Yennefer of Vengerberg (all spoilers) - The Revival

[Whitey98]

But this, this "I'm gonna barge into that room and tell them that they're all emotionally crippled idiots! This is gonna be good!", this disqualifies you from further conversation. This will not entice anyone to waste any time to try and explain things in kind words to you. So yeah, read up and don't expect any motherly warmth from the audience of this thread.

Excellent way to put it also

Well, that is a load of crap which can be falsified easily enough by evidence from books and games. That has been done thousands of times already earlier in this thread and elsewhere. Also, it's easy to point out examples of selfishness, spitefulness and power-mongering on the side of the NPC you apparently prefer. That also has been done thousands of times already.

I atleast like to think that on YENNEFERS fan thread we can atleast defend her thoroughly here, although i seen the other thread from last year got closed because of posts that went overboard. Even in the patch 1.10, there is still more Yen content/screentime compared to Triss, which is good for me . We get all of Skellige to ourselves with Yen whereas in Novigrad you are with Triss for half of it, if that. We also get all of Kaer Morhen and the Last Wish is a proper quest dedicated solely to Yen/Geralt whereas Triss' side quests are so that she can free the mages. 2nd time around in Novigrad is pretty equal, Yen/Triss get a quest each, then you have the small Yen/Geralt talking about their daughter and then the small family confrontation whereas with Triss you get the fountain, however that was all in that one quest, Yen appears in two so maybe she wins here aswell. Skellige has more Yen once again, the family quest in Avallac'h's lab whereas for Triss it is just her standing around. Then you have her wish for the future and Triss has her i can't wait for Kovir moment. Then during the final battle you have Yen saving Geralt from the naglfar and then the talk about how they need to stop Avallac'h and rescue their daughter again (tho they only say Ciri -_-) then at the end you have Yen telling Geralt to bring Ciri to her and Geralt promises he will. Then they part ways after this, i assume so that Yen can disentangle from the web of politics and Geralt needs to train Ciri to become a witcheress, then he finds himself in Toussaint, completes his duties there, returns to his new home and bam Yen is waiting for him, just like she said she wanted before the hunt, a home with him. My point here is this anyway, Atleast Yen gets more screentime over Triss lol. Although she should get more screentime anyway, she wasn't in Witcher 1/2 and it's Geralts true love so??... Although tbh the Patch only adds 1 extra scene with Triss and Yen already had an equivalent, the nilfgaard tent at the end. Everything else they added for Triss they added for Yen aswell, such as Kaer Morhen talk, and discussing your relationship with yen to... Yen, Ciri and Triss, I suppose Triss fans are pretty angry that Ciri said "Im glad you and yennefer ended up back together" but can you blame her for saying that? Mum and dad? back together? why wouldn't she want it

That's alright, it is okay to have a different opinion, and you're entitled to have your own preferences.

Suppose everyone doesn't HAVE to like her tho i can't understand why lol, her early character in the earlier books, sure you can dislike that a little, but as she is changing drastically during the books and becoming motherly, caring, loving, protective, stuff she didn't even know she was capable of in the 1st book and apart from caring, in the 2nd book. But people have different opinions, i just hate... HATE different opinions based of lies and bullshit. If people know what Triss did to Geralt,Ciri and Yen and know the character that Yen becomes throughout the books and STILL prefers Triss... then they are a lost cause, but there is hardly anyone like this rofl.

 

[Raven-beauty]

@Mrwhitey998
Welcome to the forum!

I just wanted to point out that I agree of course with allot of points you made and stand for. But let's keep it a bit on topic.

If you want to discuss Triss then here is a thread for it: http://forums.cdprojektred.com/thre...ll-Spoilers)-Resurgence?p=2461491#post2461491

 

[Whitey98]

@Mrwhitey998
Welcome to the forum!

I just wanted to point out that I agree of course with allot of points you made and stand for. But let's keep it a bit on topic.

