Yennefer of Vengerberg (all spoilers)

[Kallelinski]

Good question. But we actually have very little information about the relationship between Yen and the rest of the witchers.

If they don't trust her, they should atleast trust Geralt. He knows that she is trustworthy, especially if it comes to Ciri, it's a shame he barely shows that...

Why do you all think, that Yen mistrusts the other (in Kaer Morhen)? If you ask hzer just that, she will answer something like " In the contrary, I fear you don't trust me", meaning, she thinks the witchers will not trust her that the Trial of Grasses is the right thing to do.

Not telling them what exactly she wanted to do wasn't helping either, but as you said, she probably feared that they won't allow it, despite it being the only solution for breaking the curse.

‘I was wondering if you would like to, well...hmmm...as lust would have it...’
‘No, Earl. The past is the past and was not written into the register. Good night.’

She denied his offer just like Geralt did with Triss in Blood of Elves, just much more direct than him. Not really seeing competition there, in general since she met Geralt, another man is just another man and not Geralt. It's the same for Geralt, even though he slept with other women, it's not Yennefer, he even says that out loud.

It's also interesting that he says "lust". Maybe her main priority in relationships was once lust, but that changed with meeting Geralt, severely. The issue with Istredd already showed that Geralt changed her life for better or worse, but in particular her love life. If at all she lusts after Geralt and scenes like that even shows that.

 

[yogsothoth6]

"Excuse my boldness and my frankness, Yennefer. It's written on your faces, I don't even need to read your thoughts. You were made for each other, you and the witcher. [...]" - Villentretenmerth

Even a Golden Dragon acknowledge that.

 

[Slowdive]

Really don't get how responding to discussion about Yen, the last wish and the stage at which Geralt felt love for her is in any way forcing square wheel(whatever that means) in the thread.
The source material is very much open for an element interpretation, your view isn't fact.

to forge square wheel = to invent the unconceivable arguments (already explained that).

The source material is pretty univocal. Even in the games. And there are not something like conjecturing (he could, she could, etc.)
There are facts. All of these facts already were showned in this thread but I guess I need to repeat it. Meh, well, hope dear moderators won't tear me apart with a banhammer.

1) How Geralt fell in lone

Why Geralt made that Wish?
Cause of fear for Rinda? Nope. Cause he wanted to use Yen in his own plans? Nope. Cause he had just sympathy to Yennefer? Again nope. Cause he completely fell in love with her? Absolutely. He realised whom she was before sorceress (poor hunkback girl) and didn't give a f about it. He realised how rude and mean Yennefer is (on that moment) and didn't give a f about it. He realised that he needs to smell her perfume, to follow her, to be with her. A minute passion? No, it's possible only because love was born. (book facts)

2) Love in The Witcher's Universe

If look carefully we can find that in the books and the games Love is something parallel and uncontrollable for Magic. Love even can break it, break the powerful magical curses. Remember Nivellen from the books, remember Graham and Annabelle from the last game. True Love literally can everything in The Witcher. And when love is so strong and uncontrollable you think that someone can fake it?

3) Witcher II Flashbacks

This point is about possibilty of Yennefer and Geralt happiness. What we have? Geralt and Yennefer after Ciri'd left them had a really peacful and cosy life at Malus Island (Isle Of Avallach). And only Wild Hunt violated their peace and did separate them. Fact.

4) Wish in itself. (TWIII)

Before the release of "Wild Hunt" we knew that possibilty of spell could be real (Not because Geralt didnt love, because we didnt know how real Yen's feeling is)
And "The Last Wish Quest". Hurrah! No we'll break the spell and get free! Aand baaang!
But what's happened? "Geralt, nothing's changed". Yen loved him with a real love too. Weird to argue that fact.
And if Geralt fell in love with Yen by his own and she still loves him...Does it mean that love live? Love lives.

I know it's hard when you already fall in love with a character and suddenly arrives someone another. But that's a time when we don't have a choice in standart game notion. We have choices for ourselves. I can choose for myself. You can choose for yourself. But Geralt chose what he wants many years ago. And there are no facts to say that it's false.


I've left no tons of facts from the books about Yen or from the games about Triss. I even didn't mention Triss at all. There are only the facts about how real that love. Nothing more.

