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Yennefers role in Cintra heirs (books)

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Antiks07

Rookie
#1
Aug 21, 2015
Yennefers role in Cintra heirs (books)

I read the books and am a little confused as to what Yennefer knows in the game and what was said in the books. In the book Yennefer feels guilty for messing with the Cintra line. It's mentions incest and that she would give potions or cast spells to make ppl infertile when needed or the opposite when needed. Can someone clarify this for me if they know? Did she have an active role in this and if so was it cuz she was hired to do so or she actually had her own goal in it to produce the elder blood gene. There's no mention of it really in the game and the whole gene thing is confusing me cuz I thought it was supposed to be ciris child who rules the world and stops the white frost. So I am connfused about what yennefer actually did.
 
ooodrin

ooodrin

Forum veteran
#2
Aug 21, 2015
I think Yennefer is way too young to be involved in that business. It's never explicitly stated in the books, but I think she's uncomfortable when Francesca talks about gene manipulation because it's about Ciri
 
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zappakrk

Rookie
#3
Aug 21, 2015
She took part in some things you have mentioned before Ciri was born( I remember it from Triss memories description during the Lodge's meeting) , but after years she became second mother to her and she had no plans for use the elder blood gene.

There is one menton in game - in Avallach's laboratory before Lara's family tree. Geralt says, that human sorcerers didn't only observe Lara's descendants . Ciri asks Yen if she were involved in manipulating her blood. Yen says no, but she looks a little confused.
 
Last edited: Aug 21, 2015
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Antiks07

Rookie
#4
Aug 21, 2015
Right cuz I don't think she really knows if she was responsible in maniuplating or not. I was wondering what her actual intentions were in the books. Like it said ppl hired sorceresses your birth control type stuff. So was she acting in this capacity or did she have some kind of intention at cultivating the elder gene.
 
T

TreesAreCanon

Rookie
#5
Aug 21, 2015
Firstly - I do not even know for sure if Yennefer took part in any blood experiments at all (I only have bold assumptions)
Secondly - even if she took part in royal blood experiments, she could never be a part of the elder blood experiments

She could be involved in the royal blood manipulation (Cintra's heirs too), this was a common thing for sorcerers to do.
I'm too tired to search for all the quotes. If anybody found a book passage which can directly confirm it, please post it.
I'm just going to assume that she was a part of the royal blood manipulation, most of the sorceress from Aretuza were.

Reading Chapter 6 from Baptism of Fire should clear any misconceptions. Based on the timeline given by Francesca,
Yennefer was hardly even a qualified sorceress by the time elder blood experiments already failed and were stopped.
Yennefer's reaction to Francesca's speech also confirms it. All we have is a bold assumption made by Triss Merigold,
who simply misunderstood the situation... She thought that Yennefer and Francesca were allies who possibly worked
on this together in the past, not knowing that Francesca decompressed Yennefer and her pressence on that meeting
was rather forced, only because of Ciri. She misinterpreted her anxiety for anger and shame about the experiments.

'But I will go back to the tests that Goidemar ordered us to be carried out...’
‘Us?’ Yennefer asked while raising her head. ‘Who precisely was that?’
‘Tissaia de Vries, Augusta Wagner, Leticia Charonneau and Hen Gedymdeith,’ said Francesca calmly.
‘Additionally, I joined this group. I was a young sorceress, but a pure blood elf.
And my father... my biological father who disowned me... He was a Sage.
I knew what the Elder Blood gene was.’

Yennefer was just worried about Ciri, not ashamed or angry about taking part in any elder blood experiments.

‘Yes. This is Pavetta, the daughter of Calanthe. And Pavetta’s daughter, Cirilla.
The only one at this time who is heiress to the Elder Blood, the Lara gene carrier.’

‘The only one?’ Sile de Tansarville asked sharply. ‘You are very sure of yourself, Enid.’

‘What do you mean?’

