Yennefer of Vengerberg (all spoilers)

[keldrath]

Did you even read other posts in this thread or you're just repeating same things again and again through various threads?

No one trying to 'enlighten' other team, the only thing that's really disturbing - flagrant disregarding of the lore (expressed via mediocre one-liners) in order to reassure players in their choice.

He might be referring to some of my posts. I know some of them could give that impression.I have said before that I don't think the romances should be on equal footing and there's no reason to believe they should. Choosing Triss over Yen should be a big deal, and that should be reflected in the game. Yennefer was more than a very important person to him for a very long time. Someone he went to hell and back for, and "died" with. His true love. To throw that away because of some experiences while he has amnesia, being manipulated by another person. Let's not forget Ciri either, when you go with Triss her parents basically divorced. There should be conflict, there should be some guilt to show the gravity of what you did if you go that route. I'm not saying it should be all bad, but there should be more to it. Make it actually interesting. Something I would actually want to experience in a playthrough. Maybe they overcome that and new love triumphs in the end for a happy ending. That's fine. But there is nothing now to really say there's any difference choosing one or the other, and the leaked dialogue only reinforces that. It's just, do you prefer red hair, or black hair? I would actually prefer the romances to be different and interesting enough that I would want to try both in different playthroughs. Currently, I would never romance Triss, there's not enough there and it's not interesting enough for me to devote a playthrough to it, considering just how long a playthrough actually is.

They say they want choice and consequence in their games, but there is no consequence here, only choice, and both are portrayed to be the same give or take. Perhaps even more in favor of red hair, since Triss is where players are first led to.

I've said things like this in the past and like I said, cant help but think he got that impression probably from something I've said in the TT. But my opinions are my own and I represent no one other than myself. I stand by them as well.

 

[Kallelinski]

Got the impression that someone made this profile just to trolll...

Not the first one and most likely not the last time, and as the past has shown it's pointless to talk with trolls. Even if I tried to be friendly, all i earned was laughter, so I just ignore it now, it's better this way (you can even block the user in his profile, if you don't even want to see its posts).


--

Something much more interesting, I actually updated the pdfs now, but I am too tired now to add them together and make the bookmarks, so the full update will be tomorrow, but I already updated the first post with new stuff, so there is that.

I thinkthis thread here should be our open letter already, if this thread can't get attention then i don't think anything can and all hope is lost.

I can't give that up here, what's left, if I give up my last hope with this thread?

They will discover that the spell of the Djinn is forgotten in the books. That Geralt and Yennefer are not at all concerned about this. In fact, nor even Triss has it in mind when she seduces with spells to the her bestfriend's love.The maximum meaning I can give to the existence of the spell is to make Yennefer's and Geralt's lives not stop to cross each other again and again, until they both realize that they have fallen in love each other madly, that only their fears, traumas, and pride, behind which both themselves hide, that they hurt them and both return to separated, that both are unable to demonstrate their feelings, recognize what they both feel for each other, until finally the only and true desire of both becomes reality: being parents. And then Ciri comes, she is the key.

and yet CDPR makes the wish responsible for everything and let their own "magic thing", the amnesia out of play.

---------- Updated at 03:37 AM ----------

What I'm seeing regarding the leaks is that its split people into 2 camps:

1) If CDPR is going to add to the game, there should be no half measures, the content should match a certain standard of quality, otherwise it doesn't belong in the game.

It's a shame that this needs to be said, this should be the minimum standard and I always thought CDPR sees it the same way.

2) I want more Witcher 3 content no matter what it is, because post-launch support for the game is better than no support.

Support and fulfilling everyone's wishes are two different things.

Let's just be a bit crazy, imagine enough people utter their wish to kill Triss for what she has done to my Geralt. Just because many people want that, it doesn't mean it should be implemented. Why? Because...

It just wouldn't make any sense to do that, for none of the characters to act like that.

So before CDPR just do whatever fans demand, they should ask themselves, if it is compliant with everything else, but as many already mentioned the whole game doesn't seem to be that compliant with the rest of the franchise, so there is that problem too....

 

[Scholdarr.452]

Core problem of everything fan-fictionary...