 

[Willowhugger]

Yennefer is secretive about it because the Witchers are VIOLENTLY PROTECTIVE of their secrets due to the fact that people can and have tried to steal them in the past (including as recently in the Witcher 1) with Sorcerers having wanted to do the same to them in the past (even Triss was tempted). The fact that every Witchers considers the Trial of Grasses and Mutations one of the WORST EXPERIENCES of their life doubles it down.

However, Yennefer's secrecy is still grossly inappropriate.

If we're to assume it's not bad writing, Yennefer has been impacted by her seven years of imprisonment very negatively.

---------- Updated at 06:33 PM ----------

I've left no tons of facts from the books about Yen or from the games about Triss. I even didn't mention Triss at all. There are only the facts about how real that love. Nothing more.

I agree.

If Geralt chooses differently, it's because he's CHANGED.

Not because he didn't love Yennefer.

 

[wichat]

Admitting the hiposesis in which Geralt does not feel real love for Yen, but Triss herself is totally in love with him and she knows he could love her for true ... how can live with the fact that her two best friends are under a spell that has destroyed them 20 years of their lives AND DO NOTHING ABOUT IT?

Why do Triss not fight for her true love and tries to break the spell as Yen makes?

 

[Willowhugger]

Admitting the hiposesis in which Geralt does not feel real love for Yen, but Triss herself is totally in love with him and she knows he could love her for true ... how can live with the fact that her two best friends are under a spell that has destroyed them 20 years of their lives AND DO NOTHING ABOUT IT?

Why not fight Triss for his true love and tries to break the spell and makes Yen?

The whole idea it's the result of a Djinn's magic is horrifying on an onion level.

The more you peel it back, the more horrible it gets.

So let's all just pretend it's not even an option.

It's gross, dumb, and insulting to fans of both romances.

To Yennefer fans: Obviously it makes Geralt a victim of a magical assault this entire time.

To Triss fans: It means the ONLY way Geralt could ever choose her over Yennefer is he was mind-controlled the entire time because Yennefer is THAT unassailable.

To Geralt fans: Both.

Ugh.

What a terrible idea.

 

[Grapejamz]

Cause he completely fell in love with her? Absolutely.

I don't think this is how I interpret it though. I don't think he made the last wish because he was in love with her at that point. He certainly made it to save her, and it was a moment of quick wit that he knows that if he makes a wish that ties her destiny to his then the Djinn couldn't take revenge on her. I mean he even left her quietly later on because he just didn't feel it. But because of their destiny being intertwined he actually falls in love with her later on with the addition of Ciri really playing a big role in mending their relationship.

 

[Sephira]

But because of their destiny being intertwined he actually falls in love with her later on with the addition of Ciri really playing a big role in mending their relationship.

Destiny doesn't mean falling in love, I mean their relationship is not made of roses and flowers, and we saw it. They actually fell in love. See the book "Time of Contempt".
Destiny is more prominent with Geralt and Ciri, that's true. And that Ciri is what colidates their relationship, that's true too.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

Triss? Triss has gone on to become much-much less interested in the Lodge and more focused on doing good in the world. She regrets choosing the Lodge over Geralt and Yennefer and would do anything to take back that choice (which she does in AOK).

Triss' biggest "crime" in both Geralt's and Yen's eyes is not that she chose the Lodge over them but that she put Ciri's life willingly in danger and subjected her to desperation, to torture, to abuse , to fear, to pure evilness (even before the lodge business due to her taking sides curing the events on Thanedd). We shouldn't forget that Yen and Geralt don't care way less about their own life than about Ciri's. In Yennefer's case Triss' attempt to lure Geralt away from her truly enrages her, just on top of that.

There is this important scene in the epilogue of The Lady of the Lake:

“We’re here,” said Yennefer. “Rivia. What a curious and entangled destiny.”
Ciri was excited and Kelpie kept dancing and shuffling on the edge of the road. Triss Merigold sighed unnoticed. Rather, she believed it had been unnoticed.
“Please,” Yennefer looked at her. “What strange sounds float from your beauteous breast, Triss. Ciri, go out and see what lies ahead.”
Triss averted her face, determined not to give Yennefer any excuse. She did not expect it to work. For a long time she had been sensing Yennefer’s anger and aggression growing stronger as they approached Rivia.
“You, Triss,” Yennefer mischievously insisted, “do not blush, do not sigh, do not drool or wiggle around in your saddle. Or is it that you think because I agreed to your request that I want to have you with us? That I was interested in seeing you spend a meeting with an old love? Ciri, I asked you to go on ahead. The two of us need to talk!”
“It is not a discussion, it is a lecture.” Ciri dared to argue, but under the threatening glare from violet eyes, she immediately recoiled, clucked and galloped off on Kelpie on the road ahead.
“You’re not going to meet a loved one, Triss,” Yennefer continued. “I am not so noble or stupid enough to give you the opportunity, or him the temptation. But just for today I could not deny myself the sweet satisfaction. He will know what role you played as a member of the Lodge. He will thank you for that with his famous look. And I’ll be looking at your quivering lips and trembling hands, I will listen to your lame apologies and excuses. And you know what, Triss? I will faint with delight.”
“I knew,” Triss grunted. “That you would not forget, that you would take your revenge. I agreed to this, because I was actually at fault. But one thing I must tell you, Yennefer. Do not count too much on fainting. He knows how to forgive.”
“He knows what was done to him, of course,” Yennefer narrowed her eyes. “But he will never forgive you for what was done to Ciri. And me.”
“It is possible,” Triss swallowed. “He may not forgive. Especially if you insist. But he won’t fly into a rage. He won’t lower himself like that.”
Yennefer flicked her horse with her whip in anger. The animal whinnied and leapt and the sorceress swayed in her saddle.
“Enough talk,” she snapped. “More humility, you smug viper! He is my man, mine and only mine! Do you understand? You have to stop talking about him, to stop thinking about him, you have to stop admiring his noble character… As of right now, right now! Oh I want to grab you by your matted red hair…”
“Try it!” Screamed Triss. “Just try it, you vindictive bitch and I’ll scratch out your eyes! I…”

Andrzej Sapkowski, The Lady of the Lake

When Geralt and Yennefer meet again, they are...different people. Geralt has been with Triss for a year and as much as Geralt and Yennefer would like to love each other, they've never been exactly steady (they've never been together for long stretches of time even on Avalon). Geralt has had the taste of the "steady romance" with Triss.

I'd say at this point that book Yennefer would act pretty differently. She would NEVER forgive Triss that she secuced a weak Geralt during his memory loss for a second time. As seen above she could hardly get along with Triss sharing one night with Geralt. How should she ever be able to forgive her that she basically abused Geralt's weakness and subjected her to a life in prison in Nilfgaard? I mean, Triss must knew exactly that a Geralt without memory lost wouldn't lose one second to go on a crusade to save Yennefer. So by letting Geralt in the dark Triss indirectly also affected Yen. How is Yen supposed to just forgive that, especially given her extremely jealous and tempered character. There is no way Triss and Yen would get along in Witcher 3. CDPR already cleverly seperated those two women (one in Novigrad and one on Skellige with one just leaving before Geralt meets the other). But the obvious conflict between Yen and Triss and this "open wound" in the network or relationships is never properly resolved or even remotely tackled in the game later on. When Geralt has a relationships with Yen (again) and he searches allies for the battle of Kaer Morhen Triss just magically returns to the castle with Yen stating that she asked her to come. This is probably the most unlikely person who would have called Triss for help. Yen's not only angry and hurt by how Triss acted she also has no reason to trust her anymore. She has no reason why she should trust Triss not trying to get Geralt back (again) and she has no reason to trust her that she finally wants to sacrifice herself for Ciri. Triss never proved before that she is ready to do that. Her actions in Novigrad proved again that the "greater good" is still more important to her than just saving Ciri and do whatever it takes to do so. And there is no real conflict between Yen and Triss like in the scene from the Lady of the Lake I described above. However Geralt decides (Triss or Yen) there should always be open conflict between them. There is imo no way that there wouldn't be any. In Yen's eyes Triss is "guilty" on many levels, even though they were used to be friends. With Triss betraying Yen for a second time there is no way that this could just go on with a snarky comment by Yen. That doesn't fit her character and the backstory at all. Triss and Yen going along pretty much without any conflict is deeply lore-breaking (also game lore, not only book lore!) and immersion-breaking. It renders their previous relationship and previous actions that affect each other more or less irrelevant.


Edit: By the way, this is in no way meant as an "anti Triss" post. Glady all people in the Witcher world (at least the important ones) have their good and bad sides. Choosing Triss over Yen is perfectly viable imo because love doesn't give a shit about rationality or "fit" (at least not the romantic version of love). What I want is consistency of the characters and relationships which includes both the games and the books. Especially if central topics, central relationships and central actions of characters aren't treated in the "right" (logical) way which is pretty much the case for the Triss-Yen relationship in TW3.