If you want to discuss Triss then here is a thread for it: http://forums.cdprojektred.com/thre...ll-Spoilers)-Resurgence?p=2461491#post2461491

rofl, no i don't want to discuss Triss at all, i really don't like her at all, can't forgive her for what she done in the books and the games. I was just talking about how there is more screentime for Yen and that im happy for. In the end, Yen gets 2 sex scenes and Triss 1 :>.

Thanks for welcoming me, people on my steam friends list really didn't seem interested at all in talking about any of this but then i found here and well im glad i did, fun to read,reply, discuss, comment and communicate with people who are equally as passionate as me.

I am keeping it on Topic, this thread is about Yennefer and im being Pro-Yennefer .

 

[Guest 3847602]

Yes, it's clear that Yennefer have more screentime than Triss (~1000 lines of dialogue to ~700, IIRC), more romance scenes, there is no need to rub these facts in anyone's face nor antagonizing and mocking Triss' fans or non-readers.
It's a game with multiple choices & consequences, after all, no one is commiting any crime if he/she plays it in a different way.

 

[Whitey98]

Yes, it's clear that Yennefer have more screentime than Triss (~1000 lines of dialogue to ~700, IIRC), more romance scenes, there is no need to rub these facts in anyone's face nor antagonizing and mocking Triss' fans or non-readers.
It's a game with multiple choices & consequences, after all, no one is commiting any crime if he/she plays it in a different way.

It wasn't my intention. Usually i like to say things that bother me and then i feel a little better. I'd read into patch 1.10 quite a lot and decided that i wanted to compare the two and see who is more prominent. Then i wrote it down here, and if anyone was interested i suppose they can see it here. I wrote it to satisfy myself basically Although i don't care if Triss fans get angry from it that's their own problem. Should be happy they got two additional games with her -_-

 

[meb9]

Generally could not of said it better myself, i tend to go on long tangents explaining countless things yet i just start talking about Yennefer and then can't stop ahaha

Perfect way to shut him down, effectively 1 sentence and you explain it so well. Well done.

Sorry - I'm not 'shut down' nor am I 'him' - but I agree with Oodrin that taking advantage of amnesia etc isn't nice behaviour either. I'm not a fan of Triss particularly - I have read a lot of this thread but not all. I have only played W3 so know the stories of 1 & 2 by hearsay alone. In W3 I had no preconceptions of Yennefer - I knew nothing about her - so my reactions were purely based on her frequently cold or sarcastic tone. In the game she often treats Geralt as though he were a little boy with a bossy and superior tone - or, as a witness says, like a dog. Vesemir and his other friends remark on this from time to time and they probably know her a lot better than any of us.

So I began to read the books to try to understand Yennefer better. I think Sapkowski has done a great job in creating many complex and intriguing characters, and she is one of the most vividly portrayed. But I tend to like people who have good morals and generosity of spirit rather than those who are dazzling on the surface or happen to be powerful.

In the game, it seems that Yennefer is heavily blaming Geralt for sleeping with Triss - to the point she abuses her power to throw him violently into the lake - can anyone tell me if he actually was aware of what he was doing, or was it entirely down to amnesia? If the latter, how could she possibly blame him? If he was aware, then I can understand her reaction better.

In the books, I have got as far as Yennefer being introduced to Ciri. Ciri is a young teenager who has already been through a lot and is to all intents and purposes lacking a family; Yennefer's treatment of her is really telling. She has the opportunity to be at least reassuring to the girl, who is afraid of her 'dispassionate and malefic' eyes. That's how it is translated, anyway - meaning of course that she shows no empathy in her expression, only evil. But instead of showing any kindness she instead talks over Ciri's head, quizzing the priestess about Ciri's past health instead of asking the girl herself. 'Not badly developed' she remarks. What teenager would like this to be said about them, in front of them but not to them? How someone treats those who are weaker is a gauge of their true worth. Nenneke is a good woman but she clearly doesn't like Yennefer either. That is just one example of many where it really isn't necessary for Yennefer to be unkind, but she doesn't bother to be reassuring to those who badly need it. Geralt at times shows compassion so I am surprised he does not shy away from the apparent lack of it in Yen.