Sile rose suddenly, extended her fingers covered with rings in the direction of the fruit platter and levitated
the rest of the fruit, destroying and transforming Francesca’s whole scheme into a multi-coloured mess.

‘This is what I mean,’ she said coldly, pointed to the chaos of the fruit.
‘For these are the possible genetic combinations. And we know only what we see here. That is, nothing.
Your mistake has been avenged, Francesca, by producing an avalanche of mistakes. The gene appeared
by chance, after a hundred years, during which events may have occurred, of which we have no knowledge.
Events kept secret, hidden, covered up. Children of premarital, extramarital, secret adoption, even swapped.
Incest. Crossbreeding, the blood of forgotten ancestors which then revives in later generations.
To conclude: a hundred years ago you had the gene in your hand and it escaped you.
Mistake, Enid, mistake, mistake! Too much spontaneity, too many accidents.
Too little control, too little interference with chance.’

‘We were not,’ Enid an Gleanna, pursed her lips, ‘dealing with rabbits, which can be locked in a cage
and their parks chosen for them.’


Fringilla, following the gaze of Triss Merigold, saw Yennefer’s hands suddenly clench the carved arms of her chair.

...

This is what now unites Yennefer and Francesca, Triss thought feverishly, still avoiding eye contact.
The calculation. Because, what they did had something to do with parks and breeding rabbits.
Yes, their plans for Ciri and Kovir’s king, although seemingly unlikely, are completely real.
They have already done this.
They place who they want on the thrones, they create links and dynasties
as they wished, as it is more convenient for them.
The used charms, potions and aphrodisiacs.
The kings and queens enter into foreign marriages, often morganatic,
against any plan, intentions and treaties.
And then those who want children and should not are administered
secret measures to prevent pregnancy.
Those who did not want to have children, but it was necessary to do so
are instead of the promised cure
given placebos, water with licorice. Hence, all these incredible connections.
Calanthe, Pavetta... Ciri.
Yennefer was involved in it. And now regrets it. And she is right. Heck, if Geralt finds out about it...


A timeline made by @OptoNick



Conclusion:

Yennefer could take a part in royal blood manipulation, which might have indirectly affected Pavetta and Ciri. Speculation.
She had nothing to do with elder blood experiments.
 
Last edited: Aug 21, 2015
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vivaxardas2015

Rookie
#6
Aug 21, 2015
Antiks07 said:
Right cuz I don't think she really knows if she was responsible in maniuplating or not. I was wondering what her actual intentions were in the books. Like it said ppl hired sorceresses your birth control type stuff. So was she acting in this capacity or did she have some kind of intention at cultivating the elder gene.
Click to expand...
The sorceresses had an intention. They kept genealogies of practically all good mates in every generation, and arranged matches for a proper gene to show up, or to be transmitted into the next generation. It was an on-going eugenic experiment for them, and they messed with every family with proper genes. Yen was part of it, as any influential sorceress educated in Aretuza.
 
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Antiks07

Rookie
#7
Aug 21, 2015
Thank you. This is the exact section I was talking about. So from what you are saying you think that Triss is making and assumption here because as a sorceress Yen would mess around with birth control and such for royal families but didn't necessarily do so in relation to Ciri's birthline.
And Yen gets anxious cuz she possibly could have and feels like crap realizing what she was actually doing?

I read a lot and idk if they it's cuz it isn't originally written in english but there were a lot of parts in these books I had to re-read a few times to understand what was actually happening or what was being described which I usually don't need to do.
 
Last edited: Aug 21, 2015
Sephira

Sephira

Forum veteran
#8
Aug 21, 2015
First of all, Yen has nothing to do with Elder Blood genetic experiments.

Assumption: Yen was with other sorceresses when cintran royal blood line was manipulated, common thing the sorcerers did for political reasons.