That's also the reason why the game couldn't ever become completely "fixed". This discussion is the best proof for that. Even we "big fans" can't agree on one definite way how Yen should act in various situations. The problem is that we all have a specific Yen on our mind, in the way we interpreted and fleshed her out while reading the books. It's impossible for CDPR to get to that point if not by pure luck and condicidence for one of us.

I think we should step back from these wishes to improve characters in TW3. We only present a singular point of view in each case. And every possible change CDPR could make to the material could actually even worsen the situation for some of us. It's impossible to satisfy us all. So maybe it's better to not change anything at all here...

There are more "systemic/mechanical" issues with the game that could more easily be fixed, without the danger to actually make things worse (like the lacking choice in the last third of the game).

I already told you a few weeks back @Kallelinski. And it's exactly what happened... :blink:

 

[AtlasMouse]

Wait what? I might be jumping off the deep end (I'll have a proper look through this thread soon) but are you kidding me? I hope this leak isnt true? Or at least I REALLY hope Im misreading it. Geralt loved Triss before his amnesia? LMFAO. At what point did he fall inlove with Triss exactly? When he dragged her in and out of the bush 93 times so she could take a dump? When she tried to suckle on his mouth infront of Ciri because she thought him being a nice guy and not letting her shit herself meant that he wanted to sleep with her? When he told Triss he loves Yen "that much". Or was it when he was going to cut his wrists in the bathtub and die with Yennefer? What about when he woke up next to Yen after being killed, looked at her and thought he loved her so much it hurt him. Was it when he wanted to let death take him when he thought Yen died at the battle of Sodden. When he found out Triss and the lodge were trying to take Ciri from him. Help me Im having trouble understanding? Has to be when he found out she creeped on him when he lost his memory and left out important facts about his life. Bioware fanfiction bollocks if this is true. Each to there own, choose Triss or not, Yennefer might not be an easy character to love, but Geralt DID love her, deeply and no one else. This shits on all fans of Yen and the books. I adore CDPR and The Witcher but if what Ive seen is true Im disappointed ..its a cop out, not the level of writing or thought I have come to expect from this team. Not that I want the game to lean more in favor of Triss or Yen but thats what it looks like they are doing anyway. Psssh. Sorry my first post on Yen thread is ranting and I could be ranting without reason but needed that off my chest. I dont hate Triss character but she gets off way too easy anyway without completely stealing Yennefers fucking HISTORY with Geralt.

 

[Ljesnjanin]

There should be conflict, there should be some guilt to show the gravity of what you did if you go that route. I'm not saying it should be all bad, but there should be more to it. Make it actually interesting. Something I would actually want to experience in a playthrough. Maybe they overcome that and new love triumphs in the end for a happy ending. That's fine. But there is nothing now to really say there's any difference choosing one or the other, and the leaked dialogue only reinforces that. It's just, do you prefer red hair, or black hair? I would actually prefer the romances to be different and interesting enough that I would want to try both in different playthroughs. Currently, I would never romance Triss, there's not enough there and it's not interesting enough for me to devote a playthrough to it, considering just how long a playthrough actually is.

Same here...This new lines are not going to motivate me for another playthrough, to be honest...Yenn or Triss - it doesn't matter...

Imho, they don't fix or improve anything...If leak is legit, that is...

 

[Gennad86]

Imho, they don't fix or improve anything...If leak is legit, that is...

It does fix an inconsistency in Triss romance which took place before. You may argue about the way it fixes, argue about this quote about before, during and after

Spoiler

and I may even support you to some extent

but it certainly fixes what was missing.
Sorry for writing this in Yen thread, maybe not the best place for it.

 

[RichEdmonds]

He might be referring to some of my posts. I know some of them could give that impression.I have said before that I don't think the romances should be on equal footing and there's no reason to believe they should. Choosing Triss over Yen should be a big deal, and that should be reflected in the game. Yennefer was more than a very important person to him for a very long time. Someone he went to hell and back for, and "died" with. His true love. To throw that away because of some experiences while he has amnesia, being manipulated by another person. Let's not forget Ciri either, when you go with Triss her parents basically divorced. There should be conflict, there should be some guilt to show the gravity of what you did if you go that route. I'm not saying it should be all bad, but there should be more to it. Make it actually interesting. Something I would actually want to experience in a playthrough. Maybe they overcome that and new love triumphs in the end for a happy ending. That's fine. But there is nothing now to really say there's any difference choosing one or the other, and the leaked dialogue only reinforces that. It's just, do you prefer red hair, or black hair? I would actually prefer the romances to be different and interesting enough that I would want to try both in different playthroughs. Currently, I would never romance Triss, there's not enough there and it's not interesting enough for me to devote a playthrough to it, considering just how long a playthrough actually is.