When I remarked about emotionally damaged - I was referring to Geralt, not the people on this thread! - it struck me, whilst wrestling with the question 'what does he see in her?' that he had been abandoned by his mother and was doubtless damaged by that. I have seen in real life men who allow women to nag them and endlessly boss them around and it is often the case they almost enjoy that behaviour due to not knowing what a really good, mutually respectful relationship is like.

At the end of it all, I think the answer to 'what does he see in her' is that love is blind - we see it all the time - once stricken, judgement flies out of the window!

 

[Sardukhar]

Dear Thread Friends and Lovers:

There is no win or shut down victory position here.

This is a debate thread on Yennefer, the fictional character. You may, politely, discuss her origins, her choices in whatever media you "met" her in and your response to those choices. You are free to hold whatever opinion about her you like.

Think she's secretly a demon? That's fine. Think she's actually a man? Also fine. Think she hates Geralt and wants him to suffer? Sure. Pretty sure she is the only truly good person in the fiction? Also fine.

You are not required to do background reading - or playing - to hold this opinion. Other people are not required to share this opinion of yours.

Yennefer is a fictional character. If you become emotionally attached to her, full credit to the writers and, arguably, your empathy. For an imaginary person, but sure.

You are not a fictional character and you are required to stay polite. To be friendly. To have some distance from what you post and -not- start or participate in anything that looks like a "fight" or that might involve you "winning".

These threads are always contentious. We've killed a few and bounced a -lot- of people over time. When posting in here remember:

Be Cool.

Be Friendly.

Be On Topic.

Or, don't post.

 

[zappy3]

In the game, it seems that Yennefer is heavily blaming Geralt for sleeping with Triss - to the point she abuses her power to throw him violently into the lake - can anyone tell me if he actually was aware of what he was doing, or was it entirely down to amnesia? If the latter, how could she possibly blame him? If he was aware, then I can understand her reaction better.

Ok, so first Yen is only human, sometimes she has feelings she cannot control, just like anybody else. She does NOT blame Geralt for the amnesia thing, she blames Triss (which she is entitled to given the situation). Not blaming Geralt does not mean she has to be happy about the fact that he and Triss were involved due to the amnesia. She is not mad at HIM she is angry because of the whole situation, and sad (yes, Yennefer can feel sadness). She doesn't get mad at Geralt in Kaer Morrhen for sleeping with Triss, she gets mad at him for pushing the subject even though she told him she didn't want to talk about it. Seriously, you have to be a jerk to her to have her throw you into the lake...

In the books, I have got as far as Yennefer being introduced to Ciri. Ciri is a young teenager who has already been through a lot and is to all intents and purposes lacking a family; Yennefer's treatment of her is really telling. She has the opportunity to be at least reassuring to the girl, who is afraid of her 'dispassionate and malefic' eyes. That's how it is translated, anyway - meaning of course that she shows no empathy in her expression, only evil. But instead of showing any kindness she instead talks over Ciri's head, quizzing the priestess about Ciri's past health instead of asking the girl herself. 'Not badly developed' she remarks. What teenager would like this to be said about them, in front of them but not to them? How someone treats those who are weaker is a gauge of their true worth. Nenneke is a good woman but she clearly doesn't like Yennefer either. That is just one example of many where it really isn't necessary for Yennefer to be unkind, but she doesn't bother to be reassuring to those who badly need it. Geralt at times shows compassion so I am surprised he does not shy away from the apparent lack of it in Yen.