I think Triss assumption was right: imho Yen did partecipate in it and she is worried for what she did and what she could have caused, as she aknowledges what result it had. First, she understands Ciri is the fruit of that royal bloodline manipulation. Second, thanks to Francesca explanation, by chance cintran royal line control collided with Elder Blood, as mages realized it the moment they saw Ciri at Thanedd, and they didn't see that coming because they interrupted Elder Blood experiments long ago. Yen gets to know these genetic experiments again thanks to Francesca, and she is worried about it. Exactly like she was when bringing Ciri to the Council before Thanedd golpe as she thought it was a good thing to do because of Tissaia advice.
 
Last edited: Aug 21, 2015
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Avaricious

Rookie
#9
Aug 22, 2015
Wasaabii28 said:
All we have is a bold assumption made by Triss Merigold
Click to expand...
Vilgefortz also accuses Yennefer of being involved in the elder blood experiments while she is imprisoned in Stygga Castle.
 
C

Charcharo

Rookie
#10
Aug 22, 2015
Avaricious said:
Vilgefortz also accuses Yennefer of being involved in the elder blood experiments while she is imprisoned in Stygga Castle.
Click to expand...
Poor little Vilgy-Fortzy says many things...
Most of them are either ravings of a drunkman or simply BS.
 
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OptoNick

Rookie
#11
Aug 22, 2015
Avaricious said:
Vilgefortz also accuses Yennefer of being involved in the elder blood experiments while she is imprisoned in Stygga Castle.
Click to expand...
In same dialogue he also said that Ciri and Geralt are dead, just to troll Yen :) Though, it seems like he's talking about something that actually took place in the past. So, considering timeline and other facts which was mentioned here, it looks like either as a: a) reproach to mage society in general, pathetic effort to make Yen ashamed about group responsibility; or b) reproach to Yen for some deeds from her past, which are unlikely has linkage to Ciri (see timeline and Francesca's speech)

Either way, he just tried to wound her with a very inelegant approach
 
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TreesAreCanon

Rookie
#12
Aug 22, 2015
Avaricious said:
Vilgefortz also accuses Yennefer of being involved in the elder blood experiments while she is imprisoned in Stygga Castle.
Click to expand...
Heavy spoilers from Lady of the Lake Chapter Two

‘It is with great regret I must inform you,’ said Vilgefortz, his fingers caressing the stem of his cup,
‘that Ciri, your ward, has departed from this world.
You can only blame yourself, Yennefer. And your foolish stubbornness.’

...

‘You, Yennefer,’ he drawled, ‘probably think I am lying to deceive you. Why would I?
The report of the girl’s death has crushed me like you, if not more.
After all I had big plans for her, which would decide about my future. Ciri is dead and now my plans have collapsed.’

...

‘On the contrary,’ continued the sorcerer, ‘to you Ciri was only a silly sentiment,
consisting of equal parts of the penalty of your infertility and your guilt. Yes, yes, Yennefer, a sentiment of guilt!
After you had actively participated in genetic experiments, by which Ciri came into the world.
Incidentally the experiment failed because the experimenters lacked knowledge.’


...

‘It is too late,’ he said through gritted teeth, ‘you have to know, Yennefer, I have enough knowledge.
And if I had this girl, I would use this knowledge. In fact, you have nothing to
regret,
even though you are dry and barren as a desert, I wanted to strengthen the weak
maternal instinct
and give you not only a daughter, but even a grandchild. Or at least an
ersatz grandchild.

...

‘I am sorry to spoil your good humour, my dear,’ said the wizard coldly.
‘Because I have
the sad news that the witcher, Geralt of Rivia is also dead.
Yes, Yes, the same witcher Geralt,
with whom, as with Ciri, you associated your surrogate feelings,
foolish, embarrassing and
nauseating to the stomach. Know Yennefer that our dear friend, the witcher,
said goodbye to
the world in a truly fiery spectacular. On this occasion, you should not have any remorse.
For
the witcher’s death, you are not guilty to even the smallest degree.
All the credit belongs to
me. Taste the candied pears, they are really delicious.’