 

[Krull32]

I don't think this is how I interpret it though. I don't think he made the last wish because he was in love with her at that point. He certainly made it to save her, and it was a moment of quick wit that he knows that if he makes a wish that ties her destiny to his then the Djinn couldn't take revenge on her. I mean he even left her quietly later on because he just didn't feel it. But because of their destiny being intertwined he actually falls in love with her later on with the addition of Ciri really playing a big role in mending their relationship.

Joke aside but don't think so. It was an act of love.

 

[xxgwxx]

I mean he even left her quietly later on because he just didn't feel it.

He left her because he's Geralt of Rivia, that's how he rolls/rolled - he's terrible in relationships, he got scared and left- like a coward. Not because he didn't 'feel it'. He certainly felt it- and that was a problem (for him). A very new problem he didn't have before he met Yennefer.

 

[Krull32]

Sry doublepost.

 

[Willowhugger]

Destiny doesn't mean falling in love, I mean their relationship is not made of roses and flowers, and we saw it. They actually fell in love. See the book "Time of Contempt".
Destiny is more prominent with Geralt and Ciri, that's true. And that Ciri is what colidates their relationship, that's true too.

Amusingly, I had my own theory about Geralt's Wish.G

Geralt DIDN'T wish for Yennefer and he to be together but to HAVE A CHILD.

Which he knew was IMPOSSIBLE.

Which, of course, resulted in Ciri finding her way back to him repeatedly.

I.e. Destiny doesn't exist but he MADE his own.

 

[Innamoramento]

If Geralt chooses differently, it's because he's CHANGED.

Not because he didn't love Yennefer.

Wait wait wait! It was not the first time Geralt broke up with Yen. In their 20+ years together they was apart for years, Geralt even thought that Yen is a traitor after Thanned events. And nothing happened with his feels about her. Love did not disappeared when they both changed, hated each other or went through other problems. Geralt was with other women - Triss, Fringillia, Litta Neyd, but always thought of Yen.
So I do not see how change (not the first one) could affect his love to Yen. It was his love, not hers, and his wish, his devotion to this woman, not hers. I do not see, how normal human being can wish to be with someone, and then throw her away because of reasons.

 

[Sephira]

Amusingly, I had my own theory about Geralt's Wish.G

Geralt DIDN'T wish for Yennefer and he to be together but to HAVE A CHILD.

Which he knew was IMPOSSIBLE.

Which, of course, resulted in Ciri finding her way back to him repeatedly.

I.e. Destiny doesn't exist but he MADE his own.

Uh-uh the child theory was in mind not so long time ago. I don't take it as 100% reliable now. Anyway if I recall correctly Geralt didn't know she was struggling for this, so actually this wish would not have made sense imho.

But it's a good wish though.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

If they don't trust her,

That's very true. Geralt should actually defend Yen much more. He should support her in the search for Ciri instead of constantly suspecting that she might do something "vile".

Put that on the "make Yen looking vile" list...

 

[xxgwxx]

Uh-uh the child theory was in mind not so long time ago. I don't take it as 100% reliable now. Anyway if I recall correctly Geralt didn't know she was struggling for this, so actually this wish would not have made sense imho.

But it's a good wish though.

This theory is not really believable. Why? Because such a wish wouldn't save Yennefer's life. And that was a point of that wish.

 

[Zyvik]

Triss? Triss has gone on to become much-much less interested in the Lodge and more focused on doing good in the world. She regrets choosing the Lodge over Geralt and Yennefer and would do anything to take back that choice (which she does in AOK).

It would've been cool if we actually saw this regret in the game.But Triss never talks about it.All her bad desicions in the books are completely ignored in the games.

 

[Sephira]

Geralt even thought that Yen is a traitor after Thanned events. And nothing happened with his feels about her.

Imho Geralt didn't give a damn about Yen when he thought she was a traitor, and so he even started a relationship with Fringilla. Later he regretted it, as soon as he discovered he was horribly wrong.

 

[wichat]

I always thought that under a spell of love you never see the defoult of the other persone... i mean, you love her/his because the spell makes you see Her/his as the perfect people for your life. And, I'm still asking why Sapkowski make this couple such stupid along 20 years.... And why now Yen wants to knows the truth.. I'm still thinking this Djini scene is to force for CDPR for leaving a free highway for Triss' romance.