Man.... Ok so yeah Ciri is afraid of Yen at first, sure Yen doesn't seem friendly the first time they meet. To understand things a bit better here : Yennefer still loves Geralt, she thinks that he doesn't want her anymore. Yennefer desperately wants a child of her own, which she cannot have. And what is happening here? Geralt asks her to take care of HIS adopted daughter, after having tried to ask help from Triss (Yen's best friend and Geralt's former lover). Put yourself in her shoes for two seconds : it's a VERY shitty situation for Yen, once again she is not happy about it at first (and yes once again she does have human feelings), Yet despite of it she does help Geralt (yes that's how much she loves him) but yeah she is not all friendly with Ciri and tries to keep her distances at first, she is just trying to protect herself, that's her typical defense mechanism, nothing more! By the way I also note here that you seem to forget that Ciri was actually reassured at the end of that very scene when Yen suddenly softened and smiled SINCERLY at her (because yes in the end she did notice that she was frightening the girl and she did warm up a bit). Funny how you seem to remember only half the scene...
Regarding Nenneke.... She fights with Yennefer a lot that is true, mostly because she is being protective of both Geralt and Ciri. But I wouldn't say she doesn't like Yennefer, in fact I think she truly respects her.

 

[Sardukhar]

A post was deleted for cause.

Please Read and Follow the Rules, everyone. We're aiming for a calm, friendly, non-prejudicial discussion atmosphere here.

 

[HarelMor]

Ok so yeah Ciri is afraid of Yen at first, sure Yen doesn't seem friendly the first time they meet. To understand things a bit better here : Yennefer still loves Geralt, she thinks that he doesn't want her anymore. Yennefer desperately wants a child of her own, which she cannot have. And what is happening here? Geralt asks her to take care of HIS adopted daughter, after having tried to ask help from Triss (Yen's best friend and Geralt's former lover). Put yourself in her shoes for two seconds : it's a VERY shitty situation for Yen

I totally understand yennefer here,yeneffer doesn't know if geralt still love her and if they have any chance together, he ask her as a second option after triss refused to help him with ciri (she was only his backup plan). Geralt know how much yennefer want a child and i guess that he know that having her as a second choice will hurt her. i guess that she was afraid to open up and show caring because she knew that geralt and ciri might leave her. In my opinion a lot of women in her position will act like this, they will try to protect themselves from void that will be left after the child will go. The fact that she help show a lot about her, what does triss refusal to help say about her?

 

[toudis815]

After so many pages and unnecessary emotions I'll try to keep it short...and simple

frequently cold or sarcastic tone.

isn't it great? Sarcasm is the last weapon that inteligent person still have in the world full of idiots (both witcher world and our). And Geralt is also sarcastic as hell.

how could she possibly blame him?

That's simple - she's a woman, that's what women do - blaming us

Nenneke is a good woman but she clearly doesn't like Yennefer either

Something ends, something begins:
"May the Great Melitele load you with her grace and blessings, loved ones." Nenneke kissed Yennefer and clinked her glass against Geralt's goblet. "But it took you a damn long time. Well, you're wedded now. I'm very happy for you and I hope Ciri will take an example by you and if she finds someone, she won't delay it for too long."

 

[HarelMor]

That's simple - she's a woman, that's what women do - blaming us

Married for 15 years and i got to say that i agree with this statement from the bottom of my heart.
(sorry for being off topic)

 

[meb9]