...

‘And where is Mister Rience?’ Yennefer asked, emphasizing the words.
‘Mister Rience,
who has promised to do so much to me.
And where is Mister Schirru, who never failed to hit
or kick me?
And why does my guard, who until recently, were violent and vulgar brutes,
started to behave in timid reverence?
No, do not answer, Vilgefortz. I think I know. What you
told me is a lie.
You have lost Ciri and Geralt escaped, while organizing a bloodbath for your
minions. Now what?
Your plans have collapsed, turned to dust and you have
recognized that your dreams of power have faded like smoke.
And the sorceresses and
Dijkstra draw closer and closer.
It is not without reason and not out of pity that you have
stopped torturing me.
And Emperor Emhyr tightens his network, and this is turning out to be
very, very bad.
Ess a tearth, me tiarn? A’pleine a cales, ellea?’


...

‘My name is Bonhart,’ he said. ‘It would be nice that you remember this name, witch. That you engrave it in your memory.’

‘Go fuck yourself, pig.’

‘I am a bounty hunter,’ he growled.

‘Three months ago, in September, I caught your little
bastard in Ebbing, the famous Ciri, which you were talking about.’

Yennefer listen carefully. September. Ebbing. Caught her. But she isn’t here. Maybe he is lying?

‘The grey-haired witcher was trained at Kaer Morhen.
I told her to fight in an arena, to
kill people while people in the audience screamed.
Slowly, slowly I turned her more into a
beast. I taught her this role with whip, fist and boot.
She learned for a long time. But then she
escaped me, the green-eyed snake.’

Yennefer imperceptibly sighed with relief.

‘She escaped into another world. But we will meet again, I am sure of it.
You know, witch,
the only thing I regret is that your lover, the witcher Geralt was burned at the stake.
I wanted
to give him a taste of my blade, damn mutant.’

Yennefer snorted.

‘Listen, Bonhart, or whatever your name is. Do not make me laugh. The witcher was not brought up to heel.
You cannot compare with him. You can only hunt puppies. Only small
dogs.’

‘Look here, witch.’

With a sharp movement he parted his shirt and pulled out a chain with three silver medallions hanging from it.
One had the shape of a cat’s head, the other an eagle or a griffin.
The third she did not see exactly, but she thought it was a wolf.

‘Such trinkets,’ she said, feigning indifference, ‘you can buy at any fair.’

‘These are not from a fair.’

‘Whatever you say.’

‘It was once so,’ hissed Bonhart, ‘that good people were afraid of the witchers more than the monsters.
Monsters, after all, sat in the woods and caves, however, witchers had the nerve
to walk the streets,
enter taverns, and hover near shrines, temples, schools and playgrounds.
Decent people were offended,
so they started looking for someone who could bring the
insolent witchers to order. They found someone.
Not easily or soon, not even close. But they
found someone. You see, I have killed three.
Not another mutant appeared in the area to upset
the honest citizens.
And if he appeared, I do to him what I did to the previous ones.’


‘Really,’ Yennefer said, ‘with a crossbow from around a corner? Or by poisoning?’

Bonhart put the medallions back under his shirt and took a step towards her.

‘You insult me, witch.’

‘That is what I wanted.’

‘Oh, really? I will show you, witch, that I can compete with your Witcher lover in any field and even be better than him.’

The guards standing at the door jumped upon hearing the crash, bang, howling and whimpering from the cell.
And if the guards had ever happened in their life to hear a panther
caught in trap,
they would have sworn that the cell held a panther.
Then the guards heard from the cell a terrible roar,
like a wounded lion, which they had
also never heard on watch and only ever seen on their coat of arms.
They looked at each
other. Shook their heads and entered.

Yennefer sat in the corner of the room, among the remains of the stool.
Her hair was dishevelled, her dress and shirt torn from top to bottom, her breasts rose sharply with her heavy breathing.
Blood flowed from her nose, a bruise was quickly growing
on her face, and there were scratches on her right arm.