They say they want choice and consequence in their games, but there is no consequence here, only choice, and both are portrayed to be the same give or take. Perhaps even more in favor of red hair, since Triss is where players are first led to.

I've said things like this in the past and like I said, cant help but think he got that impression probably from something I've said in the TT. But my opinions are my own and I represent no one other than myself. I stand by them as well.

Couldn't agree more. That would actually give me the incentive to play Triss. At the moment, you've a choice: the same, or more of the same? Yennefer is an obvious choice for my personal view because of the books and history between herself and Geralt.

Though if I were to choose Triss (and I'd wonder if the Triss camp would feel the same), I would want to explore the ramifications and subsequent issues choosing her would bring, not only between Yen and Geralt (the main canon relationship), but also with regards to other characters. That's not to put Triss as a character in a bad light, I actually like the sorceress, but there has to be a different vibe throughout depending on your choice. Otherwise it's not a meaningful choice, but a cosmetic alteration.

Red. Or black? Sod that. I want a choice between a long, hurtful, intense and powerful love with Yen, or a forced, obsessive, somewhat jealous-fuelled, manipulative relationship with Triss. That would make for exciting choices. Based on what the player personally wants Garelt to side with.

 

[Ljesnjanin]

It does fix an inconsistency in Triss romance which took place before. You may argue about the way it fixes, argue about this quote about before, during and after

As I said, this is not about Yenn/Triss, or "before, during, after"...Few lines will not improve my experience, no matter which slut I choose

 

[LionOfVenice]

forced, obsessive, somewhat jealous-fuelled, manipulative relationship with Triss

Forced only if you are a book die hard, the rest of the world doesn't find it forced

 

[swordsandroses]

I would ike to say that I didn't just snapped because of this, it was just the last straw that broke the camel's back (that sounds so dumb in english, "der letzte Tropfen, der das Fass zum Überlaufen bringt" = the last rain drop, which overflowed the barrel).


If this update is the result of our effort here, I don't know, if I should just keep my mouth shut about all this or try to put all the different thoughts in a text.

Aww shit man, did not mean to single you out, sorry if that is what my post caused. I guess I better explain myself before alienating from all of you good people here.

The reason for my political approach to this Triss update is multiple, all with our Yen in mind. Please hear me out.

1. Witcher 3 is already polluted with the lore breakdown, simply by having Triss as a romance option. Simple as that. It is the equivalent of Geralt adopting Johnny and forgetting all about Ciri. There is nothing we can do about this. Bioware type of romance brings more people, more money and more fame to CDPR.
I don't like it, but I accept that is exists and deal with it.

2. CDPR already publicly announced they will add more Triss content, due to high demand from the fans. This is another fact we can do nothing but accept. Simple as that. Whether the leaked lines are even real, or just some early alpha version they are testing, or the final product we will see implemented is irrelevant. All it does is adds more lore breakdown to the existing lore breakdown of Witcher 3.
Is it ridiculously lore breaking, to the point of mind boggling? Yes. Can we do something about it? Nothing, except keeping our cool.

3. Well, where the hell do I find inspiration for keeping my cool? Two words. MORAL. LEVERAGE.
Think about it. CDPR gave in to the demands and is now working on adding more content for a lore breaking part of the game. Part of the game that I will never see, unless I chose Triss.
What we are suggesting in this thread for the Yen update is astronomically more relevant, more important and more in line with the books than what they are doing with Triss. It's not about silly romance, but about the importance of family, motherhood and both Geralt, Yen and Ciri being the foundation of Sapkowski's books, in both literal and symbolic narrative sense.

Do you not see where I'm going with this?
How do you think it would make CDPR look like, if they added more content for Triss to enhance the Bioware romance, and did NOTHING for the Yen-Ciri and Geralt-Yen-Ciri relationship we're looking for? That would basically translate into CDPR being bigger fans of Bioware romance than Sapkowski books.