Man.... Ok so yeah Ciri is afraid of Yen at first, sure Yen doesn't seem friendly the first time they meet. To understand things a bit better here : Yennefer still loves Geralt, she thinks that he doesn't want her anymore. Yennefer desperately wants a child of her own, which she cannot have. And what is happening here? Geralt asks her to take care of HIS adopted daughter, after having tried to ask help from Triss (Yen's best friend and Geralt's former lover). Put yourself in her shoes for two seconds : it's a VERY shitty situation for Yen, once again she is not happy about it at first (and yes once again she does have human feelings), Yet despite of it she does help Geralt (yes that's how much she loves him) but yeah she is not all friendly with Ciri and tries to keep her distances at first, she is just trying to protect herself, that's her typical defense mechanism, nothing more! By the way I also note here that you seem to forget that Ciri was actually reassured at the end of that very scene when Yen suddenly softened and smiled SINCERLY at her (because yes in the end she did notice that she was frightening the girl and she did warm up a bit). Funny how you seem to remember only half the scene...
Regarding Nenneke.... She fights with Yennefer a lot that is true, mostly because she is being protective of both Geralt and Ciri. But I wouldn't say she doesn't like Yennefer, in fact I think she truly respects her.

It isn't 'funny how I only remember half the scene' because that is literally as far as I have got. I think there is NO excuse for a 100+ year old very experienced woman to be unpleasant to a vulnerable teenager, whatever her personal hang-ups or problems. And I have just reached the words 'Nanneke looked at her coldly and, all of a sudden, somehow oddly without respect'. So at this point in the story at least, she does not respect Yennefer. I will continue to read on in the hope I can understand some people's warm feelings to Yennefer, but so far everything has confirmed the way she was portrayed in the game. Incidentally I think the voice actress in the English version is spot-on. A great performance.

---------- Updated at 07:31 PM ----------

...... what does triss refusal to help say about her?

Actually Triss tried her best to help but admitted she wasn't a powerful enough sorceress, and persuaded Geralt to contact Yennefer who had superior powers.

 

[zappy3]

It isn't 'funny how I only remember half the scene' because that is literally as far as I have got. I think there is NO excuse for a 100+ year old very experienced woman to be unpleasant to a vulnerable teenager, whatever her personal hang-ups or problems. And I have just reached the words 'Nanneke looked at her coldly and, all of a sudden, somehow oddly without respect'. So at this point in the story at least, she does not respect Yennefer. I will continue to read on in the hope I can understand some people's warm feelings to Yennefer, but so far everything has confirmed the way she was portrayed in the game. Incidentally I think the voice actress in the English version is spot-on. A great performance.

The fact that ONE TIME she looks at Yen without respect because, that ONE TIME she does think that Yen could get over her feelings and behave differently does not mean that she doesn't respect her in the end. Let's take a closer look at that quote of yours :
"Nenneke looked at her coldly and, all of a sudden, somehow oddly without respect"
I think that is precisely meant to show you that it's something unusual.

 

[xxgwxx]

I think there is NO excuse for a 100+ year old very experienced woman to be unpleasant to a vulnerable teenager, whatever her personal hang-ups or problems

She wasn't harmful towards her, she was simply cold and stern. Cold towards the girl she didn't invite into her life, a girl who was just yet another reminder of Geralt and the fact that he dared to contact her only when he needed her help. Also Ciri is not particularly nice either. She's a bratty child who often gets on people's nerves. You'll see that later.

And I have just reached the words 'Nanneke looked at her coldly and, all of a sudden, somehow oddly without respect'. So at this point in the story at least, she does not respect Yennefer.

That quote actually confirms that Nenneke usually respects Yennefer. "All of sudden, somehow oddly" suggests that it doesn't happen often. Actually she's one of those people who wishes Geralt & Yennefer would stop playing their silly games, get over it and just be together.


As to answer your intitial question : "Why does some people love Yennefer?" - well most people here are familiar with all the books, not just the first 3. So we've got the broad picture and know the whole story. Secondly, even if you think that a certain character does some bad shit or is evil (which is not the case with Yennefer, but still), you can still love them.

 

[Gilthoniel]

I just would like to post this part from an interview with Mr. Sapkowski:

The short story The Last Wish (Ostatnie życzenie) is a long metaphor about being very careful what you wish for. The way to reach our desires at all costs can be full of dangerous Djinns, meaning unscrupulousness. Here we meet for the first time Yennefer of Vengerberg, who can also be a very dangerous sorceress. Love is born between the two but don’t you think it’s really too dangerous for Geralt to keep craving for a woman we find out to be not that reliable?

