads ? And to justify that with the explanation that they do not matter in TW3 is a kind of circular reasoning, because they were chosen not to matter in the sequel, it was not the only possible way to continue the story.

TW2, the way it was written, sets up (re)introduction of Yennefer, confrontation with the Wild Hunt, Nilfgaardian invasion of the North. Even Ciri's appearance is basically spelled out

It set up the reintroduction of those characters, but not that they will be pushed to the forefront at the expense of everything else. That is a decision that was probably made during the development of the third game, not least considering the things that are known to have been cut. The previous game might have set up a rough direction of the story, but it did not dictate the details, nor things like production priorities or the lack of continuity with the prequels. I really do not see how the criticism from book fans is fair when the game already caters to them so much, they just did not get everything.
 

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Most of the events, decisions, etc. from TW2, as it has been discussed in other threads ? And to justify that with the explanation that they do not matter in TW3 is a kind of circular reasoning, because they were chosen not to matter in the sequel, it was not the only possible way to continue the story.



It set up the reintroduction of those characters, but not that they will be pushed to the forefront at the expense of everything else. That is a decision that was probably made during the development of the third game, not least considering the things that are known to have been cut. The previous game might have set up a rough direction of the story, but it did not dictate the details, nor things like production priorities or the lack of continuity with the prequels. I really do not see how the criticism from book fans is fair when the game already caters to them so much, they just did not get everything.

Yes, I know TW3 ignored many events and decisions from TW2, that's because most of them are tied to TW2 plot, which is almost entirely self-contained and resolved by the end of the game. What TW2 left for its sequel to continue, it continued. You've talked about some story the previous games have build up but the 3rd game ignored. I still don't understand what expectations regarding the main storyline of TW3 you had prior to E3 2014. For me, there was no surprise whatsoever to see Ciri and Yennefer in the Sword of Destiny trailer. It only confirmed what I was 99% sure of.
The criticism by book fans is not about not catering to them enough, it's about characters and relationship being twisted for no reason at all. It didn't affect the plot in the slightest.
 
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