I refuse to believe that is the message CDPR wants to send. I believe they can only do a few things at the time, and that our time is yet to come. We still haven't had their official opinion on our suggestions, neither positive nor negative. So until the day comes CDPR themselves come here and tell us they're selling to EA to make romance flicks, I'm keeping my cool.

I already told you a few weeks back @Kallelinski. And it's exactly what happened... :blink:

Umm, it's apples and oranges, in terms of Triss and proposed Yen update.
What we want with Yen is directly tied to the books. I don't remember anyone in this thread said their fan fiction must be included in the update. They all served to further enhance our point of view. At least that's how I see it.

If we look at Yen and ignore the family/Ciri side of her, they did a pretty good job, by following the book canon. Again, I can only speak for myself, but that is really all I want in terms of the Yen update. Add more book canon of her character, in terms of her part of the family with Geralt and Ciri.
Don't matter how they do it, they can obviously do a good job if they want to.

 

[daveyido]

As I said, this is not about Yenn/Triss, or "before, during, after"...Few lines will not improve my experience, no matter which slut I choose

Yup, there are far bigger issues with this game that get ignored because people only care about their waifus. It drives me mad honestly.

 

[Zyvik]

Wow.i've missed a lot of stuff.Regarding those supposed additions,I think some people are overreacting.I mean the fact that Geralt can say to Yen "The magic is gone for me" is already a big lore rape.Him saying that he loved Triss even before the amnesia is not worse than that.As for Ciri's dialogue about Yen,it's horrible of course,but it doesn't really damage Yen's character,it damages Ciri's(who's beyond saving at this point).

 

[wright1978]

It does fix an inconsistency in Triss romance which took place before. You may argue about the way it fixes, argue about this quote about before, during and after

Spoiler

and I may even support you to some extent

but it certainly fixes what was missing.
Sorry for writing this in Yen thread, maybe not the best place for it.

If its true, Yeah certainly has a go at fixing and improves reactivity to both choices imo.
I'll certainly be motivated to start a completely fresh run upon release, hopefully coinciding with first expansion.

 

[wichat]

Umm, it's apples and oranges, in terms of Triss and proposed Yen update.
What we want with Yen is directly tied to the books. I don't remember anyone in this thread said their fan fiction must be included in the update. They all served to further enhance our point of view.

Perhaps because Triss' character needs more non-canon-book-fanfi for having more credibility as the Triss' which CDPR create for games? Becasue the Triss' -game is "out-canon books" and the Yen-game is "in-canon books"? Speaking of characters in TW3 game. I mean, maybe our claims (from one and other sides) are based in the fact that Triss is ALREADY a fanfiction creation and Yen is a DIRECT transfer form the books?

In any case, talking about those dialogues lines, they only confirm that Triss is the CDPR female canon witcher. The mock the Spakowski, books and fans of both them and the games bringing a main character directly from books and making appears as a BAD decision in Geralt options. A big mistake. A waste of 20 years of his life.

Undeserved portrait for Geralt of Rivia, CDPR's hero. CDPR could make a respectfull OFF book canon without bashing memoeries of his heroe. No matter if the player will not find it if doesn't play taht path. Because, as a GAMER I want to play all path without my main character have two different paht playing an hypocrit role. If Geralt is in love with Triss I'd really like it was becasue she is able to make Geralt fall in love with her without bashins Yennefer and her portrait and her past, and vice-versa.

NO ONE of both women deserve to be unrespected in the way some of these lines of possible new dialogues do. IF the argumente is taht GEralt was suffering while is was in love with Yen, how leave this idea Triss place? How it fits with her and all the time she was suffering loving Geralt and his acts and attitude toward her all those years?

De la sarten al fuego,y del fuego a las brasas.

 

[Gennad86]

CDPR already publicly announced they will add more Triss content, due to high demand from the fans.

This is incorrect. See this post http://forums.cdprojektred.com/thre...of-our-romance-s-choice?p=1815147#post1815147
Everything that ensues from this statement is not correct either.

 

[swordsandroses]

This is incorrect. See this post http://forums.cdprojektred.com/thre...of-our-romance-s-choice?p=1815147#post1815147
Everything that ensues from this statement is not correct either.

Saying so doesn't make it so. The fact is, were it not for the fan outcry, the update would never come to be. Let's be honest for a moment.