Bonhart was sitting in the other corner of the room, among bits of stool, holding his head in both hands.
He too was bleeding from his nose, the blood colouring his moustaches a deep
crimson.
His face was marked by bloody grooves. Yennefer’s barely healed fingers were a
terrible weapon,
but the dimeritium bracelets had some wonderfully sharp edges.

In Bonhart’s cheek, neatly along the cheek bone, embedded deeply was a fork,
which
Yennefer had silently stolen at dinner.

‘Only small dogs,’ the sorceress gasped, trying to cover her breast with the remains of her dress.
‘And stay away from the big dogs, you are too weak for them, bastard.’


She could not forgive herself for not getting him where she was aiming - his eye.
But the
target was moving, and besides, no one is perfect.

Bonhart grunted, stood up, grabbed the fork and roared and reeled with pain. He swore horribly.

Meanwhile, two more guards had entered the room.

‘Hey, you!’ Bonhart roared, wiping blood from his face.
‘Come here! Hold this whore on
the floor, stretch open her legs and hold her!’

The guards looked at each other, then at the ceiling.

‘You better leave, sir,’ said one. ‘There will be no holding or stretching here. It is not our job.’

‘Besides,’ added the second in a whisper, ‘we do not want to end up like Rience and Schirru.’

Like @OptoNick said, Vilgefortz was simply just talking smack to humiliate Yennefer.
His statement had as much truth in it as his other claims, Ciri being dead for example.

Reading the chapter I can see the pattern easily. Doesn't it remind you of something?

- Vilgefortz tells her Ciri is dead
- Yennefer pays all her attention to a Nilfgaardian who sneezed loudly
- Vilgefortz tries to convince her
- Yennefer says "good" and just keeps eating
- Vilgefortz accuses Yennefer of taking part in the genetic experiments
- Yennefer salutes him with her cup
- Vilgefortz tells Yennefer what would he do with Ciri if he catched her
- Yennefer snorts dismissively (inside she is boiling with rage though)
- Vilgefortz tells her Gervant is dead
- Yennefer finally loses it and reacts
- Vilgefortz says "dość tej zabawy" which means "we had our fun" or "no more games"
 
Last edited: Aug 22, 2015
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Antiks07

Rookie
#13
Aug 22, 2015
It seems ppl disagree whether or not she actually did genetic experiments in the Cintra line. It's seems that she may actually have been apart of it. Not the whole time obviously because of her age. But I'm left still wondering what her exact intentions were in taking part in it. Was she hired? Trying to get specific ppl on the throne? Or actually trying to get the specific gene nailed down. It's too vague to get a clear picture.
 
C

carlos2033

Rookie
#14
Aug 22, 2015
Antiks07 said:
It seems ppl disagree whether or not she actually did genetic experiments in the Cintra line. It's seems that she may actually have been apart of it. Not the whole time obviously because of her age. But I'm left still wondering what her exact intentions were in taking part in it. Was she hired? Trying to get specific ppl on the throne? Or actually trying to get the specific gene nailed down. It's too vague to get a clear picture.
Click to expand...
Well don`t remember exact quotes from books about Yennefer, but sorceresses was always trying to manipulate royal mariages, by putting their specific people on throne not specific gene, they wanted people they can manipulate on throne.
Manipulating royal mariages and royal gene manipulation are two different things, and i don`t think Yennefer was part of any royal blood gene experiment.

And i don`t see that any sorceress not just Yennefer, had any part in genetic experiments in Cintra line, or royal mariages in Cintra, Cintra never had mage advisors and is small country compared to other nothern kingdoms and is not of interest to mages, sorceresses wanted to be advisors or manipulate mariage but on bigger kingdoms.
 