Ha! That’s what makes the story interesting, don’t you think? Being a huge fantasy reader, sometimes I find boring or disgusting the stories where the hero can have sex with any woman, because those women can’t wait to have sex with him. In those stories women are the hero’s prize, the warrior’s reward, and as such they have nothing to say, they can only moan and faint in the hero’s strong arms.
I am convinced that only with contact with the other sex - wether it is cause of attraction, care, confrontation or opposition - a hero can fully grow. When I created Yennefer’s character I wanted Geralt to fully grow, but then I decided to make things complicated. I created a female character who refuses to be a fantasy stereotype. To please the reader.

 

[meb9]

She wasn't harmful towards her, she was simply cold and stern. Cold towards the girl she didn't invite into her life, a girl who was just yet another reminder of Geralt and the fact that he dared to contact her only when he needed her help. Also Ciri is not particularly nice either. She's a bratty child who often gets on people's nerves. You'll see that later.

Most kids are bratty around puberty - and Ciri had been through a lot. That's excusable. But when you are over 100 you still make it unpleasant for such a youngster, just because of your own hangups? I don't think that is excusable at all. If you do, we will have to agree to differ

 

[xxgwxx]

Most kids are bratty around puberty - and Ciri had been through a lot. That's excusable. But when you are over 100 you still make it unpleasant for such a youngster, just because of your own hangups? I don't think that is excusable at all. If you do, we will have to agree to differ

I'm not saying this is excusable. But it's understandable. There's a difference between the two. Yennefer doesn't trust/like Ciri initially and that's mutual. Personally I've always found their first encounter very interesting because Yennefer might be cold towards her, but Ciri doesn't shy away. She fights back and shows her claws already which catches Yennefer's attention. In many aspects they are very alike.

Anyway, you'll be surprised by how quickly they bond and form a loving relationship.

 

[zappy3]

Most kids are bratty around puberty - and Ciri had been through a lot. That's excusable. But when you are over 100 you still make it unpleasant for such a youngster, just because of your own hangups? I don't think that is excusable at all. If you do, we will have to agree to differ

Hmmm don't take it the wrong way, I'm just curious but it seems to me that you are reading the books while being already biased towards Yennefer and that you try to find every little thing to prove that you're right. For example that quote you misused, choosing to believe that it meant the exact opposite of what Sapkowski actually intended it to mean. I mean one of the things that is awesome about Sapkowski's books is that every single character in there is very complex with both qualities and flaws. Which means that if you look for it you could actually prove that all the characters in the books are very bad people if you choose to only see their bad side. I just hope that you will continue reading and be open minded about that character, I seriously, sincerely do hope so, because you will miss a lot of interesting stuff if you just choose to discard half the information because it's not what you thought it would be.

 

[toudis815]

Most kids are bratty around puberty - and Ciri had been through a lot. That's excusable. But when you are over 100 you still make it unpleasant for such a youngster, just because of your own hangups? I don't think that is excusable at all. If you do, we will have to agree to differ

OK, let's say that Yennefer was to harsh on Ciri back then. But does this one thing really makes her damned forever? Sapkowski, in general, builds his characters on flaws, that's why Geralt is one of the most lost, and helpless lead hero in fantasy book I ever read about (especially in Baptism of Fire and Tower of Swallow), that's why you will see in next books a lot of Ciri's dark side ,and that's why protagonist of Hussite Trilogy is just a one big walking flaw. Because of flaws, characters are more profound and they are closer to the reader (at least in my case - I'm get bored easily with perfect heroes,like Frodo or Captain America, or whatever noble guy guy saving the world you'll pick). No one is saying that Yennefer doesn't have flaws, or didn't do any wrong - but hey, it's ok - in crucial moments she refused to give up, and stood up for what she belived in.