Edit: I'm not saying there is no inconsistency with Triss and that it shouldn't be fixed. Just that it got noticed before many other inconsistencies with the help of Triss thread popularity.

 

[Gennad86]

The fact is, were it not for the fan outcry, the update would never come to be.

That's probably true. Fans alerted them that something's wrong. They checked it and realised that it really was wrong, so they decided to correct it. It was not just a demand for more content, it was about choice that brought almost no consequences.
I know, someone will mention Shani and TW2. Well, I fully agree. On the other hand, you should understand that giving Shani place in the plot of TW2 after it already was done was muc more difficult than adding some dialogues in TW3. Which is, after all, probably the last game about Geralt.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

You know, I get the feeling the reason why we all talk that much about romances is that the choice which woman we romance is pretty much the only meaningful and hard decision for Geralt that really creates an emotional attachment for some people (and probably for Geralt himself, in a figurative way).

I guess we wouldn't talk that much about Yennefer (and Triss) if the game offered any other meaningful and hard choices for Geralt that are important for him on a personal level.

I wish there would have been the possibility that some of Geralt's closed ones or loved ones could die, maybe even Yen. But CDPR apparently didn't have the balls for that. Instead of making Witcher 3 the best possible RPG, they literally turned it into a waifu simulator with some attached stories and it shows in this thread and in others. If that was the concept of the game CDPR did a good job. But I fear that this wasn't the original intention for this game and that us discussing these topics that much is just an indication that they seriously fucked up the C&C component beyond the romance stuff...

If you had to choose, whom would you try to safe: Yen or Ciri? Yen or Dandelion? Yen or Triss? Just think about the possibilities (and it's just one basic example) and the various consequences. But instead of something like that we got a pretty much linear waifu simulator with some rather small decisions in sidequests and at the beginning of the main quest but nothing really important for Geralt or the player. And so we're here to discuss Yennefer, because there is nothing else to discuss (well, beyond the fucked up story and lore in general)...

:blink:

 

[swordsandroses]

That's probably true. Fans alerted them that something's wrong. They checked it and realised that it really was wrong, so they decided to correct it. It was not just a demand for more content, it was about choice that brought almost no consequences.
I know, someone will mention Shani and TW2. Well, I fully agree. On the other hand, you should understand that giving Shani place in the plot of TW2 after it already was done was muc more difficult than adding some dialogues in TW3. Which is, after all, probably the last game about Geralt.

I'm glad we understood each other. But there is no need to go back to Witcher 1 and 2 to look for serious inconsistencies.

You can literally scatter the Witcher 3 script all over a barn, behead a chicken and where it finally falls down, there will be a major inconsistency. Ciri, Yen's family spot, The Wild Hunt, Eredin, The White Frost, Ann Elle, Avallac'h... take your pick.

 

[keldrath]

You know, I get the feeling the reason why we all talk that much about romances is that the choice which woman we romance is pretty much the only meaningful and hard decision for Geralt that really creates an emotional attachment for some people (and probably for Geralt himself, in a figurative way).

I guess we wouldn't talk that much about Yennefer (and Triss) if the game offered any other meaningful and hard choices for Geralt that are important for him on a personal level.

I wish there would have been the possibility that some of Geralt's closed ones or loved ones could die, maybe even Yen. But CDPR apparently didn't have the balls for that. Instead of making Witcher 3 the best possible RPG, they literally turned it into a waifu simulator with some attached stories and it shows in this thread and in others. If that was the concept of the game CDPR did a good job. But I fear that this wasn't the original intention for this game and that us discussing these topics that much is just an indication that they seriously fucked up the C&C component beyond the romance stuff...

If you had to choose, whom would you try to safe: Yen or Ciri? Yen or Dandelion? Yen or Triss? Just think about the possibilities (and it's just one basic example) and the various consequences. But instead of something like that we got a pretty much linear waifu simulator with some rather small decisions in sidequests and at the beginning of the main quest but nothing really important for Geralt or the player. And so we're here to discuss Yennefer, because there is nothing else to discuss (well, beyond the fucked up story and lore in general)...

:blink:

Maybe, but then another part of it could just be that there's not much contention in other areas, they aren't so controversial and so don't get talked about as much. I doubt you are going to split the community on a discussion of who should rule Skellige for instance.