Last edited: Aug 22, 2015
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Gennad86

Rookie
#15
Aug 22, 2015
Wasaabii28 said:
Like @OptoNick said, Vilgefortz was simply just talking smack to humiliate Yennefer.
His statement had as much truth in it as his other claims, Ciri being dead for example.
Click to expand...
Telling that Ciri is dead makes sense, because Yen can't know if she is really dead or not. Telling her false facts about herself is pointless because she just knows it isn't true, it wouldn't affect her at all.
 
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TreesAreCanon

Rookie
#16
Aug 22, 2015
Gennad86 said:
Telling that Ciri is dead makes sense, because Yen can't know if she is really dead or not. Telling her false facts about herself is pointless because she just knows it isn't true, it wouldn't affect her at all.
Click to expand...
It affects her mate. Also Vilgefortz knows that she most likely took part in royal hierarchy manipulation which might have
affected Ciri indirectly. What he is aiming to achieve with his claim is making her doubt herself or feel insecure, ashamed.
 
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Gennad86

Rookie
#17
Aug 22, 2015
Wasaabii28 said:
It affects her mate
Click to expand...
If she knows this statement
Wasaabii28 said:
After you had actively participated in genetic experiments, by which Ciri came into the world
Click to expand...
is false, it won't affect her at all. It's just illogical. Though it's rather common for villains to be illogical, but we see Vilgefortz as quite a logical person (most of the time of course).
 
T

TreesAreCanon

Rookie
#18
Aug 22, 2015
Oh come on pal...

So basically what Vilgefortz said has to be true because he wouldn't say anything that wouldn't affect her or is illogical?

Classic.:smile:
 
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Sephira

Sephira

Forum veteran
#19
Aug 22, 2015
I don't think a former member of genetic experiments would ask question about those experiments and also about who the members were. Plus, mages' age in this case is not indifferent.

As Wasaabii quoted:

'But I will go back to the tests that Goidemar ordered us to be carried out...’
‘Us?’ Yennefer asked while raising her head. ‘Who precisely was that?’
‘Tissaia de Vries, Augusta Wagner, Leticia Charonneau and Hen Gedymdeith,’ said Francesca calmly.
‘Additionally, I joined this group. I was a young sorceress, but a pure blood elf.
And my father... my biological father who disowned me... He was a Sage.
I knew what the Elder Blood gene was.’

Baptism of Fire, chapter six, is the key.

Our dear Vilgefortz also knew before everyone that cintran royal bloodline manipulation collided with Elder Blood eventually. He is pulling Yennefer strings to make her lose her temper. Like Bonhart.
 
Last edited: Aug 22, 2015
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Gennad86

Rookie
#20
Aug 22, 2015
Wasaabii28 said:
So basically what Vilgefortz said has to be true because he wouldn't say anything that wouldn't affect her or is illogical?
Click to expand...
It doesn't have to be true, it's just one of the arguments. There are arguments both for and against this theory and we are just discussing them, right?

Sephira said:
I don't think a former member of genetic experiments would ask question about those experiments and also about who the members were.
Click to expand...
Sephira said:
Plus, mages' age in this case is not indifferent.
Click to expand...
Yep, that's the point. She could join these experiments much later and she didn't know who started them.
Also, she got really annoyed here:
‘The first since Riannon.’ Sile de Tansarville spoke suddenly. ‘You made a mistake, Francesca. There are two genes. One, the right one, was latent and you overlooked it in Fiona, deceived by the clear and strong gene in Amavet. But the one in Amavet was not the gene, but the activator. Lady Assire is right. The activator is transferred through the male line and in the case of Adalia, manifested so little that you didn’t see it. Adalia was the first daughter of the Rogue, the following children almost certainly had no trace of the activator. The latent gene in Fiona was probably in her male descendants up to the third generation. But it has not disappeared and I know why.’

‘Bloody hell.’ Yennefer hissed through her teeth.
and here
Fringilla, following the gaze of Triss Merigold, saw Yennefer’s hands clench suddenly the carved arms of her chair.

Still I agree that there are strong arguments against this theory, especially her age.
 
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